Questions about a statistics course...

[Jane Elliot]

I am embarrassed to be asking these questions, but I really do not know the answers and I know you will. Ds, a junior, is leaning heavily toward humanities, specifically history or political science or perhaps journalism. He has finished math through geometry and Algebra 2. I'm considering letting him do statistics instead of trigonometry or precalculus. It seems like this would be more useful to him.

 

Is there any reason I should reconsider this? Any other ideas?

 

Does statistics count as a math course on a transcript? And how do colleges view a statistics course?

 

Is it generally a one semester or two semester course?

 

Do you know of a good textbook/course for teaching statistics?

[Julie in MN]

Luann,

I don't know much, but I wanted to mention that I recently had a math discussion with my oldest son, who is an engineer in charge of natural gas wells. He said the only math field that he wishes he knew more about (and might like some materials for study) is statistics. He said it would really apply to his job. So as for usefulness, I can agree.

 

I don't know about college credits, but as for textbooks, here is the email I sent ds. Probably some of the info is from these boards. I have no personal knowledge.

 

 

 

• 1. Life of Fred Statistics, a book by Polka Dot Publishing. They use a story format with real-life examples, but get into fairly advanced math.
   
  Here's their website:

http://www.stanleyschmidt.com/FredGauss/11catofbooks.html
 
Here's a sample: http://www.stanleyschmidt.com/FredGauss/__LOF%20S%20%20sample23%20pages.pdf
 

 

• 2. DVD college lectures from The Teaching Company, called Meaning from Data: Statistics Made Clear by Michael Starbird. Here's their website.

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=1487
 
Note that their courses ALWAYS go on sale and I get good email coupons, but your LIBRARY is cheapest :o)
 

 

• 3. Books I've heard about in the homeschool world, and might be at your library, but I haven't actually seen them myself:
  - How To Lie With Statistics
  - Mathamatics: A Human Endeavor by Harold Jacobs (author of the geometry text Reid will be using this year)
  - EZ-101 Statistics by Barron's, or other statistics workbooks by Barron's, they make simple but thorough workbooks you can get at any bookstore or maybe the library
  - Math books at Art of Problem Solving site, including Intermediate Counting & Probability, I don't think it's at libraries but there are online books & online classes even:
  

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Store/viewitem.php?item=interm:counting

 

[Kareni]

My teen took AP Statistics through PA Homeschoolers as a senior in high school. It was a year long course, and she was well prepared for the AP test in May.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Paige]

I took statistics in high school (public school) and it really helped me in college. I think it is very worthwhile and it counted as a full credit and was a year long course. I would, however, really encourage him to do statistics and at least precalculus before graduating high school and not one or the other. I took precalculus first and then statistics instead of calculus in high school and I'd also suggest reversing the order. Statistics are not covered much on the ACT/SAT tests, or at least weren't when I took them, and by the time I took them my senior year, I was really rusty on a lot of typical math because it had been so long since I had done anything except stats without a calculator. Statistics can involve very high level math but it is just different and requires a different set of formulas and types of problem solving procedures. And then, by the time I had to do real math in college, it had been even longer since I had done all the precalc stuff and I was really rusty. I still have a recurring nightmare where I am in my college math class's testing room and I feel so unprepared because I have skipped months of classes! LOL!!! Not that I skipped classes in that class often, but I guess it shows how I felt about taking a few years off of traditional math. And for me at least, statistics were easier to remember. So, even though I hadn't had stats for a few years by the time I took it again in college, it was a breeze because it all came back to me so quickly and I felt way ahead of everyone else.

 

I have no idea what you'd use to teach someone, though. My kids are young. My impulse is to suggest that if you don't know statistics well yourself, then he would need to find some kind of online, DVD, community college, or some kind of curriculum that involves direct instruction from a real person explaining things. It can get complicated. If you have a good background in stats, however, you could probably walk him through any textbook type course that people say is good.

[Irene Lynn]

My dd is applying to a Liberal Arts college to major in Creative Writing. Their admission requirements include 4 years of math. I did have my dd take Precalculus, but for her senior year she is taking Statistics & Probability, because it did seem more applicable to her future.

