How to nurture Love of Learning & Self-Motivation?

[my2boysteacher]

Let me preface this by saying I'm currently reading "Leadership Education: The Phases of Learning" by Oliver Demille, in which the author gives examples/advice on how to raise children who are self-motivated and possess leadership qualities.

It feels like a science-fiction book to me, as I can NOT envision my boys ever initiating and undertaking anything above what I require of them. :lol:

One of Demille's claims is that you need to 'inspire' and not 'require'.

I am trying to be open minded here, we instituted something new called 'your way Monday', where each boy chooses a book that interests him, reads it, and devises a project to accompany the book. Last week Oldest DS read about castles and made a paper-mache castle. Younger DS read about tornadoes and made a tornado in a bottle. It took a lot of guidance on my part to help them think of a project and plan of attack.

They enjoyed it, but I had a REALLY hard time ditching the curriculum for the day. I am a very solid WTM follower, so I'm struggling to find a balance.

Do you think some children are just more self-motivated, self-seeking by nature, or is it a teaching/parenting thing? Any advice? :tongue_smilie:

[moonlight]

I'd love to hear what others have to say about this...

 

And not to hijack your thread, what other ideas people use...I love the your way Monday idea. I can see us doing it once a month to start with. I already feel like we don't have enough days we are at home. We do some co-ops with other families and we run around a lot...

 

seema

[Ritsumei]

I love your "Your-way Monday" idea! And I don't think it needs to be a complete departure from the WTM method. You'd just need to provide some guidelines on how the book is selected to keep it semi-topical.

 

On the other-hand, one day every so often isn't going to derail the WTM curriculum either, so if they've got a strong interest, you may wish to go with it anyway. And any extra work on the project that doesn't fit into the single day would be a free-time activity... which is a self-starting thing to do, and the whole point of the exercise.

 

Also, keep in mind that this is a new skill you're developing for them AND you: it's going to take time. Don't call it a failure just because they needed a bit of help to get going the first time. And be gentle with yourself too: you're not going to ruin a 12 year education with a few Mondays!

[alexia]

:bigear:

[Rosie_0801]

Do you think some children are just more self-motivated, self-seeking by nature, or is it a teaching/parenting thing? Any advice? :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm quite sure it is both.

 

I used to be a Gumnut Guide (Daisy Scout) leader and we had one batch of girls one year who scared us! They couldn't make noise, they couldn't make mess, they had no initiative and their hair was always tidy!

 

We decided our mission was to teach them to make noise and mess, and by the time we sent them on to brownies, they even had kind of messy hair :) Not like a bird's nest, but messy of the sort that makes them look like they had used their head that day. :)

 

When working on the initiative problem, we usually turned their comments back on to them:

 

"Can I stick this on my picture?"

"I don't mind. It's your picture. Do you want to stick that on?"

"Yes."

"Well then, why are you asking me questions? You 'd better go do it!"

 

It sounds snarky written out like this, and it sometimes was slightly, but they weren't hurt by it. The little sweeties were so obedient that they just stopped and thought about what we said, then ran off to do it. Over time, they realised they weren't going to get anything much else out of us, and stopped asking. I think they were so micromanaged at school and home (and their parents were lovely people, not crazy helicopter parents or anything) that they had no idea what was reasonable and what wasn't; when they could follow their ideas and when they should ask permission. Most kids will learn to deal with different sets of rules in different places, and they learned that at Gumnuts, that mess was good as long as they helped clean up afterwards and that they should ask their own thoughts first- that we would tell them the boundaries, and if we hadn't, they hadn't reached them yet. It was nice to see them chatting. After all, there was rarely a need for half a dozen girls to sit nicely and quietly in an otherwise empty scout hall.

 

The other thing we leaders did was a lot of was sit around doing nothing. One day we were doing a winter/North Pole sort of theme and bought white sheets to decorate the hall as snow. One of the kids had been reading books about igloos and we sat there for 45 mins watching them making "igloos" out of the sheets before it occurred to one of them that Santa lived in the North Pole. That was quickly dismissed as less interesting than igloos. They occupied themselves for the whole session. I can't even remember what it was we had planned, but we didn't do it!

 

Some kids can find something to do out of nothing. Others need the idea and materials provided, and lots of adult guidance/ company. The adult can gradually fade out of the way but in my experience it can take months and months for them to become self sufficient.

