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Brainskills Help!! Beyond Frustrated!


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We're just finishing our 4th week with Brainskills. Seeing that it is no longer available, I'm not sure if anyone here can help me....But I'm about to pull my hair out and I need to vent somewhere.

 

Brainskills says to work just below frustration level for you child, well my son,(turning 8 in two weeks) is beyond frustrated--he's throwing books and everything.

The first few weeks started out really good...as we went through the activities and found out where he needed to be. But now that he has maxed out on everything, the frustration has set in....Even going back to easier levels, he breaks down, and can't do what he has passed before.

 

An example would be computation numbers. He was able to add 1 within 20 seconds(ribbon level). We tried and tried but he could not do it with the metronome(bronze level), even on the slowest setting. So I went to level 2--adding 2, figuring we could just work on doing those in 20 sec(ribbon level). This has been a few weeks now, and every time it is like starting over. His times for adding 2 to single digit numbers was in the 30's to over 1 minute. He gets stuck and stares off into space trying to come up with the answer. My patience wears thin, because I just don't get why his brain can't add 2 to 1 and come up with 3.

 

Similar with Speed Numbers...circling a given number (or 2 in a box of numbers). He's done this over and over and over again, and instead of his time getting better, it gets worse each time.

 

Last fall I posted about frustrations with Fast Naming in NeuroNet...he was having the same type of scores...he'd get slower and slower, and his brain just freezes up trying to recall info rapidly. I thought Brainskills would help this, but it is just making him more and more frustrated.

 

He passed through several of the auditory levels quickly, even hitting some gold levels---but once he plateaued and I tried to go back, he had lost what he had done previously.

 

Today was a joke...he just flailed around on the table, barely spoke above a whisper, whined about every little thing. I ended up saying "I quit" and stormed off(had my own temper tantrum) I know we are supposed to put in 6 days a week, but i just don't see how me continuing today would have got anything accomplished..he wasn't trying at all. So I ran up here and am venting to you all. I do need to make up the time later today, as I'm going to be gone 3 days this week. I'm afraid this will be the beginning of the end for Brainskills.

 

On a positive note, I do think I have seen improvement in him academically---he's done his math lessons quicker and has even stated "I hate schoolwork, EXCEPT math" never thought I'd hear him say that.

 

One more thing...might as well throw this in the post, not really related to Brainskills though. This kid has no concept of tme concepts. I have taught him the days of the weeks, months of the year...heck, he learned them in preschool. I have posted a calendar, had him mark days off. But still if I tell him we're going to the zoo on Friday, and how many days away is that...he has no clue. And he never can remember what comes after Saturday or after December--the whole idea that they start all over again is just lost on him.

 

I could vent and vent and vent...but that's the jist of it. Are there any Brainskills people still on board here? Should I contact the developers of the program?

Thanks,

Ginger

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Definitely contact the developers.

 

We did PACE rather than BrainSkills, so I am not familiar with the ribbon levels, etc. I disagree somewhat with the developers in terms of working just below frustration level. They get good, fast results with that because they are using trained providers and it maximizes the provider time that parents are paying for. However, at home I think it works differently and you are better off working at just a slight frustration level, keeping the whole thing much more within the "fun" range.

 

How much time are you spending on it every day? It is not written in stone that you have to put in an hour a day. You can put in half-an-hour a day and spend two to three times longer doing the program and achieve the same results. From what I have seen, it is the total number of hours you put into the training that is the most important factor in getting results. Some children can leave off for a week and pick up where they left off. It sounds as if your son is not one of these children, so it becomes more important to maintain a daily schedule and minimize breaks from the program.

 

Research studies have shown that stress interferes with learning. The fact that you stomped off in a tantrum indicates that stress levels during your sessions are *very* high. Unless you can find a way to reduce stress levels with BrainSkills, IMO you should drop it.

 

Since you have noticed improvement in academic skills, it sounds as if BrainSkills has helped. However, it also sounds as if you and your son's expectations for improvement are way too high. You have to settle in to a daily program that simply plugs away at the exercises without expecting improvement. This shouldn't be discouraging; it's just the way it is. If, after a very long time, there are no further improvements then it means your son has topped out on his skills development (probably limited by underlying neurological problems). Sometimes you just have to plug away every day for a long time before you finally get past a plateau.

