S/O: What's wrong with being a '1950's wife'?

[Mejane]

Now, as a SAHM, I get to listen feminists who state that being at home with your children full-time is a waste (is that not the Anti-Christ speaking, or what) and that I'm "setting women back" with my choice.

 

Radical feminists, not all feminists. Certainly not this one. ;)

[Wendi]

I find it alarming that Brother does homework, but Daughter makes dinner and does not study. She went to school- didn't girls have homework back then?

 

Sister does her homework after she finishes cleaning up the kitchen, silly!:D

 

Wendi

[Ohdanigirl]

I have heard women talk about how much their marriages improved when they began serving their husbands more, but I never hear men talk about how much their marriage improved when they began serving their wives more. I'm only asking in this thread, "Why is that?"

 

 

 

They may not write about it, but I am sure it exists....

 

I think it depends on how you view the whole thing. Some people hear "serving" and think bad. Others are quite the opposite. I was very young when I got married and at first I was always saying well your arms aren't broken, and such. I am not sure why, but one day I just decide to try things with out the smart comments. They really weren't big things either. Those extra little things did change things a lot. In return my dh serves me as well. I mean, he adores me. I know everyone notices too. I think it even drives my MIL crazy. LOL

 

I know for a fact that dh brags to everyone about his wife (me). He just hasn't put it in a book. And he goes out of his way to make me happy. He will rub my feet, paint my toe nails, take me to eat when I don't feel like cooking, or even (gasp) do the cooking himself. He even cleans the house when he is home. I get flowers, chocolates, and googly eyes all the time. I think those extras actually have given me more power, not less. In all these ways he is serving me and it has made our relationship so much better and stronger. My BIL's and their wives even say they strive to be like us.

 

So although it started with me, it lead to dh doing extras to serve me and has made for a great marriage. Now that doesn't mean everyone has to do it. It is just what worked for us.

 

Danielle

[HeidiKC]

I haven't read all the comments, but so far I'm enjoying this thread and finding it amusing. A few thoughts:

 

- I never get the thing about making it easy on Dad when he comes home: low-stress atmosphere, he really needs to relax, etc. I mean it'd be nice for him, but it'd be REALLY nice for me, too! One time my wonderful MIL was staying with us after we'd had our 3rd baby. My husband arrived home and it was pretty chaotic that day, and the older two kids wanted his attention and were also misbehaving, the baby was crying, etc. The bad behavior and crying had been a big part of that day. So my MIL says something along the lines of: "Poor Dad! He just wants to relax at the end of a hard day and in he walks to this." I said, "are you kidding me? We've had to listen to this most of the day while he's dealt with well-behaved adults!" I've worked full-time and I've been a mom full-time. While being a full-time mom is definitely what I want to do and is more rewarding, I think it is certainly more stressful or difficult on many days than any job I ever had was!

 

- I do get the thing about wanting to have a tidy house and dinner ready when Dad comes home. Not that it ever happens around here, but I like the idea of it. What I DON'T get at all (and it seems hilarious to me!) is the part about "having the children washed". Did they really do that in the 1950s? I mean, did they do bath-time at 4:30 pm or what does "washed" mean? Did they change clothes and just wipes hands/faces or WHAT? This just cracks me up. I don't even get why that would be appealing to Dad. With my 3 boys I think he'd wonder - didn't they do anything fun at all today? Maybe I'm weird, but I like it when my kids are kind of grubby. Not grubby like nasty food on them, but dirt from outside. Of course we take a bath before bedtime, but I like the grub on them until them. Looks like they are living life to the fullest!

 

- I do love June Cleaver and like the idea of her life, but it is never going to happen around here! Honestly, is that realistic at all? When that show was on, were the moms laughing or were some of them like that?!

[tristangrace]

Before I can answer the OP's question, the term has to be defined.

 

If by "1950's housewife" you mean "a married-with-kids woman who is extremely competent and successful at keeping the home calm, well-organized and well-run," then I say there's nothing wrong with that.

 

The housewife of the 1950's, for better and for worse, is an IDEALIZED image of a homemaker--really, really good at what she does, and what she does revolved around home and family.

 

I think people react against both the lack of realism in that image--it's virtually unattainable--and against the limitations of her sphere, as the stereotypical housewife was limited to home-and-family, and she was not typically given any power or respect beyond that. I think there are good reasons to react against both those things . . .

 

. . . but I also think it's silly for folks to turn up their noses at competence in any field, and it strikes me as particularly narrow-minded and arse-backwards to deny respect to competence in the realm of home and family.

