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Accelerating the peripherals?


Reya
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I'm teaching two gifted boys--an EG+ 5-y-o with CAPD and an HG+ 4-y-o. (They're actually only about 9 mo apart in age.) We're above grade level in most things--math, reading, etc. The 5-y-o is reading on a 6th grade level and will be going 3rd grade math when the school year starts. The 4-y-o will be reading on a late 1st grade level and will either be in 1st grade math or near to it when the school year starts. Both of them progress rapidly at an "easy" pace for them in the core subjects.

 

I've been thinking about spelling and grammar--the things that normally drop out before high school--and I don't like the idea that they'll still be slogging through them at the same time that they'll be doing upper level math and having some pretty serious reading loads--no matter how much fun the math and reading are!

 

These are subjects that can be taught fast or slow; all that matters is how much TIME you devote to them. Once we're done with them, we're done forever, and there's that much less in the kids' schedules. And that's the thing--time. It's going to take X amount of time to get through spelling and grammar (and yep, they both need it!), either now or later. When should I set aside the time? I could double up now, no problem, and they'd be done in a few years and wouldn't have to worry about it again. But I also don't like the idea of biting into things like history and science! So I don't know what I want to do. *crosses eyes*

 

Any opinions? BTDT? Anything?

 

EDIT: If it makes a difference, they like spelling/grammar okay but don't beg for it.

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Well, I don't know if you are ever really done with spelling and grammar forever, though I suspect you are talking about a formal program that has a beginning and end. Even if that is the case, though, I would caution you that gifted kids who study something at a young age sometimes need to be re-learn it at an older age.

 

There's lots of ways to go about it, and what I've done is by no means the "best" approach!

 

I wound up not using a formal spelling program with my kids as I found it didn't work for them. They would master a lesson but misspell the words in their writing assignments. So, I've relied on proof-reading and having them re-write things, discussing spelling rules as we go. Some kids are natural spellers, and I think for them spelling programs are a waste of time. It must work for the majority of kids, otherwise it wouldn't be such a staple in elementary curriculums!

 

We did some simple grammar in the elementary years, used the Charlotte Mason book a bit, played lots of Mad Libs. Sometimes we'd diagram the sentences that were part of the day's dictation. I'm having my younger son do a year long formal grammar program next year in 8th grade. He writes well, is a voracious reader, is learning Latin, but I think a formal review and study of grammar would serve him well before high school.

 

One other thought. If you want to go ahead and start tackling the subjects formally now, spelling and grammar don't need to take up a lot of time. You can do them on alternate days, spend no more than 20 minutes on it in a day. You know -- slow and steady wins the race! It shouldn't eat into science or history or whatever favorite subject your kids have. Just as they do now, they will always make time for whatever subject interests them the most.

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Well, my natural speller hasn't done any spelling since she was 9 or 10. We did Spelling Power, so I could dictate a list of words and she could practice only those she didn't know. It didn't take her much time for her to master those, so we gave up on spelling. My stronget vs learner will probably have to work on spelling for years, even in high school, but we'll probably incorporate that into editing her work, vocab, etc.

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Well, I have 4 kids--10, 8, 5 and 3. The older two are beyond horrible in their spelling. We now use copywork and Calvert Spelling on computer. Workbooks did not help at all. She, the 10 yo, is great at grammar. It comes easily, but it goes easily. So now, we're doing it with CW. For my ds we're covering it with WT. I do like GWG and use it to round out our grammar and use it to cover the concepts.

 

My experience with my older son has led me to want to box check those subjects until the child is old enough to learn it even though he doesn't have any interest in it. It didn't stick with my son when he was 6. He would learn it and it would just disappear the next day. Although I said this about my dd, it's different with her. Her lack of recall is pure laziness. He was clueless on the subject. She is just plain lazy about anything other than doing science experiments and reading.

 

So my 5 year old will start FLL sometimes after he is reading more comfortably. He's just taken off on reading on his own, and I'm going to let that sink in for a while. Hopefully over the summer he'll be cruising.

 

For the other subjects, I'm considering purchasing a boxed Kindergarten program to use with living books. This would be for the 3 yo and the 5 yo. Life is kicking my but, and I feel a real sense of urgency to solidify and shore up my dd10's skills in the fundamentals. Over the next year, pre-algebra, improve her writing (hopefully spelling too), get her going in Spanish and Latin and have her working more independently without me having to nag her to get going. I'm feeling the pressure to encourage her to be internally motivated. So that is where my energies lie.

 

Hope this made sense!

 

Kimberly

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One of the kids is dyslexic, so he, at least, really needs the spelling program for spelling and increasing phonetic awareness as he reads. (Yes, he was taught phonics-only, but it takes lots to train his mind to see *every letter* even with that.) So we're going to stick with a formal program for that!

