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I think I'm going to be having the discussion I've been dreading


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My parents came to meet the baby this weekend. They are leaving tomorrow, but before they do, they want to check out the private school that we cannot afford. I already told them there was no chance of DD going to the public school, so they backed off on visiting that school. They are really hoping that my oldest DD will to go to school. The decision has already been made by DH and I, and I doubt anything they say will change that. They are very good about keeping their opinions to themselves; they usually say their piece and let it go. Sometimes their perspective helps change my opinion on the topic, and other times I remain the same about whatever the issue is. They are good parents and even better grandparents, and I know that this is not about me, but about their concern for my DD's socialization. If I have to have this discussion, I want to be able to confidently give my reasons for homeschooling DD, as well as to be able to politely debate and discredit their misconceptions about homeschooling. I love my mom and dad, but I struggle with standing up for myself and honoring them at the same time. Our values are sometimes very different, and in those cases, I just do what I think is right and deal with them later. I can't keep doing this for the rest of my life. It is stressful and not fair to them. How do I accomplish this?

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Are your children involved in any group activities (music class, dance, sports, church, etc)? If so, then they're being socialized.

 

Also, I don't know about you, but I don't want my children picking up some of the socialization skills I've seen from other public or private school kids. When my boys were in private school, the entire Kindergarten and First Grade class was terrorized by ONE boy. My older DS was in trouble almost every day because he's been taught to 'not start the fight, but finish it'. This bully actually CHANGED my youngest son's personality. He went from being a friendly, sweet boy, to being angry all of the time. Once I pulled them from that school, his old personality started resurfacing again.

 

My boys play ice hockey, go to Sunday school, and attend science classes once a month. They get plenty of socialization. Additionally, they learn to take turns, work as a team, and raise their hand when they know the answer to something.

 

As long as you're not hiding your kids from the outside world, they're learning social skills from the best teacher possible - YOU! :)

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As someone who is weak in the face of parental pressure, I do sympathize. There have been times I was physically ill at the thought of a conversation with my mother that I knew wasn't going to go well.

 

Is there a book that's a kind of "Good reasons to homeschool" type of book. Something that goes into statistics about homeschooled kids doing very well academically and socially? Would your parents be offended if you said something like, "I'd like to talk to you about this, but this book explains my thoughts so much better. Could you please do me a favor and read it and then we can go over anything you might have to say afterward?"

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Perhaps they know or know of hs'ed kids who are thriving as they go through the teen years. I think one of the arguments which swayed dh in favour of hs was the very high percentage of hsers amongst the kids whom he likes/can tolerate at church. I haven't heard anything negative about hsing from dh's extended family since Tim Tebow went to Florida.:D

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Perhaps they know or know of hs'ed kids who are thriving as they go through the teen years. I think one of the arguments which swayed dh in favour of hs was the very high percentage of hsers amongst the kids whom he likes/can tolerate at church. I haven't heard anything negative about hsing from dh's extended family since Tim Tebow went to Florida.:D

 

Best PR for homeschooling in a long time. :)

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I loathe the socialization question, because it presumes that there is a 'standard' of socialization we are ALL required to meet. But another false premise is that the public school, or institutional school socialization experience is representative of adult life, or somehow properly prepares a child for their future experiences.

 

Pray tell, where else does one find themselves placed in confined, compulsory surroundings with 25-30 people randomly grouped with us only because they have a birthday within about 11 months of our own? Where we answer to a set of complete strangers who may or may not be qualified, that have total authority over us, and who may hold a worldview completely contrary to our own? And where we might walk through a cyclone fence, and maybe a metal detector, and have our belongings searched randomly? etc. etc.

 

Public school is not for socialization; its stated goal is supposed to be education, and its actual goal is indoctrination into the secular humanist worldview. Private schools also indoctrinate a worldview, but at least the private school 'customer' voluntarily can select the appropriate school and worldview for their child.

 

I'm guessing you aren't looking for a battle with your folks, but I hate to see you put on the defensive by this question...maybe a more helpful comment from me would be to suggest the following answer...

 

'We will adequately socialize our children through a variety of activities that will be in harmony with our educational choices and beliefs.'

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Sometimes time is the best way to quiet our dissenters. Honestly, I would look my parents in the eye and say, "I love you, I know you care, but you've had a chance to raise your children. Now it is my turn to raise mine, thank you for your concern."