[nono]

I left a very lucrative position b/c I valued my time with my family more than I valued comforts

 

Tara

 

Tangent:

 

I always say to folks who think that full-time work is the only way to be, "I earned my way out." (Note, that does not mean I think everyone should have to do that. It puts a spin on it, though, for those who are trying to tell me there's only one way!) As someone else put it elsewhere in this thread, our seasons!

[Carol in Cal.]

My recollection is the opposite. My mom and her peers really seemed to enjoy their lives. Maybe they were all on Valium and I just didn't know it? ;)

 

You know, I knew one person like that--the woman my mom's brother married. They did not live close enough for us to visit until I was 11 or so, but I remember how striking it was to me to hear that she liked cooking enough to take classes, and how it occurred to me rather suddenly that not everyone hates this job that all women seem to be stuck with. But we did not see much of her, and this was the only example I knew of. It was nice to have it in the back of my head that this was at least theoretically possible.

[LostSurprise]

I think the 1950s have reached a legendary status (either good or bad).

 

Sometimes I wonder if we're so disconnected from our grandparents that we don't know what it was like? I've visited with both my grandmothers many times and there were things they liked and didn't like about that time. They both stress that it was a learning time, knowing what society expected of them and finding what worked for them.

 

I have one grandmother who 'served' her husband and children. She considered it a small part of the freedom she had the rest of her day. Freedom to learn, and make friends, work, and do things inside and outside of the house. She said my grandfather had to serve his customers part of the day. His day was not totally his own...no one's is.

 

My other grandmother had a workaholic husband she rarely saw. The television image just wasn't here for her.

 

I see the same thing played out in my mother's life (starting at society's expectations and learning from there) and in my own life. I have several aunts that made it through the sexual revolution and still aren't happy with their relationships. I really don't see much of a difference--other then that society is constantly changing and therefore our expectations change.

 

People expect me to use my expensive degree and get a job. People expect us to own a house, have our children in several activities, public school, pay for their college educations, dress well, have a clean house, make healthy meals, own 2 cars, go on vacations, not have long hair after 30, shave my legs every day, make a big deal out of Christmas, blahblahblah.

 

We make fun of an era we don't even understand outside of television and movies. We do that because it makes us feel better about our own lives and the way we give in to society's dictates.

Edited September 22, 2010 by LostSurprise

[GraciebytheBay]

Regarding the valium comment, dh says that it was extremely common in the 1950s for housewives to be prescribed valium. This is part of history, not just speculation or snarkiness. (Dh has been an American history professor for 20 years.) He just told me more about it, and it is fascinating stuff.

[Mrs Mungo]

Regarding the valium comment, dh says that it was extremely common in the 1950s for housewives to be prescribed valium. This is part of history, not just speculation or snarkiness. (Dh has been an American history professor for 20 years.) He just told me more about it, and it is fascinating stuff.

 

If you go to the doctor *now* they will often offer you an anti-depressant when they find out you're only a housewife.

[ma23peas]

Regarding the valium comment, dh says that it was extremely common in the 1950s for housewives to be prescribed valium. This is part of history, not just speculation or snarkiness. (Dh has been an American history professor for 20 years.) He just told me more about it, and it is fascinating stuff.

 

I completely disagree with this statement, it could be valid if you said women in highly urban areas or in higher income levels...but women across the board? I believe there are more women taking sleep medications, stimulants, depressants, mood drugs now than in any generation...in the 50's you just didn't have that many women who could afford drugs...they were focused on putting food on the table. Plus, Valium wasn't approved for marketing or even available until 1963...so doubt it was prescribed in the 50's... me was a pharmaceutical rep for 10 years...

 

Tara

[mommaduck]

If you go to the doctor *now* they will often offer you an anti-depressant when they find out you're only a housewife.

Oh goodness, the doctor in the area I was in (mentioned in previous post...mennonite community, NOT in PA), I saw him ONCE because my doctor was unavailable. Biggest quack, I nearly ran out of there! I had terrible migranes and I believe vertigo. He tried to prescribe me a high dose muscle relaxer (two pills...I took half a pill and was flat on my back, didn't do that again...my dr later told me the two pills could have killed me at my weight) and PROZAC. "you'll thank me for the prozac...I give all my females patients prozac...it makes them feel good...you'll thank me!" (that was one script I never filled)

[Mrs Mungo]

and PROZAC. "you'll thank me for the prozac...I give all my females patients prozac...it makes them feel good...you'll thank me!" (that was one script I never filled)

 

Good grief!!

[Parrothead]

Regarding the valium comment, dh says that it was extremely common in the 1950s for housewives to be prescribed valium. This is part of history, not just speculation or snarkiness. (Dh has been an American history professor for 20 years.) He just told me more about it, and it is fascinating stuff.

