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#1 UmMusa

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 11:30 AM

Ok, now that I've been reading here for several weeks, I noticed that hardly anyone uses LLATL for language. It's what I happened to buy for my first year hs'ing per the recommendation of Rainbow Resource.

I find it pretty easy, I didn't know that I should go for the grade level ahead of what the kids are in. In addition to LLATL we use GUM Drops for grammar and Modern Curriculum Press for Spelling. I am wondering if it's enough writing and language. They finish their lessons very quickly every day.

What do you say? Is there something else I could use (secular) that would be a little more rigorous? Or maybe this is enough for them at grade 3 and 4?

#2 Tidbits of Learning

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 12:09 PM

Personally, I am enjoying LLATL. It is very enjoyable and not so much busy work. I like the copywork, dictation, and narration aspects. That said, we do add some more grammar. We also have the gum drops but I don't plan to use that until after we finish our more traditional grammar work. We bought ours from Rainbow Resource as well.
As far as whether it is too easy, I think it depends on what you are looking for in a program. I have read that it builds upon itself and you really have to stick with it to see the fruits of your labor.
This year we are not adding in any spelling. I am thinking of adding Sequential Spelling for my poor speller, but my natural speller is fine with just the LLATL suggested words. For vocabulary, I am adding in Wordly Wise. I am doing this mainly b/c we have to take standardized tests in 3rd grade and up. We also add in GUM Grammar from Zaner Bloser. I have a 4th and 5th grader that I add in things to LLATL. My 2nd grader I do not add anything.
GUM Grammar is secular and workbook form. If you like spelling workout, you will like GUM Grammar. I did not buy the teacher's guide from Zaner Bloser, but bought the answer key from homeschool supercenter. I think I will get the teacher's guide next year though. Homeschool Supercenter is where I got mine at though and they didn't offer the teacher's guide from Zaner Bloser. We add in GUM Grammar on M,W, and F and Wordly Wise on T,Th as independent work after a brief going over with me on the grammar.
I don't find that LLATL is less in writing than other programs. dd10 used Abeka Language A last year and while she did more busy work with Abeka, it seems that it covered the same things that LLATL Purple is covering this year with dd9 for 4th grade. I don't necessarily agree that you have to go a year ahead with LLATL. In both Abeka and LLATL (4th grade), there is the letter to the Chamber of Commerce to get more information on your state and the research paper. I find it much easier to tackle with LLATL that really teaches the children how to outline and take notes and research and document the research. With Abeka, I found it more stressful and less guiding the child as telling the child without really explaining it well for them how to take notes. You had the "example" students work and note-taking with Abeka, but it didn't take you step by step through it as well. With LLATL, it guides you through how to take notes and has you take notes from the story passages in the first 3 lessons. It may seem less rigorous, but it is yielding much better results than the "example" research notes and papers and such from Abeka without real guidance on how to do it yourself.
If you want to add in a secular grammar program, then I would recommend GUM Grammar. I do think though that if you stick with LLATL you get to the same point in the end as more "rigorous" programs.

#3 UmMusa

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 12:19 PM

Thank you! We are using GUM Grammar. I guess we're doing fine then!!

#4 Tidbits of Learning

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 12:30 PM

Thank you! We are using GUM Grammar. I guess we're doing fine then!!


I noticed you wrote GUM drops grammar which is what Rainbow Resource sells in your first post. We have that as well but haven't started it. This is the GUM Grammar that I was talking about from Zaner Bloser.
http://www.zaner-blo...-Mechanics.html
Is this the one you are using as well or is it
http://www.rainbowre...7854922-1960775

#5 UmMusa

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 12:56 PM

My bad! We use GUM Drops not GUM Grammar!

#6 Tidbits of Learning

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 01:03 PM

My bad! We use GUM Drops not GUM Grammar!


I like the looks of GUM Drops, but we haven't gotten to it yet this year. It seems neat though the way that they use passages to learn the grammar. Are you liking it so far?

#7 Ellie

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 01:06 PM

People *here* might not use LLATL, but there are lots of other hsers who do. :-)

I didn't use it, but I have read many replies from people whose dc used it through high school, and they were very satisified with the end results.

#8 Mom2absh

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 01:25 PM

I have tried lots of other things, and now I am using LLATL Yellow for my 3rd grader. I like the pace and the simple explanations. It's not rigorous, but it's not too simple, either. I don't think you should feel guilty at all - the choices you've made are solid ones, you are covering the LA bases, and your kids are getting the work done. As long as they remember it, you are doing great!

