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What I've noticed is that it seems the young elementary grades push a lot of critical thinking skills and it "seems" the kids are doing much harder work. Then they get to the upper elementary / junior high level and can't move forward as fast as they should because they haven't spent enough time on the facts. One of the reasons my dd was so bored when she tried going back in 5th was because they spent a large part of the day working on mulitplication and division facts. :001_huh: It drove her nuts since she had not only learned how to mulitply and divide but had also memorized those facts in the 3rd grade. She had been able to move on and was now comfortable using those thinking skills. I had pulled her out in 2nd because she was not an "outside of the box" thinker yet and so she started calling herself stupid. I think, at least in our district, that the level of advancement dwindles as they enter junior high and high school.

There is much truth in this post. You cannot manipulate the information you don't have and/or don't truly understand. Forcing "high order thinking skills" onto too young, intellectually immature students is generally catastrophic and turns into a travesty - another reason why I like the gradual, three stage WTM approach. Of course, there are exceptions, and exceptional kids - both in a homeschool setting and inside an institution - but as a general rule, kids are very often being "falsely advanced", if you get what I mean, missing out on comprehension. It's different than having a good, thorough education (the one of which we homeschoolers don't have monopoly, of course, as noted here and in the other thread) - and a typical result of a "teaching to the test" mentality.

Liessmann... :D

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I haven't read all the responses, but maybe it's because we value the better late than early mentality. I don't feel that kids need to write in K, nor do division in 2nd grade.

 

So using his own thoughts, why do many kids need remedial work in college because they failed so badly in PS? Why can't they count change or think for themselves? Why can't they spell or read at more than an 8th grade level? Why do kids end all their sentences with a question and say, "like" alot? For the amount of time the ps system has their hands on our kids, you'd think they should be rocket scientists. I could go on.

 

I have absolutely no problem with the better late than early method.

 

But you do need to remember that homeschoolers do need remedial work in college on occasion. And some of them can't count change or think for themselves. And some can't spell or read at more than an 8th grade level. And some use the work "like" a lot. And not all become rocket scientists. And of course you realize that some ps students do not need any remedial work in college, do count change, and think for themselves, spell & read at a high level and have become rocket scientists. Just as it is wrong for ps principals and teachers to paint with a broad brush, it is wrong for us to do so too.

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I have absolutely no problem with the better late than early method.

 

But you do need to remember that homeschoolers do need remedial work in college on occasion. And some of them can't count change or think for themselves. And some can't spell or read at more than an 8th grade level. And some use the work "like" a lot. And not all become rocket scientists. And of course you realize that some ps students do not need any remedial work in college, do count change, and think for themselves, spell & read at a high level and have become rocket scientists. Just as it is wrong for ps principals and teachers to paint with a broad brush, it is wrong for us to do so too.

 

Yep, just painting the picture of the two edged sword here.:)

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But you do need to remember that homeschoolers do need remedial work in college on occasion. And some of them can't count change or think for themselves. And some can't spell or read at more than an 8th grade level. And some use the work "like" a lot. And not all become rocket scientists. And of course you realize that some ps students do not need any remedial work in college, do count change, and think for themselves, spell & read at a high level and have become rocket scientists. Just as it is wrong for ps principals and teachers to paint with a broad brush, it is wrong for us to do so too.

 

THIS!!!!

 

Jean, sometimes, because I live in an area with a completely, totally useless school district in which the 4.0 valedictorian graduate whom I met last year could not speak a coherent sentence and could not make change while working at McDonald's, it is easy for me to forget that school districts like Traverse City, Petoskey, Charlevoix, and Grosse Pointe, are competitive and turning out thoughtful, educated, well spoken students. The broad brush just doesn't work. Since I don't like it when I am painted into the box with homeschoolers that aren't doing their jobs, public school teachers and administrators who are doing a stellar job, don't want to be painted into the box with the sub-par, lazy, chaotic, schools either!

 

Faith

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I have not read through all the responses but I think my kids would be behind. My oldest if she put her mind to it could catch up quickly though. She loves to read and catches on quickly once a concept is taught. She does not work well independently though which would probably be a problem in 6th grade crowded classrooms.

My oldest son might be ahead of grade level since I am actually teaching him a year ahead with his 3rd grade sister.

They would be behind because of me though. These last 2 years have brought many challenges our way and school is seriously lacking. Not something I am proud of. I am however confident in my ability to get everyone to grade level in the next year or two. They might not be "advanced" but if they can communicate effectively, read well, and do basic math I will consider their education a success.

