Feeling sad over school

[bugs]

I am feeling so much angst over my daughter's high school experience so far. My heart is heavy and I don't know what to do.

 

DD is very conscientious in her work but she is doing so poorly. Her last several tests in government, physics and Alg I have been D's. She works long days so this is bringing her down - and me as well. I am trying to be positive and optimistic in front of her but it's getting more difficult. She has cried so much this semester. Now I am crying as well.

 

I don't really know how to recover. I've always been one to "stay the course" but then again my children were't drowning. Now that she's doing high school work I fear minimizing the integrity of the courses if I were to change them, kwim.

 

I had really been looking forward to the whole homeschool hs experience but now feel as though I've botched it up.

 

Sorry to be so sad on this board.

[regentrude]

I am sorry that this is not a positive experience for you and your DD.

 

Let me share a personal experience: I remember my first semester in college where I was spending insane hours and it did not click. I was working very hard but did not understand the math and physics I was studying. It took me a whole semester to figure out what was wrong and how to study- and from that day on, a light bulb had turned on and I made straight A's.

I am writing this because I suspect something similar may be going on with your DD. Spending a lot of hours on school and still not succeeding means that the time spent is not spent effectively on learning - and that is very frustrating. So, if you deal with subjects she does not seem to understand (physics and algebra- as opposed to subjects that are memorization), you need to find out why it does not click.

 

One important thing to look at is: what does she do if she encounters content that initially does not make sense? helpful strategies could be:

take written notes on the reading - sometimes writing about it helps sort thoughts

get a different book that explains it in a different way

find somebody to discuss the material with - ideally another student, or a group - to talk out loud about the concepts

work problems, beginning from simple to harder and develop the understanding of the underlying concepts through this work (as opposed to feeling you need to have understood everything before beginning problems)

 

I frequently encounter students who have similar problems: they work hard and become discouraged because they still don't do well. For most of them, things turn around when they discover what is the best study technique for them. this is much more frequent than students who simply do not have the capabilities- so please do not be discouraged and keep trying.

 

If you can be a bit specific where she has issues with algebra and physics, I may be able to make moer specific suggestions.

[choirfarm]

Do you mean physics or do you mean physical science?? You really need to have had algebra and geometry before you do Physics. My son loves it, but it is FULL of math and even some basic trig. So if she is struggling in Algebra, then physics is way too hard for her. If it is physical science then that is another story.

 

Ok, how is this year different material wise from last year. Did you change science providers? Is she a 9th grader?? What are you using for Algebra? Did you change types of math you were using. What other courses is she doing and is she doing well? How does she learn best do you think?

 

Christine

[Faithr]

Is your daughter working with you or is she working alone? If my dd were doing poorly on tests I would sit down and take some with her!!! To show her what is expected. And then if I saw she wasn't getting it I'd study with her to help her learn to pinpoint what it is she needs to do to digest the material. I might even give her the test orally before she takes it on her own. Has she ever encountered this problem before?

 

I have to say that none of my kids took physics or government in 9th grade. We did Earth Science in 9th and gov't happened in 11th or 12th grade. Maybe the course material is just too overwhelming for a 9th grader? It would be for my kids.

[Faithr]

Is your daughter working with you or is she working alone? If my dd were doing poorly on tests I would sit down and take some with her!!! To show her what is expected. And then if I saw she wasn't getting it I'd study with her to help her learn to pinpoint what it is she needs to do to digest the material. I might even give her the test orally before she takes it on her own. Has she ever encountered this problem before?

 

I have to say that none of my kids took physics or government in 9th grade. We did Earth Science in 9th and gov't happened in 11th or 12th grade. Maybe the course material is just too overwhelming for a 9th grader? It would be for my kids.

[bugs]

DD is using Lial's Intro Algebra. She had been using MUS but it wasn't giving her enough practice when she got stuck, so we switched. She does seem to be getting math she just makes rushed mistakes. She takes "short cuts" when she shouldn't. For instance, I've asked her to show all her work. But on this last test she gave the answer only for a problem that required subtracting one polynomial from another - she did the work in her head.

 

I chose Conceptual Physics for her science so the math would be minimal. Honestly, I believe she feels she's reading a foriegn language (or listening to me speak in tongues as I go over it.) I've thought of having her use PH Science Explorers and add on a couple of other items like research projects instead. She's resistant to this because her 7th grade brother is using it.