J

#9 mama25angels

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 02:02 PM

I will be using LLATL with my DS starting in 4th grade and I use both the HS books, we've also used the 7th grade book when with my older DS.

#10 mammaofbean

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:18 PM

it seems gentle and fun, my dd couldn't use it because he writing skills are so far behind her reading skills. i only have the blue, i used the book suggestions and we used the readers. i think they are worlds better than bob books. one of the first books dd ever read was Mom is hot. ha!

#11 delaney

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:22 PM

I use R&S for grammar but LLATL for reading and grammar enrichment. I hate the letter to the Chamber of Commerce research thing. Really? Wouldn't it be better to guide them to gathering info on the state through the internet? Who really writes for that kind of stuff anymore? Maybe it's just me but it seems a bit dated in that respect. Anyway we are using orange and red and I really love them!

#12 BatmansWife

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:42 PM

Do most people use the newer versions of LLATL?? I know that by now they probably really aren't considered the newer versions (they've been around for a long time). Years ago.......gosh, I don't know...maybe over 10 years ago, they began coming out with the newer versions. Back then quite a few homeschoolers said they preferred the older versions. So....I ended up collecting all levels of the older version. But, here they sit. I didn't use them with my son, for various reasons. Now I wonder if my youngest dd should use the series. But.....maybe the newest versions are better. :confused: :confused:

#13 Homeschooling6

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:54 PM

I have three dc using LLATL. I like them.

My 7th grader is using LLATL {tan}4xweek amd Saxon Grammar 3xwk.

Dd 5th grade uses LLATL {purple} and has the same schedule as my 7th ds.

Ds 2nd grade uses LLATL {blue} along with Saxon Phonics.

#14 Homeschooling6

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:57 PM

Do most people use the newer versions of LLATL?? I know that by now they probably really aren't considered the newer versions (they've been around for a long time). Years ago.......gosh, I don't know...maybe over 10 years ago, they began coming out with the newer versions. Back then quite a few homeschoolers said they preferred the older versions. So....I ended up collecting all levels of the older version. But, here they sit. I didn't use them with my son, for various reasons. Now I wonder if my youngest dd should use the series. But.....maybe the newest versions are better. :confused: :confused:


I have both versions. My sister collected all the older ones and gave them to me :001_smile: but I decided to purchase the newer ones as well. I have been meaning to blog about the difference, but haven't taken the time to really look at both.
Up-front I prefer the newer ones. The tm has answers and I like the student activity pages. It just makes my life easier to have the student workbook and the answers.


#15 HollyDay

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:46 PM

Is LLATL crummy? Only if you don't like it and it isn't working

#16 mama25angels

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 06:14 PM

I have both versions. My sister collected all the older ones and gave them to me :001_smile: but I decided to purchase the newer ones as well. I have been meaning to blog about the difference, but haven't taken the time to really look at both.
Up-front I prefer the newer ones. The tm has answers and I like the student activity pages. It just makes my life easier to have the student workbook and the answers.




Please blog about it!!! I've been trying to find the old ones especially for 1st and 2nd grade, but will probably.

#17 snipsnsnailsx5

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 06:27 PM

I'm using Yellow with my 3rd grader right now and Tan with my 6th grader.

I don't know about older or newer editions? I bought them both used off Ebay. I believe they are newer though. I have student activity pages for yellow that look entirely different, and I think they are an older version. They still match up pretty well with the newer teacher manual though? So far at least..lol

My gripes about LLATL - its just too confusing to me. May sound silly, since you should just be able to follow the lessons. I never know how much I should teach in one day, and if I can just go through the lessons from cover to cover, or if I should skip around to pick out pieces for grammar, reading, writing, etc for each day's lesson.
We don't use it for spelling so I'm picking through it and taking out the spelling parts. I also am doing some grammar already with FLL and WWE (for my 3rd grader). I do like the literary/reading parts though. However I've found that each level is laid out differently. Maybe that's why its confusing me.
I saw LLATL Green sample pages and the layout looked MUCH better to me. I may move my 11 yr old up to Green if I decide not to just drop LLATL all together.