My goal in homeschooling is helping to shape them into adults with good character who can function well and who never want to stop learning.

Edited by happyhomemaker25
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I agree with many PPs we shouldn't make generalizations about either side. However, for me, even if my children turn out only "average" academically, there are so many other advantages. Between their LDs, food allergies and health issues, mine couldn't succeed in PS. My DS would have been completely left behind and in K he was already in remedial classes for reading, but now at 10 he is above grade level according to DIBELS. In PS he would have continued to be taken out of class for an hour every day until he caught up and missed all the classroom learning. Also in our family, while education is VERY important, character education and faith development are more so. I don't think evenings and weekends are enough (for us anyway :) ) to thoroughly ground them. In most jobs it isn't about being a super genius but about how you relate to people, basic skills and the ability to learn.

 

I know in our area the elementary schools are awesome and the high schools, not so much! It also varies from school to school within districts. My DSS and DSD went to public school when DH and I were first together. I was impressed by the elementary school (well not by the teacher telling my child who to vote for because the candidate supported the teacher's union and would make sure they had books to read but by the academics I was) but I was horrified by the middle school. They wrote one essay all year in 7th grade, there was NO grammar instruction at all, no reading outside of class, etc. Although both step children were impressed by what the twins were learning in A Beka. I think PS vary so much from school to school in our state that it would be almost impossible to count on getting a good school for all ES, MS and HS.

 

ETA: I agree with the PP and I think she said it better than I! :)

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I think some of this is because they are expected to write much earlier in public schools. My kids would be behind what they expect because I have not pushed writing in the 5-point paragraph/5 paragraph essay way. However, I would put my kids' sentence writing ability against any of them though. I think this may make the homeschoolers seems more "behind" in the earlier grades.

 

:iagree: I think this is true in my school district. In my school district the child's writing ability determines what grade they will be in for elementary school. I babysit a child during the summer, who is in 3rd grade this year. During the summer his dad said that if his writing didn't improve up to a 3rd grade level, that they would have to hold him back come fall. Their idea of a 3rd grade writing level is writing a paragraph with "ease." It didn't have to be profound or detailed, just with "ease." I thought that was so weird and different from how we are doing writing in our homeschool. However, like I said in the other thread, the kids in my summer history club, who were just finishing up 4th grade last year, could write really well and with "ease," compared to the homeschool kids, who were one year older.

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So I'm going to bring up Bill's viewpoint.

 

In some ways it's like comparing apples and oranges. Bill, Spycar, obviously lives in an area with stellar schools. He sees children receiving an excellent academic education, though he is still actively involved in afterschooling or shoring up what he sees as gaps. If he spends time with a lot of homeschoolers who aren't too motivated, half-hearted, etc. then he's seeing bad apples...people who aren't, in his view, doing as much as the local school much less more or at least better.

 

I actually live in an area with some stellar schools, but one that includes many very poor schools as well. Our district, the LAUSD is sometimes used as the poster-child for troubled school districts. So our school is an "exception" to the rule in our district.

 

The "home educators" I know are you all. And I try, in my own little way, to give my child a small part of what you all give your children.

 

But, if Bill lived in my school district, he'd see a school district that literally only, by their own admission, spends in the elementary years, 45 minutes of a six hour day on academics - admitted at a school board meeting I attended and GRIN - I brought up the question and pushed for the answer! They spend the rest of the day dealing with chaos, P.E., Music, more chaos, Fuzzy library activities, more chaos, and bubble test prep after bubble test prep after bubble test prep. So, as my dad puts it - he's a small business owner in the area - "If bubble testing and guessing the right answer out of four were skills I needed, these kids would make great employees. Unforunately, the inability to even take down a phone message, write a coherent sentence, read something from an informational brochure to a customer, read the safety instructions on a power tool and then follow those instructions, or converse appropriately with a sales rep, are not skills these grads possess." So, I end up comparing my homeschooling product to fuzzy oranges here.

 

I would not have to travel far to experience the same thing. What a shame!

 

As to the above, if I set my homeschool standards to "just be better than the local ps" my kids would have a cr*ppy education as what my local ps gives is lower than the pits. I'd expect that if Bill met my kids under those circumstances, he'd be thinking, "There's another homeschool failure/lazy parent". But, having taught in some unbelievably wonderful private schools, I am wise enough to set my bar higher than those lovely schools. I've met other homeschoolers that have set the bar well. I've met a bunch that didn't and all manner in between.