 

Not sure if any of that is relevant to your kids, but that's my anecdote for the morning!

 

:)

Rosie

[scrapbabe]

I am reading this book again for the 4th time. I have some thoughts mulling around in my brain, and I'll come back and share when the kiddos aren't distracting me.:D

[Mallory]

While I do wish my kids seemed self motivated and loved to learn the things on my "What my kids need to know" list, they are always making and learning their own things.

 

Need to know what level a pokeman, any pokemon, evolves at-- how about how to make a clay bowl from the clay at the creek-- or where our chickens like to hide thier eggs -- or what the frogs in our pond are up too-- or how to build a bike ramp-- and many other things-- Then ask them. Sure I wish they wanted to spend thier days completing fine art projects and memorizing beautiful poetry and reading their math books for fun, but they do find creating and memorizing and reading fun, I just have to look a little harder to see how they love to learn and are self motivated. ;)

[my2boysteacher]

I am reading this book again for the 4th time. I have some thoughts mulling around in my brain, and I'll come back and share when the kiddos aren't distracting me.:D

 

Okay, I'll wait to hear from you in about.....10 years. :lol:

 

Thanks for your comments everyone. Sometimes I think my expectations are too high, other times I think my boys are half wolf and need to be released back into their natural environment. :D

[woolybear]

I think my boys (ages 8 and 10 also) are the other halves of your wolves.:tongue_smilie:

[nancyb]

I have been wanting to ask that question for some time. Several books I have read suggest scrapping a planned curriculum the first year and let the kids detox from school. I don't think I could have done that for a whole year but I wish we had done it for a month or two. It would have been fun to turn them loose at the library and run with it. I really want our school to be more interest driven. I'll have to add that book to my reading list.

[scrapbabe]

While I do wish my kids seemed self motivated and loved to learn the things on my "What my kids need to know" list, they are always making and learning their own things.

 

Need to know what level a pokeman, any pokemon, evolves at-- how about how to make a clay bowl from the clay at the creek-- or where our chickens like to hide thier eggs -- or what the frogs in our pond are up too-- or how to build a bike ramp-- and many other things-- Then ask them. Sure I wish they wanted to spend thier days completing fine art projects and memorizing beautiful poetry and reading their math books for fun, but they do find creating and memorizing and reading fun, I just have to look a little harder to see how they love to learn and are self motivated. ;)

 

:iagree: I really like this!

[AngelBee]

This is an area that escapes me. Totally! :confused:

[scrapbabe]

Okay, I'll wait to hear from you in about.....10 years. :lol:

 

 

 

:lol: This is true. Maybe I'll try to respond now and you'll have to wade through the absent-mindedness.

 

Well, I can't say I've got a real good handle on the whole love of learning, but I've been reading, semi-trying to promote the ideas in the TJED book. I live near the author and his school and have attended various TJED forums and events. I think what the poster said above about her kids knowing how pokemon evolve and that kind of stuff is a little true. I think they need to experience the love of learning with the things they want to learn. But I also try to throw in things that I want them to learn, but I try to approach it in a style that best fits their own learning style.

 

My oldest is a true blue love of learning child. If I were to say "no school today" I'd find his nose in a book all day long, or he'd be working on some project. Right now that includes writing a book and making stop-motion animated movies. He has joined the 52 books in 2011 challenge here. He just loves to read. But most of that is his personality. With my other two I have to work a little more hard at it.

 

I've been inside some of the top TJED homes (can't think of what else to call them- families who have been applying TJED for a long time) and I guarantee they are learning things. They aren't unschooling by any means.

 

I think the inspire, not require means that we are continuing our education, but we're also sharing the things we love. Like, I love history... so I bring that into our school day, and they enjoy it because I'm excited about it and we're doing it together. Now when I say go work on math and I leave the room...I start to get grumbles.

 

Do they need to learn to do school work on their own? Absolutely. But I really agree with the DeMille's take on how our education system has it backwards. The public schools tend to teach them while they are young and just pile it on, saying that they learn best when they're young. Then when they reach high school the workload decreases and it's all about the clubs and the sports they are involved in. I think kids should be allowed to be kids a little longer and learn and develop naturally at their own pace. When they get to middle school and have had a good love of learning phase, they will start to study more and it won't take long to "catch up".