I thought everyone knew what "mother's little helper" is. The Rolling Stones even sang a song about it. Mother's Little Helper scroll down a bit.

 

Or maybe I'm just showing my age.

[Parrothead]

"you'll thank me for the prozac...I give all my females patients prozac...it makes them feel good...you'll thank me!" (that was one script I never filled)

Makes you wonder if any of his patients other than you questioned the script or if they happily requested more.

[Mrs Mungo]

I thought everyone knew what "mother's little helper" is. The Rolling Stones even sang a song about it. Mother's Little Helper scroll down a bit.

 

Or maybe I'm just showing my age.

 

I knew what it was referring to, it's mentioned in a few other songs too. Maybe we just listen to the same music? ;)

[Parrothead]

I knew what it was referring to, it's mentioned in a few other songs too. Maybe we just listen to the same music? ;)

Aye! I believe we have many of the same tastes.

[tristangrace]

It's been interesting for me to note how many of my peers (I'm 40) who have learned to cook well and/or to sew well in recent years comment on how "empowering" it feels to do those things well.

 

It's ironic to note that while it can be liberating to not have to acquire domestic skills, it's also liberating to acquire them. To be unable to cook or clean or sew or build houses or fix cars or program computers, etc., is to be dependent on others to do those things for you. Some folks feel powerful when they can pay other people to do "menial" tasks so they don't have to do it themselves, and that is a certain type of power, for sure. But the inability to preform basic necessary tasks well is NOT liberating.

 

Repeating my own earlier comments on this thread--it feels good to be competent. A woman who takes pride in her ability to prepare good meals and serve them gracefully shouldn't be sneered at or labeled as "subservient"--it's an admirable competency.

[EmmaNZ]

Goodness, I went to sleep and look what happened!!

 

I will admit that I have not read every single response, but here's a few replies to the general gist of the comments:

 

- just because I choose to serve my husband does not mean that I am 'subserviant'. I look after him yes, but I am also looked after.

- I am not of lesser worth in this family than my husband. I see it that we are 'equal but different'.

- I think the main point here is choice. This is something I choose to do because it makes me feel fulfilled. If others do not like to live like this then I am all for whatever makes you happy.

- and as for the 'educated conversation' comment!! I consider myself very well educated (I am a doctor), but I choose to use that brain power to teach my children - I think that's amazing.

[pdalley]

If you go to the doctor *now* they will often offer you an anti-depressant when they find out you're only a housewife.

 

Gosh yes. The second thing they ALWAYS tell me is that I have too much stress. Stress is a part of life. I have three very unique kids with different special needs. Stress is part of the deal. DH shares it as much as he can. I finally snarkily told one Dr who would. not. shut. up. about it to tell me which of my kids she thought I should sell. She shut up about it after that.

 

I am less stressed right now than any time in my life. When the boys were in p.s. my blood pressure would shoot right through the roof when I saw the school on the caller ID.

 

And Prozac? Some quack gave it to me when it first came out. I was hypomanic for three days and man was my house clean. Too bad I was single at the time.:lol:

[Rosie_0801]

I completely disagree with this statement, it could be valid if you said women in highly urban areas or in higher income levels...but women across the board? I believe there are more women taking sleep medications, stimulants, depressants, mood drugs now than in any generation...in the 50's you just didn't have that many women who could afford drugs...they were focused on putting food on the table. Plus, Valium wasn't approved for marketing or even available until 1963...so doubt it was prescribed in the 50's... me was a pharmaceutical rep for 10 years...

 

Since we're talking about history, before the Valium they were swigging cough syrup for the alcohol or codeine. Disclaimer: I am talking about the women who were swigging cough syrup for the alcohol or codeine, not the women who weren't. Fwiw, my mother and grandmother also subscribed to my drug of choice, sugar. Well, my mother is on anti-depressants too.

 

 

I wonder how many times it will need to be explained that no one thinks badly of a woman who wants to serve her husband.:banghead: What's bad is the ones serving their husbands because they have no choice, him being a domineering so and so who'll preach brimstone at her if she has a bad day, or cut off her allowance so she'll have to beg him if she wants a haircut, or something.

 

"That's not for me!" doesn't automatically translate into "If you do that, you suck" and this really shouldn't have to come up on every thread on this board.

 

And what's with the Prozac being handed out like lollipops? Geez. Is life itself now considered an illness?

 

Rosie

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think the 1950s have reached a legendary status (either good or bad).

 

Sometimes I wonder if we're so disconnected from our grandparents that we don't know what it was like? I've visited with both my grandmothers many times and there were things they liked and didn't like about that time. They both stress that it was a learning time, knowing what society expected of them and finding what worked for them.

