We have been listening to Sophie's World

[Jyniffrec]

and my 11 yo dd and 9yo ds are glued to it! Someone on these boards recommended it as a good introduction to philosophy and, so far, I wholeheartedly agree! It thrills me to hear them joining in adult discussions about the Greek philosophers and their ideas and it gives me real hope that we will be able to read the original writings with interest and success. :001_smile:

[Capt_Uhura]

Thanks for the post! Looks interesting and I don't think I've ever seen it mentioned before.

[Leonor]

Sophie's World is a great resource.

 

How have you been listening to it? Where did you get it as an audiobook?

 

You just gave me a great idea. One of my ds has read it. The other one would probably do well listening to it.

[Capt_Uhura]

I just checked my library has it in audio.

[mcconnellboys]

I believe there's an online study guide for it somewhere, too.

 

I thought at one point that I would use it, but after reading it myself, I felt it completely broke down in the end and I became disillusioned....

[Gratia271]

Philosophy was one of my my two majors in college, and I think this is an excellent intro for young people. We acquired our audio from audible.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Gratia271

[Gratia271]

I believe there's an online study guide for it somewhere, too.

 

It is here, and it is a great resource. Don't miss the ancillary readings that are recommended there.

[Jyniffrec]

We got ours from audible as well. I will have a look at the resources.

[Jyniffrec]

I believe there's an online study guide for it somewhere, too.

 

I thought at one point that I would use it, but after reading it myself, I felt it completely broke down in the end and I became disillusioned....

 

Do you mind sharing what happens or will it spoil the book?

[Jyniffrec]

Sophie's World is a great resource.

 

How have you been listening to it? Where did you get it as an audiobook?

 

You just gave me a great idea. One of my ds has read it. The other one would probably do well listening to it.

 

My ds 9 is very much a listener but isn't good at reading many books himself. He can read and reads well when he wants to. I think it is an issue of lack of interest (mostly in fiction). I get many of our books on audible for this reason. With 3 children in different stages and trying to educate classically I could get bogged down very quickly trying to read everything to them myself.

[Matryoshka]

Oh my, is it on audio? I bought the book, but I've been wondering how we'd ever get to it. My kids are all really auditory learners, so this would be a great way to get it done! Also, I think it would engender a lot more discussion, because we'd all be listening at the same time, so we could stop and discuss right when we hear it!

 

Thanks for the link to the online study guide!

 

I hadn't thought of doing this with them quite yet, they're 12 and almost 10. Maybe I should move it ahead on the schedule? On audio, maybe we could get to this next year at least...

[Jyniffrec]

Oh my, is it on audio? I bought the book, but I've been wondering how we'd ever get to it. My kids are all really auditory learners, so this would be a great way to get it done! Also, I think it would engender a lot more discussion, because we'd all be listening at the same time, so we could stop and discuss right when we hear it!

 

Thanks for the link to the online study guide!

 

I hadn't thought of doing this with them quite yet, they're 12 and almost 10. Maybe I should move it ahead on the schedule? On audio, maybe we could get to this next year at least...

 

It is on audible but it is pretty expensive unless you use a credit, which is what I did. My dd11 is at the perfect time to listen to it. She is demanding more serious answers to serious questions. This seems to sate her appetite just a little bit and I think she likes the fact that Sophie demands so much mentally from her mother. I like it, too, because it takes the pressure off of me a little! ;)

[Ester Maria]

Sophie's World is perfect for late elementary / lower middle school introductions to philosophy. I'm not overly fond of it, but it really works for that age group. Glad to see your kids like it and it works for them too. :)

[Jyniffrec]

Sophie's World is perfect for late elementary / lower middle school introductions to philosophy. I'm not overly fond of it, but it really works for that age group. Glad to see your kids like it and it works for them too. :)

 

What don't you like about it, Ester Maria?

[Matryoshka]

It is on audible but it is pretty expensive unless you use a credit, which is what I did. My dd11 is at the perfect time to listen to it. She is demanding more serious answers to serious questions. This seems to sate her appetite just a little bit and I think she likes the fact that Sophie demands so much mentally from her mother. I like it, too, because it takes the pressure off of me a little! ;)

 

Is audible some kind of download place? I don't have an mp3 player (yes, I'm a dinosaur), can one just download it onto their computer and burn a disc? How much is it?

 

ETA: Never mind - I can ILL the audio book!! :hurray:

Edited December 9, 2010 by matroyshka

[Gratia271]

Oh my, is it on audio? I bought the book, but I've been wondering how we'd ever get to it. My kids are all really auditory learners, so this would be a great way to get it done! Also, I think it would engender a lot more discussion, because we'd all be listening at the same time, so we could stop and discuss right when we hear it!

 

Thanks for the link to the online study guide!

