Comprehension and notetaking with textbooks...

[PeterPan]

Do you or your dc do anything particular when they read textbooks? Do you underline, write notes, draw pictures, etc.? If you see pictures when you read (ie. you're a visual processor), I'm particuarly interested in what you do. I'm trying to develop skills in my dd for her to be able to read a textbook well, even one she doesn't like, and I'm sort of at a loss.

 

Thanks!

[Susan C.]

We did a little of just making little charts. So and so was king/ruler, this war happened, this country won, this/these battles were the most important. This president/these amendments/treaties/this war/these inventions/these artists/these writers/etc. Stack them in groups. Write as you read. Timelines with these help a lot as well. Our literature text has this and it helps. It is clumping the facts together with a common factor that helps kids retain it.

[regentrude]

My DD takes notes, not in complete sentences but in fragments. She uses color, bullets, underlining of her notes as a visual aid to structuring.

For important complicated figures that she feels should be part of her notes she uses the copier and pastes them in.

Sometimes she takes notes while she reads for the first time; other things she reads first and then takes notes while she re-reads.

When a student reads a science text, it is important to not just read the example problems, but to work them through, following with paper and pencil every line of the example (something that will be very valuable once she gets to college)

Edited December 10, 2010 by regentrude

[Ester Maria]

A bit of everything, I guess.

 

One of my daughters is quite visual and mental maps work for her - her "notes" are often a mess of pictures/signs, arrows and keywords organized around a specific topic. As long as she can "read" that, good.

 

The other one is not so creative and is a lot more verbal thinker - her notes are usually made by writing out (mostly in her own words) important things in reduced chunks, and then writing keywords on the margins of the notes, so that she can quickly skim the notes more easily. I used to take such notes in university too.

 

With regards to how to read a textbook, both of them find helpful things such as underlining / highlighting / marking a vertical line next to the important passage, as well as marking unclear parts of text.

 

I also find, for textbook-subjects, clear A4 papers to be a better option than notebooks, since they can be tucked in relevant parts of the textbook or tied to it, thus making the organization somewhat more compact - but that's very individual.

[PeterPan]

I'm realizing there's a corollary question to this: what is a typical PACE for reading a textbook? Like is it normal to read a paragraph and then stop, mull, then start into the next one? It has been SO long since I've done any of this, and I'm thinking maybe I've forgotten some things.

[Susan C.]

 

I also find, for textbook-subjects, clear A4 papers to be a better option than notebooks, since they can be tucked in relevant parts of the textbook or tied to it, thus making the organization somewhat more compact - but that's very individual.

 

Please elaborate on this. Is this a clear paper you insert into each page so you can put your notes, underline, etc. w/o writing in the text? We are somewhat opposed to writing in books (especially the ones I will be selling), plus there just isn't enough room anyway!

[Ester Maria]

Please elaborate on this. Is this a clear paper you insert into each page so you can put your notes, underline, etc. w/o writing in the text? We are somewhat opposed to writing in books (especially the ones I will be selling), plus there just isn't enough room anyway!

The length of notes depends on the type of text, but generally, for each "organic unit" of the text (say a dozen pages or even twenty), you make notes which suit you the best - on a single paper, or more papers, depending whether you prefer them compact or more elaborate - then clip them together into the book, into that unit (usually at the beginning, so those notes also serve to divide the textbook into units). When you go over your work, you essentially go over your notes, key concepts, and if you can reconstruct the whole thing from the notes, there is no need to go back to the text. If you notice something is unclear, or you're unable to follow your notes (note-taking also takes a while to learn!), you go back to the text and edit notes if needed.

 

Of course, all of that can be done in a notebook too, and maybe some people would prefer the format of the notebook if they find note-inserting into the textbook too messy. We combine both, notebooks are maybe better for scientific subjects (which require problem solving, etc.) and inserted notes for things such as history.

[regentrude]

I'm realizing there's a corollary question to this: what is a typical PACE for reading a textbook? Like is it normal to read a paragraph and then stop, mull, then start into the next one? It has been SO long since I've done any of this, and I'm thinking maybe I've forgotten some things.

 

That, of course, depends entirely on the textbook!

Our history text (Short history of Western Civ) is well written, easy to read, consecutive text, no distractive boxes or pictures - you can read a whole sections (1-2 pages) in one sitting before having to pause.

 

Our physics text has sections that led to an equation, boxes with worked examples, graphs - each of those need to be dealt with separately (unfortunately it is virtually impossible to find a physics text that has so good consecutive writing as the history book.)

 

Our math text is not to be read at all - it is all problems to be worked through with pen and pencil - there is hardly any actual text.