 

end.of.conversation. Then change the subject.

 

eta: I love my parents, we get along quite well. Sometimes I think we overthink how we need to respond to our family members (not necessarily directed at OP, but the rhetorical we). I think the best thing my mom ever did was acknowledge that I was an adult and could think as one. Granted the other day I did have to remind her I'm 43 and I have some life experience to back up my convictions.

Edited by elegantlion
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I have a theory about socializing, which has taken shape in my head after meeting local PS'd kids, and going to many different homeschooling groups:

 

Most kids are social. A few are very quiet and like time alone. This is a personality thing. However, when I have seen a child struggle with socializing, it is almost always a child who has had real problems in social situations before. The child who has not had problems socializing has simply not had it occur to them that social situations could be a problem.

 

My line when confronted with the question, "how will they (my kids) learn how to socialize if they don't go to school?" is "well I'm not sure that socializing is learned by copying other youngsters who also don't know how to socialize. Surely the best examples are adults, and that's pretty limited in a school environment." It's my belief that, very often, groups of kids form a pecking order, and those who are weak tend to get picked on. If that's going to happen around my kids, I want to be available to talk with them about it!

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Honestly, I think it would be better to NOT answer them. I would tell them that I appreciate their concern and love for us and their grandchildren. And I would tell them "we will be making the decisions we believe are best. We'll continue to re-evaluate those decisions. But they are ours to make and not up for discussion. Again, thanks so much for loving and respecting all of us." Then I'd "notice" something else whether it was a butterfly or mentioning something that was on the news this morning or whatever.

 

ETA: there is NO way I would DREAM of looking at that private school with them. That is inviting trouble.

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I struggle with standing up for myself and honoring them at the same time.

 

Honoring your parents does not mean caving to their wishes when you've already decided.

 

It's truly ok for them to be disappointed in your choices. You are an adult now, and you don't need permission to make informed decisions about your own life and that of your family.

 

Just the idea of them checking out the local private school goes above and beyond concerned grandparents to my mind. I find it a bit over the top and would be shocked if someone in my family did that to me (they wouldn't).

Edited by Snickerdoodle
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Are your children involved in any group activities (music class, dance, sports, church, etc)? If so, then they're being socialized.

 

Also, I don't know about you, but I don't want my children picking up some of the socialization skills I've seen from other public or private school kids. When my boys were in private school, the entire Kindergarten and First Grade class was terrorized by ONE boy. My older DS was in trouble almost every day because he's been taught to 'not start the fight, but finish it'. This bully actually CHANGED my youngest son's personality. He went from being a friendly, sweet boy, to being angry all of the time. Once I pulled them from that school, his old personality started resurfacing again.

 

My boys play ice hockey, go to Sunday school, and attend science classes once a month. They get plenty of socialization. Additionally, they learn to take turns, work as a team, and raise their hand when they know the answer to something.

 

As long as you're not hiding your kids from the outside world, they're learning social skills from the best teacher possible - YOU! :)

 

I'm glad your son is showing his true personality. I've seen it in my girls too. When they went back to PS, they treated each other very badly. I think a lot of it was being exhausted from being in school all day, coming home with a ton of homework, and having to wake up early the next day and do it all over again. It is more relaxed at home, and my girls all get along much better, though they do sometimes argue.

 

My girls participate in sports, and this year we're joining a HS support group, which hosts lots of activities. I also would like to outsource subjects like art and PE as much as possible. Both my parents and I agree that the behavior of most children in public school, especially middle school, is not what we want my DD to learn. My mom has said that she worries about my DD being an outcast when she does enter high school. (We are about 80% sure she'll go to a traditional high school, whether public or private). She also says that the span of maturity between my DD and the school kids will increase each year, therefore leaving her no one to relate to. I don't think the solution is for my DD to join them. I just have to find a way to express that to her so she understands where I'm coming from. My mom is a high school counselor, and she says that high school girls can be very mean to each other. She tells me this to scare me into sending DD (so she won't be bullied), but it makes me want to keep her out of school even more. Also, my DD is very social, and makes friends very easily. She is usually very popular among her friends, and gets along with most kids. I don't think she'll be an outcast when she does re-enter the "system," at least I hope not.