 

My suggestions for reducing stress: (1) limit the time to 20 minutes per session or do two sessions of 15 minutes every day. Later on, if your son does well with this, you can consider gradually increasing session times to 25 minutes, and then 30 minutes. (2) allow him to choose half of the exercises. If he works for 5 minutes on an exercise that is hard for him, allow him to work 5 minutes on an exercise he can choose (even if it's one he doesn't need). (3) see if there is a way you can break an exercise into smaller steps. This is where the developers can provide you with a lot of help. (4) ask your son what he would like to do. There may be some reward he wants to work towards, or he may have ideas about what would help him relax -- perhaps the living room sofa instead of the table, things like that.

 

The fact that your son had this difficulty with NeuroNet was a huge indicator that you could expect the same problem with BrainSkills. NN works on the underlying neurology. If you can't fix that, you can be sure that the same problem will crop up in cognitive skills training. In general, you get the best remediation by first addressing underlying sensory/neurological deficits. Whatever reduction in deficits you can get at that level will help with cognitive skills training. However, it's not always possible to completely eliminate deficits on the sensory/neurological level. When that is the case, as it appears to be with your son, those deficits will inevitably limit the gains you can make with cognitive skills training. Understanding this can help you understand what is going on enough to destress the situation.

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Gee, do you have Brittany there?

 

She has all of the same issues, but her TS diagnoses explains it all. "Turner Syndrome girls struggle with math." When i read that in the booklet i started to cry - she was 7 and couldn't count to 10!

 

I backed off A LOT and it has just started clicking with her the past year. SHe will be 9 on June 13 (not that she remembers that very often). We haven't even started adding yet - she's doing MUS Primer and just getting to it. But it's sticking.... same for the reading.

 

ANYWAY, i know/share your frustrations (ROFL, in multiple places!), so all i can give is hugs and hopefully someone has other helps.

 

Maybe we should make it saturday - we can go out! LOL!!

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Gee Tracy, you're everywhere!! LOL!

I am thinking that part of my impatience today had to do with the other stuff going on that left me short tempered. (having to do with frustrating computer problems, setting up Homesat. Tracy has been a huge help to me!)

So are you sticking with MUS for Brittany? I tried it with Cade, didn't work...tried Right Start..didn't work either. Strangely, he does not like hands on--prefers the workbook of Rod and Staff.

 

I guess what I wonder now is just what are the neurological glitches and what does that mean for him.

 

This is the first time I've lost it during a session with him, and I have actually been pleased with how the sessions have been going. I thought that he would have given me more resistance than he has. I think he has the most trouble when we don't do it first thing in the morning. Today we tried to do it around 2:00, after church, I made him turn off a tv show to do it...he was just in a bad mood to start with. My frustration didn't so much have to do with his performance, but with his whining and complaining and lack of trying. If he is trying and doing it, then while I may wonder 'why on earth is he so inconsistent', I'm glad that he is doing it.

 

I did implent a reward system that I've slacked on the last week--giving him a quarter every time he beats his own score or improves his time, and a dollar for every new level he gets to. I was really doling out the money for a while, then this past week he really wasn't earning anything, so i kind of let it slide since I didn't want to make him feel bad for not earning it. But maybe he just needs to see that carrot dangling in front of him.

 

There are activities he does really well with...the presidents, memory cards to name two. What I just don't get is how he can name the 43 presidents forwards and backwards and yet take 10 seconds to add 1 or 2 to say number 5. ( Yet if it was in his math book, he could add 8 +6, 9+5 in an instant---ironically he usually gets 100% on his math lessons/drills) So I just can't figure out what that glitch is and what if anything, can be done about it.

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We're just finishing our 4th week with Brainskills. Seeing that it is no longer available, I'm not sure if anyone here can help me....But I'm about to pull my hair out and I need to vent somewhere.

 

Brainskills says to work just below frustration level for you child, well my son,(turning 8 in two weeks) is beyond frustrated--he's throwing books and everything.

The first few weeks started out really good...as we went through the activities and found out where he needed to be. But now that he has maxed out on everything, the frustration has set in....Even going back to easier levels, he breaks down, and can't do what he has passed before.