 

Additionally, I believe that every child should have some formal grammar. It makes learning foreign languages and studying linguistics easier, and it gives them awareness about how English works. So I know I want that!

 

Once it's *covered*, grammar becomes something that is largely applied rather than learned about. There really isn't much to grammar (unlike linguistics!), so it's easy to cover even the silliest and most artificial distinctions in the middle school level. :-) Spelling also becomes a subject of application (unless I get a kid determined to win the Spelling Bee or something like that).

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I don't know anything about dyslexia, but sometimes I wonder. My dd10 is just now writing letters and numbers correctly. But she still spells felt, f-l-e-t. But she is an incredible reader and doesn't seem to have any problems processing information orally, audibly, or written. The eye doctor who used to treat astronauts says her vision and tracking is fine. So, we just keep chugging along.

 

One thing I notice about my 5 year old is that he's learning to spell words as he goes along. It's interesting to watch because my older two never, never did this.

 

I hoping that he will be a natural speller. Time will tell.

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I don't know anything about dyslexia, but sometimes I wonder. My dd10 is just now writing letters and numbers correctly. But she still spells felt, f-l-e-t. But she is an incredible reader and doesn't seem to have any problems processing information orally, audibly, or written. The eye doctor who used to treat astronauts says her vision and tracking is fine. So, we just keep chugging along.

 

One thing I notice about my 5 year old is that he's learning to spell words as he goes along. It's interesting to watch because my older two never, never did this.

 

I hoping that he will be a natural speller. Time will tell.

 

I think a LOT depends on your handwriting program. If you did ball-and-stick, you're likely to have reversals for a loooong time. If it's just spelling, it's probably mind-hand coordination--her mind getting ahead of her hand. That's normal. If it's an eye-ear-mind problem, you'd see it in her reading--for very gifted readers, often there's still a big problem with pronouncing unfamiliar words, as in even getting the syllables in the right order!

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If my child would get 100% on a spelling pretest, there was no posttest. In fact, I kept track of missed words and nothing was on a posttest what was spelled correctly on the pretest. If there was 100%, then I might the very next day, give the next weeks pretest and so on. As a result, you can potentially get through 1 years worth or more within a year.

 

Our plan is to do spelling through 6th grade level and then switch to vocabulary. I like the Word Roots Software so we do that too. There are only 3 levels so far so there is not much time to spend on it.

 

I have decided to cut back on so much. I do not do a formal history curriculum anymore. I start formal science at 7th grade and go through the typical sequence. My rule is when you finish something, you are done and do not need to go on, unless you want to. When DD was younger, she always wanted to just keep going. Now that she just turned 12, she just looks forward to finishing the work for the year.

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Thanks for the feedback, Reya. This is definitely the case with my dd. She reads whole words and when she reads them aloud, the syllables are often out of order. I assume she's doing a combination of speed reading and whole word reading. She pretty much does all of her reading in between school and playing with her brothers. We often don't even see her reading, but she's finishing 20+ books a week, probably more. And the reading levels are quite varied.

 

But I'm not going to worry anymore.

 

Thanks again for the input,

 

Kimberly

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We are in the process of dealing with fast paced grammar and spelling. (So not BTDT but well on the road.) My 8yo started asking to do the FLL when he was 4. He went through year 1 and 2 in just a few months. But with him he kept asking for more. Next he used the CLASS Language 3 book (FLL 3 wasn't out yet.) He finished that in a matter of months, due to his immature writing skills it took him a bit longer to finish then his mental processing speed.

 

Now in 2nd grade he finished 5th grade basis grammar skills and moved on to Step-by-Step Grammar which covers diagramming all the parts of speech, the one thing he hadn't learned (It covers 4-7th grade grammar).

 

Most days I have to limit the amount of time he spends on grammar. Next year he will finish up the Grammar book and start the Mechanics and Usage book. When he is finished I may have ds do a grammar review book ever other year, just to keep it fresh in his mind. But even now I am seeing how he uses grammar in his writing... his ability to expand and clarify his writing by using what he's already learned through his study of grammar. It has also come in handy in his foreign language studies.

 

I don't know that I would "require" much grammar for the child not begging for it. But I do provide it for my son because he enjoys it. His younger brother doesn't seem to crave grammar like his big brother. So we go at a slower only slightly accelerated pace.

 

As for Spelling... both my boys are good spellers. After trying several programs and going up several grade levels we decided to use AVKO Sequential Spelling because we don't have to spend tons of time on words they already know how to spell. When we finish the series we will probably work on vocabulary in place of spelling.

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