 

If we are going to generalize, I would have to say I'm pretty impressed by the virtual-understanding I have of the home education that the children of forum members are getting. I would not be here otherwise. It may be true that I want to bang my head against the wall when stupid comments are made, but I'm sure I'm not alone in that feeling. But mostly I'm very impressed with what people are trying to do for their children, and I'm just trying to do some of the same myself.

 

To me people who dedicate themselves to giving children an outstanding education are heroes. That is true of parents and *gasp* dedicated professional educators. I know the sacrifices many make to home educate, and I stand in awe of what many accomplish. I don't think it is easy.

 

As for the elementary years, I've seen journaling and I'm not impressed. Let's learn to write a good sentence before we embark on incoherent paragraphs. Globs of faux sentences only identified as paragraphs because someone harped at the poor second grader to remember to indent until the child was numbed into jumping the hoop. Apparently, rules of grammar need not be applied!

 

I can't speak definitively to this point. The writing samples I've seen from upper-grade children has been pretty good, but I do not think the children at our school are getting the deep grammar education most WTMers would consider the ideal. We will use MCT at home because of what I perceive as a deficiency in the schools, even "excellent" schools. I think this is a valid area of concern. The situation is not nearly as "bad" as I had feared in might be going in, but it still is not up to the standards this community holds as an ideal.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
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Guest Dulcimeramy

As an avid reader of all ps-related posts, I am always so glad when I hear of a successful ps full of achieving and learning students!

 

I'm the first to admit that my perspective on American public schools is very, very biased. That's because I live in one of the worst school districts in the nation! There may be excellent teachers and schools, but I can't see them from my house.

 

The school district from which I graduated is half an hour from here. That school district was one of the best in the state but is now failing. The locals still consider it to be a 'good' school and the test scores aren't all that bad for Indiana, but the high school recently joined the city schools on 'academic probation.'

 

This is not good.

 

So, you see, my knowledge of 'good' public schools extends only to schools that are somewhat better than Indianapolis Public Schools but were so close to the edge that they fell to probation levels this year. That includes my former (suburban) school and nearly all the township schools in Indianapolis.

 

Tell me about your math-literate kids who will almost certainly study calculus in public high school. Tell me about honors English classes that study more than two novels per semester. Tell me about ps students who spell correctly by default on Facebook.

 

I'm willing to believe it all (although I'm more willing to believe proof other than standardized test scores. Show me actual compositions, research papers, and science projects, and then I'll really believe).

 

I just have never seen it for myself.

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Reposting from another thread because I think it fits the topic!

 

My son attends a school program for home schoolers through the public school two mornings a week. Because my son has ADHD and needs sensory breaks during school time, my husband or I attend class with him. We have been cleared to work with the other children in the class as well so we see what they are capable of academically. All of these kids are home schooled. I have no idea what methods most of the parents are using, but honestly I'm shocked at their skills or lack thereof. This class is K and 1st grade mixed and only a couple of the kids can actually read and as far as I can tell my son is the only one who is reading beyond CVC words. The writing is...worrisome. Many or most cannot make proper manuscript letters and those who do, do not form them properly. Many do not even know the sounds of the letters. When they ask for help with spelling a word, I will ask them what sound they hear for the first letter of the word and they cannot answer!!

 

For math, my son goes to another classroom which is 1st and 2nd graders and he can easily do all of the math that is presented and surpasses many (he is in kindergarten).

 

Beginning in third grade all of the students are tested and the scores are abysmal. I find this information so interesting because I don't know where else you can see testing stats for home schoolers. (I'm sure it exists, I just don't know where.)

 

Scale: % meeting or exceeding standards

 

Grade 3

Reading

64% (2010)

The state average for Reading was 72% in 2010.

 

Math

36% (2010)

The state average for Math was 62% in 2010.

 

Source: WA OSPI, 2009-2010

 

 

Grade 4

Reading

55% (2010)

The state average for Reading was 67% in 2010.

 

Writing

41% (2010)

The state average for Writing was 61% in 2010.

 

Math

32% (2010)

The state average for Math was 54% in 2010.

Source: WA OSPI, 2009-2010

 

 

Grade 5

Reading

48% (2010)

The state average for Reading was 70% in 2010.

 

Science

13% (2010)

The state average for Science was 34% in 2010.

