what is this pre-algebra of which you speak?

[redsquirrel]

My eldest child is a 5th grader. I know we have one more year of Singapore ahead of us.

 

So, if my kid is let's say bright-average in math, is 7th grade pre-algebra? Is it 8th? Is it a seperate subject?

 

I live in NY and we didn't have a specific subject called 'pre-algebra". The NY math cycle looks like this:

9: algebra

10 geometry

11 trig

12 calc.

There is a regent's exam for all of these...or there was when I was in high school..a million years ago :001_huh:

 

So, when did I get taught pre-algebra? What is covered?

 

I don't even know enough about this to know what to ask. I don't know how to evaluate a program. I am guessing I will stick with Singapore. That has worked very well for us. I know they have a newish program, discovery math, that is a little easier to teach than NEM. But I am also considering teaching textbooks.

 

So, anyway, any help understanding what comes after 6th grade math and what I need to worry about would be helpful. Did I just ask for advice about what to worry about? Oh brother.

[regentrude]

My eldest child is a 5th grader. I know we have one more year of Singapore ahead of us.

So, if my kid is let's say bright-average in math, is 7th grade pre-algebra? Is it 8th? Is it a seperate subject?

 

Pre-algebra is a stupid name IMO. It sums up the math skills required to be successful in algebra and consists to a large part of arithmetic with fractions - with the assumption is that arithmetic with integers (addition, subtraction, multiplication and division) has been taught before.

The following things would typically be grouped as pre-algebra: arithmetic with fractions, percent and decimals; ratios, negative integers, exponents and radicals. Some include a little bit of geometry, an intro about functions, unit conversions.

I am not sure what your math program does for 6th grade that could NOT be pre-algebra.

[Corraleno]

Many elementary math programs stop at 6th grade, and students may not be ready for algebra in 7th, so prealgebra serves as a "bridge" to algebra. Your child may or may not need it, depending on (1) what their elementary math program covered and (2) whether they're ready for algebra. Most prealgebra programs will review arithmetic, especially fractions/decimals/percents, as well as covering negative numbers, graphing/functions, and simple equations.

 

Jackie

[AngieW in Texas]

My oldest finished Singapore 6B in 5th grade, did prealgebra at ps in 6th, did a course called "algebra" at ps in 7th (but was actually "how to use a graphing calculator"), and did algebra for real at home with me in 8th grade.

 

My middle dd finished SIngapore 6B in 6th grade, worked through Math Smart Junior over the summer, and then started Jacobs Algebra and Kinetic Books Algebra I in 7th grade. I planned for her to spend two years in algebra since she was starting in 7th grade and is very young for her grade (birthday one month after the cutoff). She didn't have any problems moving from 6B to algebra.

 

My youngest dropped out of Singapore after 5B. We worked through most of the Key to Fractions, Decimals, and Percents books. She's working in MUS Prealgebra right now. I like it mainly for the systematic review pages. I plan for her to do algebra next year in 8th grade.

[Samiam]

Pre-Algebra is basically a Math parking lot.

 

If you match up the table of contents for 7th grade math and Algebra and then take it to a PreAlgebra curriculum, you will see that Pre-Algebra essentially covers the 2nd half of 7th grade math and the beginning of Algebra.

 

That's fine if a student needs that review and basic intro.

 

My son didn't so we skipped Pre-Alge and went straight to Algebra. The thing is, most Algebra curriculums will spend the first several lessons reviewing Algebraic information, so if he didn't know it already, he got it from that informatoin.

[Blossom'sGirl]

I am from NY also and took the regents exams many years ago. I find Pre-Algebra to be a time to really polish basic math skills and be prepared for Algebra.

 

Here is a link to recent NYS Regent Exams.http://www.nysedregents.org/

[MomsintheGarden]

Pre-Algebra is basically a Math parking lot.

 

If you match up the table of contents for 7th grade math and Algebra and then take it to a PreAlgebra curriculum, you will see that Pre-Algebra essentially covers the 2nd half of 7th grade math and the beginning of Algebra.

 

That's fine if a student needs that review and basic intro.

 

My son didn't so we skipped Pre-Alge and went straight to Algebra. The thing is, most Algebra curriculums will spend the first several lessons reviewing Algebraic information, so if he didn't know it already, he got it from that informatoin.