 

Her load is heavy this year, so I have kept this course a little lighter. We are using the Teaching Company videos for both Statistics and Probability. I had her read through The Cartoon Guide for Statistics and she is also working through Statistics Demystified. I found that book at Borders Bookstore. It covers a number of things and has math problems to do and quizzes and tests. It also includes some probability. It isn't a tough year, but she is learning. :) It looks like she might take a statistics class in college, so this will give her some foundation.

 

She will have to take College Algebra at least. You might consider having your son do both or at least take some precalculus at a slow rate (like a semester worth of credit spread over the year) his senior year so his skills are fresh. If he has not gone past Algebra II and then has a year off, College Algebra might be pretty tough. If he keeps it brushed up a bit, while learning something else that will be practical for him, he might have a better Freshman year.

 

For what it is worth, I think that taking Statistics is more practical than Calculus for the Liberal Arts major, if they have to choose.

[Mejane]

 

For what it is worth, I think that taking Statistics is more practical than Calculus for the Liberal Arts major, if they have to choose.

 

:iagree:My daughter will be taking Stats next semester at cc, and I will be giving her a full credit on her hs transcript. It will be her fourth math course along with Alg. 1 and 2 and Geometry.

[Jane Elliot]

Thank you for linking to all these resources! I'll look into them.

[Jane Elliot]

I would, however, really encourage him to do statistics and at least precalculus before graduating high school and not one or the other.

 

I'm just wondering why he would do precalculus. My four older dc did precalculus (my current senior is doing Calculus II) but they were all science majors. No way will this ds go into science. I don't get why he needs precalculus. I'm willing to be convinced that he does need it, but at this point I just can't see it. He's in NCFCA this year. He's working on Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student and AP Government and AP U.S. History and Apologia Physics and writing and Latin and 4H (and who knows what else I'm forgetting here - ETA: Great books. I was forgetting great books. Two hours/day.) There's only so much time in a day. It seemed like eliminating precalculus, doing an SAT math review, then doing statistics as his fourth math would give us some leeway in his schedule.

 

I think I probably need to start a new thread titled "Convince me a humanities major needs precalculus."

Edited October 29, 2010 by Luann in ID

[Jane Elliot]

My dd is applying to a Liberal Arts college to major in Creative Writing. Their admission requirements include 4 years of math. I did have my dd take Precalculus, but for her senior year she is taking Statistics & Probability, because it did seem more applicable to her future.

 

Her load is heavy this year, so I have kept this course a little lighter. We are using the Teaching Company videos for both Statistics and Probability. I had her read through The Cartoon Guide for Statistics and she is also working through Statistics Demystified. I found that book at Borders Bookstore. It covers a number of things and has math problems to do and quizzes and tests. It also includes some probability. It isn't a tough year, but she is learning. :) It looks like she might take a statistics class in college, so this will give her some foundation.

 

She will have to take College Algebra at least. You might consider having your son do both or at least take some precalculus at a slow rate (like a semester worth of credit spread over the year) his senior year so his skills are fresh. If he has not gone past Algebra II and then has a year off, College Algebra might be pretty tough. If he keeps it brushed up a bit, while learning something else that will be practical for him, he might have a better Freshman year.

 

For what it is worth, I think that taking Statistics is more practical than Calculus for the Liberal Arts major, if they have to choose.

 

We have three maths so far because he did Algebra in 9th and geometry and Algebra II concurrently in 10th. He only needs one more math. Two more would kill the kid.:tongue_smilie:

 

The idea of staying brushed up so as to do well in College Algebra makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for suggesting that.

 

Thanks for telling me what you're using for statistics. They look good, especially the TC course. I'll look into them.

[Jane Elliot]

:iagree:My daughter will be taking Stats next semester at cc, and I will be giving her a full credit on her hs transcript. It will be her fourth math course along with Alg. 1 and 2 and Geometry.

 

This is exactly how it would look for us if we did statistics (Alg 1 and 2, geometry, and statistics). Others have mentioned the need for precalc. This would be the first student I've had that didn't do precalc. I'm wondering how you came to the conclusion that you could ditch precalc and do statistics instead. It seems to make sense to me to go that route (statistics instead of precalc), but since I have no experience with it, I'm waffling.

