We made our curriculum change and it's great...

[Knittinfarmgirl]

I am enjoying this thread...

The main problem is that I want my kids to study together. I think that if they are studying together it will flow over to their play, dinner conversation, etc. and maybe bring us all closer. It just seems to me that it should be this way...

I have really been looking at MFW. I would love to combine all of my dc. I am almost ready to sell HOD and buy MFW to start after the new year. This thread is really convincing me that this is the way to go.

 

:iagree: This is exactly how I feel. We've been using HOD this year. This thread is perfectly timed!

 

Thanks so much, Donna T., for talking 'out loud' about your experience. :)

[abrightmom]

I have a love/hate relationship with this thread :D. I love many things about HOD and MFW. We are using MFW Adventures right now and it's great . .. .very happy with it. However, as I look ahead I don't see how combining would work. Honestly, I used to think it was the "solution" but I'm wondering if teaching separately (which we have to do for skill subjects) is better because the resources are more age/interest appropriate. Teaching to the olders results in my youngers being left out, losing interest in the material/resources used or not being nourished at their learning level.

 

Perhaps an experienced MFW user can give an example of how Marie guides us in teaching to the olders and youngers simultaneously. I have been poring over my samples of CtoG and RtoR this morning and I don't see it (in CtoG there is a label "Advanced" with readings from Streams, I think. Perhaps that is an example?). I assume, based on the week samples I have, that in these particular weeks the youngers are doing all that the olders are doing. It falls to Mom to modify, yes? Maybe there are more specifics in other weeks! I'd LOVE to see those plans laid out.

 

I do think the MFW grid schedule is beautifully organized. I'm very happy with how she balances out the learning across the subjects. I also like how HOD begins to help Mom move an older child toward independent work and also encourages a child to have a devotional time. She mentors Mom in teaching that. It's awesome.

 

It is very difficult to choose and to KNOW without TRYING what works best. Ugh. I'm swinging away from wanting to combine and toward wanting to separate other than something unifying such as a read-aloud and some Bible Study done as a group. I just think my youngers would be lost in the mix (we already experience this) and I'd be focused on the olders using MFW. With HOD the olders are combined into one at their learning/skill level with slight modifications (for the younger) while the youngers are in their own program at their skill/learning/interest level. We'd choose something from either program to "share" such as a devotional or Bible Study component.

 

Both programs are Bible rich and lovely. I WISH there was a way to merge them into one. I think about it a lot :D. If only . . . .

[Donna T.]

:iagree: This is exactly how I feel. We've been using HOD this year. This thread is perfectly timed!

 

Thanks so much, Donna T., for talking 'out loud' about your experience. :)

 

Oh, you are welcome! :001_smile:

 

But, I have to say one more time... I LOVE HOD and I wish I had not had to make this change at all. I love so much about it. I love the guides, how perfectly organized it is, the quality of the books that are used, the way the company operates... just about everything. I will continue to use the poetry lessons and we are going to start the watercolor lessons in CTC sooner or later. However, on the plus side, we were done with school today by lunch and the kids are excited about going to the library this afternoon to find books for their book basket. We rarely had time for that last year. I can already tell that my load is probably about half of what it would have been if both were using HOD this year. When we used HOD, they both wanted to do each other's program so it's almost like both of them were doing two, almost full, guides. They wanted to sit in on everything that their sibling was doing so they really were already combined, it's just that I was teaching two guides to accomplish that. I almost feel guilty, this seems much lighter to me.

[MrsMe]

I have a love/hate relationship with this thread :D. I love many things about HOD and MFW. We are using MFW Adventures right now and it's great . .. .very happy with it. However, as I look ahead I don't see how combining would work. Honestly, I used to think it was the "solution" but I'm wondering if teaching separately (which we have to do for skill subjects) is better because the resources are more age/interest appropriate. Teaching to the olders results in my youngers being left out, losing interest in the material/resources used or not being nourished at their learning level.

 

Perhaps an experienced MFW user can give an example of how Marie guides us in teaching to the olders and youngers simultaneously. I have been poring over my samples of CtoG and RtoR this morning and I don't see it (in CtoG there is a label "Advanced" with readings from Streams, I think. Perhaps that is an example?). I assume, based on the week samples I have, that in these particular weeks the youngers are doing all that the olders are doing. It falls to Mom to modify, yes? Maybe there are more specifics in other weeks! I'd LOVE to see those plans laid out.

 

I do think the MFW grid schedule is beautifully organized. I'm very happy with how she balances out the learning across the subjects. I also like how HOD begins to help Mom move an older child toward independent work and also encourages a child to have a devotional time. She mentors Mom in teaching that. It's awesome.

 

It is very difficult to choose and to KNOW without TRYING what works best. Ugh. I'm swinging away from wanting to combine and toward wanting to separate other than something unifying such as a read-aloud and some Bible Study done as a group. I just think my youngers would be lost in the mix (we already experience this) and I'd be focused on the olders using MFW. With HOD the olders are combined into one at their learning/skill level with slight modifications (for the younger) while the youngers are in their own program at their skill/learning/interest level. We'd choose something from either program to "share" such as a devotional or Bible Study component.

 

Both programs are Bible rich and lovely. I WISH there was a way to merge them into one. I think about it a lot :D. If only . . . .

