We made our curriculum change and it's great...

[Donna T.]

Boy, had I dreaded making this change! After alot of thought and prayer, we decided it's what we needed to do, for a variety of reasons. So, we started My Father's World's Exploration to 1850 this week and it's going splendidly. I am so relieved! The first few weeks cover material we have already covered this fall but I'm just scooting through it as a quick review. I like that I can still include all of the Sonlight books that we want to read, that it's quite similiar to the HOD program that I was using with my youngest son already, that we'll be stretching American History out over two years rather than cramming it into one (big factor in our decision), that we'll be covering World History alongside the American History (we thought this was important for our 6th grader), and that the curriculum is so strong in Bible teaching. My oldest son really loves the study of James. Our church held revival services this week and last night's sermon was on a portion of James that we had covered in school this week!

 

I'm feeling encouraged! I spent the last few weeks of school just feeling like something wasn't quite right about our line-up. I wanted more Bible, less reading outloud (though we love to read outloud, it was still alot), and a hands-on component. I also wanted to have time to include some of our own book choices and adding those to Sonlight, plus using the second program with my youngest son, was just too much. It was disappointing because we had such an awesome year last year. It already feels like high school is breathing down our necks! Fortunately, my hubby and I are feeling very settled on our choice to use MFW for high school so this seemed like the right time to go ahead and plunge in. I feel so much relief!!

 

OK, guess I needed to talk "out loud" about this for a minute!!

Edited November 17, 2010 by Donna T.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks so much for the update Donna. I am glad that your change is a good one. :)

[Guest aquiverfull]

I know exactly how you feel. The choices I made this year are stressing me out as well. Our situation seems very similar to yours. I began this year having my dd cover American history using Trail Guide to Learning, and she is also in 6th grade. I'm feeling the pressure of high school in a big way this year and I can't decide what to do for our history study. I'm just not sure where to go from here. She's only had a one year overview of World history and that was with SL core 1+2 when she was in 3rd grade. I'm starting to panic. I feel like we've floundered and now I have no idea how to get us back on track. I'd really like my dd to cover the entire cycle before she hits high school, and I'm also thinking of using MFW for highschool. Also, we have recently dropped what we were doing for Bible, it wasn't a program just something I was trying to do on my own. The only reason we stopped is because I can't find the time to plan so we can continue. I'm feeling so guilty about that because my main reason for homeschooling was to train my children in the ways of God and have HIM as our focus. Also, I began this year telling myself that we would cover world history alongside of American but it just hasn't happened. I just cannot find enough time in the day to plan all of that and successfully teach my children. I feel like I'm being pulled in too many directions and I'm about to crumble. My little ones are being left out in the cold, while I'm trying to work with my oldest. :(

 

Can you tell me your exact plans, please? So your son is in 6th grade and you're starting MFW Exp-1850 now. Will you do MFW 1850-mod in 7th? What are your plans for 8th? Thanks for sharing your experiences, thoughts, frustrations, and your plans to overcome.

[Momma H]

I have to say we did MFW EXP-1850 last year and it was great. I like being on track and not having to reinvent the wheel to cover world and american history. MFW did it and they did a great job. We are doing 1850-MOD this year and are loving it. My kids have memorized where all the states and capitals are which is a major bonus!

My son will start HS next year.:001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

Also, we have recently dropped what we were doing for Bible, it wasn't a program just something I was trying to do on my own. The only reason we stopped is because I can't find the time to plan so we can continue. I'm feeling so guilty about that because my main reason for homeschooling was to train my children in the ways of God and have HIM as our focus. Also, I began this year telling myself that we would cover world history alongside of American but it just hasn't happened. I just cannot find enough time in the day to plan all of that and successfully teach my children. I feel like I'm being pulled in too many directions and I'm about to crumble. My little ones are being left out in the cold, while I'm trying to work with my oldest. :(

:grouphug:I agree with all of the above, and I only have two!:grouphug: That is why I showed up here this week... I am stressed out! I should probably concentrate more on prayer and less on distracting myself...

[thowell]

I am so happy for you. I wish we could make this switch now but we just do not have the finances. I am doing my own thing and using TQ and I am already burned out with all the planning. I hope to save enough to be able to use MFW next year for the final time period of American History!

[Guest aquiverfull]

:grouphug:I agree with all of the above, and I only have two!:grouphug: That is why I showed up here this week... I am stressed out! I should probably concentrate more on prayer and less on distracting myself...

 

Thank you Carmen for the hugs and letting me know that I'm not alone. :grouphug: I just don't know how to do it all. My house seems like a constant wreck, let alone cook, clean, plan homeschool, and teach my girls. I just can't find enough hours in the day to do it all. I'm about ready to give up (although, I know that isn't even an option).

[Donna T.]

Can you tell me your exact plans, please? So your son is in 6th grade and you're starting MFW Exp-1850 now. Will you do MFW 1850-mod in 7th? What are your plans for 8th? Thanks for sharing your experiences, thoughts, frustrations, and your plans to overcome.

