Introducing the concept of Outlining

[rootsnwings]

How do you go about it? I tried earlier in the year to SHOW my ds how to outline a section from SOTW but DANG that's a lot!!!! Would it be easier to outline from the encyclopedia? Which one do you recommend? I've heard mixed reviews on kingfisher & need to look into something for him SOON.

 

Are there books to help me teach outlining? :confused:

 

TIA!! :D

[Sebastian (a lady)]

How do you go about it? I tried earlier in the year to SHOW my ds how to outline a section from SOTW but DANG that's a lot!!!! Would it be easier to outline from the encyclopedia? Which one do you recommend? I've heard mixed reviews on kingfisher & need to look into something for him SOON.

 

Are there books to help me teach outlining? :confused:

 

TIA!! :D

 

Well, that is a major focus of the 5th grade writing program that SWB is working on, but that probably won't be ready for a while.

 

If I remember correctly, there is a listing of suggested history spines in the newest edition of WTM. The list sort of ranks possible spines from easiest to most complex.

 

I think that the logic stage history chapter of Well Trained Mind goes into some of the steps for teaching summarizing and outlining.

 

What I've been telling my kids is to take each paragraph of a two page spread and write one sentence that summarizes the paragraph.

[Testimony]

I like the key word outline idea.

 

I did it with my son in Writing Tales 2. That program taught two ways to outline. Either by drawing pictures or by writing the key words. My older son did it and my younger son is doing it. It is a nice way to learn how to outline since it is non-threatening to draw a picture. I loved that idea that I had my sons do their summarizations that way for Shakespeare. It made that fun!

 

Also, Story of the World volume 4's Activities Guide uses outlining to help the child summarize. I do it every other time. Towards the end of the book, the AG has the child write a summarization from an outline. It is a good method. The only problem is I want my child to learn how to outline first. I used what we learn from Writing Tales to help us.

 

Blessings in your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[tjarnold]

Subscribing to this thread as we need all the help that we can get with this ...

[Jamee]

We've been starting with the one level outlines and that has been going well. I found that most public school text books are set up for easy outlining--such as Science Explorers. With their headings, DS can see what sections the book takes as important. I recently had him take the main idea from a short reading that he did and just do the one-level outline.

[JudoMom]

My older 2 boys have almost completed this outlining workbook by Remedia. They have learned so much. When they finish, they'll move to outlining something from their reading, but they've already used outlining to help them write speeches for a public speaking organization we're in.

[Mommyfaithe]

Well, I am teaching outlining in the same manner I teach most writing.

 

Step 1: Copy Outlines (we will be doing this for 9 weeks...and we are almost finished...daily copyuwork.)

 

Step 2 : Provide the main point...then dictate the sub points

 

Step 3 Provide the main point....have dd find the supporting details...any reasonable details are acceptable

 

Step 4: have dd write her own outlines from Science and History sections of text books.

 

This will teach a 2 level outline which I hope she has perfected by the end of this year.

 

PLUS: I will expect her to begin writing paragraphs or summaries from these outlines after step 2.

 

Next year I will teach 3 and 4 level outlines in the 1st quarter and continue writing across the curricula with these outlines. I also will teach taking 2 or 3 outlines and combining them into 1 longer expository essay. This will take us into high school writing.....

 

IOW: copy, dictate, create your own, expand on your learning.

 

hth,

Faithe

[Verity]

We have used both History Odyssey to learn outlining (they use Kingfisher and give examples in their lessons before assigning it independently) and IEW for learning key word outlines. You can download the first 6-8 weeks of History Odyssey to see how they approach it, I believe that the Ancients level 2 is where we picked it up. For IEW we haven't bought the full program but just used a theme-based writing lessons. My middle son started Fables, Myths and Fairy Tales this week to learn key word outlining.

 

I have my older son learning several different kinds of outlines and summaries. It has been a bit confusing for him but now in our second year of it I think he's starting to see the light.

With standard "oldfashioned" outlining of KF I have had to sit with him and lead him through it several times due to inability to pick out the most important ideas. I would blame this on his Aspergers; however, my experience interning in middle school's leads me to think it's pretty normal for the age range.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Verity

[Capt_Uhura]

Verity - I'm doing History Odyssey Ancients level 2 right now. We're only on lesson 7. Do you recall what lesson outlining is introduced?

 

THanks,

Capt_Uhura

[Tammyla]

My ds used Writing Trails in American History, that made outlining so simple. He learned to outline without stress and completely understands the process.

