creekmom Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 My 6th grader is doing fine in pre algebra this year, so I'm looking into algebra programs for next year. I would appreciate any advice you have to offer about these 2 programs. Feel free to throw in another program if you like it better! BTW, I prefer programs that give lots of example and instruction - not a ps text that assumes the teacher doesn't need a lot of help explaining concepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 We're in a similar situation, doing pre-algebra this year for sixth. In additon to those two, I was wondering about Chalkdust. And anything else people care to share about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 (edited) My 6th grader is doing fine in pre algebra this year, so I'm looking into algebra programs for next year. I would appreciate any advice you have to offer about these 2 programs. Feel free to throw in another program if you like it better! BTW, I prefer programs that give lots of example and instruction - not a ps text that assumes the teacher doesn't need a lot of help explaining concepts. I own both but have used neither to date. I have followed the threads for a couple of years, and in general Foerster has a reputation for having better instructions. Jacobs has a reputation for not having enough instruction for some kids. They actually are very similar in how they approach math. I believe Jacobs was Foerster's student way back when. Lial's has a reputation for having the best instructions. She writes remedial college texts, so specifically for non-mathy people. She also has a video series you can add on if you like. Discovering Algebra by Key press has a lot of activities. It is discovery based, where the child does something and then learns the math behind it. The most striking thing to me in all the texts I bought (I now own about 8 Algebra 1 books) was the small print and small pictures. Discovering Algebra by Key press was the best for having a larger font and more pictures explaining things. In the end I decided to go with Kinetic books. I always hated the idea of a computer program (I love math and want to teach it), but it has great visual explanations, it stops the child if they get something wrong and starts bringing up text to learn it by again. My oldest will do a whole page wrong becuase she gets one idea in her head wrong, then she will get the wrong way stuck in her head and I end up correcting it for years. I have to admit that is our biggest reason for going with Kinetic, making her do it right from the start. Hope you find the perfect fit! Heather Edited November 20, 2010 by siloam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 We used Jacobs for algebra I and loved it. Here is a review I did of it on my blog: http://atreehouseeducation.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/favorite-resources-elementary-algebra-by-harold-jacobs/ We used Foerster for algebra II and got halfway through. We recently switched to Lial's Intermediate Algebra. We found the Foerster explanations to be lacking (and mom not able to compensate). I recently listed the pros and cons of Foerster's algebra II in this post: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223013&highlight=foerster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 (edited) I have no experience but today I happened upon this book by some Russian authors, Gelfand and Shen - looks interesting: http://www.amazon.com/Algebra-Israel-M-Gelfand/dp/0817636773/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290198835&sr=8-1 ETA: apparently this book is discussed elsewhere in the forum, including discussion of a solutions manual - just do a search on Gelfand Edited November 19, 2010 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 We used Jacobs for algebra I and loved it. Here is a review I did of it on my blog: http://atreehouseeducation.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/favorite-resources-elementary-algebra-by-harold-jacobs/ We used Foerster for algebra II and got halfway through. We recently switched to Lial's Intermediate Algebra. We found the Foerster explanations to be lacking (and mom not able to compensate). I recently listed the pros and cons of Foerster's algebra II in this post: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223013&highlight=foerster LOL! I may very well be wrong on Foerster having better directions. You just see less chatter about it, but that could also be because Jacobs is more popular all the way around. In other words, if anyone contradicts something I have said go with what they say as I don't have personal experience. :D Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 (edited) I just felt the explanations and problem sets in Foerster's were more accessible for us. Jacob's is kinda chatty and cute (think LOF), while Foerster's is more just the facts. Foerster's also includes some killer word problems that are quite the challenge. I do reference Jacob's occasionally when I need more information or further explanation. It's also a solid text. Can you get your hands on a copy of both? It really helps to page through to get a feel for the authors' style. We're in chapter 9 of Foerster's and should complete the text sometime this spring. We began it halfway through 7th grade, so we'll have spent a year and a half working our way through it. It is a challenging text; it's not really for the student or parent that can't or won't make