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I feel like we're really light in our 5th grade year this yr. Can you plz look/help?


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Dd10, 11 next month, is quite bright, could be working on probably a 6th grade level, may be capable of even more than that. We were in an academic co-op that was perfect for her, very challenging, but that disbanded. Now we're floundering and way too light.

 

She's doing:

 

CLE/MM math, which is perfect

 

R+S English 5 (good and we'll continue but it seems light/lame after MCT Town last yr)

 

spelling is a combo of TOG vocab words, words gleaned from her misspells and other words I think will challenge her (she's a natural speller)-this only takes her about 5 min per day

 

writing is a big bugaboo-can't find a curric that will work for her after three

yrs in IEW-she needs more academic writing. I'm thinking of Meaningful Composition, but so much of it is redundant after IEW. I bought WriteShop, same thing, redundant.

-She so far this year did Remedia Outlining and Paragraph Writing

Made Easy. They were okay but no challenge and no real life

application so no retention. She knows most of the writing that

is taught in R+S English 5

 

Sci in co-op but it's minimal

 

TOG Ancients for history, geog, etc., but it's ending up being mainly just a lot of Bible and one map per week

 

Awana-Scripture memory, etc.

 

15 min typing practice per day

 

She gets art in her co-op, does music on her own with her own reading/listening, PE is ballet 3x/wk, etc. so all that "extra" stuff is covered

 

We dropped Latin last year after four yrs of it because it was getting way too in depth for the purposes I wanted it for and taking over an hour per day. We're just going to do roots study starting next yr.

 

Part of my problem is I'm trying to do the TOG with both her and my 2nd grade ds, and it's too light for her. I don't care about beefing that up though; mainly I'd like to challenge her more in skills areas and prep her for 6th grade. Especially WRITING!

 

Also my ds is taking a lot of my time, as his stuff is very teacher intensive and he's at an absorbent stage of learning that I need to take advantage of.

I think this is common in hs'ing, that sometimes one dc needs the teacher more than the other for awhile and that's fine. But I don't want dd to not have work that is enough for her either.

 

Our day is:

-first I do about 1 1/2-2 hours with dd (teach her the R+S lesson, go over math, etc.) while ds works independently (copywork, Awana, etc.)

-then I reverse that-work with ds about 2 1/2 hours while she works independently (she does her R+S exercises, etc.)

-Then after lunch we do TOG together. I do try to jack up her mapwork compared to his, assign her extra projects, etc.

 

I am finding I don't have enough work for her to do in our together time OR her independent time, and none of what we're doing is stretching her the way she likes.

 

I generally find that the more teacher-intensive programs are better for challenging her (MCT, etc.) and we enjoy them, but now with adding on ds full-time, I can't do too many of those anymore-I need a variety of some teacher-intensive, some independent.

 

She is very responsible and productive, works well independently when needed, etc.

 

She is so bored compared to last year! Help! Thanks if you've managed to read this far! :)

Edited by HappyGrace
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I'd add her doing some history reading. My daughter is doing okay with the Kingfisher Encyclopedia. Assigned reading will also help her by getting reading skills and taking up some of her time. LOGIC! Oh my daughter LOVES Logic. We've done the first Mindbender book and she'd do it all day every day if she could. I think it's hard but she learned to love it from Nancy Drew computer games.

 

My daughter just spent five minutes pitching the educational opportunities of Nancy Drew computer games.

 

This is what we do here with my 10 year old DD -

Daily

*Assigned Reading (she can choose a book from a short list)

*Cursive/Grammar (MWF is Grammar, TTH are for cursive)

*Math

*PE (Wii Fit)

*AWANA (this is a combo of religion and memory work IMO)

*Chores (yes, I have to have it on my list of daily subjects to make sure it gets done *grin*)

 

Weekly

*History (SOTW, MWF, Monday is the chapter, Wednesday reading from the Kingfisher, and Friday is map work)

*Literature (I read aloud from a classic like a kids version of the Iliad)

*Art/Music (Tuesday is Art be it creation or reading a artist biography and Thursday is listening to music)

*Science/Nature (current study is about birds)

*Latin (MWF with Grandma)

*Logic (Mindbenders)

*Touch Typing

*World Religions (we're doing a drawn out study of Islam right now)

*Manners

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I would add science (without regard for what is being done in co-op).