 

I have one grandmother who 'served' her husband and children. She considered it a small part of the freedom she had the rest of her day. Freedom to learn, and make friends, work, and do things inside and outside of the house. She said my grandfather had to serve his customers part of the day. His day was not totally his own...no one's is.

 

My other grandmother had a workaholic husband she rarely saw. The television image just wasn't here for her.

 

I see the same thing played out in my mother's life (starting at society's expectations and learning from there) and in my own life. I have several aunts that made it through the sexual revolution and still aren't happy with their relationships. I really don't see much of a difference--other then that society is constantly changing and therefore our expectations change.

 

People expect me to use my expensive degree and get a job. People expect us to own a house, have our children in several activities, public school, pay for their college educations, dress well, have a clean house, make healthy meals, own 2 cars, go on vacations, not have long hair after 30, shave my legs every day, make a big deal out of Christmas, blahblahblah.

 

We make fun of an era we don't even understand outside of television and movies. We do that because it makes us feel better about our own lives and the way we give in to society's dictates.

 

Nice post. :)

[mommaduck]

Makes you wonder if any of his patients other than you questioned the script or if they happily requested more.

In that area, specifically that community, they didn't question anything a doctor told them. I knew some ladies that kept anti-depressants in the cabinet and would only take one "if I have a bad day". It's obvious they did not understand how it worked. Another doctor in that area told my FIL that he basically considered himself a god. My FIL demanded another doctor for my MIL's surgery.

[mommaduck]

And Prozac? Some quack gave it to me when it first came out. I was hypomanic for three days and man was my house clean. Too bad I was single at the time.:lol:

:lol:

[astrid]

Radical feminists, not all feminists. Certainly not this one. ;)

 

Nor this one. The Anti-Christ? Pretty strong language.

 

astrid

[sheryl]

Just read the serving food to your husband thread and the 1950's wife statement intrigued me! I have to say that I think I am a bit of a 1950's wife - or at least I try to be!! I really do take pride in serving my husband in all the ways that I can - making things easy for him, cooking food that he likes, not stressing him out when he gets home from work etc etc.

 

He helps me out with my stuff as well, and there is lots of give and take, but in our house he is the leader and he is treated and respected as such. Part of my satisfaction as a wife comes from looking after my husband well.

 

Am I alone in this? Or have I read too much into this?!

 

Good for ya.... :iagree: Sheryl <><

[PiCO]

I don't feel like scrolling through this whole thread to find the comment, but I wanted to respond to the responses.

 

I can't accuse the poster of this comment of over-generalizing, because I have noticed the same thing- when I talk to your average stay at home moms, I find that educated, stimulating conversations are rare. Good interesting conversations are much more common with working mothers.

 

Homeschool moms, on the other hand, I find are usually interested in having a stimulating, educated conversation. Maybe they're just starved for adult interaction, or maybe I am just interested in the same things.

[elegantlion]

I just can't help myself! I have to share this

. Enjoy! (Uh, if you're not familiar with MST3K, parental guidance suggested.)

 

Wendi

 

Hilarious! thank you!

 

I don't feel like scrolling through this whole thread to find the comment, but I wanted to respond to the responses.

 

I can't accuse the poster of this comment of over-generalizing, because I have noticed the same thing- when I talk to your average stay at home moms, I find that educated, stimulating conversations are rare. Good interesting conversations are much more common with working mothers.

 

Homeschool moms, on the other hand, I find are usually interested in having a stimulating, educated conversation. Maybe they're just starved for adult interaction, or maybe I am just interested in the same things.

 

Maybe it's the valium. :tongue_smilie:

 

Seriously, I think there is a mommy fog sometimes. I stayed home before we homeschooled and I spent so much time discussing toddler things and trains and crashing Hot Wheels. Discussing something like Goodnight Moon with an adult would have been like doing intense literary analysis at that point.

[Audrey]

In that area, specifically that community, they didn't question anything a doctor told them. I knew some ladies that kept anti-depressants in the cabinet and would only take one "if I have a bad day". It's obvious they did not understand how it worked. Another doctor in that area told my FIL that he basically considered himself a god. My FIL demanded another doctor for my MIL's surgery.

 

 

Wow! I didn't know you had lived in my town! ;)

[Corraleno]

I wonder how many times it will need to be explained that no one thinks badly of a woman who wants to serve her husband.:banghead: What's bad is the ones serving their husbands because they have no choice, him being a domineering so and so who'll preach brimstone at her if she has a bad day, or cut off her allowance so she'll have to beg him if she wants a haircut, or something.

