Fallacy Detective?

[LibraryLover]

I had this in my hands recently, ready to buy, but I put it back. Should I reconsider?

 

[MamaSheep]

:bigear:

[HollyDay]

We did Fallacy Detective and Thinking Toolbox as part of a co-op 2 years ago. My dc were 7th and 4th at the time. It was okay. I would not say it was "great" nor would I say I regretted doing the co-op. Our grammar/writing program had done some discussion about some fallacies so it was not totally new to dc. My dc enjoyed the co-op and the group discussions. I wonder if part of the "average" rating I'm giving it was the age range. We had dc as young as 4th grade and as old as 9th in the same class.

 

Next year, for 7th, I plan on using Art of Argument. I've not seen it in person, but I like what I see on sample pages and I like what I'm hearing about it.

 

What are your goals for logic at this age/stage? Do you want something that will discuss things like band wagon, red herrings, fallacies, etc.? Or do you want critical thinking skills like Mind Benders or Grid Perplexors? What age would this be used?

[Cleopatra]

I used it briefly during our last election to model the different fallacies used during a campaign, and we're planning to use it in full next year. I just read a post where a mom said her dc used Traditional Logic after the Fallacy Detective, yet what her dc learned in the FD is what first comes to mind, and it is much easier to apply in "real" life. I think the writing/structure of it appeals more to children than adults, but it looks like a good way to gently introduce logic and get them prepared for the more in-depth logic programs.

 

Have you seen this thread? http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253608

This program has intrigued me, as well. Ah, so many choices .... :001_huh:

[Lori D.]

Fallacy Detective was a favorite of our 2 DSs; they did it when about 7th and 8th grades with Dad. Middle school is a great age to introduce fallacies because that's right about the age kids love finding those flaws in logic, advertising, true-claims, etc. As you suggested in your post above, FD is a great resources for the dinner table -- a homeschooling friend did it last year that way with her 3 sons, gr. 10, 6, and 4 -- and the youngest one loved it too and kept begging for more, and then was able to point out fallacies later on, so he really grasped the concepts.

Note: FD comes from a strong Christian worldview which is intertwined throughout the book, which will likely make it difficult for secular homeschoolers to use. Below is a list of secular critical thinking, logic, and philosophy ideas. Most can be seen at Amazon.com. Enjoy your Logic adventures, whatever you go with! Warmest regards, Lori D.


- Logic Countdown; Logic Liftoff; Orbiting With Logic (Risby) -- puzzles and exercises; a little bit of text
- Philosophy For Kids (White)
- The Snake and the Fox (Haight)
- Nonsense: Red Herrings, Straw Men and Sacred Cows: How We Abuse Logic in Our Everyday Language (Gula)
- Critical Thinking Activities in Pattern, Imagery and Logic (Seymour) -- puzzles
- Critical Thinking (Harnadek) -- puzzles and exercises
- Harry Stottlemeier's Discovery (Lipman)
- The Philosophy Files (Law)
- Crimes Against Logic (Whyte)
- Rulebook for Argument (Weston)
- Symbolic Logic and the Game of Logic (Carroll) -- mathematical logic focus
- Tarski's World (Liu) -- games and exercises
- The Philosopher's Toolkit; The Pig That Wants to Be Eaten (Baggini) -- short scenarios to spark discussion

[Mom22ns]

We're doing Fallacy Detective now and I really don't think you would like it if you aren't Christian. We used the Logic Lift Off Series before FD and really enjoyed that. My kids are split on FD. One loves it and has really gotten all the Fallacies and loves pointing them out, the other just thinks its boring. There have been lots of great suggestions in this thread. I would definitely choose one of them and skip FD.

[LibraryLover]

Super helpful! Thanks, WTM friends. :)

[AuntPol]

My kids just love Fallacy Detectives. They get excited when I get the book out.

 

I know many think it leans left or pokes fun at the left or whatever but I see almost as many instances where it pokes fun at the conservative right (lots of ribbing to the Flat Earth Society).