 

Math

30% (2010)

The state average for Math was 54% in 2010.

Source: WA OSPI, 2009-2010

 

 

Grade 6

Reading

53% (2010)

The state average for Reading was 65% in 2010.

 

Math

40% (2010)

The state average for Math was 52% in 2010.

Source: WA OSPI, 2009-2010

 

 

Grade 7

Reading

40% (2010)

The state average for Reading was 63% in 2010.

 

Writing

p.gifData not available for this school (2010)

The state average for Writing was 70% in 2010.

 

Math

33% (2010)

The state average for Math was 55% in 2010.

 

 

Grade 8

Reading

57% (2010)

The state average for Reading was 69% in 2010.

 

Science

36% (2010)

The state average for Science was 55% in 2010.

 

Math

14% (2010)

The state average for Math was 52% in 2010.

 

 

So by 8th grade only 14% are meeting or exceeding standards in math. Again, I don't know the methods that are being used by these home schoolers, but I do know that many that I talk to at our stage state they are unschoolers and unschooling is very popular in this area. However, what it does show me is that there may actually be a bit too much relaxing going on around here. We're obviously not in that boat because people usually look at me crazy whenever I answer their questions about what we're doing.

 

Just to throw a wrench in these numbers, my oldest dd took the WASL in 5th grade, last year, and didn't meet standard for Reading or Science. She took the CAT just a month or two later, so I could compare, and she got 85th percentile in Reading and 61th percentile in Science with a 97th percentile over all. It could be that the WASL is faulty, or the CAT is super easy (leading homeschoolers who use it to think their child is way above average). :confused: I don't know which, since they don't let you see the WASL. I've seen the CAT and it seems "normal" for grade level stuff. Again, :confused:.

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Just to throw a wrench in these numbers, my oldest dd took the WASL in 5th grade, last year, and didn't meet standard for Reading or Science. She took the CAT just a month or two later, so I could compare, and she got 85th percentile in Reading and 61th percentile in Science with a 97th percentile over all. It could be that the WASL is faulty, or the CAT is super easy (leading homeschoolers who use it to think their child is way above average). :confused: I don't know which, since they don't let you see the WASL. I've seen the CAT and it seems "normal" for grade level stuff. Again, :confused:.

 

The WASL is notorious for being a faulty test.

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Guest Jan Shoop

There are excellent public schools and failing public schools, just like there are great parents homeschooling and inadequate parents homeschooling. I think for an administrator to make a blanket comment like that is unprofessional. Maybe he is feeling threatened by all the parents he meets who are outstanding homeschooling parents.

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Just to throw a wrench in these numbers, my oldest dd took the WASL in 5th grade, last year, and didn't meet standard for Reading or Science. She took the CAT just a month or two later, so I could compare, and she got 85th percentile in Reading and 61th percentile in Science with a 97th percentile over all. It could be that the WASL is faulty, or the CAT is super easy (leading homeschoolers who use it to think their child is way above average). :confused: I don't know which, since they don't let you see the WASL. I've seen the CAT and it seems "normal" for grade level stuff. Again, :confused:.

 

 

This may be true, but don't forget that I spend 2 days per week in the classroom and I can see the skills for myself. There are only a few that I would consider on level or advanced.

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Tell me about your math-literate kids who will almost certainly study calculus in public high school. Tell me about honors English classes that study more than two novels per semester. Tell me about ps students who spell correctly by default on Facebook.

 

I'm willing to believe it all (although I'm more willing to believe proof other than standardized test scores. Show me actual compositions, research papers, and science projects, and then I'll really believe).

 

I just have never seen it for myself.

 

My son is a freshman at our local public school. He'll be taking AP calculus next year (although, to be honest, that's earlier than the norm for our school). His honor's freshman English class has read the following so far this year: Of Mice and Men, To Kill a Mockingbird, A Separate Peace, Fahrenheit 451, Mrs. Warren's Profession, All My Sons, and several short stories. (I might be missing a novel in there, too.)

 

Spelling? :lol: Everyone needs a weakness, right?

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Guest Dulcimeramy
My son is a freshman at our local public school. He'll be taking AP calculus next year (although, to be honest, that's earlier than the norm for our school). His honor's freshman English class has read the following so far this year: Of Mice and Men, To Kill a Mockingbird, A Separate Peace, Fahrenheit 451, Mrs. Warren's Profession, All My Sons, and several short stories. (I might be missing a novel in there, too.)

 

Spelling? :lol: Everyone needs a weakness, right?

 

I wish we had a "like" button. That is great! Thank for posting!

 

It is nice to hear that your school has a freshman Honors English class, and an opportunity for an advanced student to take AP calculus early.

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This will be the 2nd year my children take the VA SOL tests (Standards of Learning).

 

Last year, my oldest DS (who scores in the 99th percentile across the board on the CAT, and anywhere from then 95th to 99th on the ITBS) took the SOL's.

 

There are 3 levels on the SOL. Did Not Pass, Pass and Pass Advanced.

 

5th graders took the following tests:

 

Writing (write to a prompt, no time limit); Find errors in writing (no time limit);

History -- 35 questions covering US history through 1865

Math -- grade level math

Science -- grade science, according to Carroll County standards.

 

He passed the writing

He passed the reading

He passed the math (35 questions)

He passed the science (35 questions)

He did not pass the history. HOWEVER, it makes a big difference when you look at it this way: we covered a slightly different history period AND ds was about 2 months "behind" in the curriculum (we started the VA program about a month later, and were on an 11 month schedule instead of a 9 month schedule, when we signed up we were told it would be "no problem" to school year round...HA!!!).

 

This year, my two oldest will be taking the SOLs. I expect my dd will get "Pass Advanced in reading and math, without issue. She is flying easily through the Math Mammoth end of year test for 5th grade, and she broke the scantron pre-test they gave at the beginning of the year). I have no idea what to expect for history or science.

 

My older son? It's anyone's guess. He likes to do everything FAST. He *may* pass history this year, but I'm not convinced (nor, am I honestly worried). We are on-target to have pretty much all subjects completed by the test time... but I have no idea "what" to prepare for.

 

What has been incredibly frustrating is trying to compact everything into 9months. It has meant less time for investigation. We have had a lot more "mandatory" review sessions, we spend a lot more time just "prepping" for these tests.

 

We are all burned out of this kind of mentality. I will be having my children take the CAT in late June (to put with our LOI), and the ITBS in September (for my records). But, I pretty much know where my kids are weak, and where they are strong.

 

I can also say that, while the composition program with K12 is rigorous, it isn't necessarilly better than some of the other programs. In fact, we are going "backwards" a bit next year... focusing on sentences and paragraphs vs. long papers and creative writing. I will have my kids write in a journal, do narration, and write letters once a week to their grandparents or cousins, or friends... but beyond that, NOPE. My oldest will begin learning proper 5 paragraph essays. He will do one research report for history, and that will be it. He is an "average" writer, and I know he is capable of more... but I need to make sure he has the tools for proper sentences and paragraphs (as well as punctuation and grammar) first.

 

Writing, IME, is like math. It builds upon a solid foundation. One doesn't usually go from learning 3+6 to 347+958 until the concept of carrying has been mastered. Neither should one go from writing a simple sentence to writing a paragraph until the foundations of grammar and punctuation have been laid to support the paragraph.

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This may be true, but don't forget that I spend 2 days per week in the classroom and I can see the skills for myself. There are only a few that I would consider on level or advanced.

 

Which part is true? Is the WASL faulty or is the CAT super easy, or both? I'm very curious since my daughter took both with two totally different results. She's always tested very high, like ninety-something percentile overall on the CAT. She seems "average" to me though, in just sitting next to her and doing work with her.

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Which part is true? Is the WASL faulty or is the CAT super easy, or both? I'm very curious since my daughter took both with two totally different results. She's always tested very high, like ninety-something percentile overall on the CAT. She seems "average" to me though, in just sitting next to her and doing work with her.

 

 

I'm sorry, I'm really not sure! I have not experienced any of the standardized tests with my son yet. However, I do agree that it's likely many tests are filled with biases and are not always the best measure of how much a child knows or how well they are doing academically. I was just making the point that it may be true that the tests are not all that accurate, however I have seen other evidence to support my ideas that many homeschoolers in my area do not seem to be working on rigorous homeschool curricula with their children and may not be doing as well as or better than the PS.

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This may be true, but don't forget that I spend 2 days per week in the classroom and I can see the skills for myself. There are only a few that I would consider on level or advanced.

 

I just read your original post to try to understand what you are saying. What kind of school does your son attend twice a week? A homeschool group in the public school system for remedial needs? I'm confused. Also, are the test scores you posted for this specialized homeschool/public school hybrid compared to all the scores in the state? I'm trying to understand your post. :001_huh: I'm in Washington and I'm also curious about a public school for homeschool kids who meet twice a week. I have never heard of such a thing in Washington, so I'm curious.