 

"That's not for me!" doesn't automatically translate into "If you do that, you suck" and this really shouldn't have to come up on every thread on this board.

Rosie

 

Go Rosie! :hurray:

 

Jackie

[ThatCyndiGirl]

It seems like those who romanticize the 1950's are invariably part of the Privileged, White (most likely Protestant since weren't Catholics still considered to be poor white Irish trash?) part of society. I just NEVER hear my AA friends pining for the Fabulous 50's.

[helena]

It seems like those who romanticize the 1950's are invariably part of the Privileged, White (most likely Protestant since weren't Catholics still considered to be poor white Irish trash?) part of society. I just NEVER hear my AA friends pining for the Fabulous 50's.

 

I haven't read through the thread yet, but I totally agree with this. :iagree:

 

My mom is Irish, my father is Mexican. The 50's were not Leave it to Beaver. I know it wasn't for most people, but racially it was rough enough to not even try to romanticize it. I'm talking about the Mexican side here.

 

For my family, what some people would call "being a 50's wife", would reflect our culture not a time period. My husband's family (who's Sicilian, Mexican, Irish) also didn't come from that "privileged" kind of thinking.

 

I do understand holding those domestic ideas highly though..

I'm so glad that I come from a more traditional background, because that type of thinking naturally meshes with me, and my hubby. If it didn't, then thank goodness, we live in a time where there's so much room for flexibility in marriages.

 

Women should support each other to find a spouse who matches their style. I don't like all of the criticism, and rolling of the eyes, if someone takes care of their spouse, or cuts all of the work up equal. There's enough room on this planet for all kinds of women. And just because I'm serving my husband dinner, and folding his socks, doesn't mean I'm a subservient ninny.

 

FWIW, I'm making lasagna in an apron right now! :D

Edited September 23, 2010 by helena

[LauraGB]

It seems like those who romanticize the 1950's are invariably part of the Privileged, White (most likely Protestant since weren't Catholics still considered to be poor white Irish trash?) part of society. I just NEVER hear my AA friends pining for the Fabulous 50's.

 

Wait, wait, wait a sec. Not necessarily so. I'm Irish. I'm Catholic. Not so into the servitude thing. From each side of the family; Dad's side was super Catholic, supreme servitude attitude going on (but French and German). Mom's side of the family; screaming Irish, Catholic, minor servitude happening. ffw to the following generation - a mixture of the two. Major irritation and annoyance going on, Irish Catholic matriarch. If she (mom) was poor white Irish trash, no one told her. (But it is my Irish mother who is still serving my French/German father, albeit grudgingly.)

[justamouse]

I just can't help myself! I have to share this

. Enjoy! (Uh, if you're not familiar with MST3K, parental guidance suggested.)

 

Wendi

 

LOVED it.

 

Nana was a 50s wife and an alcoholic. They slept in Lucy and Desi beds (two twins in the same room) and hated each other till they both died. I worshiped the ground they walked on and wish they could have had happier lives, but divorce was not an option back then (I was the only kid in my school whose parents were divorced, and that was the 70s), slow suicide by alcohol and smoking was more the thing.

 

The 50s were too dysfunctional (in all ways) to be romantic, though I love the cat eye glasses and wear killer aprons myself.

[Joker]

I've been thinking about this because my grandparents had great relationships. One thing I remember thinking was odd growing up is that my grandmas were 7 and 9 yrs older than my grandpas. Maybe their dh's had expectations that were not the norm of the times. I don't know - just my musings. I find I do try to be like one of my grandmas in many ways but I didn't see any of the things others think were prevalent with that generation.

[sagira]

I have seen posts that stated what you described: mutual service, which seems to fit "biblical guidelines" a lot better than the mentality of the 1950's stereotype. If Jesus did women's/servant work, such as in the washing of feet, I think men who follow him can follow his example as well as women who follow him--just like your husband did.

 

I really don't see a lot of "me generation" talk, just talk that service goes two ways .

 

This. I also agree with nestof3 and Peela's post way back on the 2nd page of the thread :)

 

Service goes both ways. It's not enough to just work outside the home and provide money for the family.

 

Regarding the 1950s housewife, "I" would have liked to have one lol! Just have me do the groceries, cooking, homeschooling and parenting, and you keep the house tidy, schedule, and be my sous-chef! Sounds like an excellent head housekeeper to me.. One can only dream :)

Edited September 23, 2010 by sagira

[creekland]

OK, so, I know you didn't mean it like this, but this comment could really stir up SAHM's. It implies that staying at home is dreary and that those who are satisfied with it don't 'LOVE educated conversation.' Now, don't get mad. I KNOW you didn't mean it like that. But this is the kind of thing that unconsciously brings on the anger that was mentioned upthread. That's why it's so hard to discuss.