 

If R&S seems light, why not go back to MCT? You said you don't have enough work during your together time.

 

You could assign extra reading for history and science and also assign reports to write about history and science topics. Eventually the reports could morph into assignments from Essay Voyage (just change the topics).

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She seems to be lacking critical thinking opportunities and you mentioned the writing need, so what about historical fiction along with a guide. The links below offer guides with both critical thinking assignments and writer's craft assignments

(free) http://www.glencoe.com/sec/literature/litlibrary/

(free) http://www.harpercollinschildrens.com/HarperChildrens/Teachers/TeachingResources.aspx

http://www.progenypress.com/

http://hillsideeducation.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1&zenid=44788433f0e50289eb2cf143cf313901

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Elizabeth-your schedule looks good, thanks for sharing!

 

EKS, what MCT? Voyage? I did consider that but wanted a year with diagramming. Also the grammar in MCT from year to year seems very repetitive. I like the idea of writing for history but what she needs first is actual instruction-her reports are very rambling, etc.

 

love2read-we did lit guides before (PP, Christian Novel Studies) and they were not a hit, unfortunately. I do plan to use Lightning Lit 7 next yr though. I will check out those others you mentioned too, thanks!

 

I really, really appreciate the suggestions so far-great food for thought, thank you!

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I agree on the sci, and I was just over looking at Mindbenders for Logic! I have Writing Aids, and that was my writing plan for this year, but I can't make heads or tails of it :confused: It's not enough hand-holding for me, I guess. I think I need something for writing that says do this one day, this the next, etc. I'm not like that with other curric-very confident to make it what I want, telescope, combine, etc.-but writing I need more help.

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I would not recommend MCT Essay Voyage for what you describe b/c it doesn't sound like she is ready for essay writing. Why not just forget about a writing curriculum and instead focus on writing? Haver her write one paper/week. Assign a topic on Monday and help her gather what info she needs for the assignment. Then her week might look like this: Monday gather info, discuss what elements should be included in assignment (what specific goals do you want your student to achieve?), and write an outline. Tuesday write 1/2 the assignment. Wed is writing 2nd 1/2. Thursday meet together and review the assignment. Are the objectives met? Revise and improve together. Friday final copy.

 

I would add in significantly more reading both in science and literature, but that is it.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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For writing, I would listen to SWB's writing lecture and take it from there, having her write in history and other subjects. If she's done a writing program for 3 years, it sounds like it's time for lots of practice with short, simple papers.

 

I know you want to focus on skills, but I think her boredom may well be stemming from lack of content. Her subjects look very light on content: history, science, literature. I'd definitely add in history-related reading, a science course, and literature. "Literature" might be as simple as shared reading of books she would not otherwise choose, or that are too difficult to read on her own, with casual discussion. At her age, there are lots of projects and such that she can do mostly on her own, but they need content to fuel them.

 

I'd reconsider the decision on Latin. I have found language studies to be one of the very best ways to challenge and motivate strong students. Can she simply spent x amount of time on Latin each day and be done? What was she using? Or move on to a modern language with roots study on the side? She needs more now, and a roots study and/or new language can be started at any time. My 5th grader is loving Caesar's English from MCT! You need to work with her sometimes, because the beauty of it is in the discussion, but it needn't take long each day at all.

 

She might enjoy memory work in areas other than bible. My two both like memorizing poetry (5th and 7th grades), lots of it history related, and we also do facts in various subjects.

 

Do you have a lot of supplemental books to spark her interest? Math challenge books, word puzzles, art appreciation and how to draw, beautiful history books - the key is to have a good variety for them to choose from.

 

We use Plato Science online, which means I don't need to prep or teach it. Ideally, I would be making better use of the teacher resources to match up our experiments and so forth, but so far that hasn't happened, lol. But it's a good program that they find interesting, and far better than waiting around for me to pull science together.

 

A question about your 'together' time: does your dd need/want you to go over her lessons with her before she begins? My 5th grader does, for math at least, and that's fine. But my other always preferred to work it out on her own as much as possible, which means you have more time with her to do the engaging stuff: discussion, new topics, etc. So make sure you ask her about her preferences.

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Just jumping on quick during lunch-will read more carefully later! But I did forget to mention that she is doing literature to go along with Ancients. We are mostly just both reading the books separately and then discussing. She also has a book club with friends once a month.

