Modeling great writing. Which programs do this?

[lisabees]

Which programs use writing selections to analyze, teach and model? I do not mean programs that teach by rewriting using a key outline. A program that looks at a passage and discusses it; what is the topic sentence? Why is it a good one? How does this writer use imagery or parallelism? Etc, etc. Then, I imagine lessons based on the strengths of that particular passage.

 

I am sure there is a way to do this without a program as well. And I am sure many programs use this in minimal way. I am looking for a list of programs that use it as the core of their program. :)

[forty-two]

My understanding is that Classical Writing does this, especially at the upper levels. Also, I *think* that SWB's high school writing lecture goes in this direction (based on her essay about writing instruction in WWE). Most books on rhetoric should go this route as well - that's what rhetoric *is*, after all ;).

[forty-two]

Looking at CW, I'd say the type of analysis you're looking for starts fully at Diogenes; Aesop/Homer are more looking at mechanics, and learning multiple ways to express something at the word/sentence/paragraph/whole-thing levels (including outlining to get a feel for types of organization and develop beginning lit analysis skills) - the beginning/foundational levels of what you are looking for. I know that CW has an Older Beginners program that takes 7th+ through Aesop and Homer in 22 weeks. Classical Composition *might* do something similar, in that it is a progym program, too, but I don't know all that much about it.

[lisabees]

Thank you forty-two. I am trying to find something for my 8th grader, who is a struggling writer and back in ps this year. I need something fairly simple for afterschooling him. I fear that the great works from classical writers won't inspire him. When he was home, we would read and talk about a selection from modern literature; he not only understood it, but really appreciated the style. I was hoping that just pulling apart great writing might create aha moments.

 

This child is dyslexic and a bit slow. The more he relates to his work, the more connections he makes.

 

Thank you!

[creekmom]

Write with the Best http://www.edudps.com/WWTBVOL2.html

 

Eight distinct genres are covered:

* Poetry - Free Verse from Emily Dickinson

* Business Letters from Helen Keller

* Persuasive Essays from Thomas Paine

* Expository Essays from Francis Bacon

* Literary Critiques from Edgar Allan Poe (That's right! Poe was a superb literary critic at one point.)

* Newspaper Articles from Ernest Hemingway (Yes, indeed! In his early career, Hemingway was a newspaper article writer.)

* Speeches from Marcus Tullius Cicero

* Dramatic Monologues from William Shakespeare

[Guest]

Most programs I know of that do the kind of work you talk about are high school or even college rhetoric/writing level.

 

One book that is not a program, but which talks about helping kids to see and discuss literary elements on the level of the sentence and short paragraph, is Everyday Editing by Jeff Anderson. He talks about using "mentor texts," which are basically clear examples (have to dress it up in jargon, you know). His choice of books is probably not what you have in mind; he uses a lot of literature aimed at middleschoolers rather than classics. But what he does with them is broken down in quite a lot of detail and you might find it useful as a toolkit, if you can't find a program that does what you want.

 

For an 8th grader, have you looked at Literary Lessons From Lord of the Rings? If your child is at all a fantasy fan, it's a way to use a popular but well-written book to look at things like imagery, themes, setting, tone, word choices in some detail. The teacher's guide, which is all I have, has a lot of basic comprehension questions and vocabulary which we just skip to get to the mini-lectures and discussion of the book's style and structure. There are somewhat lengthier discussions of the way the book draws on epic poetry, particularly Beowulf but also elements of heroicism in the Iliad and Odyssey (you do not need to read these entire epics to use the guide for LotR); of its relation to the Arthurian legends; etc.

[lisabees]

Two wonderful ideas. Write the Best looks great; I will consider that for sure. I wish there were more examples and more detailed instruction for each type of writing, though. Maybe I can add that myself.

 

KarenAnne, I just downloaded The Everyday Editing book onto my brand new Kindle (I had to try it out, you know ;)). The samples look fabulous. DS is not a fantasy kid, although he is going through the Percy Jackson books. Until I homeschooled him last year, he was reading 3-4 years behind grade level. Fantasy had too many imaginary words; he couldn't grasp the basics of the English Language, let alone made up names and cities and ideas. He is a very literal kid, so discussion is the best way to get things out of him.

 

Thank you both.