 

An example would be computation numbers. He was able to add 1 within 20 seconds(ribbon level). We tried and tried but he could not do it with the metronome(bronze level), even on the slowest setting. So I went to level 2--adding 2, figuring we could just work on doing those in 20 sec(ribbon level). This has been a few weeks now, and every time it is like starting over. His times for adding 2 to single digit numbers was in the 30's to over 1 minute. He gets stuck and stares off into space trying to come up with the answer. My patience wears thin, because I just don't get why his brain can't add 2 to 1 and come up with 3.

 

Similar with Speed Numbers...circling a given number (or 2 in a box of numbers). He's done this over and over and over again, and instead of his time getting better, it gets worse each time.

 

Last fall I posted about frustrations with Fast Naming in NeuroNet...he was having the same type of scores...he'd get slower and slower, and his brain just freezes up trying to recall info rapidly. I thought Brainskills would help this, but it is just making him more and more frustrated.

 

He passed through several of the auditory levels quickly, even hitting some gold levels---but once he plateaued and I tried to go back, he had lost what he had done previously.

 

Today was a joke...he just flailed around on the table, barely spoke above a whisper, whined about every little thing. I ended up saying "I quit" and stormed off(had my own temper tantrum) I know we are supposed to put in 6 days a week, but i just don't see how me continuing today would have got anything accomplished..he wasn't trying at all. So I ran up here and am venting to you all. I do need to make up the time later today, as I'm going to be gone 3 days this week. I'm afraid this will be the beginning of the end for Brainskills.

 

On a positive note, I do think I have seen improvement in him academically---he's done his math lessons quicker and has even stated "I hate schoolwork, EXCEPT math" never thought I'd hear him say that.

 

One more thing...might as well throw this in the post, not really related to Brainskills though. This kid has no concept of tme concepts. I have taught him the days of the weeks, months of the year...heck, he learned them in preschool. I have posted a calendar, had him mark days off. But still if I tell him we're going to the zoo on Friday, and how many days away is that...he has no clue. And he never can remember what comes after Saturday or after December--the whole idea that they start all over again is just lost on him.

 

I could vent and vent and vent...but that's the jist of it. Are there any Brainskills people still on board here? Should I contact the developers of the program?

Thanks,

Ginger

 

 

I did use BrainSkills and have a lot of tricks that got my ds through the program. First off, use the adaptations that are recommended on the accompanning video if your ds needs them. Call the developers if you need additional adaptations.

 

I did several things to make the program more palatable. First I modified the reward system so my ds could typically earn one token every 2-3 days. Some days he could earn 2. This gave him frequent rewards, but not so frequent that he automatically expected one daily. Having a token to give him was vital.

 

I also set a consistant starting time first thing in the morning so both he and I were fresh. I also guarenteed that the session would end in precisely one hour. If he was close to completing another level at the end of a session, I would ham it up pleading for him to continue, but when he said no I didn't force the issue. I also tried to start and end each session with an activity he enjoyed and scattered others through the session. On occasion I'd let him select the next activity. On difficult excercises, I'd not try to complete a level, I'd just cut it short. Another mother here would let her dc administer an activity to her (the mother) for a change of pace, and giggles.

 

However there were still bad days. If ds had a cold or headache, the session was cancelled for the day -- the program is too demanding to expect a child to do even semi-well. If he started the session in a bad mood, I'd give him about 5-10 minutes to modify his attitude. If it didn't improve, I made him go outside and run laps. I would keep him running until I saw his body relax. Then I would restart the session for a full hour. It was very rare that the running didn't cure the attitude problem. However it was also rare that my ds received full points for a good effort and attitude.

 

I contributed to the problem on occasion by misreading the instructions and expecting 100% correct instead of the lower % actually specified. I also was not aware of the modifications mentioned in the program until we hit a wall. If I was familiar with all the modifications, I could have saved a lot of heartache by switching quickly.

 

Addition: I just read how you would give your ds money each time his speed improved. I wouldn't do that for two reasons. First, it puts on additional stress on a child and no one can always improve. The rewards also lose their impact if handed out too frequently. Towards the end my ds just didn't care if he recieved another dollar or not. BTW, my ds earned $1 for every 100 points he earned.

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There are activities he does really well with...the presidents, memory cards to name two. What I just don't get is how he can name the 43 presidents forwards and backwards and yet take 10 seconds to add 1 or 2 to say number 5. ( Yet if it was in his math book, he could add 8 +6, 9+5 in an instant---ironically he usually gets 100% on his math lessons/drills) So I just can't figure out what that glitch is and what if anything, can be done about it.