 

You know, I wish I could say what my exact plans are but I've learned that my plans aren't always what God has for us :). A year ago, I thought we would stick with Heart of Dakota for the long haul and wouldn't have even considered going back to MFW. And, I would have done that except we were "off" on what we needed to cover for history and science and it was important to me that we move forward, not repeating too much content. I decided that was more important to me than sticking to what I personally liked better. I think this choice was best for him.

 

I admire you for trying to do all that you are doing! I definately prefer "school in a box" type programs that include alot of literature. I could never plan it all out myself, not even just for Bible. I like to adapt programs but I don't want to write the whole she-bang myself.

 

Anyways, right now, I am pretty sure we will do MFW 1850 - Mod. in 7th & 4th grades. And, if that goes well, which I suspect it will, we can do Exploring Countries and Cultures in 8th & 5th grades, before my oldest starts with MFW's HS. I think this is a really good plan for my oldest son as he has had practically no Modern History and even though we started ECC several years ago, we didn't finish it and I've always wanted to do a year of Geo. with him.

 

I still wish I could just do HOD with my youngest and I can't rule out doing that next year. I already have the program that I'd use for him but the thing is... it seems foolish to do that while using MFW because, as I'm already seeing, MFW does make is so easy to teach one program to both of them in a way that is just right for both. I had every intention of continuing HOD with him while doing Exp. to 1850 with my oldest. But now that I have everything here and we have started I can see that would be a waste of time.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Donna T.

[Donna T.]

Thank you Carmen for the hugs and letting me know that I'm not alone. :grouphug: I just don't know how to do it all. My house seems like a constant wreck, let alone cook, clean, plan homeschool, and teach my girls. I just can't find enough hours in the day to do it all. I'm about ready to give up (although, I know that isn't even an option).

 

Looking back on last year, I'm kind of marveling how I was ever able to teach two different programs plus some extras. I realize now how tiring it was for me to do that. I mean, I did love everything but after just one week of being more realistic about what I can do, I feel so much better. Please don't give up!! Pray pray pray and you will be refreshed.

[Donna T.]

I am so happy for you. I wish we could make this switch now but we just do not have the finances. I am doing my own thing and using TQ and I am already burned out with all the planning. I hope to save enough to be able to use MFW next year for the final time period of American History!

 

Thank you!!

 

We didn't have the finances either but I kept praying and it worked out. I did have some of the materials already and plenty of books for the book basket, readers, and read-alouds. I'm embarressed to admit I bought a used Teacher's Guide. I hate to do that, I really know I should be supporting the companies directly but I couldn't swing it any other way and I still ended up placing a pretty good sized order.

[Guest aquiverfull]

You know, I wish I could say what my exact plans are but I've learned that my plans aren't always what God has for us :). A year ago, I thought we would stick with Heart of Dakota for the long haul and wouldn't have even considered going back to MFW. And, I would have done that except we were "off" on what we needed to cover for history and science and it was important to me that we move forward, not repeating too much content. I decided that was more important to me than sticking to what I personally liked better. I think this choice was best for him.

 

I admire you for trying to do all that you are doing! I definately prefer "school in a box" type programs that include alot of literature. I could never plan it all out myself, not even just for Bible. I like to adapt programs but I don't want to write the whole she-bang myself.

 

Anyways, right now, I am pretty sure we will do MFW 1850 - Mod. in 7th & 4th grades. And, if that goes well, which I suspect it will, we can do Exploring Countries and Cultures in 8th & 5th grades, before my oldest starts with MFW's HS. I think this is a really good plan for my oldest son as he has had practically no Modern History and even though we started ECC several years ago, we didn't finish it and I've always wanted to do a year of Geo. with him.

 

I still wish I could just do HOD with my youngest and I can't rule out doing that next year. I already have the program that I'd use for him but the thing is... it seems foolish to do that while using MFW because, as I'm already seeing, MFW does make is so easy to teach one program to both of them in a way that is just right for both. I had every intention of continuing HOD with him while doing Exp. to 1850 with my oldest. But now that I have everything here and we have started I can see that would be a waste of time.

 

Thank you Donna. :) I appreciate your encouragement. I won't give up, although I want to at times, it is not even an option for us. I just cannot send my kids to public school in good conscience.

 

It is nice to know that you are finding it easy to combine your children. Mine are so far apart in age, I don't know if I will be able to combine them but I've always liked the idea of it.

 

Yes, I understand exactly how you feel. My dd has had almost no modern history as well. She keeps telling me herself that she wants to know more about the Great Depression, the World Wars, etc.. We also started ECC and only completed a few weeks of it. I will keep it in mind for the future, although I'm not sure that I want to do it. Anyways, I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts with me. Congratulations on finding a solid plan for your oldest and being able to combine your children. I know that must feel great. :D

[AmyinMD]

We're doing MFW Explorer's to 1850 this year and I love it. We didn't start until October so we're only 4 weeks in but I like it a lot. I'm hoping to continue with 1850 to Modern next year except dd really wants to go to school with her big sis next year. I'm hoping to keep her home at least one more year but we'll see.