 

I'm not sure on CTG and RTR but 1850 if you look at the very bottom of the grid sample, it has a schedule for younger children; the last 3 rows of boxes or so.

[abrightmom]

I'm not sure on CTG and RTR but 1850 if you look at the very bottom of the grid sample, it has a schedule for younger children; the last 3 rows of boxes or so.

:001_smile: Thanks. I just took a peek at that. (I'm on a coffee break :D)

[Donna A.]

However, as I look ahead I don't see how combining would work. Honestly, I used to think it was the "solution" but I'm wondering if teaching separately (which we have to do for skill subjects) is better because the resources are more age/interest appropriate. Teaching to the olders results in my youngers being left out, losing interest in the material/resources used or not being nourished at their learning level.

 

Perhaps an experienced MFW user can give an example of how Marie guides us in teaching to the olders and youngers simultaneously. I have been poring over my samples of CtoG and RtoR this morning and I don't see it (in CtoG there is a label "Advanced" with readings from Streams, I think. Perhaps that is an example?). I assume, based on the week samples I have, that in these particular weeks the youngers are doing all that the olders are doing. It falls to Mom to modify, yes? Maybe there are more specifics in other weeks! I'd LOVE to see those plans laid out.

 

Go back and re-read my posts in this thread. ;) You can also go to the MFW forums to find out how different families are combining. Remember the Hazell's raised 6 kids and taught their children together as well. They're all about efficiency! Part of their goal is to get school done so that they can be about the business of working, either in the family business or ministry, etc. (Esp now that their youngest is 14 or so.) But yes, the example you gave re: Streams for advanced students is ONE example. I can't do it right now, but later on this afternoon or evening I'll pull up the samples from CTG and RTR to look at and explain exactly how *I* would do those lessons.

 

Also, have you ever seen a MFW TM in person? That would make a difference, too. It's hard to know from just looking at samples, that's true. Marie has lots of teaching notes at the front of the TM that aren't shown in the online samples, and I think, based on some comments I've seen over the years, that a lot of moms forget about those notes. *I* even forget sometimes! :tongue_smilie:

 

Part of it, too, is just understanding how multi-level learning *works*. It's NOT a "teach the oldest while the younger ones get lost in the crowd" type of thing. That's a misrepresentation of how it plays out. It also neglects the fact that younger children can only do so much *anyway*, so even if you're using a grade-level specific program with a 2nd grader (for example), they aren't ever going to do as much as a 7th grader.

 

Every child will always do math and LA at their own level. That's always true no matter what program you're using.... even in multi-level learning programs.

 

I have to run for now, but maybe if you do some browsing in the MFW archives, you can see a little bit of what others have done with multiple ages: http://board.mfwbooks.com/

 

If Donna T. can edit the subject line of this thread, it might bring more MFW users into the discussion. It caught my attention because I'd had some PM conversations with her a week or two ago and I was wondering how she was doing. Other MFW users might not realize that, so haven't chimed in yet. :001_smile:

[Donna A.]

Both programs are Bible rich and lovely. I WISH there was a way to merge them into one. I think about it a lot :D. If only . . . .

 

You mean like Heart of My Father's World? :lol:

[abrightmom]

Go back and re-read my posts in this thread. ;) You can also go to the MFW forums to find out how different families are combining. Remember the Hazell's raised 6 kids and taught their children together as well. They're all about efficiency! Part of their goal is to get school done so that they can be about the business of working, either in the family business or ministry, etc. (Esp now that their youngest is 14 or so.) But yes, the example you gave re: Streams for advanced students is ONE example. I can't do it right now, but later on this afternoon or evening I'll pull up the samples from CTG and RTR to look at and explain exactly how *I* would do those lessons.

 

Also, have you ever seen a MFW TM in person? That would make a difference, too. It's hard to know from just looking at samples, that's true. Marie has lots of teaching notes at the front of the TM that aren't shown in the online samples, and I think, based on some comments I've seen over the years, that a lot of moms forget about those notes. *I* even forget sometimes! :tongue_smilie:

 

Part of it, too, is just understanding how multi-level learning *works*. It's NOT a "teach the oldest while the younger ones get lost in the crowd" type of thing. That's a misrepresentation of how it plays out. It also neglects the fact that younger children can only do so much *anyway*, so even if you're using a grade-level specific program with a 2nd grader (for example), they aren't ever going to do as much as a 7th grader.

 

Every child will always do math and LA at their own level. That's always true no matter what program you're using.... even in multi-level learning programs.

 

I have to run for now, but maybe if you do some browsing in the MFW archives, you can see a little bit of what others have done with multiple ages: http://board.mfwbooks.com/

 

If Donna T. can edit the subject line of this thread, it might bring more MFW users into the discussion. It caught my attention because I'd had some PM conversations with her a week or two ago and I was wondering how she was doing. Other MFW users might not realize that, so haven't chimed in yet. :001_smile:

 

Thanks Donna! I did go back and read those. VERY helpful and detailed. I appreciate the fact that samples are JUST samples. :001_smile: And, that Marie's notes in the beginning of the TM will flesh out HOW to multi-teach. It almost makes sense to try to buy a used TM in order to live with it for awhile. I may do just that :D.

