Chalkdust Precalc after Alg 1?

[Bells]

Hello.

 

My almost 13 yo daughter is about to finish her second year of Algebra 1. She has worked through a 1963 Dolciani, NEM 1 and is about to finish the first half of an Art of Problem Solving Alg 1 class. She wants to move on - I really think the Dolciani went well into what is now included in most Alg 2 books. I've recently been shown Chalkdust and I like what I see. Have any of you moved from Alg 1 to Chalkdust's Precalc? (Their Precalc is a combo of College Algebra and Trig.) I think most of what is offered in their Alg 2 class will be review for her - all but the last 3 chapters. I'm not crazy about buying the class just to use 1/4 of it. If I order the College Algebra, I might as well just order the Precalc and save about $300. Any advice out there?

 

I also posted this on the Accelerated Learner Board.

 

Thanks,

Bells

[regentrude]

Just saw that you cross-posted; I replied in the Accelerated forum, but will copy my answer here as well.

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I do not know the Chalkdust, but I know AoPS - and I see a LOT of math between algebra 1 and pre-calculus.

 

In order to understand trigonometry, it is essential to have geometry of triangles. (And in order to later understand calculus, one should have a full geometry course, be introduced to mathematical proofs, analytical geometry etc.) I would not consider skipping geometry a wise decision.

 

After my DD finished AOPS Alg 1 (which is about ch. 13 of the Intro to Algebra book), I had her complete the book. Simultaneously, she began working on geometry and is now on the AOPS Intermediate Algebra.

Only when she has finished this I consider her ready for precalculus.

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[Bells]

Thank you. Excellent points. I've been told by some highschool math teachers that doing Geometry after Alg 2 or 3 is better than between Alg 1 and 2 - as it takes a more logically-developed brain. Your opinions about this? I hadn't thought about it being necessary for Precalc - now I understand why it is.

 

I'm not crazy about AOPS because of the text-based platform. My daughter hasn't had any trouble with the Alg 1 content or the pace (except for growing tired of waiting between the teacher's question and the students' answers to be posted). She thinks the AOPS book explains algebra nicely but I think her real strength comes from her Dolciani background. I'm not sure she'd learn more advanced algebra concepts - or geometry - so well in that forum the first time around. Thinking she'd do better w/ a Chalkdust approach. The other reasons I'm not a huge fan of AOPS: it seems that a lot of the AOPS class time is spent teaching students how to spot an undefined problem; and I'm not sure I like the "race" to answer the questions.

That said, I think her teacher (DanZ) explains things clearly, motivates the students, and is exceedingly patient. Wish we could see and hear him.

 

My plan was/is for her to finish the AOPS Alg 1 book and then do more algebra before adding geometry. Maybe I have it all wrong.

 

Perhaps she should finish the AOPS Alg 1 book, do AOPS or Chalkdust Alg 2 supplemented w/ Dolciani's Alg 2, then AOPS or Chalkdust Geometry and then work in Precalc and so forth.

 

Thanks for your help.

Bells

[Michelle in AL]

I wouldn't recommend skipping Algebra 2 either, especially if your dd is likely to go into math/science. A strong algebra foundation is sooo necessary to all the maths and sciences, that I truly believe you can't get enough of it.

 

My dd is probably what you consider accellerated. She's done the typical sequence but at an earlier age. She wants to go into engineering and from what I hear your algebra background can make or break your ability to handle the upper level calculus/chemistry etc. As a mom I can't be sure how strong her foundation is, but I wish I had slowed down and made sure everything was solid.

[kiana]

What they said. Don't don't don't don't skip algebra 2 and geometry to go to precalc, no matter how good her algebra 1 was.

 

Precalc usually doesn't end up being as proofy as a good geometry, but it still requires logic, reasoning, and good skills with USING plane geometry. It also only *briefly* reviews algebra 2 stuff. I do not think college algebra is sufficient for an introduction.

 

I agree that buying a course to use only 1/4 of it stinks. Could she perhaps work through the Chalkdust intermediate algebra book independently, then get the full shebang for geometry precalc? Alternatively, could she do AOPS's algebra 2 without the course, if their book explains well?

 

If you decide to go with the chalkdust book and think most of it's review, here's what I'd recommend: Most textbooks intended for colleges have a review section after each chapter. Have her work those (odd problems, so you'll have the answers) for the chapters that she's already covered. If she gets any wrong, do some more problems on that topic. That way she wouldn't need to take a full year for stuff that she already 3/4 knows.

[MomsintheGarden]

Our oldest two have done Chalkdust for high school math, so I am familiar with that program. I agree with the above posters that Geometry and Algebra II should not be skipped. Your dd will need the content of those courses to have a good background for Precalculus and Calculus, as well as for college entrance exams.

 

That said, you will probably be able to skip some things on a case-by-case basis. Kiana has good advice - have your dd do the Review Exercises at the end of each chapter to see if she can move on. We routinely skip Chapter P of Algebra II, Chapter P of Precalc, and Chapter 12 of Precalc. Chapter 9 of Precalc (Sequences, Series, and Probability) covers the material that's in Chapter 10 of Algebra II, but in greater depth. I suppose you could skip that, too. Keep in mind that a solid foundation in Algebra, Geometry, and Trigonometry is crucial for success in Calculus. Bright students should find Calculus straightforward with a good background. Without that, even the best math students will struggle with Calc.

 

The CD texts are designed to be used in the standard order of Alg. I, Geometry, Alg. II, Precalc, Calculus. Geometry contains Algebra I review throughout at the end of the problem sections - it's broken out so it can be easily done or skipped. Algebra II assumes knowledge of Geometry. Precalculus reviews and expands Algebra II in some of the chapters, but there is a lot of new material. I like to think of Precalc as a three-semester course: one semester each in Advanced (or College) Algebra, Trigonometry, and Analytic Geometry. You can view the outlines for these courses on the CD website.

 

If you are worried about the expense, others on this forum have found ways to buy CD more cheaply. You can search for cheap chalkdust on this forum to find out how.

 

Blessings,

GardenMom

[Bells]

Thanks all for the guidance. We've decided to work through CD Alg II (w/ a little AOPS on the side) doing reviews and slowing to broaden knowledge as needed. Mr. Mosely sent me a detailed comparison of CD's Alg II, College Algebra & Precalc - and for the most part, his recommendations dovetail nicely with all of yours. He did mention that Geometry could be taken between the Algebras, after them, or even after Precalc. I think we'll put it right after Alg 2. The old Dolciani Alg 1 had a hefty dose of Geometry & Trig - enough to get her started in Alg 2; if she needs more to finish Alg 2, we'll punch in the Geometry course then. Yes, we could do Geometry next but I would really like to do more Algebra next with a kid who is asking to learn more of it - now.

 

Again, thanks. You've all been a big help.

Bells