[Nan in Mass]

We managed to use Fallacy Detective despite its conservative Christian stance. The "Christian" issues (abortion, spanking, etc.) stand out from the rest of the text so much that it was easy for me to edit them out. I just preread the chapter and marked which bits I didn't want to use. The chapters were short and the reading level low, so it took me about 5 minutes to do this. I would have had to do this no matter where we stood on the issues, since I wouldn't have wanted to discuss them with my young boys under those circumstances, anyway. Usually, it was just a matter of eliminating a few of the questions at the end of the chapter. There was one chapter where a lot of Bible examples were given and I had to cross out more than just a sentence or two, but for most chapters, it was very minimal. Every day we sat down together, I read the chapter out loud, read the questions out loud, and they answered orally. The one who was the worst at it answered first and then the other one said whether they agreed or disagreed (mine were non-competative so this worked fine). I offered an m+m for every fallacy that they could spot anywhere throughout the day and explain. I didn't worry if they remembered the term, but they had to explain what was wrong with it. Usually they remembered the term. They loved it. I found it easy and fun.

 

There are probably curriculum out there now that are secular and also fun and easy to use, but at the time, my choices were limited.

 

-Nan

[Mom-ninja.]

 

 

- Logic Countdown; Logic Liftoff; Orbiting With Logic (Risby) -- puzzles and exercises; a little bit of text

- Philosophy For Kids (White)

- The Snake and the Fox (Haight)

- Nonsense: Red Herrings, Straw Men and Sacred Cows: How We Abuse Logic in Our Everyday Language (Gula)

- Critical Thinking Activities in Pattern, Imagery and Logic (Seymour) -- puzzles

- Critical Thinking (Harnadek) -- puzzles and exercises

- Harry Stottlemeier's Discovery (Lipman)

- The Philosophy Files (Law)

- Crimes Against Logic (Whyte)

- Rulebook for Argument (Weston)

- Symbolic Logic and the Game of Logic (Carroll) -- mathematical logic focus

- Tarski's World (Liu) -- games and exercises

- The Philosopher's Toolkit; The Pig That Wants to Be Eaten (Baggini) -- short scenarios to spark discussion

 

Thanks for this list.

[jen210]

and my boys (6th and 7th grade) LOVE it! They beg for more and think it is fun. I'm amazed at how well they remember the different fallacies (better than me). We are going to do Thinking Toolbox next year. I looked at the CAP materials at the Cincy convention this weekend and I'd like to use all of them too. They looked awesome but I'm going to continue with TT next year because no writing required (remember I have boys) :)

 

I think Art of Argument (fallacies), the Argument Builder (like Thinking Toolbox) and Discovery of Deduction (formal logic) look great and will probably do them in that order, doing the first two in one year and the last one over a year by itself.

 

I looked at Traditional Logic and just can't imagine my boys doing that anytime in the next few years. Much too dry for them.

 

Have fun with it!

 

Jennifer

[TC5]

and my boys (6th and 7th grade) LOVE it! They beg for more and think it is fun. I'm amazed at how well they remember the different fallacies (better than me). We are going to do Thinking Toolbox next year. I looked at the CAP materials at the Cincy convention this weekend and I'd like to use all of them too. They looked awesome but I'm going to continue with TT next year because no writing required (remember I have boys) :)

 

I think Art of Argument (fallacies), the Argument Builder (like Thinking Toolbox) and Discovery of Deduction (formal logic) look great and will probably do them in that order, doing the first two in one year and the last one over a year by itself.

 

I looked at Traditional Logic and just can't imagine my boys doing that anytime in the next few years. Much too dry for them.

 

Have fun with it!

 

Jennifer

 

This is helpful, since my boys don't prefer to write, either.

 

I am trying to sort out all of these programs for the next few years, but my son will be 11, like the OP's daughter, a few months into in 6th grade, so I am most interested in the first steps.

 

Would it be repetitious to use FD and TT as well as Art of Argument and Argument Builder? They all look so good, but I don't want overkill. Is it possible/common to do FD and TT in one year -- in three hours or less each week? I'd like to get through as much Logic as we can in the logic stage, even if that means ending with Traditional Logic 1, but we haven't made it very far yet (just Mind Benders A1-A4 and will finish Building Thinking Skills Level 2 for 5th grade), as my son spends less than 30 minutes on it each week. Also, is DoD a substitute for Traditional Logic 1, or do students "need" the TL1?

 

Thanks for all the ideas!