 

No program/curriculum/combo/etc. is going to be perfect. I suppose I'm on a quest for just that and I'd REALLY appreciate a glimpse into the future so I know in advance how it will all work out.......then again, my faith would turn to jelly if that were the case. Must...pray...more!!

 

You mean like Heart of My Father's World? :lol:

Glorious! :001_smile::001_smile:

[Knittinfarmgirl]

You mean like Heart of My Father's World? :lol:

 

;) Had this thought myself.

[cbollin]

I

 

Perhaps an experienced MFW user can give an example of how Marie guides us in teaching to the olders and youngers simultaneously.

 

I'm probably repeating what Donna A has said, or maybe I'm thinking of a different thread I recently wrote some of my experiences.

 

Sometimes it is which books are used. in CTG: everyone is going to use the Bible readings. Some of the readings sometimes will be marked as Advanced, so younger kids can listen or go do something else (break, or independent work or something like that). Younger children will do Ancient World, and the Egypt activity book, and all activities. Then, older children will do much of that too, and sometimes get readings from Streams of Civ. Book basket is always individual.

Then jr. high students in CTG have the option to do more research with the specific projects in the chapters of Streams. So, many times the book in MFW themselves have sections for advanced and multi age options. So it's not as super obvious on the sample.

 

RTR: same kind of thing. Everyone does books like Ancient World, Medieval World, SOTW together. Older kiddos do Aug. Ceasar World (and younger ones can listen in if they want to. Nothing wrong with introducing them to older level read alouds in small doses either.)

 

EX1850: there is a supplemental younger student grid to sub out the history readings for world history and focus instead on US history and literature. And there are 2 paths on the Bible memory work. One for younger kids (plan B) and one for older kids (plan A). book basket is multi level. So, it's all on in one manual there.

 

1850MOD: because the content of world history in modern times even with SOTW can be hardest to digest below 4th grade level, MFW puts little asterisk or some kind of box, by the SOTW readings. This indicates that younger kids don't have to do that, but instead they do the younger supplement for US history and US geography. Everyone does Bible together. I found that when I did 1850MOD with 6th and 3rd grader, my 3rd grader had plenty from the US history/geography focus, but we still invited her to join us in fun stuff from SOTW activity book, but she didn't have to listen to those readings. I loved how book basket made it a great way to be connected.

 

Science in elementary years in MFW: usually they select science texts and activities that are already designed for multi age, and then you adjust how much writing they do.

 

It's one room school house meets family needs and keeps the family together.

 

just my 7.5 years of mfw experience there.

 

 

-crystal

[Donna T.]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, in my opinion, it would be just as easy to combine children in one HOD guide and teach one program as it is with MFW. If one were to do that, you would simply read more of the history and science books outloud (or have the children share and read the books for themselves), leave the Extension Packages for your older students and use the Drawn Into the Heart of Reading book lists (you wouldn't have to use the program, just pull from the lists) to provide appropriate readers for each of your children. You would do the exact same thing that MFW users do... read some books outloud, assign others as independent reading, and require less writing from your younger students.

 

It's really, really not that big a difference in how the two programs function. I think combining mutiple children with HOD would be no problem at all. I would pick a program for the oldest child and adapt down. Both have lots of books, notebooking, timelines, maps, etc. HOD doesn't give you a book list because you don't need one nor would you even have time for one hardly. But, they have plenty of various packages to choose from, unless you are like me and they haven't yet written a guide to accomodate your oldest child. If you want to stick with everything HOD then you may want separate guides for the dictation/spelling but other than that, I can't imagine you would need another guide at all.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Donna T.

[Donna A.]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, in my opinion, it would be just as easy to combine children in one HOD guide and teach one program as it is with MFW. If one were to do that, you would simply read more of the history and science books outloud (or have the children share and read the books for themselves), leave the Extension Packages for your older students and use the Drawn Into the Heart of Reading book lists (you wouldn't have to use the program, just pull from the lists) to provide appropriate readers for each of your children. You would do the exact same thing that MFW users do... read some books outloud, assign others as independent reading, and require less writing from your younger students.

 

It's really, really not that big a difference in how the two programs function. I think combining mutiple children with HOD would be no problem at all. I would pick a program for the oldest child and adapt down. Both have lots of books, notebooking, timelines, maps, etc. HOD doesn't give you a book list because you don't need one nor would you even have time for one hardly. But, they have plenty of various packages to choose from.

 

Agree about the books.... to some extent... I find the many choices in MFW's book basket to be *outstanding* and have discovered many new treasures from that list. I also found that I couldn't (could not) get MOST of the HOD books at our library.... so I ended up ordering from 3 different places in order to try to save money and STILL spent nearly $300. (This was for CTC.) I had 4 windows open at the same time: HOD, Amazon, CBD, and our library... searching out the best price for each title, who even carried those titles, checking to see whether our library had it, and looking for free shipping.

 

Sometimes you can't get specific titles from MFW Book Basket at the library, either, but since a) Book Basket is so large, and has such a wide variety for multiple ages, I have more choices. And b) MFW only *schedules* a handful of books in the weekly lessons (those are the books you see in the packages on the website), then leaves Book Basket as an optional place on the grid for more reading (as well as videos... have discovered some great educational videos from MFW BB, too!), it gives me more flexibility from which to pick and choose for each of my various children. As Crystal mentioned, Book Basket is one part of MFW that enables me to teach to different ages/learning levels.