#18 mystika1

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:06 PM

I wanted an all-in-one program for LA and LLATL works just fine for me. I plan on using it til the end. I also printed out the Kiss Grammar workbook and will give my dd a page or two each week just for extra umph. I am currently also using AAS level 1. I just started using LLATL a couple of weeks ago and may very well drop AAS if the spelling in LLATL is sufficient.(It is too early to tell):D

If it is working for your family I would not quit. I have tried many programs and find the gentle programs work the best. At least for us......

BTW, I wish I would have gone with my dd's grade level instead of going a year ahead. The copywork is a bit much and the spelling words are a bit advanced.

HTH,

Penny

#19 HollyDay

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:46 PM

We are using the Gold American book this year for 9th. I think it is excellent. It is just what I wanted for 9th grade.....

#20 BatmansWife

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:53 PM

When only the original older version was available, I think it started with Red for 2nd grade. Now there is Blue for 1st grade in the current version. Has anyone used the Blue? I thought I read that it teaches phonics. Would this mean actually teaching reading?? Because we already have a different reading program.


I have both versions. My sister collected all the older ones and gave them to me :001_smile: but I decided to purchase the newer ones as well. I have been meaning to blog about the difference, but haven't taken the time to really look at both.
Up-front I prefer the newer ones. The tm has answers and I like the student activity pages. It just makes my life easier to have the student workbook and the answers.


Thank you. This makes sense. :iagree:.....it would be great if you'd blog about it.

I don't know about older or newer editions? I bought them both used off Ebay. I believe they are newer though. I have student activity pages for yellow that look entirely different, and I think they are an older version. They still match up pretty well with the newer teacher manual though? So far at least..lol


It sounds like you probably have the newer version. The original one didn't have separate student pages. Here's a picture of the old LLATL yellow:

http://www.amazon.co...87884883&sr=8-3

Here's the "newer" edition:

http://www.amazon.co...87884883&sr=8-1

#21 LindaOz

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 01:22 AM

Do most people use the newer versions of LLATL?? I know that by now they probably really aren't considered the newer versions (they've been around for a long time). Years ago.......gosh, I don't know...maybe over 10 years ago, they began coming out with the newer versions. Back then quite a few homeschoolers said they preferred the older versions. So....I ended up collecting all levels of the older version. But, here they sit. I didn't use them with my son, for various reasons. Now I wonder if my youngest dd should use the series. But.....maybe the newest versions are better. :confused: :confused:


I have 5 children using LLATL and I really like the program.

One of my kids has just finished Red and we used the 'old' version. The older version does not have a workbook but just the Teacher Manual and the child does the writing and activities on other paper - we used an exercise book. The newer version has a student workbook. The two editions do vary in their content (although the concepts covered are probably the same by the end of the book).

Some differences are:

1. The newer book doesn't introduce copywork passages until Week 26 whereas the older version has them from the start.
2. The newer book has readers that are part of the program, but the older book doesn't (child reads the small lit selection that the work revolves around that week. It may be a verse from a rhyme or a couple of sentences from a story.)
3. The newer book has a lot of cut/paste activities but the older one has only a few.
4. The older book probably has less writing, although I usually had my dd write answers instead of just discussing them as suggested which increased the writing load. The newer version is set up to do writing activities in the workbook.

Actually, I was just flicking through the Red Workbook (newer) and noticed that Lesson 20 has the student identifying Subject and Predicate which is something that the old version didn't go into, so maybe the new version does go a bit more into grammar than the old.

Having said all that, all my older kids use the newer version because it is more user friendly for them to work independently with the workbook. I used the older version for Red because I found it easier to work with my dd with just the Teacher Manual version and it was less fiddly with cut/paste activities. The new edition looks really good though and seems to be more linked to the books that the kids read.

Anyway, hope that helps.

#22 BatmansWife

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:27 AM

I have 5 children using LLATL and I really like the program.

One of my kids has just finished Red and we used the 'old' version. The older version does not have a workbook but just the Teacher Manual and the child does the writing and activities on other paper - we used an exercise book. The newer version has a student workbook. The two editions do vary in their content (although the concepts covered are probably the same by the end of the book).

Some differences are:

1. The newer book doesn't introduce copywork passages until Week 26 whereas the older version has them from the start.
2. The newer book has readers that are part of the program, but the older book doesn't (child reads the small lit selection that the work revolves around that week. It may be a verse from a rhyme or a couple of sentences from a story.)
3. The newer book has a lot of cut/paste activities but the older one has only a few.
4. The older book probably has less writing, although I usually had my dd write answers instead of just discussing them as suggested which increased the writing load. The newer version is set up to do writing activities in the workbook.