 

I haven't added a whole lot to the program yet but I will be adding some stuff for the Colonial period. We're adding in some of Time Travelers Colonial Life which has worked okay this week and gives dd more hands on.

[cbollin]

Hi Donna!

 

I just love the part of your post where the sermon at church were part of the James study too. That happened a lot with us the year we did EX1850. Just a blessing.

 

it is so encouraging to hear how your needs and goals are being met each year.

 

blessings,

-crystal

[MrsMe]

Ha Donna! I'm trying out the same thing! I don't feel bible is enough either in HOD and am moving on to ECC. It's not lacking in character really. Just hard to explain. Enough isn't the right word. I know ECC has mixed reviews, but we're at the point where I really like the choice of book basket and not being so confined. I feel very confined in HOD. I also feel this year is best for us as well as we won't miss anything. We'll still be able to get in Creation on up whether through either program and we'll just miss this overview year and do overview geography instead. So really nothing will be lost in my rotation. We're having a hard time getting done with Preparing. We've yet to complete a day in a day and we started in August. I heard ECC takes a bit less time, but we'll find out.

 

Anyway, I can totally relate to your post. We're doing this exactly because of what you wrote in your last paragraph I love school in a box and couldn't put anything together myself. I don't want to reinvent the wheel. You're one I follow on HOD all the time. Looks like so far we're going in the same direction.

Edited November 12, 2010 by alilac

[Lovedtodeath]

Hi alilac! Yes, I didn't feel like the HOD Bible was right for us.

 

It looks like we are going to take 2 years to get through Bigger. There is really nothing wrong with that, since we have our skill areas taken care of with Phonics Road. DH and I talked about it yesterday, so we are at the planning stage. :)

[delaney]

That's great! It must feel so good to have settled in on something. I am still searching for that feeling but since it has only been 2 1/2 months I am still positive that it will all click. I am off to look at the A2 disc I ordered now.

[MrsMe]

Hi alilac! Yes, I didn't feel like the HOD Bible was right for us.

 

It looks like we are going to take 2 years to get through Bigger. There is really nothing wrong with that, since we have our skill areas taken care of with Phonics Road. DH and I talked about it yesterday, so we are at the planning stage. :)

 

It's sort of funny because we did MFW Adv with Beyond, but I didn't use the Bible portion of MFW because dd would have been bored to tears over reading straight from the Bible. But now that she's 10, she loves it, so I'm now doing MFW Adv Bible portion with Preparing and chucking the Bible Study portion of HOD. It's just different. Can't put my finger on it. HOD shows God's glory in it's creation and it's character, which seems to be a section, whereas MFW seems to be more rounded.

 

Right now the plan is to do ECC a continent at a time then go back where we left off (between continent) to Preparing. I won't know till we complete it. I just saw Donna's post and just went...AH..HA !

[Donna T.]

Ha Donna! I'm trying out the same thing! I don't feel bible is enough either in HOD and am moving on to ECC. It's not lacking in character really. Just hard to explain. Enough isn't the right word. I know ECC has mixed reviews, but we're at the point where I really like the choice of book basket and not being so confined. I feel very confined in HOD. I also feel this year is best for us as well as we won't miss anything. We'll still be able to get in Creation on up whether through either program and we'll just miss this overview year and do overview geography instead. So really nothing will be lost in my rotation. We're having a hard time getting done with Preparing. We've yet to complete a day in a day and we started in August. I heard ECC takes a bit less time, but we'll find out.

 

 

 

It wasn't HOD that was lacking in Bible for us. I actually LOVE HOD's Bible. My oldest son was using Sonlight and that was where the Bible was lacking for me. HOD is very structured. I needed that last year. We got so much done, it was amazing. And, I loved Preparing. I wasn't able to get a full day done on the days that we also used Drawn Into the Heart of Reading. Our days were long. I was teaching two guides and now I'm wondering how I was able to do that!! I guess God gives us the grace to do what we need to do.

 

I didn't like ECC when I tried it before BUT it's changed some now and I think the changes that were made were ones that would have been helpful for me at the time.

[Donna A.]

Hi, Donna! Glad to hear it's going well! I've been thinking about you all week.

 

When we tried curriculum that was more geared to individual age/grade levels, I found it too confining and I also found it a lot more time consuming for ME because I had to do followup with each of those children... separately. You know, to make sure they understood what they were doing, that they did it right, or that they even did it in the first place. :lol: I still have to followup on their individual subjects (math, etc.), of course, but that's not nearly as difficult as trying to follow up on the CONTENT subjects. It's one thing to grade a math test and go back and review specific math concepts that they're struggling with. It's quite another to followup on those content subjects, especially if you're a family who deems the content subjects just as important as the skill subjects. Especially when you're talking about different maturity levels. There are ways to give an older kid more responsibility and independence without having to do separate grade level programs, but we still need our "all together" time, too. (Plus it's just a whole lot more *efficient* this way!)

 

For example, even in Expl-1850 when you're memorizing the book of James, you have two different memorization plans you can choose from. An older kid can memorize the entire book, and a younger one can memorize just select passages. That's all written into the lesson plans. I love that! We're all on the same page, and yet each child is at their own working level. Two birds with one stone, so to speak, and *I* didn't have to figure out how to make it happen! :001_smile:

[Donna T.]

