Taking Notes on Teaching Company Lectures

[Hunter]

I just purchased the audio download of The Old Testament to supplement my SOW studies in Genesis. I want to SERIOUSLY tackle note taking. This course provides an outline of the lecture, so I'd like to concentrate on the best way to take notes when given an outline, by an organized lecturer.

 

Later on I want to tackle how to take notes on a lecture that is disorganized and entered cold turkey without any prep, but not now.

 

I'm willing to spend up to 3 hours preparing for the lecture, taking notes on the lecture, and processing the notes, if need be. I want to practice the ultimate note taking scenario.

[regentrude]

If you already HAVE an outline, all you need is add little bits and pieces to it. That's what our students do for courses for which they get lecture notes ahead of time.

Some of the TC lectures have very detailed outlines- for the Vandiver lectures, the outlines were so detailed that there was nothing to write down in addition to it.

 

What do you mean by "ultimate note taking scenario"?

[Hunter]

 

What do you mean by "ultimate note taking scenario"?

 

I don't exactly know :-)

 

Other than sermons and listening to a few Teaching Company lectures I have no experience in note taking other than a few disorganized scribbles in high school.

 

But when a student wants to REALLY understand the material in a lecture of this type, what is the best plan of action?

[regentrude]

But when a student wants to REALLY understand the material in a lecture of this type, what is the best plan of action?

 

Don't know you lectures. We listened to 36 lectures about Homeric epics and Greek tragedy during the Fall and believe we DID really understand them. For us, it was important to have done the reading before the lectures - so we read the epics and tragedies before listening. We did not take any notes, however; the stuff just made sense.

 

So, in order to understand your OT lectures, I guess you should read the relevant OT section that is to be discussed prior to listening to the lecture.

Plus any other reading selections that have been recommended by the professor.

[Colleen in NS]

 

But when a student wants to REALLY understand the material in a lecture of this type, what is the best plan of action?

 

What about supplementing the outline as you listen, as regentrude suggests, putting the outline/notes aside for a day, and then writing a composition from your outline/notes, putting everything in your own words?

[Corraleno]

You can try using the Cornell System to organize your notes.

 

Jackie

[Hunter]

Okay, so skim the outline, before listening, and make sure I am properly prepared for the lecture.

 

Then use the cornell system to take notes and write a summary.

 

Is there a way to paste the outlines into a cornell worksheet?

[StephanieZ]

Honestly, I found that listening attentively to lectures, along with concise, careful notes of the *most important* things from the lecture was the most effective study method in college & grad school. Learning to actually *pay attention* to the lectures was the most important thing. . . Excessive note taking can distract you from *listening*.

 

So, I'd suggest aiming for:

 

1) Spend a few minutes to review the outline of the lecture in advance (comparable to skimming the text or reading it). Try to identify the handful of most important ideas/concepts/topics.

 

2) If the outline is provided, just follow the outline, making brief notes as to important ideas/examples/etc that aren't included in the outline. (If it's a great outline, you might not need to take very many additional notes. You could test yourself by occasionally listening to a lecture w/o the outline, taking notes, then comparing yours to the outline!)

 

3) I'd aim for 2-3 pages of concise notes per 1 hour lecture. If you're taking much more notes than that, you are transcribing, not note taking.

 

4) Use some standard outline format as much as possible. Use key words only. Do not write entire sentences.

 

An example of the importance of effective *listening* and concise note taking: By the time by dh got to vet school (after college, 3 yrs MS, 2 yrs towards a PhD), he was such a good *listener* and note taker (identifying the most important points and not getting distracted by blah, blah, blahs) that he rarely needed his text books, could study for a few (2-4) hours prior to each exam, and graduated cum laude while working half time, helping to raise a growing family, taking care of home/farm/land/needy wife, commuting 30 min each way to school. In fact, he bought only maybe 20% of the texts (most of those his first year), using the others just briefly at the library before some exams. Other students crammed for hours, bought all the texts, didn't work, didn't have family/kids, and still got much poorer grades than dh. . . Dh is crazy smart, but he was also a *very* effective listener.

[EKS]

I have to say that I don't think that TC lectures are a good way to practice note taking. They move too quickly. In a normal lecture situation (at least pre-PowerPoint), the instructor would pause to write whatever was important on the blackboard. Even in a PowerPoint situation, there is a bit more time to write things down.

 

I tried to get my son to practice note taking using TC lectures but very quickly realized that it was too much. He has some learning disabilities though, so YMMV.