 

I don't agree about the notebooking and other projects, however. This gets back into the "skill level" part of it and determining which manual(s) fit which child. Plus you don't have multiple TMs for the ancients period, or multiple TMs for the Middle Ages, and so forth. You're "confined" to whatever's in THAT manual unless you come up with your own. (I realize there is some flexibility IF your kids are somewhat close in age, but not if there's wide gaps.) HOD just doesn't have activities from which to choose for various levels of learning in the same program.

[Tidbits of Learning]

 

I don't agree about the notebooking and other projects, however. This gets back into the "skill level" part of it and determining which manual(s) fit which child. Plus you don't have multiple TMs for the ancients period, or multiple TMs for the Middle Ages, and so forth. You're "confined" to whatever's in THAT manual unless you come up with your own. (I realize there is some flexibility IF your kids are somewhat close in age, but not if there's wide gaps.) HOD just doesn't have activities from which to choose for various levels of learning in the same program.

 

This is spot on about combining with HOD. Last year, we were running 3 guides at once and it was hard; but, I could not have just picked the highest level guide we were using and adapt down b/c of the skills my youngest was definitely lacking in plain fine motor skills and such. I think you can adapt with older kids (already reading and writing pretty decent) with HOD. However, then you lose the open and go aspect of it. This year we are combining at my youngest child's level and beefing up for the older kids.

I haven't tried MFW so I can't say which is better, but I don't think you can take HOD and do it MFW's way of combining. I think a younger guide with HOD can be beefed up more easily than a higher guide can be watered down for a younger child.

[Knittinfarmgirl]

I think a younger guide with HOD can be beefed up more easily than a higher guide can be watered down for a younger child.

 

I think this is a better description of combining with HOD.

[lovetobehome]

Interesting thread! I am one who used MFW for several years, then switched to try many other things, and settled in with HOD. My son is using CtoC this year, and I cannot imagine it going more smoothly. I resisted because I didn't want them separated, and I didn't want him working independently, but the amazing thing is, it has been PERFECT for us. His independent work has helped him grow in amazing ways, and in confidence. He said the other day that he had been wanting to try school because he wanted to feel more independent, but with CtoC, he gets that feeling, that he is doing it 'on his own'. I was shocked, because I never had any idea he had that desire!

It has been so good for him, and while I did not want to let go of him by giving him some independence in his work, the reality for me is that I have a LOT more time to spend holding my daughter's hand, and she is the one who really needs me now. He has wings and can fly. She needs more help at this age. Cto C allows that, an answer to prayer.

Also, it allows me to work a bit with my 3yo, who was acting out all the time because I was treating him like an interruption to our day when I was trying to manage and direct everything.

I couldn't be happier with how CtoC has worked out for us.

Yes, I think you can easily adapt one HOD manual to multiple kids, like in MFW. HOD really encourages you not to, because they want to make sure the youngers don't get ignored, and that the olders can grow some skills in independence. But, it can just as easily be done, it just isn't marketed that way.

My daughter is using BEYOND, and she also loves having her OWN schoolwork and projects. She and I have grown much closer through this. She feels like finally I am here to spend some time with her, at her level, not always working at my son's level and having her along for the ride. Priceless what this has done for us.

Sometimes things work out differently than we expect. I thought it was really REALLY important for us to all learn 'together'. But, for my children, they feel like I am giving them so much more this way. The reality for us has been that 'separating' them has given them a whole lot more.

Just my 2 cents!

[Knittinfarmgirl]

Sometimes things work out differently than we expect. I thought it was really REALLY important for us to all learn 'together'. But, for my children, they feel like I am giving them so much more this way. The reality for us has been that 'separating' them has given them a whole lot more.

Just my 2 cents!

 

Which is why it is so great to be able to choose which works best for our family and situation. Seasons of life change and we can adjust to meet those needs.

[cbollin]

. Seasons of life change and we can adjust to meet those needs.

 

yepper.

:iagree:

 

-crystal

[Lovedtodeath]

Interesting thread! I am one who used MFW for several years, then switched to try many other things, and settled in with HOD. My son is using CtoC this year, and I cannot imagine it going more smoothly. I resisted because I didn't want them separated, and I didn't want him working independently, but the amazing thing is, it has been PERFECT for us. His independent work has helped him grow in amazing ways, and in confidence. He said the other day that he had been wanting to try school because he wanted to feel more independent, but with CtoC, he gets that feeling, that he is doing it 'on his own'. I was shocked, because I never had any idea he had that desire!

It has been so good for him, and while I did not want to let go of him by giving him some independence in his work, the reality for me is that I have a LOT more time to spend holding my daughter's hand, and she is the one who really needs me now. He has wings and can fly. She needs more help at this age. Cto C allows that, an answer to prayer.

Also, it allows me to work a bit with my 3yo, who was acting out all the time because I was treating him like an interruption to our day when I was trying to manage and direct everything.

I couldn't be happier with how CtoC has worked out for us.

Yes, I think you can easily adapt one HOD manual to multiple kids, like in MFW. HOD really encourages you not to, because they want to make sure the youngers don't get ignored, and that the olders can grow some skills in independence. But, it can just as easily be done, it just isn't marketed that way.

