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Is Veritas Press' booklist for Omnibus III too difficult for youngers?


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#1 Excelsior! Academy

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 04:18 PM

I really like the look of VP booklist for Omnibus III, but how difficult is it? Having never read most of them myself I am clueless. Sometimes VP introduces things a bit young, in my opinion. Has anyone else used these? Are they too much to attempt in one year using WTM methods?

ETA:I am not planning on using Omnibus III, just the books.

#2 debbiec

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 12:18 AM

How young is the "youngers"?

#3 Excelsior! Academy

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 02:20 PM

Specifically 14 turning 15 partway through the year.

Also a 11 turning 12 partway through the year.

Both are working a lot on the same level. I would not consider it with my other children at 11, just this one child.

#4 OhElizabeth

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 04:33 PM

You need to check them out from the library and decide for yourself. You're not going to get as much out of the books if you just pick them up and read them. If that's what you want, get TOG and you'll have divided reading lists and age-appropriate questions. I didn't realize (from your other thread asking about the BJU 11 vs. 8) that you were talking about an 11 yo. That would give me a lot of pause. TOG would give you a lot more tools with those ages. Omnibus is specifically attempting to do a GB study: read and think about the issues.

If you don't like TOG, then MFW. In fact, given everything you've said, I think you might like to look at doing the MFW high school sequence straight. It fits your oldest and would be a challenge for your 11 yo.

The books used by Omnibus will all be at your library. I would just start pre-reading them for yourself. At that point your gut will tell you what mix you want for your two dc. See you might realize you want *some* of the books Omnibus uses (which MFW would also use) but more history or more lighter fiction, a blend. You might realize only a small number of the books fit your dc. Pilgrim's Progress will fit just about anyone, but "The Killer Angels"? (It's about the battle of Gettysburg.) I've been reading through books myself, trying to prep, and I have a nice mix brewing of GB plus biographies plus girl-specific books (cookbook of General Lee, books on CW garments, tenement recipes, etc.), Marrin and other topical books, etc. TOG would get you a *whole* lot closer to a generally pleasant mix. So it's not so much about what they'd be doing as what they'd be MISSING.

I'm being too opinionated here. If a dc is very, very advanced at 11 or 12, they also have opinions about what they're interested in, what slant the materials should take, etc. It's nice to run with that. My dd asked to do just modern american history (1850 to present) so we could go more in-depth. So we're going to save all the stuff from the first half of our spine and first half of Omnibus iii to use for a nice gov't/constitution course later.

BTW, Janice had tossed out the suggestion of alternating hard and easy books, another thing you have the luxury to do when you flex the schedule.

#5 OhElizabeth

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 04:37 PM

BTW, Angelina has said, don't know if it's still true, that the VP online class for Omnibus iii was thinking about using the BJU *8* as a spine, not 11. Think about that one. Simpler spine that you could make fit both, more time for Marrin and other good topical inserts, then pick and chose from the O3 books that suit you.

#6 Excelsior! Academy

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 08:44 PM

Thank you. Yes, one of the youngers is 11. I actually prefer not to list her age most of the time. I think she can handle the content, but I don't want to introduce too much too young. I think we are going to do MFW Ancients the next year and in sequence, just not next year. I'll look at TOG. We've always used VP or MFW so I'm not sure about switching to another program. I do tend to over research a bit, though so I will enjoy checking it out.