 

I hadn't thought of doing this with them quite yet, they're 12 and almost 10. Maybe I should move it ahead on the schedule? On audio, maybe we could get to this next year at least...

 

It is a gentle introduction to philosophical inquiry and study and is completely accessible to younger students. The narrative format really piqued the interest of some young students I worked with last year. Without this avenue, many of them would likely have been turned off to philosophical inquiry, at least at that juncture in their studies. If you have a background in philosophy (as I do), you can proceed with selections/excerpts from the originals, but that may or may not work well with younger students. My *goal* is to pique their interest so that they will pursue the original works. I have derived so much gratification from my studies, and I foremost want my students to love this pursuit as well. In any case, SW has been an effective avenue to this end.

[MamaT]

All four of my oldest children have read SW in middle school and loved it. It sparked some interesting discussions. Our family loves to play the SW board game, too. It is made by Orion. It would make a great Christmas gift for your dc that really like the book.

[Ester Maria]

What don't you like about it, Ester Maria?

As a novel with some philosophical content it's fine; as a "proxy" for learning philosophy it's not as it lacks the actual text. It's pretty much a retelling of the basic history of philosophy - but not more than that. I'd never use it to teach philosophy, for example.

[mcconnellboys]

Well, I was pre-reading it before using it with my son and I decided not to use it. I know that you're already into it, so I really don't mean to spoil it for you. Maybe you will have a different take on the ending than I did. I really don't want to spoil it for you, or taint it, either. Maybe my take on it was wrong. After you've read it, I would be interested in hearing your take on it....

[redsquirrel]

I enjoyed reading it years ago. I had already taken several philosophy classes (general and political) and found the book a lot of fun. I had never considered it for the middle years. I thought of it more as a high school aged introduction to the topic but that was before I had kids, lol.

[swimmermom3]

Sophie's World is perfect for late elementary / lower middle school introductions to philosophy. I'm not overly fond of it, but it really works for that age group. Glad to see your kids like it and it works for them too. :)

 

Sophie's World is a book I would be careful to not too quickly assign to a particular grade. It's wonderful that children as young as 10 and 11 find the philosophical concepts presented to be easily understandable, but please also be aware that the book is often used as summer reading for AP Lang./Lit courses.

 

Ester Maria, do you place the writing at the late elementary / lower middle school stage? That, I would agree with, as to my mind, the writing is simplistic. I wasn't sure if some spark had been lost in translation. We are currently in the middle of the book. My 12th grader is enjoying it it's entirety, especially the philosophy because she has never studied it. The 7th grader thinks the story is trite and would prefer to Magee's Story of Philosophy on his own. So, mixed reviews here, but it works as a read aloud and impetus for discussion.

[Jyniffrec]

Well, I was pre-reading it before using it with my son and I decided not to use it. I know that you're already into it, so I really don't mean to spoil it for you. Maybe you will have a different take on the ending than I did. I really don't want to spoil it for you, or taint it, either. Maybe my take on it was wrong. After you've read it, I would be interested in hearing your take on it....

 

I sure will Regena! I look forward to discussing it after we finish. I've heard this about the ending before. We are still way more than 8 hours of audio away and that is only the first part! :001_huh:

[Wildiris]

:banghead::banghead:

Audio, of course. Why didn't I think of that??? I have the book on my shelf, but DD~13 doesn't want to read it. Hearing it might just push her into reading or re-reading the book.

 

Thanks for your post.

[Susie in CA]

I am so glad about this thread! My ds11 has recently had all sorts of questions about the world we live in. On top of that I found that my library carries it. We'll be listening to it after the holidays. Thanks everyone.

 

Susie

[Ester Maria]

Sophie's World is a book I would be careful to not too quickly assign to a particular grade. It's wonderful that children as young as 10 and 11 find the philosophical concepts presented to be easily understandable, but please also be aware that the book is often used as summer reading for AP Lang./Lit courses.

 

Ester Maria, do you place the writing at the late elementary / lower middle school stage? That, I would agree with, as to my mind, the writing is simplistic. I wasn't sure if some spark had been lost in translation. We are currently in the middle of the book. My 12th grader is enjoying it it's entirety, especially the philosophy because she has never studied it. The 7th grader thinks the story is trite and would prefer to Magee's Story of Philosophy on his own. So, mixed reviews here, but it works as a read aloud and impetus for discussion.

I'm not "assigning" it to a particular age - I'm commenting on the OP's children's ages, based on the experiences with my own (and not only my own) children and on the accessibility of the work for even quite young readers. I wouldn't goup it with the AP readings, though. This is if we're talking about it as literature.