 

The presidents and memory cards involve visualization. When he looks at 8+6 in his workbook, he is seeing the problem (visualizing). My bet is he isn't good at visualizing numerical relationships. Lindamood-Bell's "On Cloud Nine" math program works on teaching a child how to visualize math, for example by starting with a number line. Just a thought......

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I do need to come up with a better reward/incentive system--it's just has to be something that he feels is worth his while (he drives a hard bargain!)

 

I guess I'm confused about the visualizing thing. I can see he is doing it when he is doing the computation exercises because he stops and his eyes go up after each one. Should I give him more oral math drill? I slacked on that this year because going through vision therapy, I thought he needed more practice 'seeing' the written problem. Gee, at the beginning of this year, I remember it was easier for him if I said each problem versus him reading them. Now, maybe, we've flip flopped.

 

Would it be the end of the world if I modified the computation exercise and gave him the numbers orally and had him respond with +1 or +2? Then again, would that make him more frustrated because he has to visualize both numbers? Guess I can try it out and see how he does..

 

Not sure if this is on the same trail, but he seems to have really good reading comprehension, despite being very dyslexic. He'll stumble through a story and I may not have gleemed any details from it due to his labored reading, but if I ask him to tell back what happened, he is able to tell me the story without any problem. On the other hand, if I ask him to tell me back something that I read...forget about it. Well, I shouldn't say that---if it is a simple story, or something he is very interested in, he can tell me what happened...the key is that he has to be interested in it, and he has to focus his listening. He can't be just in the room building legos or some other task.

Or we'll listen to a Story of the World chapter in the car, and despite him not being able to go anywhere, he can't tell me a single thing about what he just heard.

 

So part of it seems that it is difficulty with the things that he hears that he has to visualize, but on the other other hand...When I give him 15 unrelated words in Brainskills, he can tell them back with no problem despite his coming up with very weak visual links (something like such and such is next to such and such, and the next thing is next to such and such).

 

I'm rambling, but I'm just trying to think this through.... One other thing I see I might want to try is instead of having him do digit spans(which is weak), I'm going to give him letters and see if he does any better. (hmm--doubt it, now that I think about it, if I spell a word for him I have to go very slow).

 

Thanks for listening ;-):001_smile:

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....I guess I'm confused about the visualizing thing. I can see he is doing it when he is doing the computation exercises because he stops and his eyes go up after each one. Should I give him more oral math drill? I slacked on that this year because going through vision therapy, I thought he needed more practice 'seeing' the written problem. Gee, at the beginning of this year, I remember it was easier for him if I said each problem versus him reading them. Now, maybe, we've flip flopped.

 

Would it be the end of the world if I modified the computation exercise and gave him the numbers orally and had him respond with +1 or +2? Then again, would that make him more frustrated because he has to visualize both numbers? Guess I can try it out and see how he does..:

 

I would be hesitant to change a visual activity to an auditory activity. To me, this would not be simplification, it would be a radical change. The program is designed to address both auditory and visual problems.

 

 

Not sure if this is on the same trail, but he seems to have really good reading comprehension, despite being very dyslexic. He'll stumble through a story and I may not have gleemed any details from it due to his labored reading, but if I ask him to tell back what happened, he is able to tell me the story without any problem. On the other hand, if I ask him to tell me back something that I read...forget about it. Well, I shouldn't say that---if it is a simple story, or something he is very interested in, he can tell me what happened...the key is that he has to be interested in it, and he has to focus his listening. He can't be just in the room building legos or some other task.

Or we'll listen to a Story of the World chapter in the car, and despite him not being able to go anywhere, he can't tell me a single thing about what he just heard.

 

So part of it seems that it is difficulty with the things that he hears that he has to visualize, but on the other other hand...When I give him 15 unrelated words in Brainskills, he can tell them back with no problem despite his coming up with very weak visual links (something like such and such is next to such and such, and the next thing is next to such and such).

 

I'm rambling, but I'm just trying to think this through.... One other thing I see I might want to try is instead of having him do digit spans(which is weak), I'm going to give him letters and see if he does any better. (hmm--doubt it, now that I think about it, if I spell a word for him I have to go very slow).