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My oldest uses punctuation even in his texts. I don't. I just don't type that quickly.

 

While I do not think SATs and top tier school acceptance tells the whole story, people seem to place great value on these things.

 

Students from my oldest son's public school class of 300 attend:

 

West Point, Yale, Brown, Wellesley, MIT, Duke, Chapel Hill, Columbia, Boston College, Providence College, RISD, Lehigh, Lafayette...along with the more common schools students here lean towards attending: Boston University, Wentworth, Stonehill, Emmanuel, Northeastern, Lesley, Assumption, Ithaca, Simmons, all the MA state schools, URI, UConn, Connecticut College, and yadda yadda yadda. There is also a wealthy population here that is not well- represented in our school: most of those kids attend private prep day and boarding schools. Another anecdote: My teen son's gf is graduating this year, and has been accepted to all of the highly competitive nursing programs to which she applied. That is pretty impressive.

 

(Now, whether a college English teacher (SWB) would consider all of these young people to be good writers...well, that would be another story. William & Mary is not a slacker school, and I don't know why she sees so many students who can't write well. Maybe I'm correct in thinking dyslexia etc is more common than ADD. ;) Do we have any data that shows the average hs'd student to be a better writer than the average public school student? Would the study account for dyslexic ps kids with good study skills who manage to graduate with good grades but still struggle with a 'writing well' challenge? Are we as a society doing all we can for these kids? Are all hsing parents?)

 

We are not a Great School 10. More like 7, which does make sense to me, given our budget. They cut Latin long ago, for instance.

Edited by LibraryLover
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Which part is true? Is the WASL faulty or is the CAT super easy, or both? I'm very curious since my daughter took both with two totally different results. She's always tested very high, like ninety-something percentile overall on the CAT. She seems "average" to me though, in just sitting next to her and doing work with her.

 

What CAT are you using? The CAT/5 or the CAT-E? My experience was that the CAT-E was much easier than the CAT/5. I don't know about the WASL, but I will say that if you look at samples of those tests (FCAT, TAKS, EOG) they are very, very different from the nationally normed standardized tests.

 

I really think I am going to stick with the Woodcock-Johnson or similar test for mine, simply because it gives me much better info than the others.

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What I've noticed is that it seems the young elementary grades push a lot of critical thinking skills and it "seems" the kids are doing much harder work. Then they get to the upper elementary / junior high level and can't move forward as fast as they should because they haven't spent enough time on the facts. One of the reasons my dd was so bored when she tried going back in 5th was because they spent a large part of the day working on mulitplication and division facts. :001_huh: It drove her nuts since she had not only learned how to mulitply and divide but had also memorized those facts in the 3rd grade. She had been able to move on and was now comfortable using those thinking skills. I had pulled her out in 2nd because she was not an "outside of the box" thinker yet and so she started calling herself stupid. I think, at least in our district, that the level of advancement dwindles as they enter junior high and high school.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

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I was just making the point that it may be true that the tests are not all that accurate, however I have seen other evidence to support my ideas that many homeschoolers in my area do not seem to be working on rigorous homeschool curricula with their children and may not be doing as well as or better than the PS.

 

OK, I see your point here. I'm sorry I wasn't sure what point you were making at first. I think it's very easy to let your kids get behind in homeschooling, especially if you frequent the homeschool conferences that heavily focus on family values, etc. They are always saying, "first things first," like the Bible and prayer and character and all that. Academics are on the back burner, it seems, at these family oriented "homeschool" conferences.

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I just read your original post to try to understand what you are saying. What kind of school does your son attend twice a week? A homeschool group in the public school system for remedial needs? I'm confused. Also, are the test scores you posted for this specialized homeschool/public school hybrid compared to all the scores in the state? I'm trying to understand your post. :001_huh: I'm in Washington and I'm also curious about a public school for homeschool kids who meet twice a week. I have never heard of such a thing in Washington, so I'm curious.

 

The school is not for remedial needs. It's a school run by the PS system for home school students. It provides classes two mornings per week which look similar to a regular ps classroom. The school goes from K through 8th grade. In the morning classrooms, they work on reading, writing and math. At this age, they also do circle time, show and tell, and recess. In the afternoons, you can select from various resource classes such as science, state history, computer classes, art, robotics, American History, Spanish, French, chess, and you can also take various music classes such as piano, band, chorus, etc. They have a science fair, school carnival, PTA, ice cream socials...everything you would expect to find at a regular ps, but it's for homeschool kids only.