 

If we're talking about it as philosophy, again, it's a very decent introduction for very young readers, but I wouldn't use it as an introduction to philosophy during high school years, or even upper middle school (in the context of a formal philosophy class, which needs to be based on original writings rather than just general historical context).

[mcconnellboys]

It's probably that I'm just an old fuddy-duddy. There's not much about existentialism that I like and so when I got to the last section of the book, it just seemed chaotic and meaningless to me and I tend to reject that....

[Gratia271]

It's probably that I'm just an old fuddy-duddy. There's not much about existentialism that I like and so when I got to the last section of the book, it just seemed chaotic and meaningless to me and I tend to reject that....

 

 

I agree that the ending was unremarkable/flat, but I think the book has significant value overall.

[Jyniffrec]

So where does one go from here? What would be a good next step for a logic stage child?

[mcconnellboys]

I liked the rest of the book so much that I felt really, really let down by the ending and it just didn't seem like it would be a great intro for my son. There are some philosophy for children books out now.

 

This is an online website that I've looked at before. It teaches philosophy using various children's books....

 

http://www.teachingchildrenphilosophy.org/wiki/Main_Page

 

And here's another that I have not looked through:

 

http://www.philosophyforkids.com/introduction.shtml

 

I've used this book and like it:

 

http://www.prufrock.com/productdetails.cfm?pc=123

 

And here's one I haven't used yet that looks good:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Rocks-Stephen-Law/dp/0786816996

 

Here's another I've used and liked:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Young-Persons-Guide-Philosophy-Jeremy/dp/0789430746

 

And have you seen this one, about Socrates?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Wise-Guy-Life-Philosophy-Socrates/dp/0374312494

 

This is the book I use for me. It's old, so I don't know how readily available it is:

 

An Introduction to Greek Philosophy, J. V. Luce. It's not comprehensive, of course....

 

http://www.bookfinder.com/dir/i/Introduction_to_Greek_Philosophy/0500276552/

[Jyniffrec]

I liked the rest of the book so much that I felt really, really let down by the ending and it just didn't seem like it would be a great intro for my son. There are some philosophy for children books out now.

 

This is an online website that I've looked at before. It teaches philosophy using various children's books....

 

http://www.teachingchildrenphilosophy.org/wiki/Main_Page

 

And here's another that I have not looked through:

 

http://www.philosophyforkids.com/introduction.shtml

 

I've used this book and like it:

 

http://www.prufrock.com/productdetails.cfm?pc=123

 

And here's one I haven't used yet that looks good:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Rocks-Stephen-Law/dp/0786816996

 

Here's another I've used and liked:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Young-Persons-Guide-Philosophy-Jeremy/dp/0789430746

 

And have you seen this one, about Socrates?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Wise-Guy-Life-Philosophy-Socrates/dp/0374312494

 

This is the book I use for me. It's old, so I don't know how readily available it is:

 

An Introduction to Greek Philosophy, J. V. Luce. It's not comprehensive, of course....

 

http://www.bookfinder.com/dir/i/Introduction_to_Greek_Philosophy/0500276552/

 

Wow, Regena! Thank you! I had seen a couple of these but not most of them and I didn't know that Philosophy for Kids is available in an ebook format. It isn't available on amazon in Kindle format.

 

That being said, are any of these just repeating what is discussed in Sophie's World? Are there any that we should skip over if we have read Sophie's World already?

[mcconnellboys]

Well, SW does a pretty general outline of philosophy, but I don't know if it covers every idea of every philosopher over time. It's been a few years since I read it, so I'd have to go through it and compare it side by side with the others to see if there's someone covered in one but not the other.

 

The other book (YP's Guide) is going to present the philosophical ideas in a single page or two page spread for each philosopher covered, as is typical for DK books. The Luce book is an adult book and so is more detailed, although I find the explanations very clear and easy to understand, which is why I love it.

 

The Teaching Children Philosophy website takes various children's stories and examines how they deal with a variety of philosophical questions, so it is a different sort of study than the perspective of Sophie's World. The P for Kids book also covers various philosophical questions, but as I recall it does include info about the different philosophical schools of thought, too. Is the website the same as the book? I didn't know that, if so.... I haven't really looked around at the website....

[Jyniffrec]

I will probably end up getting them all so I will be able to have a look. We have an amazing bookstore near us that seems to have every book you can think of float in and out of there eventually. I'll just have to keep my eyes open. Especially for Wise Guy; the cheapest one on Amazon is $36!

[mcconnellboys]

Oh my! Most of these are at my library. Don't you have a good library system where you live? Or what about a Half Price Books? I find lots of cheap books there.... I hope you can find them inexpensively....

[Jyniffrec]

I am freaky about libraries because I have had several bad experiences with them. I find that just buying the books at McKays is cheaper and less stressful. I can resell and at a profit most of the time anyway. There is no way that book would be so expensive at our bookstore so I'll just wait it out. We don't have Half Price Books here but I always pop in when I'm in Cincinnati just to see what they have.