Hi, Donna! I meant to let you know that we have started and it's going very well. I think I'm going to stick with the Bible in Adventures for my 3rd grader. I was thinking that if he repeats Exp. to 1850 in the future that he can do the full James study then. We started his Jesus poster and he is so proud of it!!

 

How do you have your children do their history narrations when you are combining them? Do they take turns or what? This is the only kink I have so far... they are pretty good about not interrupting one another but it just feels weird to have them doing it at the same time, after the same readings. They do narrate the books they are reading for themselves. Just wondering about the history readings that they are both listening in on.

[Donna A.]

How do you have your children do their history narrations when you are combining them? Do they take turns or what? This is the only kink I have so far... they are pretty good about not interrupting one another but it just feels weird to have them doing it at the same time, after the same readings. They do narrate the books they are reading for themselves. Just wondering about the history readings that they are both listening in on.

 

We always have so much out loud discussion going on when we do read-alouds that individual narrations haven't been necessary. However, what I *would* do if I needed narrations from everyone for the same book would be to start with the youngest and let her narrate first. Then the next older one would fill in some parts that she remembered that little sis didn't say. Then the next older one.... That's how Charlotte Mason recommended it be done.

[MrsMe]

I used to think Donna A was Donna T and that I just couldn't remember the last initial. Now you're both together. Whew! Good thing. :lol: Makes things easier now that you're both MFW. :tongue_smilie:

[Donna T.]

We always have so much out loud discussion going on when we do read-alouds that individual narrations haven't been necessary. However, what I *would* do if I needed narrations from everyone for the same book would be to start with the youngest and let her narrate first. Then the next older one would fill in some parts that she remembered that little sis didn't say. Then the next older one.... That's how Charlotte Mason recommended it be done.

 

That's what we do. It works fine I guess, just seems a little awkward. We'll get the hang of it. My oldest wants to interrupt. Maybe we need to finish that manners curriculum we started last year. :tongue_smilie:

[Donna A.]

That's what we do. It works fine I guess, just seems a little awkward. We'll get the hang of it. My oldest wants to interrupt. Maybe we need to finish that manners curriculum we started last year. :tongue_smilie:

 

LOL, I've found that group teaching *does* reveal those areas where each person needs character training. Including Mom's. :lol:

 

Seriously, though... I think I've told you this, Donna, but I'll say it again for other readers' benefit. In our family, everyone who can read, does. We take turns with the read-alouds. That includes those younger ones who aren't very fluent and still need lots of help. My oldest wants to just "move on", and I think it kinda' grates her nerves to have to listen to a non-fluent younger sis. She'd had to have some lessons in patience and kindness in this area. ;)

[Donna A.]

I used to think Donna A was Donna T and that I just couldn't remember the last initial. Now you're both together. Whew! Good thing. :lol: Makes things easier now that you're both MFW. :tongue_smilie:

 

:smilielol5:

[mommyagain]

I used to think Donna A was Donna T and that I just couldn't remember the last initial. Now you're both together. Whew! Good thing. :lol: Makes things easier now that you're both MFW. :tongue_smilie:

I used to keep saying this little rhyme in my head when reading their posts:

 

Donna A. is Kayrenee,

Donna T.'s with HOD!

 

Kinda catchy!:lol:

[MrsMe]

I used to keep saying this little rhyme in my head when reading their posts:

 

Donna A. is Kayrenee,

Donna T.'s with HOD!

 

Kinda catchy!:lol:

 

No way...Kayrenee?????? I know Kayrenee. Your secret is out.

 

Way cute rhyme.:thumbup1:

[mommyagain]

No way...Kayrenee?????? I know Kayrenee. Your secret is out.

 

Way cute rhyme.:thumbup1:

Oops! I hope it wasn't a secret!!! If so, I'm sooooooo sorry!:crying:

[Guest aquiverfull]

LOL... I used to get Donna A and Donna T mixed up too. :) Cheryl, I love your little rhyme. :lol:

 

Anyways, I'm enjoying reading about how both Donna's are handling narration. That's one skill that my dd needs to work on. Also, boy can I relate to the statement about Character traits when the family is working together, especially mom's character! ;)

[Donna A.]

Hey, that's pretty cute, Cheryl! :thumbup:

[Donna A.]

Also, boy can I relate to the statement about Character traits when the family is working together, especially mom's character! ;)

 

Just think of all the fun we'd be missing out on if our kids went to public school! :willy_nilly:

[Mommee & Baba]

:) I'm so happy for your family!!

 

I know what it's like to feel as you did before the change...I'm so THRILLED with our curriculum changes this year as well. Not only did I realize I was putting too much on myself but on my kids too and now it's ENJOYABLE again and we can have a more spontaneous life as a family!

 

:grouphug: I always dreamed of homeschooling being a process of learning for us all that brought us closer together as a family and closer to the thirst for knowledge...and now we're living this through our homeschool days now and it's so incredible!

[Alison in KY]

Oh no ladies (Donna and Donna):lol:, now I find myself rethinking my next year. Dang it Donna T...go ahead and tell me more about how much my life will be easier if I combine everyone in MFW :glare:

 

I had thought I'd use HOD's RTR for my oldest, then just do some basics and and finish up MFW Adventures and use some Paces with my younger two...Now I'll have to ponder for the next 9 months :confused:. Oh, so many awesome choices.

 

Okay, as far as MFW goes, does she give you answers to science and history questions? That's one of the things I'm not liking about CTC, if it's something I don't already know then I have to look it up.

 

Thank you.

 

Alison

[Donna A.]

Okay, as far as MFW goes, does she give you answers to science and history questions? That's one of the things I'm not liking about CTC, if it's something I don't already know then I have to look it up.

 

 

Alison, it's more like having "discussion", not Q&A. Marie has teacher notes with helps, and the goal is to discover facts and information and make connections between the different books (people and events) that you're reading about. It's very Charlotte Masonish in that way. I don't know, we haven't had too many occasions where someone had a question that someone else hadn't already discovered the answer to.

 

I will say on this subject, though, that some have given MFW a bad rap for using Streams and Usborne books. But here's the thing... those are fact-based books with lots of great information, and many of the Usborne books they include are internet-linked as well. And your question, Alison, is the very reason they include such books.... so that you HAVE those otherwise "boring" fact-based books to go to for more information. ;) (Plus there are more fact-based or non-fiction type books in Book Basket, too. Don't forget about Book Basket which give you many more options!)

 

Does that make sense?

 

The other thing is that MFW isn't in the business of giving you all the answers like, say, a textbook w/comp questions, written tests, and an "answer key" would. These content subjects (history, Bible, lit, and sometimes even science) aren't necessarily "black and white" subjects. Opinions and theology can vary widely, so MFW can't always tell you the answers; thus, the varied types of resources that are included in their packages. :001_smile:

[Alison in KY]

Thanks Donna A. However, does it lead the teacher to some suggested answers? For instance in HOD, my son is doing his history and Bible by himself. I look over his work and think it makes sense...but I REALLY don't know what the right answer would be. Same way with the apologia science book that is used. I didn't know if MFW would give answers for apologia or not, or if it even matters in their history, because it might be covered by a read aloud from the parent.

[Donna A.]

Thanks Donna A. However, does it lead the teacher to some suggested answers? For instance in HOD, my son is doing his history and Bible by himself. I look over his work and think it makes sense...but I REALLY don't know what the right answer would be. Same way with the apologia science book that is used. I didn't know if MFW would give answers for apologia or not, or if it even matters in their history, because it might be covered by a read aloud from the parent.

 

Ohhh, I see now! No, I don't think it really matters because when you do the read-alouds and assignments the way they're scheduled in MFW, the material is being covered all together at the same time. Your son would do more reading from Book Basket on his own, and you might assign him some extra research or notebooking or whatever (as you feel led or see the need), but he would be giving you narrations from that independent reading which is for his individual growth and interest, not the main lessons.

 

Any followup projects you have him do will go into his notebook, and HE is to tell YOU what he learned, not vice versa. :) I'm thinking of something like, let's say he uses an Internet-Linked Usborne book to go to the computer and find more info on this guy. Or let's say you choose a book from Book Basket to have him read independently and then do a written narration on it. So he'll be learning research skills as part of MFW, and then reporting what he's discovered.

 

Same with science. Of course, if he uses Apologia General come 7th grade and above, then you'll have a test book and answer key for everything he does there. But science in 6th and below is done the same way as described above.

 

Does that help? I fear I'm not explaining it well enough. If not, can you give me a specific example of a question or activity that he did in CTC that you were unsure of? Maybe I could then explain how that particular lesson would be handled "the MFW way".

[Donna T.]

Oh no ladies (Donna and Donna):lol:, now I find myself rethinking my next year. Dang it Donna T...go ahead and tell me more about how much my life will be easier if I combine everyone in MFW :glare:

 

Alison

 

Alison, I'm afraid to tell you... but yes, this is easier on me than teaching two HOD programs BUT that was not the reason I made the change. If HOD had had a program (in particular an American or Modern History option with something for science other than Biology) that I wanted to use with my oldest, I would have stuck with it. I think that once you start a HOD guide it works best overall if you do not skip future guides. My oldest son was right where he needed to be last year with Preparing with the Extensions and if we had skipped Ancients/Biology (because he doesn't need more of those subjects right now) and went on to RTR it would have been too much of a leap for him. He's at the level of CTC but I didn't want to teach the content of CTC.

 

Anyways, I really love HOD and regret that I had to look elsewhere but I'm happy with MFW. I am looking forward to getting into American History with both of my boys. My oldest hasn't had American History since he used Adventures in 2nd grade. He has alot of fond memories of that year and has gotten my youngest son excited about the state study in particular. I think it's going to be a really good year for us but I definately would have not made a switch if HOD had had an option for us.

 

All that to say... combining them was not the biggest issue for me. I think I could have continued to teach two HOD guides but definately no more than two.