My daughter is using BEYOND, and she also loves having her OWN schoolwork and projects. She and I have grown much closer through this. She feels like finally I am here to spend some time with her, at her level, not always working at my son's level and having her along for the ride. Priceless what this has done for us.

Sometimes things work out differently than we expect. I thought it was really REALLY important for us to all learn 'together'. But, for my children, they feel like I am giving them so much more this way. The reality for us has been that 'separating' them has given them a whole lot more.

Just my 2 cents!

I really appreciate this post. I am only teaching 2, but one of them needs to do more independent work, and the other is 3.:001_smile:

[Alison in KY]

I am curious what everyone considers the great benefits to notebooking is? I see that was mentioned earlier as being one of the things in HOD that you can't really expect younger kids to participate in at a higher skill level. Whenever we work in the HOD student notebook, my son is just doing it to check off the box. There is no enjoyment from working in that beautiful notebook. I don't remember notebooking in school and look how well I turned out :lol:.

 

Also, is there a benefit to doing the history projects? IF your child doesn't like doing them? Maybe just following directions?

 

I'm trying to think of all the reasons I wouldn't want to combine in HOD :confused:. The one thing that comes to mind is that I think reading aloud the scheduled history and science would take a long time. Since they are scheduled as independent, I would think they are longer to read aloud than what is set up in MFW. Do you know if this is true?

 

I'm just thinking out loud here and curious what you think. I think my son would enjoy doing more school with his family instead of running off to his room to do it alone all the time.

[cbollin]

I am curious what everyone considers the great benefits to notebooking is?

 

from my mfw experiences with "free style" notebooking

 

The benefits that I've seen:

it gives my children time to process and write and/or draw something that they remember and took away from readings and stories.

 

It's along the lines of letting them show what they do know instead of testing them for things they forgot.

 

Our notebooks are very personalized. Sometimes it is downloading a picture and then writing some sentences on it. Sometimes it is writing a lot and maybe a doodle shows up on the page too. other times, I've had my middle daughter draw a picture from the story and she writes a caption. Other times, a notebooking page has been a photo of an activity or craft we made and some notes to help us remember.

 

and with my oldest child I've seen benefits include times to write more and turn it into a quick summary report.

 

 

-crystal

[Tidbits of Learning]

I'm just thinking out loud here and curious what you think. I think my son would enjoy doing more school with his family instead of running off to his room to do it alone all the time.

 

I know my oldest daughter is enjoying combining much more than when she was in her own guide. Even when I was doing 3 guides last year, she wanted to sit in with the younger kids and do their projects as well. She did feel like she was left out. I had 2 combined in 1 guide and she was in her own guide.

We hadn't made it to the independents guides and were in LHTH, LHFHG, and BHFHG. I felt like I was reading all day long out loud.

I really think it depends on the child and the age groups involved. Mine aren't very far apart in age so it has been much easier this year to just do BLHFHG and beef it up for my girls. I do like that if we continue HOD there are extensions in BHFHG on out.

[Donna A.]

I am curious what everyone considers the great benefits to notebooking is? I see that was mentioned earlier as being one of the things in HOD that you can't really expect younger kids to participate in at a higher skill level. Whenever we work in the HOD student notebook, my son is just doing it to check off the box. There is no enjoyment from working in that beautiful notebook. I don't remember notebooking in school and look how well I turned out :lol:.

 

What Crystal said about personalizing. With the HOD notebooking pages, you (the student) were told exactly what to put where. You had these boxes completed with information or drawings in them, but there was little to no room for personal creativity. You ended up with these beautiful completed pages, but it's like it was all about the beautiful pages themselves, not the child or her own personal style. (That may be why your son views it as just another box to check off? I think it's also the reason my 11yo last year kept asking "what do I do now". She was just following directions and nothing more.)

 

Also, is there a benefit to doing the history projects? IF your child doesn't like doing them? Maybe just following directions?

 

I think it really depends on both the project and the child. Some do, some don't. But what I often hear is that it's MOM who doesn't like doing hands-on activities and therefore doesn't even realize how much her KIDS would enjoy it and learn from it. ;) I would be one of those moms, and this is the very reason I like having a program with directions and supply lists and the projects already scheduled in.... because *I* wouldn't do them otherwise. :tongue_smilie:

 

The history projects have also helped me to learn a bit more about my kids' personalities. I've got one who will take the stuff and run with it, and even go beyond what the directions say. I've got another who can't stand to do anything involving glue or creams and such things. I've got another who loves doing activities like this, but can't really do them on her own, so doesn't get the opportunity unless it's scheduled as part of "school" or unless Big Sis takes the initiative to do something w/her. (Or unless Mom steps outside of her box once in a while to surprise her. :D )

 

Doing history projects also helps to develop teamwork. Not that we don't do teamwork together in other areas (household chores, yardwork, playing games), but having history projects reveal a child's individual strengths and weaknesses in a lot of different ways (as well as Mom's!).

 

History projects are really just another "tool in the box", so to speak. While we don't always do them, or one child may sit out of an activity sometimes, I like having them there as an option.

 

I'm trying to think of all the reasons I wouldn't want to combine in HOD :confused:. The one thing that comes to mind is that I think reading aloud the scheduled history and science would take a long time. Since they are scheduled as independent, I would think they are longer to read aloud than what is set up in MFW. Do you know if this is true?