[mcconnellboys]

Oh! McKay's is that bookstore on Papermill? I went there the last time we were in town for a swim meet. It was crazy busy! I don't think I've ever been to a bookstore that was so busy, LOL....

[Jyniffrec]

Lol, yes that is the one in Knoxville. We go to the one in Chattanooga. I grew up around Knoxville. The Knoxville McKays has books that a classical educator would be interested in for a lot cheaper than in Chattanooga. I guess they tailor prices to the demand in the particular area the stores are in. There is also one in Nashville but I haven't been there.

[swimmermom3]

Jennifer, we are using the Philosophy for Kids book that Regena mentioned for supplemental work to go with Sophie's World.My ds has enjoyed tackling the questions. We'll just pick one of interest that goes with the philosopher being covered in Sophie's World. We are also finding this chart to be helpful in keeping the information organized.

[Jyniffrec]

Jennifer, we are using the Philosophy for Kids book that Regena mentioned for supplemental work to go with Sophie's World.My ds has enjoyed tackling the questions. We'll just pick one of interest that goes with the philosopher being covered in Sophie's World. We are also finding this chart to be helpful in keeping the information organized.

 

I think I am going to buy Philosophy for Kids and use that chart. The range of philosophers that is covered in Sophie's World has become overwhelming. Thank you for sharing, Lisa!

[Gratia271]

If anyone is interested, I can send a chart I constructed that delineates the philosopher/movement in relation to their positions on metaphysics, epistemology, and ethics. I had my students take notes on this chart based on their readings.

[Jyniffrec]

If anyone is interested, I can send a chart I constructed that delineates the philosopher/movement in relation to their positions on metaphysics, epistemology, and ethics. I had my students take notes on this chart based on their readings.

 

I would!

[Gratia271]

I would!

 

I pm'd you.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

..

[mcconnellboys]

I would love this, too! And thank you for sharing,

[swimmermom3]

If anyone is interested, I can send a chart I constructed that delineates the philosopher/movement in relation to their positions on metaphysics, epistemology, and ethics. I had my students take notes on this chart based on their readings.

 

Please! I will pm you and thank you for sharing this. We just finished Descartes and my head is spinning a bit.

 

Although this is a "school" book, the kids have voted to continue reading this over the holidays. Those of you with audio versions are smart. The 1100 pages of reading aloud between this book and Once and Future King are leaving my voice raw.

Edited December 18, 2010 by swimmermom3

[Leonor]

If anyone is interested, I can send a chart I constructed that delineates the philosopher/movement in relation to their positions on metaphysics, epistemology, and ethics. I had my students take notes on this chart based on their readings.

 

I sent you a pm.

Thanks for sharing.

[Gratia271]

I believe I have sent pm's to everyone and the file to email addresses that I have. Let me know if I somehow missed someone.

[swimmermom3]

I believe I have sent pm's to everyone and the file to email addresses that I have. Let me know if I somehow missed someone.

 

Thank you for your generosity. I find that we do need to organize the information graphically in order to help us understand it.

 

I am curious to hear from those of you who are using this with younger children. What about the book appeals to your students? Do early middle and late elementary-aged readers just enjoy the story or do they find the works of Hume and Berekly easy to grasp? My 12 yo, 18yo, and myself find that we have to reread some of the philosophy passages. We have to make diagrams and follow rabbit trails on the computer to comprehend what is being said.

 

Please indulge my curiosity. Right now, I suspect that we are not exactly on the right side of intelligence in this household.

 

Do you all have backgrounds in philosophy? Do your children read other nonfiction works on the same reading and comprehension level? Is that how they are easily able to absorb Sophie's World?

[Jyniffrec]

I suspect that Thing 2 is enjoying the story more than anything, but he can still jump in to the conversations that Thing 1 and I have. Thing 1 has decided she doesn't agree with certain philosophers but likes others. We haven't reached the part about Hume and Berkley yet. The charts are definitely going to come in handy.

 

As we go through this book I am slowly realizing that I do have a bit of a philosophy background. I took several philosophy courses in college because I needed them for my major (theology). I am also slowly realizing that I did internalize some of it and that I recognize many of the thought processes discussed in the book. I still struggle with Derrida and Deconstruction.

 

My husband and I talk a lot with each other about things that follow a philosophical line of thinking and we don't do fluff if it can be avoided. We think things to death and I am super intense (or so I am told). I don't let subjects go until I have struggled through them, categorized them and internalized them. So that would either drive a child crazy or give them food for thought. I think it does a little of both to Thing 1; but, again, Thing 2 seems clueless in this regard. :lol: