Is anyone using First Form/Second Form Latin for high school?

[Jane Elliot]

I'm losing my Latin teacher next year. 18yods has been teaching my high schoolers Latin using Wheelocks. He learned it from Dr. Lund of Oxford Tutorials and has a knack for it, so we've had him teach his brothers and that's gone really well. However, he leaves for college next year, and I need a different plan for my girls (currently middle school). We really liked Dr. Lund, but our internet is so iffy. I've been working through LCII with my girls. It's been going well and after looking at First Form and Second Form I'm thinking I could actually do those (as opposed to teaching through Wheelocks which totally intimidates me.)

 

Is anyone currently using these? How is it going?

[Zee]

Ds is in 8th and we are using FF this year. We are on lesson 11, but we really like it so far, and ds is getting it. He's doing really well and I'm finding it easy to teach with the DVD's. I have my own workbook and am taking the course with ds, so that I know what I'm doing. We have tried a couple of latin programs, but this one seems to speak to us. The workbooks provide lots of practice, and I think that is what we had been missing with the other programs. I'm planning on moving to 2nd Form in 9th when we finish FF. At that point I plan to issue a credit for 1st year latin. Then we'll move on to 3rd Form (which has translation excercises from Henle 1 that you can supplement with), and then 4th form. At that point I'll give another credit for Latin II. From there we'll move onto Henle II if we're still hanging in there in 11th grade and Henle III in 12th. grade. That will give us 4 years of latin. Not as rigorous as some using texts like Wheelocks, but I'm comfortable with it, at this point. And I feel like I can teach this subject with the Form materials, because they're so well laid out. We may look into online courses for Henle II after we complete the Form books, but that's too far to worry about at this point. This is the plan, Lord willing. I know this doesn't help you a lot since my experience is minimal, but you can at least know that your idea to use the Form books in high school isn't "out there. " You are not alone. :)

[Jane Elliot]

Ds is in 8th and we are using FF this year. We are on lesson 11, but we really like it so far, and ds is getting it. He's doing really well and I'm finding it easy to teach with the DVD's. I have my own workbook and am taking the course with ds, so that I know what I'm doing. We have tried a couple of latin programs, but this one seems to speak to us. The workbooks provide lots of practice, and I think that is what we had been missing with the other programs. I'm planning on moving to 2nd Form in 9th when we finish FF. At that point I plan to issue a credit for 1st year latin. Then we'll move on to 3rd Form (which has translation excercises from Henle 1 that you can supplement with), and then 4th form. At that point I'll give another credit for Latin II. From there we'll move onto Henle II if we're still hanging in there in 11th grade and Henle III in 12th. grade. That will give us 4 years of latin. Not as rigorous as some using texts like Wheelocks, but I'm comfortable with it, at this point. And I feel like I can teach this subject with the Form materials, because they're so well laid out. We may look into online courses for Henle II after we complete the Form books, but that's too far to worry about at this point. This is the plan, Lord willing. I know this doesn't help you a lot since my experience is minimal, but you can at least know that your idea to use the Form books in high school isn't "out there. " You are not alone. :)

 

This is quite helpful. Thanks. So you do like the DVD's? I couldn't tell from the online sample whether or not the teacher is clear in his presentation.

 

Do you think they mean one semester credit when they say on the website:

"Completion of First Form Latin is equivalent to one high school credit in a foreign language"?

 

I've always given a half credit for each semester class and a full credit for a full year class, so I think I might have been confused. When ds looked at the scope of the course, he seemed to think First Form wasn't enough for a full year of high school Latin I. Is that your understanding?

[silliness7]

This is quite helpful. Thanks. So you do like the DVD's? I couldn't tell from the online sample whether or not the teacher is clear in his presentation.

 

Do you think they mean one semester credit when they say on the website:

"Completion of First Form Latin is equivalent to one high school credit in a foreign language"?

 

I've always given a half credit for each semester class and a full credit for a full year class, so I think I might have been confused. When ds looked at the scope of the course, he seemed to think First Form wasn't enough for a full year of high school Latin I. Is that your understanding?

 

My understanding was that Memoria Press planned to take Henle I which is a one year/one credit high school class and break it into 4 bite-sized chunks, First Form being the first chunk. But I cannot swear to this. It is just how I thought it was.

 

My 8th grader starts 2nd Form next week. He's studying for the final in 1st form this week. He had gotten through 1/2 of LCII before switching over to FF. It was a lot of review but with a lot more book work and application. He's been able to do it independently without the DVD's thus far. I'll be curious to see how 2nd form goes.

 

I was hoping 3rd and 4th forms would be out for his freshman/sophomore years and then I was going to give 1 Latin credit. Then move to Henle 2 and 3 for another 2 credits giving him a total of 3 Latin credits. His plans are changing and I think he's going to drop Latin once he hits highschool. But that was my plan anyway. It could be flawed...will love to see what others post about this.

[Zee]

This is quite helpful. Thanks. So you do like the DVD's? I couldn't tell from the online sample whether or not the teacher is clear in his presentation.

 

Do you think they mean one semester credit when they say on the website:

"Completion of First Form Latin is equivalent to one high school credit in a foreign language"?

 

I've always given a half credit for each semester class and a full credit for a full year class, so I think I might have been confused. When ds looked at the scope of the course, he seemed to think First Form wasn't enough for a full year of high school Latin I. Is that your understanding?

 

Yes, we like the DVD's and they are making the material clear to us both. I think the teacher is thorough, but not long-winded. The lessons are fairly short. He reviews things well. I think some would do fine with just the teacher's guide, but the DVD's help make the teacher's guide clear to me. I don't have experience with languages so I can use all the help I can get.

 

I think Memoria Press is saying that they would give one year of credit to a student completing the First Form book in High School. I think that's too generous. I agree with your son that First Form is not enough for a full year of high school credit. I plan to give one year of credit for two forms completed. Thus, the two credits I talked about in my first post.

 

Henle I is considered by some to be worth one year of high school credit and by others as two years since it largely completes the grammar (it has less vocab. than many other programs though). It depends on the person you talk to. Since it is acceptable by many to give two credits for completing Henle I, I am going to issue two high school years of credits when ds completes all four Forms. My understanding is that Henle II reviews the grammar in the first part of the book and then moves into reading and translation for much of the rest of the book. Completion of that entire book would be another credit.

 

This is what I have gleaned from talking to Memoria Press and reading TWTM boards over the years. HTH.

[Jane Elliot]

I was hoping 3rd and 4th forms would be out for his freshman/sophomore years and then I was going to give 1 Latin credit.

 

This is copied directly from their website:

"Completion of First Form Latin is equivalent to one high school credit in a foreign language."

 

So I think FF is at least one semester credit, which would make First through Fourth at least two full years of credit. I think?????? Maybe the four courses are Latin I and Latin II?

 

My three oldest dc did Henle. They thought it was dreadfully boring. I was hoping the four Form courses would take us through high school Latin, but now I'm wondering. Maybe I should look around on MP's website some more or write and ask them what the plan is.

[Jane Elliot]

Yes, we like the DVD's and they are making the material clear to us both. I think the teacher is thorough, but not long-winded. The lessons are fairly short. He reviews things well.

 

Good to know! Thank you.

 

Your assessment of the credits makes sense to me.

[Zee]

Just an FYI - I called them on the phone when I had First Form questions, and they were very knowledgeable about their product and helpful. Maybe give them a jingle. :)

[anissarobert]

I don't think that First Form can be used by itself for high school credit. My friend called me this summer and asked me about it when they saw that statement on the website. I called Memoria and asked them about it. They told me that the reason they say this, is that First Form has so much book work in it that it will take the right number of hours to count as a credit. They said they were basing their claim on the time it takes to complete the work and not on content.

 

I consider content more important, and I think from what I can tell at this point, that all four Forms wil be roughly equal to the content of Henle 1 and a bit of Henle 2. If so I don't think it will cover all that is in Wheelock's, a college text. My dd used Wheelock's in her online class from Artesian Wells Tutorials and I gave her credit for two years of high school for completing this text. I think that you would need most of the Four Forms to give a year of high school credit based on this. (I have only looked at First Form, so this is based on the answers from Memoria, and their forums.) Depending on what they include in the next two books, it may be, as you said that an argument could be made for giving 2 years of high school credit for the completion of the series, but I don't think it is equivelent to 4 years.

 

This is not to say that I don't like First Form. My 11 year-old son is on lesson 10 and we love it. I hope to have him complete all four years by the time he starts high school. I'm not sure if I will give him high school credit, because the work will be done earlier than that.

[Jane Elliot]

I don't think that First Form can be used by itself for high school credit. My friend called me this summer and asked me about it when they saw that statement on the website. I called Memoria and asked them about it. They told me that the reason they say this, is that First Form has so much book work in it that it will take the right number of hours to count as a credit. They said they were basing their claim on the time it takes to complete the work and not on content.

 

I consider content more important, and I think from what I can tell at this point, that all four Forms wil be roughly equal to the content of Henle 1 and a bit of Henle 2. If so I don't think it will cover all that is in Wheelock's, a college text. My dd used Wheelock's in her online class from Artesian Wells Tutorials and I gave her credit for two years of high school for completing this text. I think that you would need most of the Four Forms to give a year of high school credit based on this. (I have only looked at First Form, so this is based on the answers from Memoria, and their forums.) Depending on what they include in the next two books, it may be, as you said that an argument could be made for giving 2 years of high school credit for the completion of the series, but I don't think it is equivelent to 4 years.

 

This is not to say that I don't like First Form. My 11 year-old son is on lesson 10 and we love it. I hope to have him complete all four years by the time he starts high school. I'm not sure if I will give him high school credit, because the work will be done earlier than that.

 

Thank you for giving your thoughts on this; they help me clarify and form my own conclusions. I think your view of it is pretty much what ds was thinking when he saw the content, but it was hard to for him to come to conclusions with the third and fourth forms unavailable for viewing. As you said, I think it is fairly standard to give two years of high school credit for Wheelocks. It will be interesting to see how much content the forms end up covering by the time they finish the series. I completely agree with you on giving Latin credit based on content rather than time spent.