 

Writing Trails in American History

By: Laurie Barrie

Logos Press / 2000 / Paperback

5 out of 5 stars(2 Reviews)$14.99 (CBD Price)

Availability: In Stock

CBD Stock No: WW5473119

[Stacy in NJ]

It's a bit less detailed than Kingfisher.

 

I sit next to my kiddo, he reads the first paragraph, I place my hand over the paragraph and ask him what he just read. We discuss briefly, I remind him of any relevant information, he rereads the paragraph if necessary. I then guide him into writing a one level outline for that paragraph. We move on to the next paragraph. We do the first 4 or 5 paragraphs initially. Have a look at the outline examples in TWTM; I found them helpful. A 5th grader only needs to write one level (one abbreviated sentence per paragraph). By the end of 5th grade he should be able to outline one level without your assistance.

 

If you start in 5th grade, by the time your kiddo is in 8th he'll find multi-level outlining an ease.

 

ETA: If you have the 2nd edition of the WTM have a look at page 280. Some brief outlining info can be found there.

 

I also just want to offer a little encouragement here. Last year, ds, then a 5th grader, found outlining pretty difficult. This year as a 6th grader he prefers it to reading SOTW and can whip out a 2 level outline in no time at all. We're going to set aside Usborne soon and pick up with Kingfisher because it offers a bit more challenge.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Stacy in NJ

[Jane Elliot]

My ds used Writing Trails in American History, that made outlining so simple. He learned to outline without stress and completely understands the process.

 

Writing Trails in American History

By: Laurie Barrie

Logos Press / 2000 / Paperback

5 out of 5 stars(2 Reviews)$14.99 (CBD Price)

Availability: In Stock

CBD Stock No: WW5473119

 

This is on a shelf downstairs. I haven't looked at it for awhile. Doesn't it teach key word outlines? Did you use it differently?

[CoastalGal]

My older 2 boys have almost completed this outlining workbook by Remedia. They have learned so much. When they finish, they'll move to outlining something from their reading...

 

:iagree: -- we *love* this book.

[Laurie in Life]

I think that the logic stage history chapter of Well Trained Mind goes into some of the steps for teaching summarizing and outlining.

 

What I've been telling my kids is to take each paragraph of a two page spread and write one sentence that summarizes the paragraph.

 

 

When my kids sit down to do write their one sentence for each paragraph, I remind them of SWB/WTM's questions:

 

1. What is the main thing or person the paragraph is about?

2. Why is that thing or person important?

[SailorMom]

:iagree: -- we *love* this book.

 

Us too (the Remedia press one ) - it was perfect.

[Tammyla]

Yes, it does teach key word outlining, and I was hesitant. I think OhE recommend it along with a few other boardies. The logical and easy to follow instructions just clicked for ds, and transitioning to traditional outlines was super easy. ymmv

 

This is on a shelf downstairs. I haven't looked at it for awhile. Doesn't it teach key word outlines? Did you use it differently?

[Jane Elliot]

Yes, it does teach key word outlining, and I was hesitant. I think OhE recommend it along with a few other boardies. The logical and easy to follow instructions just clicked for ds, and transitioning to traditional outlines was super easy. ymmv

 

Thanks for the clarification. It's been several years since I used it, and I was wondering if I should pull it off the shelf to work on traditional outlines. I teach my dc both KWO and traditional, but unfortunately in our house the transition from KWO to traditional just doesn't seem so simple lately. My current logic stage girls have KWO down pat, but I'm still having to do a lot of hand-holding with the traditional outlines.

[Narrow Gate Academy]

When my kids sit down to do write their one sentence for each paragraph, I remind them of SWB/WTM's questions:

 

1. What is the main thing or person the paragraph is about?

2. Why is that thing or person important?

 

This is similar to what we do. We look at one paragraph at a time and try to summarize the paragraph in one sentence. Write it out in correct outline format with roman numerals, and you end up with a level one outline. I've never tried to outline SOTW. Sections of Apologia elementary or chapters from Guerber history books or Famous Men books work well. We also add a bit of this with CW Aesop at some point during 4th grade to start moving away from key word outlines. HTH

[MomsintheGarden]

I have taught my three oldest to outline using the old white Kingfisher (they also did a lot of keyword outlines using IEW). I am now working with my fourth child, a fifth grader on one-level outlines. It works best for us to have intensive tutoring sessions.