 

That being said, we do math, writing, grammar and all that stuff that they don't necessarily love. But mostly I try to find things that they enjoy, or approach it in a way that they learn best. Typically if I'm involved they are enjoying it. Sometimes when the grumbling starts I say "tough beans", but that is rarely the case. I don't sit by their side all day long, but we do a lot of things together. Just reading on the couch together is something they enjoy. I'm trying to show them my excitement for learning, so that they learn to model it. It's a process though and takes tons of patience and tons of faith to believe you'll get the desired outcome.

 

I think the ingredients about The Family Room and The Computer Room are essential. Setting up our rooms this way has helped to add to the "learning" atmosphere. But there are so many ingredients, we aren't even close to doing them all. I would just take a couple that really stand out to you, and try them. Then pick a couple of more and try those. It's a hard thing to see "tangibly", especially if you're coming from a strict WTM experience. But, if WTM is what you like and it's working for you, then I would just pick the things you like from TJED and throw them in the mix, and just keep doing what you're doing.

 

Now, did I ramble long enough?:D

[angela in ohio]

My children love to learn and are very self-motivated. I have meesed up a lot of things in my life (and continue to,) but I've got this one down. I can't claim all the credit, though, because my parents set the example first.

 

The biggest thing I want to share is that it is NOT about curriculum or homeschool style. Everyone makes it about whether you unschool, or school in a box, or do classical. That's not it. I know people with all different types of homeschool styles, and there is no correlation.

 

A thirst for knowledge, an internal drive to learn about the world, comes from a family culture that respects, models, and expects it.

 

We help our children develop personal interests outside of the normal school work that I require. I want them to know that learning is what people do, and it's not just because it's a school thing or what homeschoolers do. We provide the money and time to help them, but we expect them to make use of their own time well. It seems odd, but by dividing up lessons and free time, we have created more of an environment of learning in our home.

 

Yes, I do think it's a teaching/parenting thing. I think that because I have worked and sacrificed really, really, really hard over many years to get where we are. It didn't come naturally to my dc; it was a model we set and they learned. I think their nature determines how much work it will take the parent (it took much more work with my middle, for example,) but not whether they will be self-motivated and love learning at all.

 

Anyway, all this as a plea to say that you don't have to ditch the curriculum to have a love of learning. There are plenty of people with creative, curious young adults who have raised them with a rigorous classical education. My dc do all sorts of projects, but they do them in their free time. They also have the skills necessary to do better things (programming, blowing things up, science experiments, writing poetry, etc.) because of what they have learned in their school work.

[2squared]

While I do wish my kids seemed self motivated and loved to learn the things on my "What my kids need to know" list, they are always making and learning their own things.

 

Need to know what level a pokeman, any pokemon, evolves at-- how about how to make a clay bowl from the clay at the creek-- or where our chickens like to hide thier eggs -- or what the frogs in our pond are up too-- or how to build a bike ramp-- and many other things-- Then ask them. Sure I wish they wanted to spend thier days completing fine art projects and memorizing beautiful poetry and reading their math books for fun, but they do find creating and memorizing and reading fun, I just have to look a little harder to see how they love to learn and are self motivated. ;)

 

:iagree: I love this! I give my kids (and I know they are still young) tons of free play, unstructured time b/c they fill it with learning on their terms. We watched Tarzan the other night, and they have been playing gorilla for two days straight. They made themselves into a little pod of gorillas who carry their babies on their backs and make nests for sleeping. The boys have been pretend fighting cheetahs and other threats. With a little supplemental reading, they will have learned and internalized more about gorillas than I could have gotten into them in a structured science lesson.

 

I often see myself as their learning facilitator. I teach them the basics, expose them to ideas and content, and get out of their way.

[Tress]

My children love to learn and are very self-motivated. I have meesed up a lot of things in my life (and continue to,) but I've got this one down. I can't claim all the credit, though, because my parents set the example first.

 

The biggest thing I want to share is that it is NOT about curriculum or homeschool style. Everyone makes it about whether you unschool, or school in a box, or do classical. That's not it. I know people with all different types of homeschool styles, and there is no correlation.

 

A thirst for knowledge, an internal drive to learn about the world, comes from a family culture that respects, models, and expects it.