Edited January 16, 2011 by EKS

[Hunter]

Googling "cornell" brought up "5 R notetaking" which has been quite helpful.

 

Okay...so...TC moves fast...but I have an outline, so won't need to write down much during the lectures themselves.

 

To prepare for the lecture I need to:

read

write down questions

 

After the lecture I need to:

*Put the outline/notes in to my own words

*Reduce notes into as few words as possible

*memorize my reduced notes. Make flashcards if necessary.

*Put what I have learned into context of what else I know

*organize what I have learned into a written summary

 

Have I left anything out?

[flyingiguana]

I have to say that I don't think that TC lectures are a way to practice note taking. They move too quickly. In a normal lecture situation (at least pre-PowerPoint), the instructor would pause to write whatever was important on the blackboard. Even in a PowerPoint situation, there is a bit more time to write things down.

 

I tried to get my son to practice note taking using TC lectures but very quickly realized that it was too much. He has some learning disabilities though, so YMMV.

 

I think you're right about this. The TC lectures aren't presented in a way that is all that effective for note taking. They aren't really designed for that. But if one were in a college class where the professor wanted to convey something important, it would be obvious what you were supposed to write down.

 

I don't find taking notes from a sermon to be all that easy either. They tend to ramble (least the ones I hear).

[Tammyla]

The Teaching Company's

 

High School Level—How to Become a SuperStar Student

 

Taught By Professor Tim McGee, Ph.D., Trinity College,

Worland High School, Worland, Wyoming

 

This was an excellent resource for my dd.

[regentrude]

*memorize my reduced notes. Make flashcards if necessary.

 

 

Call me a heretic, but why would you want to memorize your notes?

For many topics, understanding is sufficient and more important than a memorization of every detail.

I understand that you are self-educating and are not taking these courses to pass some test, but to broaden your education. In that case, I would see memorization of every detail as a waste of time - understand and retain key concepts, put things into perspective, but don't cram... these will be forgotten anyway.

 

For example: When we studied Homeric epics in the Fall, we used the lectures to better understand the context, the interpretation of the epic in the framework of that time's values etc. THAT was the important message.

We could go on an memorize exactly who did what to whom - but that is only relevant in a school setting when you have to take quizzes. The important things we *understood* and hence will retain them long term.

 

(And when you study physics, don't memorize ANYthing for Heaven's sake ;-)

[Hunter]

I'm using this course to PRACTICE good note taking. I cannot imagine taking ANY course that included 24 lectures and outside work that did not include ANYTHING worth memorizing, or at least reviewing enough to stick in the short term memory well enough, that the basics of it stuck in my long term memory.

[regentrude]

I cannot imagine taking ANY course that included 24 lectures and outside work that did not include ANYTHING worth memorizing, or at least reviewing enough to stick in the short term memory well enough, that the basics of it stuck in my long term memory.

 

I am coming from a different field where the students attend sixty lectures a semester and are not required to memorize a single fact - because it is sufficient to understand the material (through lectures and homework), and then it is committed to long term memory. A student who needs to cram for my class and put things into his short term memory has not understood what is going on.

It would be the same thing in math: there is nothing to memorize about math (aside from maybe the times tables)- only to understand, because everything can easily be derived again from scratch once the principle has been understood.

 

I guess I approach humanities lectures with a similar mindset: if the professor explains about the values of the ancient Greeks and that makes me understand Achilles' behavior, that understanding cements the fact in my long-term memory and I don't need a flash card. I can reconstruct the arguments based on the premises that have been explained and do not need to memorize the chain of thought. Does that make sense?

[Colleen in NS]

I just purchased the audio download of The Old Testament

 

But when a student wants to REALLY understand the material in a lecture of this type, what is the best plan of action?

 

I have to say that I don't think that TC lectures are a good way to practice note taking. They move too quickly. In a normal lecture situation (at least pre-PowerPoint), the instructor would pause to write whatever was important on the blackboard. Even in a PowerPoint situation, there is a bit more time to write things down.

 

The TC lectures aren't presented in a way that is all that effective for note taking.

 

I'm using this course to PRACTICE good note taking.