 

 

This comment will only stir up SAHMs IF they take it to mean I think all people should be wired as I am. I really don't believe that. I believe everyone should do what they are wired to do without putting others (who are wired differently) into the same box.

 

For me, pretty much everything typically involved with being a full time SAHM IS dreary, therefore, it doesn't work for me and stresses me out. For me, and in my world, the conversations I had with other SAHMs wasn't anywhere near the same educational level I can get with my hubby, nor were they as interesting to me.

 

Those that are wired differently would be equally as stressed or bored in my life as I am/was in theirs. We really all need to fill our own niche and accept that we are all different without putting a "better" or "worse" label on anyone simply because their views are different.

 

What's really wrong is being offended because someone else isn't in the same box as an individual has chosen for their own lives. It's equally as wrong to believe all moms should be SAHMs as it is to say all should have a career outside the home.

 

For me, the middle works best. I love working part time on a regular basis.

 

And yes, on this board and off of it one can get "educated conversations" and be a SAHM. That's probably why I like this board! ;) What happens in one persons IRL circle doesn't mean people should extrapolate that to everyone, everywhere. It also doesn't change my IRL circle.

[stripe]

I like fresh food; I think the 1950s was a weird time of consumerism with all that canned food and whatnot.

 

I do think people are suspicious of helping kids and husband. The idea of getting dressed up for your husband is somehow horribly offensive, for reasons I don't quite get. The 1950s housewives in my family don't seem quite able to decide if they were blessed (didn't have to work) or cursed (husband wouldn't let them work). Interesting.

[creekland]

I wonder how many times it will need to be explained that no one thinks badly of a woman who wants to serve her husband.:banghead: What's bad is the ones serving their husbands because they have no choice, him being a domineering so and so who'll preach brimstone at her if she has a bad day, or cut off her allowance so she'll have to beg him if she wants a haircut, or something.

 

"That's not for me!" doesn't automatically translate into "If you do that, you suck" and this really shouldn't have to come up on every thread on this board.

 

Rosie

 

:iagree:

 

I guess I'm just not used to the way these things get translated, hence, I fell into the trap of starting it by saying, "it's not me." Even though I added the "to each our own," and FIRMLY believe it, people miss (or overlook) the last part - or maybe assume it isn't true. I'll refrain from posting on these types of posts in the future. Life's way too short for them! :tongue_smilie:

[creekland]

I can't accuse the poster of this comment of over-generalizing, because I have noticed the same thing- when I talk to your average stay at home moms, I find that educated, stimulating conversations are rare. Good interesting conversations are much more common with working mothers.

 

Homeschool moms, on the other hand, I find are usually interested in having a stimulating, educated conversation. Maybe they're just starved for adult interaction, or maybe I am just interested in the same things.

 

Very good distinction and one I hadn't put together before. Yes, the conversations I truly enjoy with SAHMs come from homeschooling moms (I can think of 2). Those I avoid aren't (I can think of several). It again matches why I like this board too...

[RoughCollie]

The 1950s housewives in my family don't seem quite able to decide if they were blessed (didn't have to work) or cursed (husband wouldn't let them work). Interesting.

 

My Dad wouldn't let my mother or his second wife work (50s, 60s, 70s) because, he claimed, he would have to pay more taxes and it wouldn't be worth it.

 

He wouldn't pay for college for my sister and I because it would be a waste of money since we'd just get married and have kids. He didn't believe in paying for an MRS. He came around by the 2000s.

 

I was in my 20s when he let me mow one short strip of lawn. I was 50 before I mowed a lawn again. Females were not permitted to do any yard work. They also were not permitted to use tools -- that was a man's job.

 

In the 60s, my grandfather had a construction company. None of his female grandchildren were allowed to ride in his truck. That was because ladies do not ride in trucks. There were a lot of rules that started with "Ladies do not ...." It seemed terribly unfair to me.

 

Ladies of all ages were allowed to do housework, cooking, laundry, sewing, shopping, and childcare. Plenty of them did not have driver's licenses -- they didn't need them because they didn't have cars. I was 8 when my mom got her license. I was 10 when she got her first car.

 

When I was in school, the boys in the neighborhood carried our books home for us when we got off the bus. It was what boys did - and I remember this from 4th grade on. No one used backpacks then. Men carried packages, heavy or not.

 

My first husband was raised the same way: Men do all the household repairs and lawn care, they take care of the cars, they carry packages. He didn't cook because I had him busy doing all that stuff, but he does now. I played a practical joke on him one time. My car had a flat, and he took it to a service station to get it repaired and filled with air. While he was gone, I put the spare on (spares were regular tires). He was mighty puzzled when he came back, wondering how that tire got changed without him. It did not cross his mine that I had done it.