 

How to help her learn the language of science? She also feels it's pretty boring (like government).

[regentrude]

How to help her learn the language of science? She also feels it's pretty boring

 

You need to translate the "language of science" into specific things - and I actually think Hewitt is doing a pretty good job. you might want to check out How things work - the physics of everyday life by Bloomfield which gets great reviews (I have not seen the book yet).

 

If she has begun to study physics this semester, she is probably still on mechanics and looking at motion of objects. Translate every abstract thing into something specific: what is an acceleration? When something changes speed or direction of motion. Walk in the driveway, draw arrows in chalk for velocity, draw arrows for acceleration. Let her feel the changes.

Let her make up her own problems: starting the car, speeding up, going round the corner, slowing down and stopping at the stoplight. Let her think about velocities and acceleration.

Let her draw a lot of sketches. No physics problem without a diagram!

For forces, have her experiment with levers, pulleys, pull and push boxes, pull and push at angles.

Do free fall experiments with balls; throw balls, drop balls - and observe what they do: do they slow down and stop at the highest point before changing direction - this sort of thing.

Have her ask "why" questions and try to find physics answers: why does the sled go downhill? does it matter how steep the hill, how heavy the sled, how hard the snow?

Build a pendulum and experiment: does the period depend on the mass, the length of the string, or the amplitude?

 

Lastly, it is understandable that she does not find mechanics terribly exciting - it is not, but it is the basis for an understanding of any other physics. It's something one just has to do.

[Jann in TX]

It is NOT light on math. Students need to have a good foundation in Algebra 1 at least in order to do ANY of the problem solving!

 

Traditional high school Physics requires Algebra 2 and Trig...

 

I'd drop the Conceptual Physics and do a general Biology or Physical Science instead... she is NOT ready for the Math component.

[Faithr]

I just thought of something else! I deliberately make 9th grade kind of light. For one thing we go from being pretty unstructured to being a lot more structured, that's just our homeschooling style. But also my kids go through these growth spurts/hormonal changes that just make thinking really hard to do!!!! But I've found they catch up fine in later years when they can handle more workload and are truly independent. So maybe that is something to consider.

 

Also, even my mathy kids had to learn to slow down and be tidier about writing out Algebra problems. Rushed mistakes are common. I find, at least with my kids, learning to slow down and be more precise is a skill they actually have to learn and it is a rather slow learning curve for them, but they do eventually get it.

[Julie in MN]

I am feeling so much angst over my daughter's high school experience so far. My heart is heavy and I don't know what to do.

 

Just adding a couple of things I have done with my kids, which are probably similar to the others:

 

1. Make 9th grade 9th grade, a transition to high school. It wasn't even high school when I was in 9th, and I'd hate to tell you the paltry coursework I did in the 70s.

 

2. For science, I've been having my ds type up a summary of what he learned each day. I do this instead of other things. For his particular personality, it seems to help him "own" the material better than worksheets or questions designed by someone else. It's sort of like taking notes, but more towards summarizing.

 

3. If her grades along the way are poor but she eventually picks up the material on her final exam, then I'd just use the final to asses her grade. It's easier on you, and it's a better reflection of what she's really accomplished & retained.

 

4. Of the courses you mentioned, I'd spend the most time on Algebra in 9th grade. My older dd had to call her first year of algebra "pre-algebra" and Math Relief was the program that did wonders for us. But whatever you want to use, I'd spend the time to make her algebra solid, even do it alongside her, if necessary.

 

5. Marker boards are good ways to take a look at how a kid is doing their math problems, if they aren't showing you enough work. Somehow that marker is more fun to push around :) Or I will take the marker in hand and have my child tell me what to do next. Sometimes it's a small issue that is overlooked and it comes up in random places so you don't realize what that issue is until you go through it together.

 

6. Find out which Algebra problems can be skipped, either by looking at the material yourself or by finding other syllabi online. I know that if a kid is struggling, more problems can be helpful. But since your dd is doing some things in her head, she may be one where more is not helpful. My ds did better in Algebra when I had him do fewer problems, especially in the first third of the year. And I only require kids to show their work when either (a) they can't do it in their head (which will eventually mean every problem) or (b) they are making lots of mistakes.

 

Julie

[choirfarm]

DD is using Lial's Intro Algebra. She had been using MUS but it wasn't giving her enough practice when she got stuck, so we switched. She does seem to be getting math she just makes rushed mistakes. She takes "short cuts" when she shouldn't. For instance, I've asked her to show all her work. But on this last test she gave the answer only for a problem that required subtracting one polynomial from another - she did the work in her head.

 

I chose Conceptual Physics for her science so the math would be minimal. Honestly, I believe she feels she's reading a foriegn language (or listening to me speak in tongues as I go over it.) I've thought of having her use PH Science Explorers and add on a couple of other items like research projects instead. She's resistant to this because her 7th grade brother is using it.

 

How to help her learn the language of science? She also feels it's pretty boring (like government).

 

I would honestly change the science. It is too hard for her level. I would just make math a priority and try to make that successful. I think she sounds pretty normal in that department. My middle son has the same problem. Just make her go back and redo those problems. Just keep working. How are you grading her Algebra?? ARe you counting her homework grades? If so, do you give her her real grade or completion grades? I give mine a 100 if they complete it fully regardless of the grade because I want them to learn!!! We do Chalkdust so we have midchapter quizzes and tests. I count the test grades as 50 percent, quizzes as 20 percent and homework as 30 percent. Is she doing ok on her math tests?

 

For government, is this the first time she has used a big textbook like this? If so, teach her how to read it. Go through one chapter with her. Take a highlighter and read it together. Help her decide what is important and what she needs to highlight. When you finish the chapter, then have her get out her notebook and outline the chapter or take notes and show how it flows. Then have a page where she defines important terms. This is what we do for our science and it works quite well for them to do well on the test. Many kids think they can just read something and understand it. We write in our books, take notes, write vocabulary and sometimes make flash cards. Just reading won't cut it.

 

Also, I try to do just one challenging thing a year. For 9th grade, it was bringing my son up to TOG rhetoric level literary analysis. This year it is AP Stats and keeping up with an outside class as well as working on his writing. I try to balance classes I know will be tough with classes he can breathe.

 

Christine

 

Christine

[Liza Q]

Another thought. She seems to be taking 7 courses plus band. This is a lot for 9th grade, imo! Are Government and Logic 1 semester courses or full year courses? Since she is taking History, does she need to take Government at the same time? Maybe she is spreading herself too thin.

[choirfarm]

Another thought. She seems to be taking 7 courses plus band. This is a lot for 9th grade, imo! Are Government and Logic 1 semester courses or full year courses? Since she is taking History, does she need to take Government at the same time? Maybe she is spreading herself too thin.

 

Boy, I didn't catch that. I totally agree...history AND government????? That is way too much. Government is considered a history credit. We are dropping TOG next year to do a year of APGovernment.

 

Christine

[Robin in DFW]

in our area...

 

9th

Algebra 1 or Geometry

World Geography

Integrated Physics & Chemistry (aka Physical Science) or Biology

English

maybe a foreign language

a couple of elective courses

 

Government is typically done in 12th (1 semester with Economics for the other semester)

Physics is usually done in 11th or 12th (after Algebra 2)

[bugs]

My siggy isn't quite up to date. I decided to postpone history until after government. Gov't and Logic are one semester classes. Her course work looks more like this:

 

Spanish (Visual Link)

Classical Writing -Cheria

LLFLoTR

Great Books

Algebra I

Logic

Gov't

Band

Physics (Conceptual)

 

I truly appreciate all the suggestions, they give me hope and have lifted my spirits.

 

I am considering having her do ds science but she will complete a technology research paper, etc. I am not super excited about doing a Physical Science program per se because she finished doing middle school chemistry last year with the Chem C2000 kit. I am just not wanting to invest in more chemistry stuff at this time.

[tex-mex]

It is NOT light on math. Students need to have a good foundation in Algebra 1 at least in order to do ANY of the problem solving!

 

Traditional high school Physics requires Algebra 2 and Trig...

 

I'd drop the Conceptual Physics and do a general Biology or Physical Science instead... she is NOT ready for the Math component.

:iagree: We have Hewitt's Conceptual Physics (long story -- but it was by a teacher who was teaching ICP -- Intro to Chem & Physics. Many parents complained over the book choice.) and it is very difficult. You need to drop it for now. Why not do just focus on math and drop science (for now) as she has done Chemistry?

Edited December 9, 2010 by tex-mex

[Alyce]

This is a heavy load for a 9th grader. Most people who homeschool high school think it should be different and much harder than what they've been doing so they make the mistake of piling on work. This is an adjustment time. It's kind of like Kindergarden was. In 9th you are begining to dig deeper into subjects you have only skimmed in the past and the conceptual ideas are harder. If you are using Lial's are you having her do all the excercises. If so that's too much. With Lial's you usually only do odd problems. If she is making messy mistakes then you need to slow down and help her be more responsible. Make her redo the problem. You can also use methods you used in MUS. Make her teach you the concept. It will help her cement it into her head better and show you just where she is struggling.

 

Physics is definitely a higher grade course. It is one that many people use during high school but not until 11th or 12th grade, partially because of the math but also the material needs a more mature head. In my area of the woods, our science progression is :Biology, Chemistry, Physics and then some sort of advanced science.

 

You need to find a way to cut out at least a course. Around here our public school students take 5 courses. That's too low in my book so my kids did 6 for 9th grade, giving them time to adjust to the more advanced learning and then I bumped it up to 7 & 8 subjects a year.

 

You also need to remember this is a time of a lot of things going on. Her hormones are starting to kick in and although many people think it's no big deal and shouldn't be used as an excuse, it can make a big difference in a life. She may have trouble concentrating, be more irritable etc. Also this is a time of life where teenagers actually need more sleep than they got when they were young, although many rarely due. Studies have shown that teenagers need 9-10 hrs of sleep per night to have the energy to tackle the heavier loads they are experiencing. Another words not only is it a major time of change in their schooling experience but also in their physical experience and you have to give that some focus in your school as well.

 

Talk with her about what's going wrong. She's becoming an adult now. Ask her how she feels and why. Seriously look not only at the schedule but at your curriculum too. Is she feeling overwhelmed, not understanding a certain curriculum, is it too boring for her. Look around together and see if there is something else that might work better. When my kids were in high school that had some choice in what we did and used. I would pick curriculum I thought was doable for me (several not just one) and we would look at it together. Your dd will know if it's something she can do. Trust her instincts some too. I still made the ultimate decision and so will you but it help, even if only to make them feel more of an adult, to involve them in this process.

 

Take some time off during the Holidays and just enjoy yourselves. Don't worry about school, just rest for now. Tackle this stuff anew in January when school starts back. sounds like you both need a rest right now and will be better able to think this stuff through in a couple of weeks. Good luck and you know you'll get lots of help with curriculum questions if you need to ask them.

[Blueridge]

:grouphug: No need to feel sad! A new year is around the corner, and is the perfect time to make major changes in her schedule and routine! Be excited and positive about it. Tell her that you are making some curriculum changes (as so many of us do) that will benefit her. Find a more age-appropriate science, thinking of how all 4 high school years will look on a transcript. Most 9th graders begin with either Physical Science or Biology. Many students don't have government until their senior year (along with a semester of Economics), so setting that aside for now would help her be more inspired about it when she is older. Try US History for the entire year, or Geography. So, take a break, and start afresh in 2011!

Edited December 17, 2010 by Blueridge
I. Need. More. Coffee.

[LisaKinVA]

I'm just chiming in to say drop the Physics until 11th or 12th. She should be taking Physical Science (8th/9th) or General Science (7th/8th), or Biology (9th or 10th). Although, I think everyone I know has completed Algebra I prior to Biology, and are taking Algebra II concurrently with Chemistry, but prior to Physics...

 

Hence the "standard" progression for science for high school would be:

 

Physical Science - 9th

Biology - 10th

Chemistry - 11th

Physics (conceptual) - 12th

 

If students are "ahead" in math/science that schedule would be altered to:

 

Biology - 9th

Chemistry - 10th

Physics (conceptual) 11th or AP level Bio or Chem

AP-level Science - 12th (Bio, Chem or Calc-based physics, or AP-level conceptual physics).

 

When it comes to a Gov't course, there are varying degrees in the complexity of Gov't courses (degree of thought, and output).

 

I took Honors Gov't in 10th. I also had a semester in 9th (I changed high schools, and the state had a different requirement list, and didn't "accept" my credits for gov't, health or PE... would you believe I had to go through s*x ed 4 times, because each district/state taught it in a different grade OR didn't "recognize" the prior coursework :lol:).