 

We help our children develop personal interests outside of the normal school

work that I require. I want them to know that learning is what people do, and it's not just because it's a school thing or what homeschoolers do. We provide the money and time to help them, but we expect them to make use of their own time well. It seems odd, but by dividing up lessons and free time, we have created more of an environment of learning in our home.

 

Yes, I do think it's a teaching/parenting thing. I think that because I have worked and sacrificed really, really, really hard over many years to get where we are. It didn't come naturally to my dc; it was a model we set and they

learned. I think their nature determines how much work it will take the parent (it took much more work with my middle, for example,) but not whether they will be self-motivated and love learning at all.

 

Anyway, all this as a plea to say that you don't have to ditch the curriculum to have a love of learning. There are plenty of people with creative, curious young adults who have raised them with a rigorous classical education. My dc do all sorts of projects, but they do them in their free time. They also have the skills necessary to do better things (programming, blowing things up, science experiments, writing poetry, etc.) because of what they have learned in their school work.

 

:iagree: and it is something I work very hard on modeling. I think I'm doing quiet well now, but my dc are still very young..so nothing is certain yet.

 

Oh, how I wish we were neighbours, Angela, I would love to come over and ask you all sorts of questions.

[my2boysteacher]

:lol: This is true. Maybe I'll try to respond now and you'll have to wade through the absent-mindedness.

 

Well, I can't say I've got a real good handle on the whole love of learning, but I've been reading, semi-trying to promote the ideas in the TJED book. I live near the author and his school and have attended various TJED forums and events. I think what the poster said above about her kids knowing how pokemon evolve and that kind of stuff is a little true. I think they need to experience the love of learning with the things they want to learn. But I also try to throw in things that I want them to learn, but I try to approach it in a style that best fits their own learning style.

 

My oldest is a true blue love of learning child. If I were to say "no school today" I'd find his nose in a book all day long, or he'd be working on some project. Right now that includes writing a book and making stop-motion animated movies. He has joined the 52 books in 2011 challenge here. He just loves to read. But most of that is his personality. With my other two I have to work a little more hard at it.

This is exactly how I was growing up, and still am. I LOVE to read and am always trying to learn. DH gets frustrated because I always have my nose in a book when he is trying to speak with me. I do agree that a lot of that is innate, and not taught/learned.

 

I think the inspire, not require means that we are continuing our education, but we're also sharing the things we love. Like, I love history... so I bring that into our school day, and they enjoy it because I'm excited about it and we're doing it together. Now when I say go work on math and I leave the room...I start to get grumbles.

I think this is an area I need to work on--bringing my excitement to the table as an example for my children. It just seems I get so caught up on disciplining and maintaining some semblance of order....(see an example of a typical day on my blog :D)

 

Do they need to learn to do school work on their own? Absolutely. But I really agree with the DeMille's take on how our education system has it backwards. The public schools tend to teach them while they are young and just pile it on, saying that they learn best when they're young. Then when they reach high school the workload decreases and it's all about the clubs and the sports they are involved in. I think kids should be allowed to be kids a little longer and learn and develop naturally at their own pace. When they get to middle school and have had a good love of learning phase, they will start to study more and it won't take long to "catch up".

I couldn't agree more!

 

 

I think the ingredients about The Family Room and The Computer Room are essential. Setting up our rooms this way has helped to add to the "learning" atmosphere. But there are so many ingredients, we aren't even close to doing them all. I would just take a couple that really stand out to you, and try them. Then pick a couple of more and try those. It's a hard thing to see "tangibly", especially if you're coming from a strict WTM experience. But, if WTM is what you like and it's working for you, then I would just pick the things you like from TJED and throw them in the mix, and just keep doing what you're doing.

I have not read about the Family Room and Computer Room yet, but will try to get to that info today.

 

Now, did I ramble long enough?:D

 

 

Thanks so much for responding! You gave me a lot to think about. :grouphug:

[scrapbabe]

My children love to learn and are very self-motivated. I have meesed up a lot of things in my life (and continue to,) but I've got this one down. I can't claim all the credit, though, because my parents set the example first.

 

The biggest thing I want to share is that it is NOT about curriculum or homeschool style. Everyone makes it about whether you unschool, or school in a box, or do classical. That's not it. I know people with all different types of homeschool styles, and there is no correlation.