 

I guess I approach humanities lectures with a similar mindset: if the professor explains about the values of the ancient Greeks and that makes me understand Achilles' behavior, that understanding cements the fact in my long-term memory

 

I'm confused about why some think that the TC lectures aren't suited for notetaking. I'll admit that I don't bother to take notes on something that seems to me to be a disarray of information, but I don't think TC lectures are like that. They do seem to follow a thread with presenting ideas or principles. And in my mind, I separate lectures that are more of a "how to do something" from lectures that are more ideas-focused. But even with ideas-focused lectures, if I were taking notes, I'd still write down the ideas that stuck out to me, no matter what they are. Just because they stick out to me - and the very act of writing them down helps cement them in my brain. I guess I see it as sort of like the advice given for reading, in TWEM book - read through (or listen through), taking notes on what strikes you as interesting or important. Afterwards, assemble those notes into another form (your own table of contents for a book, or outline for a lecture, or summary of a lecture), so that your brain has another chance to cycle through it and make more connections.

 

Anyway, that's how my brain works, and it's interesting to me to see how others' brains work.

 

Hunter, good luck with your study!

[EKS]

I'm confused about why some think that the TC lectures aren't suited for notetaking.

 

They aren't suited for *learning* note taking skills because most of them move *much* more quickly than a normal lecture. Now, they might be good to use a challenge after one learns note taking elsewhere.

[Hunter]

Today, I'm going to print the outline and prepare for the lecture. and Tomorrow I will listen to the lecture and attempt to take notes. I'll let you all know how it goes.

[flyingiguana]

In a college lecture, the professor usually takes time with certain things that they want the students to really get -- they will say the thing a number of times and probably write it down on the board (or on handouts). This is supposed to cue the students: *this is important* and *write it down* and *learn it for the test*.

 

These cues aren't happening in the TC lectures. Generally, the lecturers are telling stories, which is also an effective way to get info across, but it doesn't really lend itself to easy notetaking. If the TC lectures used the method described above, I'm not sure they'd be so popular with people who just want to hear the information. There would be a lot of what would seem to be unnecessary repetition. There is a certain amount of repetition in the TC lectures (certain themes, ideas, information keep popping up because they're important), but it isn't presented in quite the same, in your face, you need to know this style.

 

There's nothing wrong with the TC lectures for approaching things this way, but it does make traditional notetaking a lot more difficult. In fact, I think if I tried to take notes, I would start to miss important information that came while I was writing the last thing down.

 

Also, if I decided to take notes I think I would quickly decide it wasn't worth the trouble because the notes that come with the lectures are more organized than what I could get down while the speaker is talking.

 

Interestingly, one does occasionally run across professors who actually tell students NOT to take notes because it tends to interfere with thinking about the material and discussing it. For those professors, the act of thinking about the material during class seems more important than getting the info down to memorize later.

[Guest]

Again, we are working on our first set of Teaching Company lectures, but the ones we have (history) are brilliantly laid out for easy note-taking. The lecturer lays out at the beginning the main points he will be covering. When he enters into his main discussion of each point, he repeats the phrases he used in the introductory preview; it's auditorily as clear as if he wrote it on the board or could put bullet points in the air beside his words. At the end, he sums up again and previews the next lecture.

 

He does tell a lot of stories, but their purpose in illustrating a particular point in his argument or the cause-and-effect narrative is always clear.

[Colleen in NS]

They aren't suited for *learning* note taking skills

 

OK, this makes sense to me now. I can see how you'd think this, if a lecture was fast-moving.

 

These cues aren't happening in the TC lectures. Generally, the lecturers are telling stories....information keep popping up because they're important), but it isn't presented in quite the same, in your face, you need to know this style.

 

I guess it depends on the lecture. We are watching some astronomy and chemistry lectures currently, and I find that the chem. ones esp. are repetitive - it *does* seem to me that the professor is trying to get certain points across, by repeating in different ways. And, the ones we are watching are probably nothing like the ones Hunter was asking about. So, I'll end here. :D

[Julie in MN]

the most effective study method in college & grad school. Learning to actually *pay attention* to the lectures was the most important thing. . . Excessive note taking can distract you

See, this is a hot button for me. I dont believe there's one "most effective" method for everyone

 

I take a lot of notes and I can't tell you how many folks have actually stopped speaking in order to tell me to stop taking notes. Yet, I learn almost 100% through writing, so someone telling me not to take notes is telling me not to learn. I dont necessarily even read my notes ever again, but I must write. If someone sends me home with pre-printed notes, then I must go home and start over, reading them and adding in whole thoughts in my own writing.

 

I personally think that your goal right now should be to figure out how *you* learn best. I doubt whether anyone else's system will work exactly the same for you.