 

If you are using a more advanced Gov't book, it may simply be "too deep" for where she needs to be, and/or requiring thought processes she's not quite ready for.

 

There are lighter programs... one HS I went to, I took a semester of Gov't and a semester of Geography.

 

Around here, the standard 9th grade curriculum is World Geography & World Cultures, followed by US History in 10th, US Gov't/Econ in 11th

 

There is nothing that says that is an order that *must* be followed, but just be certain the text and expectations are appropriate for her level.

 

Lastly, I agree with the PP who said she may need help figuring out how to study...maybe doesn't quite understand the expectations, etc.

 

When it comes to showing all of the work, I don't accept it. I hand it right back and say, "you haven't shown your work. If I grade it, you will not get credit for it."

 

I firmly believe in partial credit for math, as well. If the solution to a problem is 4 steps, there is a point for each step correctly shown, and the answer... so that problem would be worth 5 points, whatever is incorrect will be corrected after the fact -- but then there is more incentive to show the work. I don't know anyone who actually thinks, it will be faster if I skip the work... it doesn't matter if I only get 1 or 2 out of 5 points!

 

Best wishes...

[lllll]

..

Edited December 29, 2012 by ksva

[Vanna]

I just wanted to say thanks to all who offered suggestions to Bugs. This is a great thread and I've learned a lot by reading it.

[rlugbill]

I once interviewed to teach at a boarding school. I asked one of the teachers there what they do if a student fails a course. He said they don't let them fail. They come in after school and get extra help until they can get better grades.

 

Public schools feel that it is their job to sort students instead of helping their students. Homeschooling doesn't have to be that way.

 

Don't let her fail.

 

You have already gotten lots of great advice here.

 

If you let her fail, she will think she is a failure. Don't move her on into new material until she has mastered the material she is working on. Go back and re-do it. Give her the test again. Let her study and retake the test if she doesn't get a good grade- A or B.

 

No one is a failure. But some people take longer to learn certain things than others. Schools keep moving those people along, telling them that they are failures because they never get enough time to learn the subject. They are always pushed on to the next topic before they have mastered the last one.

 

Don't get stuck in this pattern of failure. Help her succeed.

 

Best wishes.

[pbjmeyer]

I once interviewed to teach at a boarding school. I asked one of the teachers there what they do if a student fails a course. He said they don't let them fail. They come in after school and get extra help until they can get better grades.

 

Public schools feel that it is their job to sort students instead of helping their students. Homeschooling doesn't have to be that way.

 

Don't let her fail.

 

You have already gotten lots of great advice here.

 

If you let her fail, she will think she is a failure. Don't move her on into new material until she has mastered the material she is working on. Go back and re-do it. Give her the test again. Let her study and retake the test if she doesn't get a good grade- A or B.

 

No one is a failure. But some people take longer to learn certain things than others. Schools keep moving those people along, telling them that they are failures because they never get enough time to learn the subject. They are always pushed on to the next topic before they have mastered the last one.

 

Don't get stuck in this pattern of failure. Help her succeed.

 

Best wishes.

 

:iagree:

[love2read]

I've seen half of my children through high school and it has been different for each one. This is the time to establish a passion to succeed academically on their own. For some this means continuing with a classical approach and for others you need to shift gears. My second child experienced just what your dd is going through and I didn't shift gears. She continued struggling and life was miserable until 11th grade when I wised-up. As others have suggested, I would follow a more typical 9th grade program this year. I won't elaborate on material because I'm sure you already have ideas, but know that this can be resolved. If you do switch books, be sure to eliminate a quarter or more of the less important chapters so that she doesn't feel like she is starting from scratch.

[bugs]

Thank you all again. I just peaked back at this thread because now that the hussle and bustle of Christmas is over as well as our earlier drama, I can think about the next steps. I appreciate all the comments. You folks are swell :001_smile:. And, I do have a more postive attitude. (Life is so much more manageable in the day than at night :D).

[EKS]

 

Physics is definitely a higher grade course. It is one that many people use during high school but not until 11th or 12th grade, partially because of the math but also the material needs a more mature head.

 

*Conceptual* physics actually tends to be a 9th grade course.