 

Here's what we do:

1. He must read the 2-page spread + the picture captions and the sidebars before "class." He also must get his paper ready. I taught him how to prepare his paper in our first class this year. He almost always orients the paper correctly:tongue_smilie:.

2. He reads the first paragraph out loud to me.

3. We discuss what the paragraph means. I make sure he understands it.

4. I ask him what the main idea is, and gently coach him if I feel he is way off track. Since it is subjective, we often discuss the possibilities.

5. I have him tell me the main idea in a complete sentence.

6. He writes down the sentence. I tell him to check for mechanics, then I check him.

7. We go to the next paragraph.

8. When we're done, I have him read his outline to me.

9. We work very gradually toward my goal of (mostly) complete independence by the end of the school year. Sometimes I talk about how we would do a 2-level outline, depending on what kind of mood we're in.

 

This is a tedious process, especially at first, but I've found one-on-one works best for us, especially with children who have a hard time picking out the main idea. I am often folding laundry, cooking a meal, or checking math papers when we work together - that way I don't go completely bonkers.

 

It has worked beautifully with my 5th grader. It is mid-November, and he now does most outlining on his own. He also does Rod & Staff 5, and is not having any trouble with their outlining lessons. I like how he has outlining taught in two different ways.

 

HTH,

GardenMom

Edited November 18, 2010 by MomsintheGarden

[Colleen in NS]

When my kids sit down to do write their one sentence for each paragraph, I remind them of SWB/WTM's questions:

 

1. What is the main thing or person the paragraph is about?

2. Why is that thing or person important?

 

Yes, yes, yes! These instructions from the 2009 WTM were SO helpful to me in teaching how to outline. So simple, yet so thorough. My son caught on to this much better than to my long, drawn out explanations of how to outline a paragraph.

 

OP, you can outline from any well-written piece that you like. Use any reading material that you like from science or history, to teach the skill of outlining. I think portions of SOTW are just fine for practicing outlining, as one example. I don't, however, have my son practice outlining from the red KF book. It's too compressed. I use the KF as a "spine," but then ds outlines from supplementary library reading or World Book encyclopedia reading.

 

P.S. another idea, though, is to find a used copy of the older white KF book - this has paragraphs that are much easier to outline (and more enjoyable to read), if you want him to practice from just one resource.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Colleen in NS

[johnandtinagilbert]

I blogged about this here. It's easy, it's organic, and you can use most anything with this instruction.

[tjarnold]

I have taught my three oldest to outline using the Kingfisher (they also did a lot of keyword outlines using IEW). I am now working with my fourth child, a fifth grader on one-level outlines. It works best for us to have intensive tutoring sessions.

 

Here's what we do:

1. He must read the 2-page spread + the picture captions and the sidebars before "class." He also must get his paper ready. I taught him how to prepare his paper in our first class this year. He almost always orients the paper correctly:tongue_smilie:.

2. He reads the first paragraph out loud to me.

3. We discuss what the paragraph means. I make sure he understands it.

4. I ask him what the main idea is, and gently coach him if I feel he is way off track. Since it is subjective, we often discuss the possibilities.

5. I have him tell me the main idea in a complete sentence.

6. He writes down the sentence. I tell him to check for mechanics, then I check him.

7. We go to the next paragraph.

8. When we're done, I have him read his outline to me.

9. We work very gradually toward my goal of (mostly) complete independence by the end of the school year. Sometimes I talk about how we would do a 2-level outline, depending on what kind of mood we're in.

 

This is a tedious process, especially at first, but I've found one-on-one works best for us, especially with children who have a hard time picking out the main idea. I am often folding laundry, cooking a meal, or checking math papers when we work together - that way I don't go completely bonkers.

 

It has worked beautifully with my 5th grader. It is mid-November, and he now does most outlining on his own. He also does Rod & Staff 5, and is not having any trouble with their outlining lessons. I like how he has outlining taught in two different ways.

 

HTH,

GardenMom

 

Hi, GardenMom!

 

You always do such a great job explaining your teaching process. Thank you for explaining in such detail.

 

Could you tell me which Kingfisher edition you use? Copyright date? I believe I read somewhere that there is an older version and a newer version.

 

Thanks,

 

Tiffany

 

P.S. Hope the spelling prep is going well!

[Gratia271]

P.S. another idea, though, is to find a used copy of the older white KF book - this has paragraphs that are much easier to outline (and more enjoyable to read), if you want him to practice from just one resource.

 

That is what we did. It worked beautifully!