#7 OhElizabeth

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 09:48 AM

For my dd of similar age I finally decided just to use the BJU8 American Republic (just the 2nd half) with Landmark (Boorstin, the book SL3/4 uses) and add in all the Marrin and Freedman and Bartoletti books we had planned on reading. She could *read* Uncle Tom's Cabin and some of the other stuff from O3, but I finally decided she wasn't going to SYNTHESIZE it the way I wanted her to. And I don't really have time to go through stuff twice (now and in a couple years), kwim? And you know what's strange? For as much as I don't like history (and I'm avowed on this, well-stated, frequently referring others to textbooks to save their poor history haters from lit-based courses), I could read some of this stuff and enjoy it. I actually stayed up late one evening and read through the majority of UT Cabin, cracking up the whole way at the humor. My dd went to a play of it, and maybe it was a bad production but she TOTALLY missed that element. When she explained that, and when I saw the lit guides from Progeny Press that I wanted to go with the books to discuss them were for grades 10-12, and when I thought through it more, I realized I wanted her to do more than READ the books. I wanted her to ENJOY them and be able to THINK about them. I don't mind letting her read something earlier and coming back later to think about it, but for me to schedule it and it be such a reach that she doesn't grapple with the issues, well that's just wasting my time.

So anyways, similar position, and that's what I decided to do. I have no clue how that pans out for you. You could use BJU8 as the spine with both but have the older do O3 readings and the younger do a list you create. If you do that, I would look at the TOG3/4 recommendations for dialectic level and see where they get you. Basically once you find a few good authors on her level (Albert Marrin, Russell Freedman, Susan Campbell Bartolleti, Jim Murphy, etc.), then you just go through and look at them to see what fits. The books by these authors are not all at the same level, so some of the Marrins are a great fit for us right now, and some are too much of a stretch. Freedman's work is a bit lower, so it's usually more like it either fits or is too young. Bartoletti (whose name I clearly can't spell, lol) is right on, and my dd enjoys everything she has looked at by her. Jim Murphy's stuff tends to be a bit boyish, but some is good.

It really wasn't as hard to do all that as it sounds. I just made a chart, put in the readings by week, then merged cells in the lit column to show where a book from Omnibus would be covered over 3 weeks and left the cells single to show where one of these other books would only be over 1. Sometimes also it's nice to pair books. For instance Albert Marrin has a book "Plains Warrior" that goes really well with "Where the Broken Heart Still Beats" (an easier fiction book about the white mother of the indian featured in the Marrin book). That's the first off the top of my head, but you'll find quite a few like that as you put things into the chart by week. You basically end up with a non-fiction book on the Dust Bowl or Depression or child labor or whatever and then can find a good fiction book to go with it. Makes the topic really pop! BJU is kind of straightforward, but dd seems to be liking it so far, doing it this way. And this way the material we're reading is very age-appropriate. I think there's something especially good about reading material that is age-appropriate. These books are SO COMPELLING. Bartoletti has a book on Hitler's Youth that I spent a whole night reading. You just stinkin' can't get more compelling than that for this age. Our bright ones don't need to read stuff too old for them when there's this middle ground of work that will grip their soul.

If you get really desperate or are confused by this, I'll try to post or send you my list. I've worked a ton on it, I confess, but it might help you. It's nothing brilliant. It actually isnt' quite complete, because I was waiting for all my library request books to trickle in. I usually buy, but in this case I wanted to preview everything to check level and whether we'd actually read it. So I basically went through ALL the Marrins, Freedmans, etc. the library had, hehe. What a nut. :)

#8 Excelsior! Academy

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 10:10 AM

Oh Elizabeth, that does seem like a good plan. Would you be willing to pm me so I could look it over?

#9 Heather in VA

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 12:24 PM

I'm not sure I understand. Omnibus without the Omnibus book is just a list of books. What are you trying to accomplish?

Heather

#10 Roxy Roller

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 01:15 PM

Our bright ones don't need to read stuff too old for them when there's this middle ground of work that will grip their soul.


Wow, thank you for this! I don't necessarily have 'bright ones', but this statement can apply to any child.

#11 Excelsior! Academy

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 08:06 PM

I'm not sure I understand. Omnibus without the Omnibus book is just a list of books. What are you trying to accomplish?

Heather


Hmmm...I don't know the answer. I do like Omnibus and might use it for a reference for me, but not for them. I am not sure about the time commitment right now. I am thinking about WTM methods with the VP booklist. Not the whole list just some. I am very seriously considering putting my oldest dd on a 5 year high school track.