 

But asking for lots of ideas, and trying lots of ideas, and even trying to use some you're not good at (in case younger an instructor who restricts you) are great ways to spend your high school years.

 

Julie

Edited January 17, 2011 by Julie in MN

[Tullia]

See, this is a hot button for me. I dont believe there's one "most effective" method for everyone

 

I take a lot of notes and I can't tell you how many folks have actually stopped speaking in order to tell me to stop taking notes. Yet, I learn almost 100% through writing, so someone telling me not to take notes is telling me not to learn. I dont necessarily even read my notes ever again, but I must write. If someone sends me home with pre-printed notes, then I must go home and start over, reading them and adding in whole thoughts in my own writing.

 

I personally think that your goal right now should be to figure out how *you* learn best. I doubt whether anyone else's system will work exactly the same for you.

 

But asking for lots of ideas, and trying lots of ideas, and even trying to use some you're not good at (in case younger an instructor who restricts you) are great ways to spend your high school years.

 

Julie

 

:iagree: There's no right or wrong method.

 

My own written notes are an absolute mess visually--they're cryptic to anyone but me since I use my own version of shorthand and symbols and they're often non-linear because I have to insert what's being said into my own context--but my system works for me. I've always been happy to lend notes, but for some reason no one ever asked a second time ;).

 

To throw another idea into the mix; IEW's Advanced Communications Skills teaches some strategies that my son says have worked for for him in science classes.

 

We took notes on some of the TC lectures for practice, but usually just listened/watched.

[Hunter]

I printed the lecture 1 outline and studied it.

 

In the past, when listening to sermons, I found that preachers who handed out outlines, preached differently than those who did not. Those using outlines covered more material and repeated themselves less. They expected the congregation to use the outline as a tool.

 

I feel like I'm prepared to listen to the audio tomorrow, and just fill in a very few notes.

 

Topic 3.A isn't totally clear to me. This is any area I will pay special attention to in the lecture and will attempt to rewrite in my own words. I placed a star next to it.

 

In the future, I want to tackle a totally different type of lecture, where the lecturer is totally winging his speech and doesn't have an outline even for himself. But not now. I want to try out different techniques on different types of lectures. I want a toolbag full of different tools I have mastered.

 

I want to find the best tool to use for TC lectures first. I don't believe I will never be faced with this type of lecture in school and in real life, in the future. I live in the city and sometimes have the opportunity to hear lecturers for free. The few I have managed to be organized enough to attend, I didn't take full advantage of. I scribbled a few notes...but I saw others immediately adjust to the type of lecture and start taking very organized looking notes. I want to be able to do that.

 

The lecture on urban weeds was presented with a powerpoint presentation and he didn't repeat himself at all and moved really fast. I think we did have an outline. I didn't know to quickly read the outline and start forming questions in my mind to look for the answers of in the lecture. I did look over my outline and notes afterwards, but had no plan of attack. I have forgotten it all and lost the notes. I have his book, but wish I had REAL notes from the lecture.

[EKS]

I guess it depends on the lecture. We are watching some astronomy and chemistry lectures currently, and I find that the chem. ones esp. are repetitive - it *does* seem to me that the professor is trying to get certain points across, by repeating in different ways. And, the ones we are watching are probably nothing like the ones Hunter was asking about. So, I'll end here. :D

 

Yes, I agree about the chemistry lectures--they seem to be made specifically for note taking, which is why they seem to move so incredibly slowly.

[Nan in Mass]

Hunter - I found a good study site for you (well, for me but I thought you might like it GRIN).

 

 

This is a good place to start:

http://www.bucks.edu/~specpop/Lrnprfil.htm

 

And I found this particularly helpful for what I am trying to do (teach mine how to manage a class - one is great at discussions but flunks tests):

http://www.bucks.edu/~specpop/Elabqst.htm

 

I also particularly liked:

http://www.bucks.edu/~specpop/interpss.htm

and

http://www.bucks.edu/~specpop/annotate.htm

and of course the Cornell notes stuff.

 

This is rather interesting to explore, too.

http://www.bucks.edu/~specpop/Actfrm.htm#assess

 

-Nan

[Hunter]

Nan,

 

Nice!!!! I'm still going through the links...but...I can see this is really good stuff :-) Just what I'm looking for :-)

 

I got distracted and forgot to listen to my lecture yesterday. Sigh! I've really got to work on scheduling too. I think that website included help on that. I learned lots about lichens and looked at homemaking curriculums and I don't remember what else, but missed my primary goal for the day, of listening to the lecture :-0