 

KarenAnne, I just received my GEMS package in the mail! I'll post or PM about that later! ;)

[swimmermom3]

Lisa, if I only had a bit of time after school (and I may be doing this with my 10th grader), I would do something similar to what Julie Bogart (Brave Writer) does with Boomerang. I have linked you to a sample for the first week for Agatha Christie's novel, And Then There Were None. I dislike the price of the program, but it was worth it to me to subscribe for a year. Your student uses the passage for dictation, but Julie usually picks dynamite passages that have unique punctuation and literary devices. You don't necessarily have to have your son write more on top of his regular day, but read one of the books Bogart uses and then follow the directions and have your son talk about it with you. I am in between assignments and students, so this is a terrible explanation but I do think you could get a lot of mileage out of something like this. buy an individual book or two and then do your own thing with books your son likes as long as the writing is solid.

[8filltheheart]

I don't know of a program that does it. That is exactly how I teach, though. I have seen different programs that use bits and pieces of that approach (MCT Essay Voyage does to a certain extent). Put That in Writing does also. (PTIW has sample paragraphs for students to evaluate via a rubric which can be a great teaching tool b/c they are not personally vested in the critique)

 

FWIW.....If you want to attempt to do it on your own, non-fiction is the easiest place to look for selections.

[swimmermom3]

I don't know of a program that does it. That is exactly how I teach, though. I have seen different programs that use bits and pieces of that approach (MCT Essay Voyage does to a certain extent). Put That in Writing does also. (PTIW has sample paragraphs for students to evaluate via a rubric which can be a great teaching tool b/c they are not personally vested in the critique)

 

FWIW.....If you want to attempt to do it on your own, non-fiction is the easiest place to look for selections.

 

Karen, when you post, I tend to listen. I also often can't decide if I feel tremendous relief that I don't need an expensive curriculum to accomplish my goal or that I need to beat my head against the desk because it is not so obvious to me, I don't have the years of experience you do, and I want you to spell it out step-by-step. No, actually, I would love for you to spend part of your summer break on the West Coast...at my house talking science and writing.

[Hunter]

Write Like Hemingway is too hard for a middleschooler, but I think you might find it helpful to skim through it. After seeing what a talented barebones writer can do, I feel less stressed about the NEED to copy the more flowery styles of writing that so many curriculums tout as worthy examples in NEED of copying.

 

With every subject, I like to whittle things down to the skeleton, and then add padding with only the things "I" love.

 

Write Like Hemingway really helped me get focused and know what is essential.

[lisabees]

I gotta run out for the day, so I'll be quick.

 

First, I've dug into enough of the Everyday Editing book, KarenAnne, to know it is exactly what I need. And I like his book selections. Classics can be difficult for this son. This reminds me of Deconstructing Penguins for writing. Exploring through discussion. Oh - and this book would work beautifully along side of Killgallon's books.

 

Lisa, Bravewriter is right up there with I'd like to do. We don't even need to read the books in order to recognize and explore good writing, do we?

 

8Filltheheart, I figured you did this without a program. :D Can I come over and watch you someday??

 

Hunter, I haven't checked out the Hemingway book. Thank you for the suggestions!

 

Okay - I'm off to meet my MIL. :001_smile:

[justamouse]

It's hard to find a program that accomplishes all of that, but I've seen bits in different ones. In the end I always take a little of this and a little of that to make what I want.

 

So far, I've loved Killgallon's SENTENCE COMPOSING FOR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL and the one for High School. I've taught them like this on my own, but I sucked it up and bought these books because I needed to streamline and eek out some time for myself. :001_smile: But these books are the closest to how I taught them myself. By the time they get to this age they should have a strong background in poetry already, and classic sentences for copywork (if you've been using it for copywork and such) and reading most of the books used as examples. It' shouldn't be something completely new, but just another tool to learn that takes what you are doing already to the next level.

 

I also love THE GRAMMAR OF POETRY. It doesn't break apart a sentence per se, but through it you can teach all about metaphor, allegory, and all.

 

I had bought CW, and it was one of my major regrets. I wouldn't go that way, but a lot of people love it, so *shrug*.

Edited December 3, 2010 by justamouse

[cschnee]

Just listening in.

[lisabees]

So far, I've loved Killgallon's SENTENCE COMPOSING FOR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL and the one for High School.

 

.

 

:iagree: The book Karen Anne suggested should be the handbook to Killgallon's Sentence Composing books. :) I failed to mention in my original post that we used those books successfully. But...I used it more like "seatwork" and didn't engage with ds much. Of course, he got the most out of it on the days that we did discuss aloud. Everyday Editing suggests how to discuss the sentences. Killgallon provides the sentences. I would also like to discuss paragraphs; Everyday Editing suggests the first pages in a book are often the best. I will also use non-fiction as 8FilltheHeart recommends.

 

Bravewriter and Write with the Best also provides the framework in other ways. I will glean what I can from them.

 

So, I have a plan. You know I really wanted this to be a program that was already laid out for me! :lol: But, this may be more powerful.