:iagree:

I totally agree with this. My three oldest skipped pre-algebra, transitioning from elementary math books to Algebra I. My oldest ds used MUS elementary (the old Foundations, etc.), then did Bob Jones Alg. I. My next did ABeka through Arithmetic 6. She got 1/4 of the way through Arithmetic 7, and we realized it was almost exactly the same as the 6th grade book, so she started CD Algebra I. The third went straight from Arithmetic 6 to CD Algebra I.

 

About a month ago I was visiting a friend whose son was partway through Saxon 8/7 and was bored with it. I lent him CD Algebra I; he's doing fine with it and happy to be out of the math parking lot.

 

Every student is different. Yours may not be ready. We are a fairly math/science oriented family, so my advice may be skewed.

 

If you think your student is able to skip prealgebra, I recommend:

 

1. Spend a little time comparing the scope and sequence of your current arithmetic book with your intended algebra I program. Also learn what's in the prealgebra book by the same publisher. Here are the topics covered in CD Prealgebra:

http://www.chalkdust.com/prealgouttrad.html

And Algebra I:

http://www.chalkdust.com/algoneoutnew.html

2. Be prepared to spend a little extra time on introducing new concepts at the beginning of the book, especially if it is in a different format. My students must transition from the workbook style of ABeka to the DVD + text + write on your own paper format of CD.

3. Approach Algebra I with an attitude of enthusiasm, and work to hide any feelings of trepidation.

4. Faithfully keep up with checking your student's work, so you can nip any conceptual problems before they get out of hand. This is probably the most important piece of advice.

5. Make sure your student knows and understands how to show his work for partial credit.

6. Train him to be extra careful about signs (+/-), absolute value, and greater than/less than (> and <). Those little things seem to give the algebra I student the greatest trouble (ok, they can be problems in calculus, too, but it's good to learn to be careful from the beginning!).

 

HTH,

GardenMom

[redsquirrel]

Can I just give you all a big logic stage forum kiss?

 

I have a much better idea of what is going on now.

 

Ok, my guess is that my son will need a bit of time to make the jump to algebra. Well, that might be incorrect. I think he will need a gentle start. I think that is a better way of thinking about it. And really thank you for the warning to take time to transition to a different format and the 'little' things to watch for. My son is a 'wordy' kid, not so much a math kid. He's not bad at math, but he has to put in the work. With many other subject, he hardly has to work.

 

I am really hoping I can stay with Singapore.

 

I am thinking that I need to just keep on truckin' with 5th grade math but spend some time this summer doing research.

 

If any one else has insight on the mysterious world of 7th and 8th grade math, please chime in!

[Matryoshka]

Ok, my guess is that my son will need a bit of time to make the jump to algebra. Well, that might be incorrect. I think he will need a gentle start. I think that is a better way of thinking about it. And really thank you for the warning to take time to transition to a different format and the 'little' things to watch for. My son is a 'wordy' kid, not so much a math kid. He's not bad at math, but he has to put in the work. With many other subject, he hardly has to work.

 

I am really hoping I can stay with Singapore.

 

 

If you really want to stay with Singapore, I'm using Singapore's Discovering Mathematics 1 as pre-Algebra for one of my dds - she'll do Algebra with a different program next year (which will be 8th grade).

 

For my less-mathy dd, I'm using Lial's - they have two Pre-Algebra programs; Basic College Mathematics (BCM) and Pre-Algebra. We started with the former and are switching to the latter. I just posted the TOC of both on this thread, if you want an idea of what they cover.

[8filltheheart]

 

I live in NY and we didn't have a specific subject called 'pre-algebra". The NY math cycle looks like this:

9: algebra

10 geometry

11 trig

12 calc.

There is a regent's exam for all of these...or there was when I was in high .

 

You have received lots of great replies to your question. I just wanted to point out that the sequence you have listed here is atypical of most high school students today.

 

The typical sequence is more along the lines of algebra, geometry, algebra 2, trig/precal, cal. Since alg 2 is yr long course, most students taking cal in 12th started with alg in 8th.

[redsquirrel]

yes, NY has changed the titles to

algebra

geometry

algebra 2/trig

Math B

 

My husband says that part of geometry and part of trig were always 'Algebra 2" so they haven't changed the courses, just the titles. He looked at the tests and says it is all the same stuff. I think "Math B" sounds ominus.

 

I didn't take math past geometry. I am not kidding that my guidance counselor told me that their had been a request from the math dept. that I not take any more math. :lol:

 

I think it makes me an excellent elementary arithmetic teacher. You cannot lie to me! I can tell if you don't understand something well. There is no trick I cannot spot. However, it has made me a little leery of teaching at that level.