[WiseOwlKnits]

Isn't it a great feeling when you find something that works?!

 

I made this sort of change last year from FLL to CLE LA/Rdg and I'm still amazed a year later at how much better school is now for DD *and* for me.

[birchbark]

this is easier on me than teaching two HOD programs BUT that was not the reason I made the change.

 

He's at the level of CTC but I didn't want to teach the content of CTC.

 

 

I was wondering about this Donna; thanks for clarifying. :)

 

I have noticed that several HoDies on the board here have bailed ship this year and I've been curious as to why. This is our second year using HoD and it is going wonderfully. I am only teaching one student right now though and wonder how it will go in a couple years when I add another. I'd really like to stick with HoD through the history cycle. But when I saw moms who raved about HoD change their plans, I wondered if there was a high burnout rate or something. Maybe that's a question for its own thread.

[abrightmom]

I have noticed that several HoDies on the board here have bailed ship this year and I've been curious as to why. ........I wondered if there was a high burnout rate or something. Maybe that's a question for its own thread.

 

:D Please start this thread. I am intensely curious because I LOVE HOD and I'm planning to use it.

 

MFW is a lovely program too . . . . I am thrilled that Donna and her boys are settling in so nicely! :001_smile: I do LOVE how Donna thinks through the issues and plans accordingly. I have learned a lot from her responses on various threads.

 

:001_huh: Am I ever puzzled by the HOD vs MFW question. HOD calls to me much more so than anything else now. But I feel a tad nervous about using two guides.

[Alison in KY]

Thank you for explaining Donna T and Donna A. I really enjoyed our time together when I combined everyone in Beyond. For some reason (can't think of it right now) neither Bigger or Preparing appealed to me. I think because I wanted to get in a four year history cycle before my oldest starts high school. That's the big appeal for me to use MFW. However, I haven't looked ahead, but I think they use SOTW for all of their history...that SOTW 4 kicked us in the butt, I dont' know if I'd want to try that one again.

 

And yes, your answer on how they don't really answer questions makes sense. In CTC, when they are more independent, the kids are doing their history and science independently. They give questions for science, but the answers aren't given, neither are answers or ideas given for history. I just always assume he has an idea on what he's done...but I just don't know.

 

I guess I can see it going either way for us. I think it would be more relaxed with MFW, more unified, however, my middle daughter has a difficult time listening to read alouds. She has to basically read things herself to understand them. I also know that everything my son is doing in CTC (and we are not doing it all) has been a challenge for him, and I hope he is learning something from it. And I like that HOD will start using some MOH.

 

You've just given me more to think about though:tongue_smilie:

 

Alison

[MrsMe]

I was wondering about this Donna; thanks for clarifying. :)

 

I have noticed that several HoDies on the board here have bailed ship this year and I've been curious as to why. This is our second year using HoD and it is going wonderfully. I am only teaching one student right now though and wonder how it will go in a couple years when I add another. I'd really like to stick with HoD through the history cycle. But when I saw moms who raved about HoD change their plans, I wondered if there was a high burnout rate or something. Maybe that's a question for its own thread.

 

I'm one of those, but not bailing ship totally. I'm using this year to add ECC to Preparing and make it a longer year and if I can't make it work, I'll drop Preparing do ECC and move on to HOD CTC. That's the plan anyway. For me it's not the content. I just get bored with the schedule. HOD is very scheduled. And this year gives me the option to try MFW as we've used K and Adv and make a decision then. What we didn't like about MFW in the past is something I'm interested in now. But for me I'm looking for schedule changes, a program where I can deviate a bit. I feel a little locked in with HOD. Some of it is the repetion that bothers me, nothing on content. So don't freak, HOD is excellent. Just a mom here that tends to go back and forth from schedule boredom.

[Alison in KY]

Donna and/or Donna, I was glancing through MFW and I see my likes and dislikes with their programs. Before, I have combined all of mine in HOD's Beyond, which was really easy. The only thing that didn't fit was their science, and I just didn't care for it so we decided to do something different. But if I decided to, couldn't I take a HOD package, say RTR, and do the science and history reading out loud for all of my kiddos, then answer the questions out loud, etc. I would have my oldest do the student notebook, but not my younger two. Isn't that what MFW is doing, well, other than their great schedule, aren't they reading aloud their history and science to the multi age kids then asking them to narrarate what you've read?

 

I'm just brainstorming here, and you two are awesome ladies to brainstorm with. Thank you.

 

Alison

[Donna A.]

However, I haven't looked ahead, but I think they use SOTW for all of their history...that SOTW 4 kicked us in the butt, I dont' know if I'd want to try that one again.

 

No, not all of it. They don't use volume 1 at all. Volumes 2-4 are used in RTR thru 1850-Modern, but they don't ONLY use SOTW, either. There are other books, too. If your son is 5th grade? now, then he would be in 8th grade when you get around to 1850-Modern and that SOTW 4 isn't going to seem so bad. He'll use the SOTW AG with it that year, but not *everything* in the AG. He'll do outlining, but MFW gives you specific steps on how to do that. And remember that Expl-1850 and 1850-Modern have a 2nd/3rd grade supplement which you can use with the younger kids... they won't do everything older bro does in those two years. So it's age-appropriate.