 

Yes, you're going to have lengthier books in, say, CTC or RTR that will be harder for a young child to sit through. You also may not want them listening to the content of some books. One thing MFW and HOD have in common is that they wait until around 4th or 5th grade to teach any of the false gods of the ancients era. But the difference is that in MFW, you have a wider variety of books and activities available for the younger ones, while the older ones can read their age-appropriate books either on their own, or with you as a read-aloud but without the littles having to sit nearby because that's what's scheduled this week. It's fine if the littles don't sit in on older bro's scheduled read-alouds, but what do you have for the littles to listen to, then? Any picture books? Coloring pages? Cooking activities for everyone to join in preparing and serving to learn about how the Jew celebrated the feasts? A plague of frogs to spread around the house when Moses was trying to negotiate with Pharoah and God was having His say in the matter? Those kinds of things are missing in HOD CTC because it's written for older kids.

 

See, if I have more choices available for a wider age range, then I can do those readings/activities that are appropriate for everyone together before they start scattering different directions. Once that "together" stuff is done, the littles can go play while I work with the olders (if needed), OR, the olders can separate to do their independent work while I do 1-on-1 lessons with my youngest. Or we've also done it in the reverse in some seasons.... Olders do independent work first, while I work with younger, then we come back to the table later on to do our together work.

[lovetobehome]

This is spot on about combining with HOD. Last year, we were running 3 guides at once and it was hard; but, I could not have just picked the highest level guide we were using and adapt down b/c of the skills my youngest was definitely lacking in plain fine motor skills and such. I think you can adapt with older kids (already reading and writing pretty decent) with HOD. However, then you lose the open and go aspect of it. This year we are combining at my youngest child's level and beefing up for the older kids.

I haven't tried MFW so I can't say which is better, but I don't think you can take HOD and do it MFW's way of combining. I think a younger guide with HOD can be beefed up more easily than a higher guide can be watered down for a younger child.

I think this is because HOD will schedule in many grade/skill-level specific things. MFW just leaves that out so it is not so specific to an age. MFW will leave you to choose the LA and math. HOD schedules that, and you can modify, but HOD also includes more of those skill type things in other areas too. So with MFW, those things just aren't in there. WIth HOD, you could skip or modify those things if you were combining. For example, in the notebooking, you could have an older child do it as described, and have a younger child draw a picture or copy a sentence. It isn't that hard, if you want to do it. But if you will see those things and think 'this is not the right level for all 3 of my kids' then that will trip you up. If you can look at it and say, 'This has specific things to one child't level, but it has a lot of other generic stuff too, and i can tweak this for my other children' then you will be ok. It's what most of us do anyway in everyday life, we don't expect as much from the littles and give them a modified assignment. My daughter sometimes wants to do what my son is doing, but she can't write or understand at his level. So I just ask her to do less of it.

MFW and HOD are both great. You can use either, however you want. The key is to decide which curriculum you really want to use, and make it fit. Modify it for you, it is a tool to help. I think so often *I* look for excuses to switch. Something isn't perfect, so I convince myself I will find a way to fix that imperfection and search out some other great curriculum to use. Only to find the new thing has other imperfections, and the cycle goes on....

I decided to commit to CtoC for a full year, and whenever I DO commit, I am so much more content to not be second-guessing the curriculum and myself. This is just my own experience and what works for me. I know there are other like myself who get caught in the endless grass is greener syndrome....and it was helpful to me to hear others admit it and encourage me to deal with it. If this speaks to anyone, good! If not, feel free to ignore. No judgment at all here, and I truly mean that. :grouphug:

[Donna T.]

I think this is because HOD will schedule in many grade/skill-level specific things. MFW just leaves that out so it is not so specific to an age. MFW will leave you to choose the LA and math. HOD schedules that, and you can modify, but HOD also includes more of those skill type things in other areas too. So with MFW, those things just aren't in there. WIth HOD, you could skip or modify those things if you were combining. For example, in the notebooking, you could have an older child do it as described, and have a younger child draw a picture or copy a sentence. It isn't that hard, if you want to do it. But if you will see those things and think 'this is not the right level for all 3 of my kids' then that will trip you up. If you can look at it and say, 'This has specific things to one child't level, but it has a lot of other generic stuff too, and i can tweak this for my other children' then you will be ok. It's what most of us do anyway in everyday life, we don't expect as much from the littles and give them a modified assignment. My daughter sometimes wants to do what my son is doing, but she can't write or understand at his level. So I just ask her to do less of it.

MFW and HOD are both great. You can use either, however you want. The key is to decide which curriculum you really want to use, and make it fit. Modify it for you, it is a tool to help. I think so often *I* look for excuses to switch. Something isn't perfect, so I convince myself I will find a way to fix that imperfection and search out some other great curriculum to use. Only to find the new thing has other imperfections, and the cycle goes on....

I decided to commit to CtoC for a full year, and whenever I DO commit, I am so much more content to not be second-guessing the curriculum and myself. This is just my own experience and what works for me. I know there are other like myself who get caught in the endless grass is greener syndrome....and it was helpful to me to hear others admit it and encourage me to deal with it. If this speaks to anyone, good! If not, feel free to ignore. No judgment at all here, and I truly mean that. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: - basically, there are alot of things in HOD that just aren't in MFW at all, so you can just cut some of that out or change it up or whatever... in the end, there's just not a big difference in how it actually plays out.