a solid commitment to it. If you have a young student, younger than 7th or 8th grade, I'd suggest prior to either Foerster's or Jacob's using an easier more introductory text like MUS or TT. Algebra can be a pretty big leap and having a gentle introduction can just make the transition more enjoyable. Also, I think lecture dvd's are available for both Forester's and Jacob's. You can get a companion for Foerster's from Math Without Borders: http://www.mathwithoutborders.com/ I don't remember the name of the Jacob's dvd producer. Maybe some else can chime in with it, or you can search the HS board. Edited November 20, 2010 by Stacy in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 We are using Lial's Beginning Algebra and doing well. I wish the font was larger though. We used Lial's Basic College Mathematics for pre-algebra. I will be using Jacob's Geometry again; it worked very well for dd. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 It's an excellent, "mathy" book but has no answer key, though the text itself has worked answers to some of the problems. It's not at all in the format of a traditional textbook. I can't comment on Jacob's, but for my first algebra student, we used Thinkwell with the DVDs, which was OK. For my current student, I am using Foerster's and I like it a lot, better than Thinkwell. I think the problem was not so much with Thinkwell, but more that child-he didn't learn particularly well from lectures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Starting with an intro is an excellent suggestion. The first half of seventh grade, my son and I worked through a book called Creative Problem Solving in School Mathematics that is available from the Art of Problem Solving site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 LOL! I may very well be wrong on Foerster having better directions. You just see less chatter about it, but that could also be because Jacobs is more popular all the way around. In other words, if anyone contradicts something I have said go with what they say as I don't have personal experience. :D Heather You could be right--we didn't use Foerster for algebra I. Jacobs gives an introduction but the instruction is really in the problem sets. Since I'm pretty strong in algebra I, I was able to compensate for lack of instruction in the text, but I'm weaker in algebra II, and so I can't pick up the slack as easily. Fortunately, the Lial book is *very* clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratia271 Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 I have used Foerster with great results. I have found it to be sufficiently challenging to my oldest with novel problem solving thrown into the mix, particularly the practical word problems. As someone else stated, there is a dvd sold by Math Without Borders that provides detailed instruction for those who prefer that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 My 6th grader is doing fine in pre algebra this year, so I'm looking into algebra programs for next year. I would appreciate any advice you have to offer about these 2 programs. Feel free to throw in another program if you like it better! BTW, I prefer programs that give lots of example and instruction - not a ps text that assumes the teacher doesn't need a lot of help explaining concepts. I love Foerster. I believe the teaching in the text is excellent and his word problems get to the heart of the matter. If your student can complete the word problems, he understands what he is doing. I have never used Jacob's alg 1, only geo (2nd ed). That text was fine content-wise but my ds begged me to change to something different b/c Jacobs is just so verbose. Foerster and Jacobs have completely different teaching styles. Foerster is more concise. His sense of humor comes through in the word problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleinMN Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 I have owned both but kept Foerster's Algebra 1. I used it with both my older children, and am now using it with my third child. I did decide to get the MathwithoutBorders dvd because child number 4 will prefer to be able to work alone as much as possible. Foerster's Algebra is about the only book I know I intend to use for ALL my children. All that to say I strongly prefer Foerster's, but I don't care for Jacobs' Geometry either, so I guess his style in general doesn't appeal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 It's an excellent, "mathy" book but has no answer key, though the text itself has worked answers to some of the problems. It's not at all in the format of a traditional textbook. FWIW, this afternoon I was poking around and saw a couple of old posts discussing an answer key that was created by someone for Gelfand's algebra book. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1837153&highlight=gelfand#post1837153 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1665200&highlight=gelfand#post1665200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Myrtle's dh wrote the solutions manual and there is a great review on her blog. I don't know what happened to her, last she posted she was fine, but that was back in 2009. :001_huh: I think she just unplugged from everything online. Her blog still has a lot of great information on math programs. Drat These Geeks! I do miss her and her sense of humor. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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