 

The children are tested each year beginning at the third grade. It's the same test the ps children are given. The test scores that I posted are the scores the children received at this school. They are all homeschool children.

 

The test scores along with my eye witness experience in the class have led me to believe that many of these homeschooled children are not receiving a rigorous education and many/most of the children's skills are not on par with and are below the ps.

Edited by Cindyz
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What CAT are you using? The CAT/5 or the CAT-E? My experience was that the CAT-E was much easier than the CAT/5. I don't know about the WASL, but I will say that if you look at samples of those tests (FCAT, TAKS, EOG) they are very, very different from the nationally normed standardized tests.

 

I really think I am going to stick with the Woodcock-Johnson or similar test for mine, simply because it gives me much better info than the others.

 

It's a CAT/5. At the bottom of last year's test (end of 5th grade), it says, "California Achievement Test - 5th Edition - Level 15 - Complete Battery - Form A." She always gets pretty high scores, so I've always had it in the back of my mind that it might be considered easy. However, I kind of like getting the "high scores," it makes me feel successful, even though I'm most likely doing a moderate job. :confused:

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The school is not for remedial needs. It's a school run by the PS system for home school students. It provides classes two mornings per week which look similar to a regular ps classroom. The school goes from K through 8th grade. In the morning classrooms, they work on reading, writing and math. At this age, they also do circle time, show and tell, and recess. In the afternoons, you can select from various resource classes such as science, state history, computer classes, art, robotics, chess, and you can also take various music classes such as piano, band, chorus, etc. They have a science fair, school carnival, PTA, ice cream socials...everything you would expect to find at a regular ps, but it's for homeschool kids only.

 

I'm not trying to be nosy, but can you tell me or PM me the name of this school? I think it would be really nice for my youngers to get some "PS" type involvement, even though it would not be academically challenging. We could still do challenging the other 3 days a week, and maybe I wouldn't get so burned out if they went somewhere else 2 days per week.

Edited by JenniferB
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I'm not trying to be nosy, but can you tell me or PM me the name of this school? I think it would be really nice for my youngers to get some "PS" type involvement, even though it would not be academically challenging. We could still do challenging the other 3 days a week, and maybe I wouldn't get so burned out if they went somewhere else 2 days per week.

 

sent! :)

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It's a CAT/5. At the bottom of last year's test (end of 5th grade), it says, "California Achievement Test - 5th Edition - Level 15 - Complete Battery - Form A." She always gets pretty high scores, so I've always had it in the back of my mind that it might be considered easy. However, I kind of like getting the "high scores," it makes me feel successful, even though I'm most likely doing a moderate job. :confused:

 

I think you can count on those scores as being compared to the national average. If she scores a 95th percentile, she is scoring better than 95 percent of kids nationally who took that test. The scores have been normed using how every many huge number of kids took the test.

 

When my daughter took the 2nd grade CAT-5, I thought the test was ridiculously simple. It wasn't until we used an entirely different type of test that I realized that my daughter was just achieving at a much higher than average level. If you are used to a bright student, you don't know what average looks like.

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I think you can count on those scores as being compared to the national average. If she scores a 95th percentile, she is scoring better than 95 percent of kids nationally who took that test. The scores have been normed using how every many huge number of kids took the test.

 

When my daughter took the 2nd grade CAT-5, I thought the test was ridiculously simple. It wasn't until we used an entirely different type of test that I realized that my daughter was just achieving at a much higher than average level. If you are used to a bright student, you don't know what average looks like.

 

This is going to sound really weird, but I actually saved some of my school work from 5th grade. When I was looking for pictures to post on Facebook I found one of my reports. It was so much more advanced than what my 5th grader could do last year, and probably this year for that matter, but I wonder if she was in public school would she be expected to do it anyway, and therefore be pushed to achieve it? I remember that report, which is probably why I saved it, and I remember it being extremely difficult to accomplish. Yet, I had to accomplish it, so I did. I always wonder whether homeschooling has held my dd back from her actual potential. FWIW, I'm putting her in half-time b&m middle school next year. So, I will see first hand the difference. The main reason I'm doing it though is because she needs time out of the house, not really for academic reasons. Just blabbing here...sorry.

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