Actually, I was just flicking through the Red Workbook (newer) and noticed that Lesson 20 has the student identifying Subject and Predicate which is something that the old version didn't go into, so maybe the new version does go a bit more into grammar than the old.

Having said all that, all my older kids use the newer version because it is more user friendly for them to work independently with the workbook. I used the older version for Red because I found it easier to work with my dd with just the Teacher Manual version and it was less fiddly with cut/paste activities. The new edition looks really good though and seems to be more linked to the books that the kids read.

Anyway, hope that helps.


Thank you so much Linda for taking the time to post this. It's nice to hear from someone using it with so many kids and who is enjoying it. I take it that you didn't use the Blue?

#23 LindaOz

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:06 AM

Thank you so much Linda for taking the time to post this. It's nice to hear from someone using it with so many kids and who is enjoying it. I take it that you didn't use the Blue?


No, I didn't use Blue. I looked at it but personally found it a bit too fiddly. Maybe it was more that I didn't have the time to put into it. I've read of other people who have used it successfully though.

#24 Tammyla

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:13 AM

The newer versions are divided into numbered weekly lessons (36). Each lesson is then divided into numbered sections 1-5, just as the week is M-F. I'm not sure how the older versions were broken down.

http://commonsensepress.com/ has samples from the latest versions you can see and print


LLATL is very gentle in the early years, the middle and high school books aren't.

I'm using Yellow with my 3rd grader right now and Tan with my 6th grader.

I don't know about older or newer editions? I bought them both used off Ebay. I believe they are newer though. I have student activity pages for yellow that look entirely different, and I think they are an older version. They still match up pretty well with the newer teacher manual though? So far at least..lol

My gripes about LLATL - its just too confusing to me. May sound silly, since you should just be able to follow the lessons. I never know how much I should teach in one day, and if I can just go through the lessons from cover to cover, or if I should skip around to pick out pieces for grammar, reading, writing, etc for each day's lesson.
We don't use it for spelling so I'm picking through it and taking out the spelling parts. I also am doing some grammar already with FLL and WWE (for my 3rd grader). I do like the literary/reading parts though. However I've found that each level is laid out differently. Maybe that's why its confusing me.
I saw LLATL Green sample pages and the layout looked MUCH better to me. I may move my 11 yr old up to Green if I decide not to just drop LLATL all together.


Edited by Tammyla, 25 October 2010 - 09:29 AM.


#25 Tidbits of Learning

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:18 AM

The newer versions are divided into numbered into 36 weekly lessons. Each lesson is then divided into numbered sections 1-5, just as the week is M-F. I'm not sure how the older versions were broken down.

http://commonsensepress.com/ has samples from the latest versions you can see and print


LLATL is very gentle in the early years, the middle and high school books aren't.


What grade do you think it changes from being so gentle?

#26 Homeschooling6

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:24 AM

April, I'm using the Blue with my 7yr. old ds. I don't have time to go into detail right now {family visiting} but it does have some coloring, cutting and pasting. I really like it. I wanted a fun year with my Ethan. My kiddos are growing up to fast ;)

I have blogged about things we do using LLAT. {Type in 'learning language arts through literature' in the search box} Last week we read about the Ant and Grasshopper. He retold me the story and we colored two pictures, glued them on a piece of paper and talked about what the ants were doing and the grasshopper. We then wrote on the bottom, under the pictures.

With the little readers the child retells the story as well and puts the pictures in sequence. We are on week 5.

Edited by Homeschooling6, 25 October 2010 - 09:26 AM.


#27 Tidbits of Learning

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:55 AM

April, I'm using the Blue with my 7yr. old ds. I don't have time to go into detail right now {family visiting} but it does have some coloring, cutting and pasting. I really like it. I wanted a fun year with my Ethan. My kiddos are growing up to fast ;)

I have blogged about things we do using LLAT. {Type in 'learning language arts through literature' in the search box} Last week we read about the Ant and Grasshopper. He retold me the story and we colored two pictures, glued them on a piece of paper and talked about what the ants were doing and the grasshopper. We then wrote on the bottom, under the pictures.