Edited September 23, 2010 by RoughCollie

[angela in ohio]

It's funny, because the SAHMs I know are the only ones able to have an intelligent conversations (granted many are homeschoolers, but not all.) All the working moms I know (not counting the homeschoolers who work outside the home also) just want to talk about shopping and Twilight movies and who hates who in their office. If they're reading, it's romance novels (nothing wrong with that, but it's hard to discuss like a great book.) The SAHMs know politics and history and the arts and books worth discussing.

 

I know if I lived in a more metropolitan area, there might be different type of working mom, so that might make a difference.

[ma23peas]

It seems like those who romanticize the 1950's are invariably part of the Privileged, White (most likely Protestant since weren't Catholics still considered to be poor white Irish trash?) part of society. I just NEVER hear my AA friends pining for the Fabulous 50's.

 

Maybe it's a regional thing....but in the deep south, not the case..my grandparents were not alone..

 

My grandfather never made more than 3-5k a year, if he made that...he paid for his land with money he made serving in WW2 for 4 years..he did not see my father until he was 3.5 years old (serving in the Phillipines, training in CA etc.) my grandmother had to care for her only child by herself and relied on all her cousins, uncles, aunts to help her start a garden and feed themselves...my grandmother worked as a sharecropper in the cotton fields and would take my father with her as she toiled 12 hours a day picking cotton and putting it in a bag...

My father was the first to go to college, paying his way with the money from 2 pigs he sold at the state fair and working jobs...

The key difference is that my parents came from a long line of love..my mother's family came from the same socio economic group my Dad's did....but they knew love, community, faith....seeing many of the responses here..it seems that invariably, that is the underlying factor not privileged white...my grandparents were white but privileged only in their faith and the love they had for one another.

 

Tara

[creekland]

I know if I lived in a more metropolitan area, there might be different type of working mom, so that might make a difference.

 

We live semi-rural, so I'm not sure metro vs rural matters as much as what type of job the working moms have. My working circle is full of teachers (I sub in the local public high school). When I worked in a grocery store the conversation was totally different (and not as fulfilling to me, but the job was money).

[Nestof3]

It's not offensive, but I don't like being dressy when I am cooking, cleaning, and sitting on the sofa with my boys both leaning on me. I also water stuff outside and deal with compost. I don't want to be dressed up for any of these things.

 

I have come to a point where I value my own comfort and don't feel like I should stress about keeping him visually happy all the time. I always wear makeup after my shower (which I take daily), and my hair always looks pretty nice (it's naturally curly and I don't have to do anything to it for it to look nice).

 

I've heard the argument, "But he's been around attractive women who are dressed up all day long." And my reply, "Yes, women who are most likely slipping on jeans or workout pants when they get home -- because it's more comfortable." (In my case, my husband isn't around other women -- he mows lawns -- but it's just a point I am trying to make).

 

I don't think you have to look horrible because you stay at home, but you should have the freedom to be able to be comfortable -- to be yourself. My husband doesn't wear a dress shirt at home. ;)

 

I will dress up when going out with him.

 

I do think people are suspicious of helping kids and husband. The idea of getting dressed up for your husband is somehow horribly offensive, for reasons I don't quite get. The 1950s housewives in my family don't seem quite able to decide if they were blessed (didn't have to work) or cursed (husband wouldn't let them work). Interesting.

[stripe]

It's not offensive, but I don't like being dressy when I am cooking, cleaning, and sitting on the sofa with my boys both leaning on me. I also water stuff outside and deal with compost. I don't want to be dressed up for any of these things.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean the "wear pearls when he walks in the door from work" line, or, wear a frock when scrubbing the toilet, I meant that there are some people who seem to be fundamentally opposed to dressing up for their husbands (or for other people dressing up for theirs, I am not really sure).

 

I mean also that the idea of doing something FOR someone else (including kids!) offends some people. I think that is troublesome. It is easy to just use someone, and consider a relationship ONLY in terms of what I can get out of you right now; when that ends, our relationship ends.

[Impish]

Since we're talking about history, before the Valium they were swigging cough syrup for the alcohol or codeine. Disclaimer: I am talking about the women who were swigging cough syrup for the alcohol or codeine, not the women who weren't. Fwiw, my mother and grandmother also subscribed to my drug of choice, sugar. Well, my mother is on anti-depressants too.