 

Thanks for listening ;-):001_smile:

 

I'm thinking that he may have an unresolved receptive language problem. He may also have other auditory problems. Has he had a launguage evaluation?

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No, he hasn't had a language eval. I'm an out of practice SLP. I don't doubt that he would probably score lower on some areas. But I don't know that many SLP's that would deliver an effective treatment protocol. I remember several similar activities that might overlap with something like Brainskills or doing digit spans etc. I never saw anyone get 'fixed'--which is why I got involved in NeuroNet, because it seemed to work at a more basic level, that when corrected, would trickle down (or up) to other skills.

The cases I saw were limited though, and I haven't worked in 6 or 7 years. Usually children that age that were in therapy had obvious expressive along with receptive delays.

Have you had any positive experiences of a language delay being 'fixed' in therapy? I also don't want to knock my own profession.. I guess I could always do continuing ed in this area. I'd be interested to learn more.

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I've seen a couple of cases of major improvement, though there were still problems of varying degrees. I'm not sure that they are similar cases to your ds's.

 

My sister couldn't even say her name when she was 5 yo in the mid 60's. She started intensive therapy with Purdue University - 5 days a week for the summer - and became very verbal. She went on to get her master's in communication and works with both written and spoken language in preparing corporate training programs. However she can't learn foreign languages and was granted a waiver for her university graduation requirements. (She's told me recently that she didn't have a problem understanding sounds, but I wonder if she remembers that well given her foriegn lang prob and problems others in the family have had.)

 

The second case is my ds. He had severe receptive and expressive language delays with other problems. His preschool therapy taught him pronounciation, but when he was dismissed he spoke in canned sentences and often, when asked a question, would respond to a slightly different question. (ex. Is that Joe's car? No, John's car is red.) In the second grade he started with a speech pathologist for a half hour once a week during the school year. She had no special sound equipement or "programs" as far as I know. She worked with him for 4 years, using lots games to engage him while they worked on speech. As he advanced she worked more on his auditory memeory, word selection, vocal quality and tone of voice. His conversational skills did improve, though it was still difficult for him. I followed ST with 3 rounds of TLP, which I thought made only a minor improvement (Because of his SPD, my ds had severe reactions to sudden loud noises).

 

However it was BrainSkills that finally made conversation easy for my ds. When we started, his auditory segmenting skills were those of a 5 yo (he was almost 11) and when we ended his skills were those of an older teen. However, my ds had completed years of OT, VT and ST to correct as much as possible the underlying problems. Also his ability to distinguish sounds from years of ST was such that he could help me with the individual letter sounds needed for administring BrainSkills. (I have mild speech problems, mostly with deciphering specific sounds).

 

So I've seen one case where ST therapy made an unbelievable improvement and one where it enabled bare bones conversation where there was none before. I've also experienced ST which made only superficial impact on resolving problems. (My own minor problems and my ds's early ST)

 

Because my ds had many LD's besides his language problems, I skipped a more intensive language program that was recommended to be completed before BrainSkills-- Fast For Word. You might check into that program. I believe it's useful mostly for individuals with problems in distinguishing sounds.

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I haven't been around in a while, so I don't know if you've done this or not, but when we attempted BrainSkills with my dyslexic son a year ago we routinely ran into similar things. We gutted through it, and despite best efforts on both our parts he made just modest gains.

 

We were neglecting Claire's advice to be sure to have visual issues addressed first. We're now in VT, and will probably pick up some of the BrainSkills activities again in the fall when we're finished with VT (if I think he needs them then). So that's my opinion - if he's dyslexic and hasn't had visual processing addressed, you'll both probably be disappointed in the results of your efforts in BrainSkills.

 

NCW

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Yes, he went through VT...we finished in December. But I 'am' thinking I need to take him back for a re-eval, as their have been some issues that I've noticed lately that I think he might have had some regression.

Just need to add that to my to-do list :-)

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That's disappointing to hear about regression. Our DO insists on things like no hand-held games, no reading in the car, etc., to prevent further problems. I also know that in cases where VT doesn't "stick" it can mean that the person's vestibular system may need some fine-tuning. Does he get carsick? Fall off chairs for no reason? For my dd, this shows up in a fear of being alone - needs another person with her to sort of anchor her. Listening programs can also help with vestibular issues.