 

She has done much more formal lit study previously since third grade at co-op, and I plan to study it more in depth next year with LL7. I purposely went lighter on an actual study of it this year because I thought we'd have enough with TOG. I have to say though that I'm not that happy with the depth of their lit discussions, etc even in dialectic (rhetoric looks great.) We are reading and discussing, but I wish I had a little more handholding on in depth discussion of the themes of the books, etc.

 

8fill and Kat-i would like her to just do papers ala wtm but i don't feel confident examining them for content, avoiding passive writing, etc. Have to run, be back later

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8fill and Kat-i would like her to just do papers ala wtm but i don't feel confident examining them for content, avoiding passive writing, etc. Have to run, be back later

 

How are her papers being evaluated currently? I don't see the connection between a writing curriculum (which offers suggestions on proper writing skills) and evaluating assignments.

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I think you've got a lot of great advice, not sure that I have more to add. I also have a 5th grader who is academically ahead. We're using Mind Benders for Logic, but she'll finish the 4 books before the year is out. Will probably try Red Herrings after that. We're using MOH this year, but she's also outlining from Kingfisher and the Christian Liberty Nature Reader. Having her do some outlining is the only way to slow her down. We're using CLE for math and R&S for grammar, but she's a year ahead in both. I've talked to her about slowing down for grammar, but she likes it and wants to stay ahead.

 

We're using Latin for Children, but if you feel done with Latin for now, I'd consider adding Spanish or French. Are you comfortable with either language? We also use CLE Reading a year ahead and I thought about dropping it, but she wants to keep it too. She'll be finished with that soon and will have even less on her plate. She finishes her work very quickly so this worries me.

 

She's really into the Greek myths so she's decided to study for the National Mythology Exam. We're beta testing SWB's grade 5 writing this year, doing other writing per her lectures, and using IEW Ancient History based writing assignments.

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I am mulling all this over, trying to come up with a workable plan. I guess I need to first figure out if she needs more depth or breadth.

 

And in general I think the writing has me most stumped. I think I need something that tells me what to assign and then gives me a rubric for grading it.

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I am mulling all this over, trying to come up with a workable plan. I guess I need to first figure out if she needs more depth or breadth.

 

And in general I think the writing has me most stumped. I think I need something that tells me what to assign and then gives me a rubric for grading it.

 

Okay, sounds like you need something like this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Using-Rubrics-Improve-Student-Writing/dp/0872077756/ref=sr_1_35?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291088649&sr=1-35#_

 

I haven't used this particular book, but my big stack o' writing books isn't handy today. Truly, I don't love any of the "assignment" ones; I prefer to get the background. It looks good, though, I might get it myself. It tells you what kind of writing 5th graders should be capable of, gives lots of examples of strong/weak writing, and instruction on how to assess. You can probably find something similar at a local B&N or teacher store.

 

It gives specifics on developing rubrics for each style of writing (narrative, informative, etc). There are lots of books that list sample assignments, and you can find tons of lists free on the net, but I'm usually a bit 'meh' about using random assignments. Use them to get ideas on how to word an assignment, and then assign something meaningful based on your studies.

 

You can also find plenty of sample rubrics on the net, which may be enough to get you started. Like here:

http://www.rubrics4teachers.com/writing.php

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Thank you, Katilac-that book looks great-I like how they break it down by types of writing. It is very specific and I really need that! The Teacher Planet rubrics are good too. I also have the book "Evaluating Writing" by the Writing Strands guy, which tells what to look for. These would all help me evaluate her writing.

 

I was hoping to avoid having to figure this all out on my own (what to assign, types of writing broken down into assigned chunks, etc), hoping for a curric to guide me in a more step by step way, but it appears there isn't one that will do this.

 

I guess I will spend Christmas vacation trying to put something workable together!

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And in general I think the writing has me most stumped. I think I need something that tells me what to assign and then gives me a rubric for grading it.

 

I plan on using The Elegant Essay with my 5th grader after he finishes up LL7. (not due to content, but just a free spot in his schedule) I know it is for 7th and up, but you might take a look if she can already write a great paragraph. You also do not need to do the R&S writing lessons in order of the grammar lessons. You could skip ahead and have her do a few different assignments for each writing lesson.

 

I also agree with the pps that recommend typing and logic. I would do the Thinking Toolbox and this" typing program.

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