 

ETA: We own both editions of Kingfisher, and my oldest DD resoundingly chose the older edition which is here.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Gratia271

[MomsintheGarden]

Hi, GardenMom!

 

You always do such a great job explaining your teaching process. Thank you for explaining in such detail.

 

Could you tell me which Kingfisher edition you use? Copyright date? I believe I read somewhere that there is an older version and a newer version.

 

Thanks,

 

Tiffany

 

P.S. Hope the spelling prep is going well!

 

Hi Tiffany - great to "see" you!

 

We have two copies of the once highly coveted "white" version. I have no idea what the current Kf edition is.

 

Here's what we have:

The Kingfisher Illustrated History of the World, Copyright 1992, ISBN 1-85697-862-1.

 

Shortly after the original WTM was published in 1999, the recommended "white" Kf went out of print. It was replaced by the unpopular "red" edition denounced on the old WTM boards. We bought the "red" book and didn't like it, either (I gave it away). I was able to get remaindered copies of the older book, but other families were too late. A bit of a frenzy ensued, with panicked homeschooling moms driving up the price until it was selling for over $200 on ebay. Folks would post about where they found it and how much they paid. SWB said that PHP had a copy of the old white book that they brought to homeschooling conventions to show people. It was stolen.

 

The furor has died down, and today there are 57 copies available on Amazon starting at $3.90, all ready to be snapped up by wonderful conscientious homeschoolers.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=1-85697-862-1&x=0&y=0

 

Blessings,

GardenMom

 

P.S. Spelling is going well. CWL is recorded, SI is being reviewed this week. I hope it's going well for your family, too! We need to PM each other sometime...

[dcjlkplus3]

I haven't read all the posts, so someone might have already said this... or it may be completely irrelevant... :tongue_smilie:

 

We are doing SOTW 4 this year (oldest dd is 9 and in 4th grade). Instead of doing narrations, it is set up to "complete the outline" for each section. I really like the way that it is gently introducing her to the concept of outlining that she will be officially starting next year.

[Jane Elliot]

I haven't read all the posts, so someone might have already said this... or it may be completely irrelevant... :tongue_smilie:

 

We are doing SOTW 4 this year (oldest dd is 9 and in 4th grade). Instead of doing narrations, it is set up to "complete the outline" for each section. I really like the way that it is gently introducing her to the concept of outlining that she will be officially starting next year.

 

:iagree: I'm always happy for my budding logic stage dc if we end up on SOTW4 when they're around 9 or 10yo. It's working out well for my 10yo this year.

[Paula in PA]

The furor has died down, and today there are 57 copies available on Amazon starting at $3.90, all ready to be snapped up by wonderful conscientious homeschoolers.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=1-85697-862-1&x=0&y=0

 

Blessings,

GardenMom

 

 

Thanks for the tip! I just ordered one for us. :001_smile:

 

We've worked on outlining off and on over the last 2 years using different sources, including KWO from IEW and CW. It's been the method described in the WTM (and WWS beta) that have resonated best with my dd.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Well, that is a major focus of the 5th grade writing program that SWB is working on, but that probably won't be ready for a while.

 

If I remember correctly, there is a listing of suggested history spines in the newest edition of WTM. The list sort of ranks possible spines from easiest to most complex.

 

I think that the logic stage history chapter of Well Trained Mind goes into some of the steps for teaching summarizing and outlining.

 

What I've been telling my kids is to take each paragraph of a two page spread and write one sentence that summarizes the paragraph.

 

One thing that we have also done is to start with learning to summarize in a paragraph before teaching how to outline. I think a lot of kids have skills at writing a narrative style paragraph, where the 1 and 2 point outline looks rather foreign.

 

You might want to make copies of a couple pages from your text to outline. Then your kid can mark up the copy with what are the main ideas.

 

Also, we've been testing the forthcoming SWB writing curriculum and one of the things she does is teach outlining over a couple days/sessions. So the first day you would pick the main idea of each paragraph. The next day you would pick 2-3 supporting ideas or details for each of the main ideas. Chunking it this way seemed to make the new concept go down easier.

[Monkey Island Academy]

:lurk5:

[Veritaserum]

It's a bit less detailed than Kingfisher.

 

I sit next to my kiddo, he reads the first paragraph, I place my hand over the paragraph and ask him what he just read. We discuss briefly, I remind him of any relevant information, he rereads the paragraph if necessary. I then guide him into writing a one level outline for that paragraph. We move on to the next paragraph. We do the first 4 or 5 paragraphs initially. Have a look at the outline examples in TWTM; I found them helpful. A 5th grader only needs to write one level (one abbreviated sentence per paragraph). By the end of 5th grade he should be able to outline one level without your assistance.