 

I think it would be more relaxed with MFW, more unified, however, my middle daughter has a difficult time listening to read alouds. She has to basically read things herself to understand them.

 

That's okay! There are ways around this even in group learning. She can have her own copy of the read-alouds and follow along in her own book, and make sure to let her have turns reading aloud. That's what we do here. Everyone who can read takes a turn. (It's good practice for both reading aloud and listening.) If you can't afford for her to have her own copy of the books, then let her sit next to you and follow along in your book. I have one reader who needs to be able to see the page as well, and she often uses a straightedge to keep on track, whether she's doing the reading or looking off my copy. (Well, if I'm reading then I use my finger so she can follow along.)

 

I also know that everything my son is doing in CTC (and we are not doing it all) has been a challenge for him, and I hope he is learning something from it.

 

You may remember that I was trying to use CTC alongside MFW CTG, but that didn't work well at ALL. :glare: CTC moves faster than CTG does, tries to cover a lot more content in a lot less time, and also has you doing some very *detailed* assignments that were tedious for my dd. I was trying to have her work somewhat independently (with me nearby), and she kept asking "what do I do now" even though I had the boxes marked for her. (She was 11 at the time, and this is where HOD's age recommendations get funny. You have to pick the program based on SKILL level rather than where you are in the history cycle, but CTC was just too detailed and too much material for her.)

 

We also found CTC very difficult to complete in 4 days as scheduled, and that was with only one afternoon out of the house. If it was difficult then, there's NO WAY we could do it this year with more activities on our plate.

 

Now *I* enjoyed some of the assignments in CTC for myself! :lol: For example, the timeline between Adam and Noah... I'd never thought of it broken down like that... had obviously read it in the Bible, but hadn't really thought about it much, or the significance of that particular timeline. MFW AHL addresses this in 9th grade which my oldest has done pretty much independently.... and I do think this type of assignment is more high school level than 5th grade. If my oldest had done this in 5th grade, she would've obediently done the task as assigned, but then thought "Why do I need to know this?" :tongue_smilie: (Which come to think of it is exactly what my 11yo did.) But now she (oldest) gets it because she's in that rhetoric stage thinking, and the way MFW ties the biblical timeline in with the Answers in Genesis book (biblical worldview/Creation) makes sense. So again, the principle being taught there is more age-appropriate at the rhetoric level, IMO. Otherwise it's just another "thing" to have to do.

 

Okay, so I guess that was one of reasons I decided to stick with MFW. In HOD it was just too difficult to balance those skill levels against the content subject levels. Too many different manuals needed to get the child at the right level on BOTH sides of the page... especially if you're doing it with more than one child. I found this consistently throughout HOD from all the manuals I bought, tried, and I wanted to use, from Little Hearts to CTC. (The only one in between that I haven't had is Bigger.)

 

HOD is a beautiful program and I understand the draw to it. It just didn't work for us in too many different "practical" ways.

[Donna A.]

Donna and/or Donna, I was glancing through MFW and I see my likes and dislikes with their programs. Before, I have combined all of mine in HOD's Beyond, which was really easy. The only thing that didn't fit was their science, and I just didn't care for it so we decided to do something different. But if I decided to, couldn't I take a HOD package, say RTR, and do the science and history reading out loud for all of my kiddos, then answer the questions out loud, etc. I would have my oldest do the student notebook, but not my younger two. Isn't that what MFW is doing, well, other than their great schedule, aren't they reading aloud their history and science to the multi age kids then asking them to narrarate what you've read?

 

Mmmm.... sort of. Like I said, when we're doing the out-loud history, Bible and science reading, I'm not really requiring narrations because we're having out-loud discussion as we read. I already *know* that everyone has comprehended some main point(s) from the reading because our discussions as we go along, so the narrations aren't necessary. The only place I'm really requiring narrations is when I assign independent reading from Book Basket for the olders, or I'm reading a picture book or shorter chapter book from Book Basket to the younger one(s). (Middle dd sometimes reads independently, but some books I read aloud to both her and younger dd, as well. So middle dd gets both.)

 

The other difference between your suggestion and what MFW does is that it isn't *just* reading aloud. There are notebooking pages, mapwork, and activities in MFW that are age-appropriate for everyone. All three of my girls have always had a notebook and done mapwork, even when the youngest was just 3 and we were doing Adventures. Her coloring of the maps was a little crude back then, LOL, and her notebooking pages might have been done with more stickers... and eventually Mom began writing narrations for her (she dictates what she wants to say, and I write it down, then sometimes I'll have her copy what I've written as a copywork assignment). But there are hands-on activities, cooking activities, and coloring pages that the youngest can do as well. If you use HOD RTR the way you've suggested, your youngers will be missing out on all of that unless you come up with it yourself. Which is fine if that's what works in your family... I'm just letting you know what the differences are so that you can make an educated decision. :)

 

Oh, one more thing..... MFW also schedules dictation, copywork, Bible memorization, etc. which is for EVERYONE to do, not just older kids. Many of the MFW assignments are intended for everyone to participate in. You do have some assignments that are for "advanced" kids only, and you have some that are obviously meant for little kids. But MOST of it is for everyone in the family, so they're all on the same page and you end up having "family discussions" that spill over to the dinner table with Dad. :D And the younger ones are very proud of the work they've done that they can show off to Dad, too. MFW truly is written for multiple ages.