[creekland]

This is exactly how it would look for us if we did statistics (Alg 1 and 2, geometry, and statistics). Others have mentioned the need for precalc. This would be the first student I've had that didn't do precalc. I'm wondering how you came to the conclusion that you could ditch precalc and do statistics instead. It seems to make sense to me to go that route (statistics instead of precalc), but since I have no experience with it, I'm waffling.

 

At our high school a student can't take Stats without having already had Pre-Calc. The one is not dependent on the other for math, so I think the reasoning would be more along the lines of what colleges expect to see.

 

No one at our ps who is college bound gets out of Pre-Calc. Since most have already done Alg 1 in 7th or 8th grade, that doesn't count on a transcript. The "usual" line up looks like:

 

Geometry

Alg 2

Pre-Calc

College Alg (essentially a review of Pre-Calc & Alg to keep skills up), Stats, or Calc pending their future. Some double up and do more, and many do more due to having Geometry in 8th grade.

 

In your specific situation, I'd check to see what desired colleges would recommend. If they don't have a problem with Stats instead of Pre-Calc, I wouldn't either.

 

For my son who is hoping to do the AP Stats test in May, we're using The Practice of Statistics by Yates, Moore, and I think one other person. (Note, this is not Intro to Practice or Basics of which are by the same author(s?), but not supposedly as good via hearsay.) But if you only want an overview and not an AP prep, I suspect the Teaching Company or Life of Fred are good.

[Jane Elliot]

At our high school a student can't take Stats without having already had Pre-Calc. The one is not dependent on the other for math, so I think the reasoning would be more along the lines of what colleges expect to see.

 

No one at our ps who is college bound gets out of Pre-Calc. Since most have already done Alg 1 in 7th or 8th grade, that doesn't count on a transcript. The "usual" line up looks like:

 

Geometry

Alg 2

Pre-Calc

College Alg (essentially a review of Pre-Calc & Alg to keep skills up), Stats, or Calc pending their future. Some double up and do more, and many do more due to having Geometry in 8th grade.

 

In your specific situation, I'd check to see what desired colleges would recommend. If they don't have a problem with Stats instead of Pre-Calc, I wouldn't either.

 

For my son who is hoping to do the AP Stats test in May, we're using The Practice of Statistics by Yates, Moore, and I think one other person. (Note, this is not Intro to Practice or Basics of which are by the same author(s?), but not supposedly as good via hearsay.) But if you only want an overview and not an AP prep, I suspect the Teaching Company or Life of Fred are good.

 

A lot of great advice here. Thanks! I'll check his top choice colleges today.

[Paige]

I'm just wondering why he would do precalculus. My four older dc did precalculus (my current senior is doing Calculus II) but they were all science majors. No way will this ds go into science. I don't get why he needs precalculus. I'm willing to be convinced that he does need it, but at this point I just can't see it. He's in NCFCA this year. He's working on Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student and AP Government and AP U.S. History and Apologia Physics and writing and Latin and 4H (and who knows what else I'm forgetting here - ETA: Great books. I was forgetting great books. Two hours/day.) There's only so much time in a day. It seemed like eliminating precalculus, doing an SAT math review, then doing statistics as his fourth math would give us some leeway in his schedule.

 

I think I probably need to start a new thread titled "Convince me a humanities major needs precalculus."

 

The reason I think he would benefit from precalculus is that my college math I was required to take as a prereq. for all future math classes and all degrees was very, very, very similar to my high school precalculus class. It isn't just algebra or algebra 2. I had a hard time with it because math is not my favorite subject and it had been so long since I had done it before. (Still got an A, just not an easy high A). I am sure if I hadn't had precalc in high school that the college math class would have been horrible! The high school class went slower and was smaller. The college class was really large since everyone had to take it. It will also improve his math scores on entrance exams and should he ever change his mind in college and want to switch to a major that requires higher math, it would put him at a disadvantage, and I think having precalc on the transcript is pretty much expected these days. So many kids have already taken calculus in high school, that anything less than precalc looks pretty weak in comparison and he will be compared.