[PeterPan]

Thanks regentrude, that makes a lot of sense! Love all the tips!!!

[Nan in Mass]

This can take ffffooorrreeeeeeevvvvveeeeerrrrrr when they are learning how to do it.

With my youngest (and boy do I wish I had done it with my older one), we use a timer. His "real" schoolwork is not textbook based, or is based on a textbook that is on a lower level and more visually oriented (so he doesn't need to take notes), but in order to prepare for college classes, I have been having him work with some higher level textbooks. This is working really well!

 

We do this:

-Set the timer for half or three-quarters of an hour.

-Turn every page of the chapter and look at it. (about 5 seconds)

-Go back to the beginning and read the objectives, all the headings, all the captions, all the vocabulary words, and take a look at what sorts of questions are being asked at the end of each section and at the end of the chapter. (a few minutes)

-Go back to the beginning and begin a quick read-through. Keep reading even if you don't really understand it. (probably the rest of the first session) Mark each paragraph in the margin with what it contains:

intro (introduces a topic)

def (defines a term)

expl (explaination)

process (explains a process)

ex (example)

etc.

-Go back to the beginning and read again, this time figuring it all out and taking notes. Mine have to do four kinds of notes:

underline the topic sentence

make a tree or spider or an informal outline

make diagrams of any processes

make timelines

 

This all takes forever at the beginning. Mine began by being able to do about a paragraph every fifteen minutes. Unless the child can do it fast and easily, though, they won't be able to handle college work. Make sure they understand that the idea is to get fast at doing this.

 

I don't think it matters whether the student does a spider diagram (bubbles with writing or pictures in them) or tree, or whether they do an outline. A tree or a spider is just a visual form of an outline.

 

HTH

-Nan

[Musicmom]

Thanks for sharing this, Nan! I'm going to try it with my dd. :001_smile:

[regentrude]

Unless the child can do it fast and easily, though, they won't be able to handle college work.

 

This is not true. The process you described certainly works - but it is not the only way and not necessary for college success.

 

I made it through a graduate degree without EVER doing all those things you have your kids do (and non of my friends did either). I just read from the beginning and took notes while doing this and worked the problems.

 

So, your method certainly produces success - but if a student reads differently, he is not automatically doomed to failure.

[mom31257]

:lurk5:

[PeterPan]

This is not true. The process you described certainly works - but it is not the only way and not necessary for college success.

 

I made it through a graduate degree without EVER doing all those things you have your kids do (and non of my friends did either). I just read from the beginning and took notes while doing this and worked the problems.

 

So, your method certainly produces success - but if a student reads differently, he is not automatically doomed to failure.

 

Regentrude, Nan's boys are like my girl, where you and I are more alike. Yes, that whole thing was unnecessary for me, as those skills came naturally. But to my dd they DON'T come naturally. I desperately appreciate Nan taking the time to type out all that!!

[regentrude]

I did not mean to criticize Nan's method! I merely wanted to reassure parents who do not make their kids do these elaborate things that it is perfectly possible for those kids to succeed at college as well - if they learn to read a text in a different way.

[Nan in Mass]

Sorry - reading and taking notes is what I meant by "this". I just outlined one way to read and take notes. There are lots of them. By sitting through 5 or 6 hours of class, 180 days a year, for 4 years (high school), I developped my own method. My children haven't had to do that, so I worked out a way that works for them. I didn't really know how I "read and took notes" and I had to do a bit of work to figure out what I did and why on earth my children couldn't do it. It turned out that mine needed a method like this, and that the reading went much faster if they skimmed it a few times first. If the material is easy, my children can just straight read it. I just had to find a way for them to read and take notes and really absorb and notice something like a harder science text.

-Nan

[LunaLee]

If you were so inclined, you might want to see if you can get a copy of How to Study in College http://www.amazon.com/Study-College-Seventh-Walter-Pauk/dp/0618046720/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292130666&sr=8-1.

 

It covers using Cornell Notes for lecture and textbook and also the SQ3R method. It's more than taking notes however, and has valuable information for time management and reading & listening skills. I'm reading through it and helping dd apply it to her science & history texts. We just started this year so the jury is still out on how it is working for her, but it might be a good resource for you.

Edited December 12, 2010 by LunaLee

[PeterPan]

Thanks Luna! Turns out my library has this. What a good find! :)

 

BTW, the BJU elementary curriculum teaches the SQ3R method. It so mystified me I skipped it. Now I'll be able to read about it and judge it differently.

[LunaLee]

You're welcome, I'm glad your library had it.:D