 

If one of your big draws to HOD is the books (very beautiful packages Carrie has put together, yes indeed!), you might consider doing MFW, but then adding HOD books to your reading or Book Basket time in MFW. My oldest read MOH 3 on her own, for example. Another idea is to get the MOH CDs for your oldest to listen to on his own. Oh, and those "Draw and Write" books that HOD uses... I've used those with MFW, too. ;) I really like the copywork in those books. I quickly shelved the Genesis book by Ruth Beechick, as I felt it was really high school level material and didn't see the point of adding it to the CTC lessons because it was repeat material, anyway. (I guess if you have an older student joining you in the program...)

 

After we dumped the CTC "program", my 11yo continued reading the Story of the Ancient World book because she just liked it. I didn't require that she narrate to me from it because she offered little bits of knowledge that she'd gleaned when a topic came up in MFW, or even just family discussions unrelated to "school". I don't always require narrations, btw. Sometimes, after we've done our main lessons and I've taught the biblical and historical context, and I know what they know from that, then I just let them think about and draw their own conclusions from independent reading. That's kinda' how Book Basket is meant to be used anyway, but I do "assign" some things from Book Basket as well. (In which case I require narrations, either written or oral.)

[Lovedtodeath]

Couldn't you just as easily use HOD and adjust the assignments? For example, the youngest does one dictation sentence or copies while the oldest does more? The notebook pages could be partially completed before the youngest gets them, etc.?

 

I have some of the CTC books... you really only need the Ruth Beechick book for those cool Bible timeline assignments. It is there in that book. I agree that 5th grade is likely too soon for it. I had decided to do Winterpromise for a year if we were going to do CTC. I am leaning toward just making my own program though.

[Alison in KY]

Thanks Donna A, you've now given me something I can come back to again....and again lol.

 

Yes, I do remember you were using CTC. I agree with you on the Genesis book, that is one of the first things we stopped....well, and we dont' do the activities because my guy isn't an activity kind of guy. Now I just need to decide if I want us all studying together, or if I'll keep him seperate from my girls...and I'm just not sure. Maybe I'll give MFW a try and see how it goes.

 

How is SOTW4 working out for you? My girls will be older when it's time for that, in 6th and 4th...but I started off trying it with my son a few months ago and it just was too much. I read through and I agreed. Of course this was probably just the first 10 pages, and maybe it was easier after these..but it was just like country, date, fact over and over again. I couldn't narrarate from it.

 

Thanks again,

 

Alison

[Tidbits of Learning]

In HOD it was just too difficult to balance those skill levels against the content subject levels. Too many different manuals needed to get the child at the right level on BOTH sides of the page... especially if you're doing it with more than one child.

 

We are combining with BLHFHG this year and I find that this is very true. I either have to buy several guides for the language arts, math, and reading or I have to choose other curricula at my child's level for those subjects.

I find HOD can be great, but it is not open and go when you are combining several age levels. It is very hard to combine and my children are all a year apart in age. So max is 27 mo. difference in my oldest and my youngest school age child.

Doing more than one guide can be exhausting for the teacher to keep up with all of the material. HOD is fitting us this year for this season of our lives, but I do wonder how it will continue to work for us.

MFW does seem to be much easier to combine children of various ages. I have thought about jumping into 1850-modern and starting the cycle there next year with my children.

[mothergooseof4]

I am enjoying this thread. I have a love for HOD. I have used Bigger and Preparing with oldest ds. He is doing CTC pretty much independently this year, but we are not using the LA or math or activities. Youngers are supposed to be doing Beyond, but it isn't happening.

 

The main problem is that I want my kids to study together. I think that if they are studying together it will flow over to their play, dinner conversation, etc. and maybe bring us all closer. It just seems to me that it should be this way. Plus, I think I would be more motivated to get some sort of history/science done with the youngers this way. Right now, I do LA and math with them because they both need me sitting beside them. Then, I do some LA with oldest and his read aloud plus go over anything in the guide I feel needs my attention. After that, I am done mentally. I need a break. I am not the type to do school all day. I really want to take about half the day. The other half I need for chores, errands, etc.

 

I have really been looking at MFW. I would love to combine all of my dc. I am almost ready to sell HOD and buy MFW to start after the new year. This thread is really convincing me that this is the way to go.

[Alison in KY]

Mothergooseofthree, I totally understand and agree with you. My personal issue is that I like parts of each, but not either program totally. I like science from one and not from the other, the lighter flow of one and not the other, etc. It makes it tough to know which to choose. I do know that I really like 80% of HOD CTC...I just know our family isn't together for school like we were when I was combining.