[cbollin]

I think this is because HOD will schedule in many grade/skill-level specific things. MFW just leaves that out so it is not so specific to an age. MFW will leave you to choose the LA and math. HOD schedules that, and you can modify, but HOD also includes more of those skill type things in other areas too. So with MFW, those things just aren't in there.

 

I got confused. It's a rainy day here, so maybe that's confusing me. But I haven't used HOD so I'm not in the total know either. so I'm confused.

 

 

So, when there are notes in MFW manual that say "2nd and 3rd graders do this" and 4th-6th do that, and jr. high do that and this and this too...

that's not the same thing, that you see in HOD, right?

 

MFW includes various reports and skill sheets for various grades, but leave some room for flexibility so that it is individual to the student. You know what I mean... some 4th graders have different readiness than others.

 

both MFW and HOD recommend the same math, singapore, and both write schedules for that math? Then, based on where the student places and works, that determines which book in Singapore to use?

 

Writing Strands in MFW -- writing is an art

Igniting Your Writing in HOD: that has "beginning, intermediate and advanced" lessons.

 

same kind of issue.

 

MFW uses language arts that are grade specific. I'm still confused how it is different.

 

I should go eat some protein before teaching my exercise class this afternoon because I might never really see the difference in it. I keep hearing it is different, but since I've only used MFW, I haven't experienced the difference. I guess I just feel left out.... oh well. any reason to babble.

 

But all that matters is that I'm happy that Donna T is happy. ok, I"m just avoiding getting ready for my jazzercise class and thought this was a fun distraction.

 

:lol:

 

ok.. before Donna A tells me to work my abs and learn some "fancy footwork".... :lol:

 

 

and Donna T. This I like and totally get it "in the end, there's just not a big difference in how it actually plays out. "

 

 

 

-crystal

[Tidbits of Learning]

So, when there are notes in MFW manual that say "2nd and 3rd graders do this" and 4th-6th do that, and jr. high do that and this and this too...

that's not the same thing, that you see in HOD, right?

No, in HOD you can use a lower guide with extensions beginning around 3rd grade there are extensions for 4th and 5th grade ages. So the extensions are in the back of the book in the appendix for the higher grades...they aren't on the same page as the regular days of the guide.

 

MFW includes various reports and skill sheets for various grades, but leave some room for flexibility so that it is individual to the student. You know what I mean... some 4th graders have different readiness than others.

HOD doesn't really give alternatives except the extension packages. In some of the younger guides LHFHG there are kindergarten options and 1st grade options. In LHTH, there are 2 options for preschool skills. But in BLHFHG and up, there is only one set of instructions unless you are beefing it up with the extensions in the appendix.

 

both MFW and HOD recommend the same math, singapore, and both write schedules for that math? Then, based on where the student places and works, that determines which book in Singapore to use?

Yes and no. They both use Singapore, but HOD puts it's schedules in the guides. MFW has their Singapore instructions/schedules separate from their manual. With HOD, say your child is using BLHFHG but tests 2a or 3a in Singapore. You would need to purchase BHFHG (the next HOD manual) to get the Singapore schedule even though you would only be using it for math that year.

 

Writing Strands in MFW -- writing is an art

Igniting Your Writing in HOD: that has "beginning, intermediate and advanced" lessons.

 

same kind of issue.

 

MFW uses language arts that are grade specific. I'm still confused how it is different.

 

I think it is b/c HOD doesn't use formal grammar until their 4th guide Bigger Hearts for His glory for ages 7-9 and extensions for 10 and 11 yr olds. They start out with R&S English 2 which may or may not be below the grade level of your child. Say you are using BHFHG with a 9 year old, then English 2 will be below level for their grade. Some people use the English 2 early with BLHFHG guide to avoid this issue.

It is more or less like this. HOD has their guides written for limited age groups and therefore the math and language arts scheduled are for those age groups. If you are combining or using with a child not in that age group, then you need to purchase the next guide from HOD or even 2 guides out in order to get your language arts and math schedule.

I don't really see any difference in the recommendations to use grade level 3r's. The big difference is that MFW does not schedule them directly into the manuals and their schedules for math can be bought separately while you may wind up purchasing several guides to get your language art and math schedules with HOD.

From what I read, you split up PLL for 2nd and 3rd in MFW and ILL for 4th-6th. MFW uses Spelling though and HOD drops spelling lists for dictation beginning in 2nd/3rd in BHFHG.

 

 

 

-crystal

:001_smile: I think there are similarities and differences between both programs. I haven't used MFW, but have tried HOD with separate guides as well as combining the kids in one guide. I do find it hard to accomplish HOD separately with 3 kids and it also gives challenges combining some times. However, it is a really good program. It just isn't open and go for me. I can live with that right now.

I do wonder if MFW would be easier to combine and accomplish while keeping my kids learning in their own skill level.

The notebooking comments have me interested in looking at MFW. HOD's notebooking is very scripted. I am wondering how differently MFW approaches notebooking since they now have student sheet sets. I am wondering if it is more scripted or laid out now and thus more similar to HOD's notebooking. I like the idea of a more personal result from notebooking than a specific output from very specific directions.