 

A thirst for knowledge, an internal drive to learn about the world, comes from a family culture that respects, models, and expects it.

 

We help our children develop personal interests outside of the normal school work that I require. I want them to know that learning is what people do, and it's not just because it's a school thing or what homeschoolers do. We provide the money and time to help them, but we expect them to make use of their own time well. It seems odd, but by dividing up lessons and free time, we have created more of an environment of learning in our home.

 

Yes, I do think it's a teaching/parenting thing. I think that because I have worked and sacrificed really, really, really hard over many years to get where we are. It didn't come naturally to my dc; it was a model we set and they learned. I think their nature determines how much work it will take the parent (it took much more work with my middle, for example,) but not whether they will be self-motivated and love learning at all.

 

Anyway, all this as a plea to say that you don't have to ditch the curriculum to have a love of learning. There are plenty of people with creative, curious young adults who have raised them with a rigorous classical education. My dc do all sorts of projects, but they do them in their free time. They also have the skills necessary to do better things (programming, blowing things up, science experiments, writing poetry, etc.) because of what they have learned in their school work.

 

:iagree: So glad you shared this! It doesn't come natural to me to "learn" in my free time. My parents didn't model that for me (although they were great parents). I am always trying to better myself and let my kids see me learning. But I have to work at it. I think allowing your kids time to get bored is important too. Don't let the screen (tv, video games, etc) occupy their time...when they are good and bored they find things to learn and projects to do. But this is one I'm continuing to work on too.

[lisamarie]

You must have listened to Rachel speak via the HECOA summit.:D I have been thinking about this for the last few days myself after listening to her speak. I read the TJed book back in the fall and a lot of it really resonated with me. I would love for my kids to be leaders. To be self educated. To love learning. To really want to spend 10 hours a day studying when they are in high school.

 

Looking at what I've got right now--1 kid who will do all his work with minimal complaining, does like to read, will do projects, but only when I "assign" it. 1 kid who daily asks to drop out of PS-K and not so she can homeschool but because she doesn't want to do ANY school, who wants to be a taco maker when she grows up because she wouldn't have to goto college in order to do that. And 1 kid who is yet TBD.

 

It's a really big leap to imagine these kids I have now growing up to be TJed poster children. But you have to start somewhere. So I have the 3 main TJed books on hold at the library so I can read through them again. I have been working my way through the classics, most of which I have never read. I am plugging away at the math books I have in the house to brush up on my math skills. I am working to find more exciting literature for my DS to read--he is really enjoying Robinson Crusoe right now.

 

I am also taking a bit of what I learned here http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sanjoy/benezet/1.html and am focusing more on having my DS tell me stories about anything and everything. I have started telling my kids stories that continue every night before bed. (We are currently on a deserted island in the middle of Lake Michigan and we have a pet Elephant named Eli:lol:) I have decided to ditch my DD5's math text almost completely and am instead doing drills and learning orally which she is much happier with. I look in her text and see what she needs to learn next and then slip it into normal conversation. When my DS is doing his assigned reading, I sit on the other couch and have my prayer time or read a book at the same time so he sees me reading and studying.

 

It hit me listening to Rachel speak that my DS will be hitting the Love of Learning phase next year. I don't feel ready for this phase yet at all. Getting him from doing only what I assign to actually wanting to learn is something I haven't figured out yet.

[SailorMom]

For my boys - I first had to find what they loved on their own when they were young... Dinosaurs? Ok - we'll learn about them for a month. Caves? Let's go find some books at the library!

We did not use textbooks until after 6th grade (other than for math). Textbooks suck the fun out of learning. We only used real books, websites, movies, etc.

While my sons don't beg to do math - they are independent and love to do research. They enjoy most of the subjects they are in (although ds13 HATES writing).

Oh - they also read, read, read. A book a week minimum. Some I chose, some they chose.

[my2boysteacher]

You must have listened to Rachel speak via the HECOA summit.:D I have been thinking about this for the last few days myself after listening to her speak. I read the TJed book back in the fall and a lot of it really resonated with me. I would love for my kids to be leaders. To be self educated. To love learning. To really want to spend 10 hours a day studying when they are in high school.