 

However, maybe none of this is applicable to your son. It could be all about breaking BrainSkills down into less frustrating chunks, as others have said.

 

NCW

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I didn't know about the games and reading in the car...Hmm. He doesn't read in the car(I only wish he would ;-)), he does have a Nintendo DS, but most of the time he is grounded from it---but that could be a factor.

 

No car sickness, but yes to falling of the chairs...that is an every day occurrence. I thought it was a behavior issue.

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We have a home program for vt that includes walking a balance beam (forward, backwards, and sideways) while looking straight ahead. They also have to stand on a rocker board with one eye patched, bouncing and catching a rubber ball with one hand, and following eye tracking in a large circle. They're pretty tough exercises for my kiddos.

 

I've also added graded vestibular movement in specific directions to activate the semicircular canals, as well as therapeutic listening. I know that if I can optimize their vestibular systems we will get the most out of vt. If you think this could help your child as well, it would be most appropriate to check with an OT skilled in sensory integrative techniques.

 

hths,

NCW

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That's disappointing to hear about regression. Our DO insists on things like no hand-held games, no reading in the car, etc., to prevent further problems. I also know that in cases where VT doesn't "stick" it can mean that the person's vestibular system may need some fine-tuning. Does he get carsick? Fall off chairs for no reason? For my dd, this shows up in a fear of being alone - needs another person with her to sort of anchor her. Listening programs can also help with vestibular issues.

 

OK, more to read. We have some funky issues with the fear of being alone.

 

If you think this could help your child as well, it would be most appropriate to check with an OT skilled in sensory integrative techniques.

 

I know one of these - she's on the coast, and now NOT in private practice, but she's great!! (oh, i should add I know Ginger! LOL!!!)

 

My reading workload just go bigger.....

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All of my kids have a fear of being alone, too. Neither Mikaela nor Cade will go to the bathroom in our bedroom unless we are back there. After you were here and we talked about putting the playroom upstairs, it hit me later that if we did that they'd be too scared to go up and play by themselves(hey...one way to keep it clean!)

 

As for Brainskills, it has been going much better since my vent. I think I just need to do it first thing in the morning while we are both fresh. But on the days we can't...not sure if I should even try it.

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I hope it didn't sound like I was saying that if your kid is afraid of being alone they have vestibular challenges...I really mean it can be one of many symptoms. My dd also falls off chairs (rarely, but occasionally) for no reason, has fairly weak core strength, gets car sick (doesn't throw up, but complains of headache/nausea), and is sensitive to noises...as well as difficulty with skills requiring bilateral integration.

 

Anyway, didn't want to seem alarmist. Fear of being alone can probably have a lot of causes.

 

NCW

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am a trained PACE provider who has experience with both and BrainSkills. Please feel free to give me a call and I would be happy to help walk you through some of the areas that are tripping you up or need tweaking.

 

I currently provide a homestudy program option for people who are within traveling distance (OK one lady is traveling over 4 hours each week but that is the exception) and it consists of PACE as the core program. Each parent gets a 2-day seminar (consisting of a total of 12 hours of training) and weekly follow up (one hour). Even with extensive training this is a tricky program to get a grasp of and I get a number of questions each week that come up specifically because each student has different needs.

 

I have a fairly flexible schedule on Thursday May 29th so jut call when you get a break. If the phone goes to voice mail just leave your name and number and reference WTM forums. I am a late night person so let me know your time zone and the latest I can call. I will try to call back within 24 hours.

 

I think this would be the most expeditious way of going or I could just write a book and not hit on a single thing that would help you.

 

I am in Florida and my number is 239-218-4307

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I didn't know about the games and reading in the car...Hmm. He doesn't read in the car(I only wish he would ;-)), he does have a Nintendo DS, but most of the time he is grounded from it---but that could be a factor.

 

No car sickness, but yes to falling of the chairs...that is an every day occurrence. I thought it was a behavior issue.

 

It just hit me that your ds may suffer from Sensory Processing Dysfunction. (SPD or the older term SID). Your ds has had VT, has language problems and has trouble sitting in chairs.

 

Please read The Out-of-Sync Child by Kranowitz. If you feel that it fits your ds, run - don't walk - to see an OT certified, or at least very experienced, in SPD.

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