 

Edited November 16, 2010 by OpenMinded

[Knittinfarmgirl]

The notebooking comments have me interested in looking at MFW. HOD's notebooking is very scripted. I am wondering how differently MFW approaches notebooking since they now have student sheet sets. I am wondering if it is more scripted or laid out now and thus more similar to HOD's notebooking. I like the idea of a more personal result from notebooking than a specific output from very specific directions.

 

I'm interested in finding this out as well. For me, HOD is not the best fit because I don't like it to be as scripted. I'd prefer to see what my kids do on their own instead of a "fill in the blank", so to speak.

[lovetobehome]

Oh, I LOOOOVE HOD's notebooking! It has so much more meaning than what my kids would come up with on their own. So we have this aswesome summary of everything we are learning, so helpful for reviewing, remembering, carrying the learning on for a much longer period.

It also saves him from coming to me saying, what do you think I should draw? I don't know what the main idea is! Etc. The top boxes are for timeline events. So you put a date, and a suggested picture. It guides them to answer certain questions about the main point of what is being read (giving you maybe 6 questions to answer, they can choose which ones, but it leads them to the main ideas instead of saying "This was about X". It asks them to select an important part of the reading to copy, they choose what to write. It directs you to certain verses. It could certainly be modified, but it is wonderful WONDERFUL to have the ideas there! IMO. I am not a fill-in-the-blank kind of girl. But this is not that.

Edited November 16, 2010 by lovetobehome

[cbollin]

OpenMinded,

 

oh... that all made sense to my brain. Thank you for your explanation. light bulb moment for me after all these years of reading discussions. I like that. It really says to me why some stuff works so well for me in MFW.

 

and even if Donna T has change and was happy with something other than what I use, I'd be happy for her.

 

I'm still avoiding class. can't do that any longer. My customers deserve an instructor who knows her fancy footwork routine today. sorry.. I'm way lost in myself. :lol:

[Donna A.]

I do wonder if MFW would be easier to combine and accomplish while keeping my kids learning in their own skill level.

 

*I* believe so, and have been using MFW for almost 6 years (minus a couple of breaks) with age gaps between my girls. This is one reason I like the weekly grid. It has places on the grid for the 3 R's, but leaves room for you to write in each child's individual assignments. So no having to use multiple TMs just for the 3 R's. Again, MFW is all about efficiency. ;)

 

I am wondering how differently MFW approaches notebooking since they now have student sheet sets. I am wondering if it is more scripted or laid out now and thus more similar to HOD's notebooking. I like the idea of a more personal result from notebooking than a specific output from very specific directions.

 

 

No, it's not more scripted. The reason they have separate student packs now is because they just took the Appendix pages out of the TMs and made them a separate "pack" so that Mom doesn't have to photocopy everything. They also made the program more user friendly "as a whole" by doing this because, for example, in ECC those student packs now include the pre-made geography game. Used to be that Mom to had make it herself. The student packs in Adventures, EX1850, and 1850MOD now include the state sheets, stickers and flags for the state study, and those items used to be a separate purchase. (FYI, when they removed the Appendix pages from the TMs, they adjusted the price of the TMs accordingly.)

 

I haven't found an issue of "what do I draw now?" with MFW student sheets/notebooking pages because much of it's self-explanatory (a coloring page, a worksheet with which to complete a research assignment, a flag, a narration sheet, etc.) and simple instructions are given in the manual. And like I explained earlier, because you're doing all these things *together* as a family, much out-loud discussion is taking place here, so everyone is on the same page... figuratively and literally. :tongue_smilie:

 

I wonder if Crystal literally got around to jazzercise class, or just figuratively? :lol:

Edited November 17, 2010 by Donna A.
Editing to fix typo.

[Lovedtodeath]

HOD has its own assignments for spelling, dictation, copywork, poetry study and math in the HOD guide.

[Tree House Academy]

I am glad it is working for you! I love finding what works for my kids and then feeling that blessing each day.

 

I am not sure how this turned into HOD vs MFW, but it always does. LOL I think that both are great and have pros and cons. Like you said, Donna T. it will all work out in the end!

[mommaduck]

Oh my! I'm so glad to see so many people loving MFW! We started our three R's right out the gate this year, but started MFW a bit late due to morning sickness. We are on Week 3 of 1850-Modern.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I am glad it is working for you! I love finding what works for my kids and then feeling that blessing each day.

 

I am not sure how this turned into HOD vs MFW, but it always does. LOL I think that both are great and have pros and cons. Like you said, Donna T. it will all work out in the end!

 

I really didn't get the feeling that it was HOD vs. MFW. It has been refreshing to hear more about the programs in this thread and to understand more of the differences.

[Donna A.]

I am not sure how this turned into HOD vs MFW, but it always does. LOL I think that both are great and have pros and cons. Like you said, Donna T. it will all work out in the end!

 

Well, Donna made a switch so lots of people started asking more specifics about the differences.... primarily the multi-level learning aspect, I think. At least that's how I took it, and is what I've been responding to. There aren't many moms out there (that I'm aware of) who've used or attempted to use both programs with older children. I also think the differences become more stark once they hit the history cycle in CTC/CTG.

[Alison in KY]

Thanks Donna T for getting this thread started;).

 

I still find myself stuck between these two programs that I really need to mesh together to make one great program for myself....but I won't do it, I'd go crazy trying.

 

I appreciate the notebooking comments.

 

Alison