[AngieW in Texas]

I had two teachers in college beg me to drop their classes.

 

My raquetball teacher was afraid to pair me with anyone but her and she was scared for her life to be in the same room with me. Raquetball courts aren't very big and I was (and still am) very uncoordinated.

 

My drafting teacher also begged me to drop his class. His exact words were very similar to "I can tell you are trying your best, but I've never before seen anybody who couldn't draw a straight line with a drafting table and a T-square. In all honesty, a 'D' would be a gift."

 

In both cases I hoped that the class would improve my abilities, but neither one did. I was a horrible menace in raquetball and my drawing never improved in drafting. My girls generally passed me up in drawing skill by 5yo.

[Capt_Uhura]

 

My drafting teacher also begged me to drop his class. His exact words were very similar to "I can tell you are trying your best, but I've never before seen anybody who couldn't draw a straight line with a drafting table and a T-square. In all honesty, a 'D' would be a gift."

 

 

All I can say to that is, OH MY!!!!! Thanks for the laugh at 7:20AM! Love it! Thank you for sharing that!

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Pre-Algebra introduces your child to variables and negatives and then makes the child work with them for a whole year. Some children need to feel comfortable with variables, it is sort of freaky for them to see a problem they thought now with variables all over them or with a negative number they have to work with. In Abeks and BJU. up through 7th grade you might get some variable work or negative work but it is just an introduction. In Pre-Algebra they are working with variables and negative numbers the entire year, so much that by the time they get to Algebra, negative numbers will be as familiar as positive numbers to them and wont cause mistakes.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Down_the_Rabbit_Hole

[Crimson Wife]

If you took algebra I in 9th, then probably whatever you had in 8th grade was pre-algebra. Typically it covers things like negative, irrational, and imaginary numbers; exponents and roots; factorization; lots of order of operations work; co-ordinate graphing; some geometry and elementary trig; and solving simple algebraic expressions. You can download a good list here (they're the topics covered in the EPGY Pre-Algebra course).

[Tammyla]

Way back when I was in middle school, pre-algebra was 8th grade math.

 

In some programs it's a nice (optional) course for students not ready for algebra 1.

[Susan in KY]

Ok, my guess is that my son will need a bit of time to make the jump to algebra. Well, that might be incorrect. I think he will need a gentle start. I think that is a better way of thinking about it. And really thank you for the warning to take time to transition to a different format and the 'little' things to watch for. My son is a 'wordy' kid, not so much a math kid. He's not bad at math, but he has to put in the work. With many other subject, he hardly has to work.

 

I could have written your post, word-for-word, about my ds. He is also in Singapore 5, with one year left. We have had a difficult semester with Singapore 5A, mostly because of carelessness. He "gets" math, but he doesn't always do well. During the 5A Mid-Year Assessment from the IP, he looked at me for one problem with a totally blank face and said, "Is 5.09x1000 50900?" Grr. On the following page, he got a complicated word problem perfect without writing down one single thing. He goes up and down like that.

 

At any rate, we decided to try LOF fractions and see if it works any better for him. If it does, I am leaning towards going with LOF and supplementing with Khan Academy until he's ready for Algebra. I think that Algebra definitely requires a certain amount of brain development before it "clicks," and I am willing to mark time until that happens. I've pushed and pushed with math since he was little. He can do it, but it's not a love of his. Hopefully LOF will do the trick for him.

[Angie in VA]

My drafting teacher also begged me to drop his class. His exact words were very similar to "I can tell you are trying your best, but I've never before seen anybody who couldn't draw a straight line with a drafting table and a T-square. In all honesty, a 'D' would be a gift."

 

 

Hi, Angie. I like your name. :)

 

My mother took a college course and went to see her grade on the final exam posted outside her professor's door. She saw "D--" by her name. She asked her friend who was checking her grade too, "What is a D minus, minus?" She heard the professor say, "A gift!"

 

A gift indeed.

[Sunshine State Sue]

I had two teachers in college beg me to drop their classes.

 

My raquetball teacher was afraid to pair me with anyone but her and she was scared for her life to be in the same room with me. Raquetball courts aren't very big and I was (and still am) very uncoordinated.

 

My drafting teacher also begged me to drop his class. His exact words were very similar to "I can tell you are trying your best, but I've never before seen anybody who couldn't draw a straight line with a drafting table and a T-square. In all honesty, a 'D' would be a gift."

 

:lol: I would think that we were twins except that wild horses couldn't have dragged me into those classes.