 

Looking at what I've got right now--1 kid who will do all his work with minimal complaining, does like to read, will do projects, but only when I "assign" it. 1 kid who daily asks to drop out of PS-K and not so she can homeschool but because she doesn't want to do ANY school, who wants to be a taco maker when she grows up because she wouldn't have to goto college in order to do that. And 1 kid who is yet TBD.

 

It's a really big leap to imagine these kids I have now growing up to be TJed poster children. But you have to start somewhere. So I have the 3 main TJed books on hold at the library so I can read through them again. I have been working my way through the classics, most of which I have never read. I am plugging away at the math books I have in the house to brush up on my math skills. I am working to find more exciting literature for my DS to read--he is really enjoying Robinson Crusoe right now.

 

I am also taking a bit of what I learned here http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sanjoy/benezet/1.html and am focusing more on having my DS tell me stories about anything and everything. I have started telling my kids stories that continue every night before bed. (We are currently on a deserted island in the middle of Lake Michigan and we have a pet Elephant named Eli:lol:) I have decided to ditch my DD5's math text almost completely and am instead doing drills and learning orally which she is much happier with. I look in her text and see what she needs to learn next and then slip it into normal conversation. When my DS is doing his assigned reading, I sit on the other couch and have my prayer time or read a book at the same time so he sees me reading and studying.

 

It hit me listening to Rachel speak that my DS will be hitting the Love of Learning phase next year. I don't feel ready for this phase yet at all. Getting him from doing only what I assign to actually wanting to learn is something I haven't figured out yet.

 

Thanks for sharing that link, and your experiences. I really enjoyed the article. More to think about. :001_smile:

[lisamarie]

I know this sounds basic to most of you, but to me after rereading some of the TJed stuff I have no idea how I missed this part, but actually reading the same books that I have my kids read so we can discuss them. Usually with DS, I check out a bunch of books from the library and say, Here, go read this book, and then that's the end of it.

 

I read the first 2 chapters of Robinson Crusoe to my kids and when the girls seemed uninterested, I had my DS use it for his silent reading. I finished reading it myself so I could discuss it with him. At the end, I asked him what his favorite part was and he said when Robinson taught Friday how to survive. I asked him specifically what skills he would like to learn and he said growing his own food and shooting. Well, the shooting is out since we don't own a gun, but I said that we could get books from the library on gardening and read them together over the winter. Then in the spring, he can have one of our garden sections for his own and he can plant his own garden. He seemed very excited about that.

 

From here I will check out books on gardening and ask DS what he wants to grow so we can become experts on those plants. I will have him draw up a plan for his garden space--how much room he has, what plants he will grow, the spacing needed, etc. Then I will have him take full responsibility for the care of his plot--tilling (with my help), amending the soil, planting, watering, weeding, checking for diseases, etc. This will also go in hand with teaching some of those Core phase values.

[Mallory]

:iagree:

 

This is the kind of things my boys have no problem doing. They always have things growing, they built the coop and got chickens (we gave them a budget, they did the work), they are always working on their survival skills or building skills.

 

But still I wish they wanted to work out geometry proofs, or memorize war dates, or write stories. :glare: It is still often hard to find the value in the things they love to do and learn about (although the 7 eggs we got today were nice!, not quite as excited about the fighting dummies they built next to the coop ast weekend :tongue_smilie:)

[Mommybostic]

On the Peace Hill Press website, you can get a mp3 download of a lecture that SWB did called "Teaching Students to Work Independently." I think it has a lot of neat little tips. Just a thought.

[angela in ohio]

One more thing to add...

 

Sometimes the best way to get a child to do something by themselves is to start doing it with them and then remove yourself gradually. I always did this with my toddlers and preschoolers, and I quit for a while, but then realized what I was missing. I would try to have dc get interested in an activity, but I wouldn't model it myself.

 

Now it is my favorite technique. Even at 14 yo, my dd still wants to do what I do. :001_smile:

[scrapbabe]

One more thing to add...

 

Sometimes the best way to get a child to do something by themselves is to start doing it with them and then remove yourself gradually. I always did this with my toddlers and preschoolers, and I quit for a while, but then realized what I was missing. I would try to have dc get interested in an activity, but I wouldn't model it myself.

 

Now it is my favorite technique. Even at 14 yo, my dd still wants to do what I do. :001_smile:

 

:iagree: I am so loving this thread.