With the little readers the child retells the story as well and puts the pictures in sequence. We are on week 5.


I love your blog. It is very interesting how you use so many different things so well together. Do you think LLATL Blue would be too much for a 4 yr old?

#28 Tammyla

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 01:28 PM

What grade do you think it changes from being so gentle?


Depends on the age and grade level the child is working at, but I think it gradually picks up in the middle school grades. jmo ymmv:001_smile:

#29 BatmansWife

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 01:49 PM

April, I'm using the Blue with my 7yr. old ds. I don't have time to go into detail right now {family visiting} but it does have some coloring, cutting and pasting. I really like it. I wanted a fun year with my Ethan. My kiddos are growing up to fast ;)

I have blogged about things we do using LLAT. {Type in 'learning language arts through literature' in the search box} Last week we read about the Ant and Grasshopper. He retold me the story and we colored two pictures, glued them on a piece of paper and talked about what the ants were doing and the grasshopper. We then wrote on the bottom, under the pictures.

With the little readers the child retells the story as well and puts the pictures in sequence. We are on week 5.


Thank you for posting. My 7 year old is my baby and last child....I feel as you do....that they grow up so fast. That's why I tend to takes things much slower with this last child....I don't feel any need to rush her. So, maybe the blue level will work well for her. I looked at samples of Red and I don't think she'd be ready for it yet.

#30 LindaOz

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 04:04 PM

Thank you for posting. My 7 year old is my baby and last child....I feel as you do....that they grow up so fast. That's why I tend to takes things much slower with this last child....I don't feel any need to rush her. So, maybe the blue level will work well for her. I looked at samples of Red and I don't think she'd be ready for it yet.


It sounds like Blue Level would be just what you want!!!

#31 Tidbits of Learning

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:23 PM

Depends on the age and grade level the child is working at, but I think it gradually picks up in the middle school grades. jmo ymmv:001_smile:

I was curious b/c we started LLATL this year with my dd10-5th grade, dd9-4th grade, and ds7-2nd grade. The dictation seems to be longer in the purple book, but I am not seeing it as much harder than the orange book.

#32 RanchGirl

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:31 PM

I don't think it's crummy. I bought yellow to start and I really liked the looks and the idea. Seemed really 'open and go' and covered everything LA related in one shot and included real literature. Unfortunately, my kids are both very asynchronous... in particular their reading is way ahead of their writing. So it wasn't a good fit for them.

#33 Miss Sherry

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:36 PM

Thank you! We are using GUM Grammar. I guess we're doing fine then!!

Gum Grammar looks good to me. I have a few levels of it. I use Winston Grammar for my main program but I supplement a little bit with other programs if needed. I was given several T.E. of GUM.

#34 khall

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:12 PM

I think this is a very well done and comprehensive curriculum. We started off the year with dd8 in yellow and ds10 in orange. We've moved away from it a bit as both the kiddos are all over the place for LA, so we were finding that we really had to tweak this to fit certain areas (spelling, for example). If you have kids that are more consistent across the board, then I imagine this curriculum would work wonderfully. I just realized a few weeks ago that I had managed to substitute LLATL right out of existence since I was substituting for spelling, adding in phonics, and using a different copywork/dictation program (just because we had it and really liked it). I keep pulling it out for extras though. We just did some phone book lessons, and we'll pull it out again for the newspaper sections. These are topics I don't think I've seen in other curriculum options, but what great applications of LA skills!

#35 Homeschooling6

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:30 PM

I love your blog. It is very interesting how you use so many different things so well together. Do you think LLATL Blue would be too much for a 4 yr old?


Thanks, I really enjoy blogging.

One thing I have learned is to meet my children where they are at. I no longer look at curriculum as grade levels {:chillpill:}. I like using more than one program because I can pull what I need from them. I don't stress out about not finishing every single page of every program/workbook anymore. I'm a bit more relaxed with homeschooling now. If it's raining outside we stop school and play in the rain and have fun in the mud. The books will always be there but not my children. Making memories is important to me.
I don't mean relaxed as in I let my kids play all day but just take time to smell the flowers as they say.

As far as the LLATL the blue book, it depends on the maturity level of the child. My ds 7 can read the 'Bob' like books but this year is about having fun with him. I can see the readers becoming more challenging for him. The Blue book is a great fit for him. I'm looking forward to the red book next year.


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