 

If you start in 5th grade, by the time your kiddo is in 8th he'll find multi-level outlining an ease.

 

ETA: If you have the 2nd edition of the WTM have a look at page 280. Some brief outlining info can be found there.

 

I also just want to offer a little encouragement here. Last year, ds, then a 5th grader, found outlining pretty difficult. This year as a 6th grader he prefers it to reading SOTW and can whip out a 2 level outline in no time at all. We're going to set aside Usborne soon and pick up with Kingfisher because it offers a bit more challenge.

 

That's what I've been doing with my dd10 (5th grade).

[cschnee]

Just listening in too.

 

Thanks

[Halcyon]

Listening in. Ordered the old KF-been wanting that--thanks for pointing out its availability :)

[tjarnold]

Hi Tiffany - great to "see" you!

 

We have two copies of the once highly coveted "white" version. I have no idea what the current Kf edition is.

 

Here's what we have:

The Kingfisher Illustrated History of the World, Copyright 1992, ISBN 1-85697-862-1.

 

Shortly after the original WTM was published in 1999, the recommended "white" Kf went out of print. It was replaced by the unpopular "red" edition denounced on the old WTM boards. We bought the "red" book and didn't like it, either (I gave it away). I was able to get remaindered copies of the older book, but other families were too late. A bit of a frenzy ensued, with panicked homeschooling moms driving up the price until it was selling for over $200 on ebay. Folks would post about where they found it and how much they paid. SWB said that PHP had a copy of the old white book that they brought to homeschooling conventions to show people. It was stolen.

 

The furor has died down, and today there are 57 copies available on Amazon starting at $3.90, all ready to be snapped up by wonderful conscientious homeschoolers.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=1-85697-862-1&x=0&y=0

 

Blessings,

GardenMom

 

P.S. Spelling is going well. CWL is recorded, SI is being reviewed this week. I hope it's going well for your family, too! We need to PM each other sometime...

 

Thanks for the tip, GardenMom, not to mention the anecdotes about the different editions. I ordered a copy from your link.

 

So glad to hear about the spelling. T has been working on NNN. Fun, fun, fun!

 

Tiffany

[angela in ohio]

I can tell you how I teach oulining to my dc and to the outside students I teach:

 

I explain that there is no one "outlining." What needs to be done will depend on the material and the purpose. Is it to keep a record of what you read? To study for a test? To write a paper?

 

For outlining to take notes of a text, I teach them in increments, starting with just two levels:

 

1. I show them how to look for section headings. We use these for one level of the outline, and then we find one fact per paragraph under that. It can just be what they think is interesting or important. This is the most basic level, and it just gets them putting words down on paper.

 

2. I teach them how to turn the section heading into a question, then find statements that answer the question within the material. So if the section heading is "Photosynthesis," the questions could be "What is photosynthesis? How does it work?" I teach them to use the old who, what, when, where, why, and how, depending on which works for the topic. They would find the answers to these questions and put them under photosynthesis in their outline. Some headings lend themselves to questions really well, so I try to start with a resource with pretty detailed headings. So instead of writing one interesting fact, they now write the most relevant facts that will sum up the section, based on the heading.

 

3. Alternately, if the headings won't work, or if there aren't sections, I teach them to read a few pararaphs at a time and decide what the most important facts are. I teach them to ask: "If Mrs. ___ was going to test me on this, what would she ask me? If I was going to tell my dad about what I read, what would I say?"

 

4. I teach them how to make an outline using both phrases and sentences, so that they are equipped to do either.

 

Most students will work on this for quite a while. A few start branching out and making three or four level outlines on their own; if not, I teach it for high school.

 

I also teach KWO for writing reports and essays, but that is a different process. :D Although one lends itself to teaching the other more easily, they are different skills that need to be taught.

 

For any skill, I always try to teach them how to "teacher" their own brain by asking questions. I won't always be there to ask the questions or lead them along, so the sooner they learn and practice asking their own brain questions, the better off they will be.

[Capt_Uhura]

So in your outline for taking notes, the section title is I. and the main ideas are the A. B. C. D. and those might come from different paragraphs. Yes that is how I do it as well. Recently, I realized there were different types of outlines but I haven't really seen that spelled out anywhere.