 

 

I wonder how many times it will need to be explained that no one thinks badly of a woman who wants to serve her husband.:banghead: What's bad is the ones serving their husbands because they have no choice, him being a domineering so and so who'll preach brimstone at her if she has a bad day, or cut off her allowance so she'll have to beg him if she wants a haircut, or something.

 

"That's not for me!" doesn't automatically translate into "If you do that, you suck" and this really shouldn't have to come up on every thread on this board.

 

And what's with the Prozac being handed out like lollipops? Geez. Is life itself now considered an illness?

 

Rosie

Once again, I love me some Rosie :001_wub:

Sorry, I didn't mean the "wear pearls when he walks in the door from work" line, or, wear a frock when scrubbing the toilet, I meant that there are some people who seem to be fundamentally opposed to dressing up for their husbands (or for other people dressing up for theirs, I am not really sure).

 

I mean also that the idea of doing something FOR someone else (including kids!) offends some people. I think that is troublesome. It is easy to just use someone, and consider a relationship ONLY in terms of what I can get out of you right now; when that ends, our relationship ends.

:iagree:

[Carol in Cal.]

This comment will only stir up SAHMs IF they take it to mean I think all people should be wired as I am. I really don't believe that. I believe everyone should do what they are wired to do without putting others (who are wired differently) into the same box.

 

For me, pretty much everything typically involved with being a full time SAHM IS dreary, therefore, it doesn't work for me and stresses me out. For me, and in my world, the conversations I had with other SAHMs wasn't anywhere near the same educational level I can get with my hubby, nor were they as interesting to me.

 

Those that are wired differently would be equally as stressed or bored in my life as I am/was in theirs. We really all need to fill our own niche and accept that we are all different without putting a "better" or "worse" label on anyone simply because their views are different.

 

What's really wrong is being offended because someone else isn't in the same box as an individual has chosen for their own lives. It's equally as wrong to believe all moms should be SAHMs as it is to say all should have a career outside the home.

 

For me, the middle works best. I love working part time on a regular basis.

 

And yes, on this board and off of it one can get "educated conversations" and be a SAHM. That's probably why I like this board! ;) What happens in one persons IRL circle doesn't mean people should extrapolate that to everyone, everywhere. It also doesn't change my IRL circle.

 

OK, I'm going to try to set an example here of what I mean.

 

The middle ground is the worst of all possible worlds. It ties you to an employer and a specific external schedule, and thus ensures that you can never relax into being home. But it stops you from doing a thorough job of homeschooling or anything associated with a traditional homelife by being so time consuming. You COULD have an intelligent conversation, but you DON'T because you are simply so busy. Duty rules your life all the time, and pleasure is elusive and hard to justify the time spent. It's the worst. Either work or don't work, but don't try to straddle. It just doesn't work.

[creekland]

OK, I'm going to try to set an example here of what I mean.

 

The middle ground is the worst of all possible worlds. It ties you to an employer and a specific external schedule, and thus ensures that you can never relax into being home. But it stops you from doing a thorough job of homeschooling or anything associated with a traditional homelife by being so time consuming. You COULD have an intelligent conversation, but you DON'T because you are simply so busy. Duty rules your life all the time, and pleasure is elusive and hard to justify the time spent. It's the worst. Either work or don't work, but don't try to straddle. It just doesn't work.

 

Then I would HIGHLY suggest you not get a part time job as it certainly wouldn't be the right fit for you. ;)

 

Enjoy!

 

Your thoughts aren't the least offensive to me as I know we're simply wired differently and I'm ok with that. I see absolutely nothing wrong with your assessment (above) as I can understand your reasoning for having it even if I don't share it. I see no reason you SHOULDN'T share it either. I'm certain there are others wired similarly to you that would add an :iagree: with it. If someone is contemplating getting a part time job they OUGHT to consider the feelings it could create for people. Then they can better assess if it's right for them or not. It sure beats telling everyone they need to fit into round hole A or square hole B. It also beats saying nothing and letting everyone "figure it out for themselves" because we're too worried that someone might be offended by our views.

 

I like hearing all thoughts, then figuring out my views for myself. This even includes your post explaining why you think people might be offended. I don't share your views though. I think people who are offended by those who state their personal views are too thin-skinned. But then again, I work in a public school so I'm very used to hearing all sorts of views from all sorts of people (even those that hate homeschooling) and I've yet to be offended by anyone. It's very difficult to offend me and I like it that way. It sure makes conversation much more enjoyable all around!

[MomOfOneFunOne]

Fwiw, my mother and grandmother also subscribed to my drug of choice, sugar.

 

I'm a sugar head!

 

 

"That's not for me!" doesn't automatically translate into "If you do that, you suck" and this really shouldn't have to come up on every thread on this board.

 

Amen!

 

 

Rosie

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