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As someone who is weak in the face of parental pressure, I do sympathize. There have been times I was physically ill at the thought of a conversation with my mother that I knew wasn't going to go well.

 

Is there a book that's a kind of "Good reasons to homeschool" type of book. Something that goes into statistics about homeschooled kids doing very well academically and socially? Would your parents be offended if you said something like, "I'd like to talk to you about this, but this book explains my thoughts so much better. Could you please do me a favor and read it and then we can go over anything you might have to say afterward?"

 

I don't know of any such book, but I do think I can maybe write my own little essay on our reasons for homeschooling DD, and support it with facts. My reasons are not typical reasons of other homeschoolers, except for the not wanting to expose her to oversexualized peers reason. You've given me something to try. And thanks for the sympathy. It's nice to know there is someone out there who knows how I feel.

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I think, "You raised me to be the adult I am. Have faith in the person *you* raised to do whats best for her children." is a pretty good answer.

 

My parents aren't an issue w/hsing. MIL has/can be, but Wolf tends to be very abrupt w/her when she goes on, telling her she was being informed, not looking for her consent.

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I loathe the socialization question, because it presumes that there is a 'standard' of socialization we are ALL required to meet. But another false premise is that the public school, or institutional school socialization experience is representative of adult life, or somehow properly prepares a child for their future experiences.

 

Pray tell, where else does one find themselves placed in confined, compulsory surroundings with 25-30 people randomly grouped with us only because they have a birthday within about 11 months of our own? Where we answer to a set of complete strangers who may or may not be qualified, that have total authority over us, and who may hold a worldview completely contrary to our own? And where we might walk through a cyclone fence, and maybe a metal detector, and have our belongings searched randomly? etc. etc.

 

Public school is not for socialization; its stated goal is supposed to be education, and its actual goal is indoctrination into the secular humanist worldview. Private schools also indoctrinate a worldview, but at least the private school 'customer' voluntarily can select the appropriate school and worldview for their child.

 

I'm guessing you aren't looking for a battle with your folks, but I hate to see you put on the defensive by this question...maybe a more helpful comment from me would be to suggest the following answer...

 

'We will adequately socialize our children through a variety of activities that will be in harmony with our educational choices and beliefs.'

 

I don't necessarily agree with everything you wrote, but the part I bolded is beautifully said. I wish that were enough to satisfy my parents. Actually, I do agree with what you wrote, though I really dislike the word "indoctrinate." I don't know if we'd agree whether such indoctrination is a good thing or a bad thing, but that is another discussion to be had on another thread.

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Why in the world is a kid's job to socialize a kid? I always joke that kids are basically savages and it's our job to civilize them. When you throw a bunch of savages into a room together, you're expecting savages to civilize each other and it's not realistic. ;)

 

Kids should be socialized by adults, not other children. Yes, a child socialized in this manner will be "different". In a good way.

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I think, "You raised me to be the adult I am. Have faith in the person *you* raised to do whats best for her children." is a pretty good answer.

 

My parents aren't an issue w/hsing. MIL has/can be, but Wolf tends to be very abrupt w/her when she goes on, telling her she was being informed, not looking for her consent.

 

Excellent answer. BTW, I love the way your DH handles his mom. It reminds me of my grandmother. She would tell us, "I'm not asking you to ..., I'm telling you." This was in response to us telling her we didn't want to do something. There was no way to argue with her.

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I feel your pain! Went through the same things with my parents, and to an extent my husband's father. As I explained to them, I'd rather have my kids socialized by wild chimps than some of those kids I've seen in PS.

 

Plus, I believe in selective socialization, not just random kids thrown together. THAT is a recipe for trouble in many instances. That said, we do gymnastics, soccer, church, and are joining a homeschool group. They see other kids all the time and are learning how to respond and relate. There's no need to do that at school.

 

Keep us posted!

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Excellent answer. BTW, I love the way your DH handles his mom. It reminds me of my grandmother. She would tell us, "I'm not asking you to ..., I'm telling you." This was in response to us telling her we didn't want to do something. There was no way to argue with her.

I tell my kids that :lol:

 

When she (MIL) found out we were expecting Princess, she was mad. God had told her we weren't to have anymore children, but to adopt. I found myself telling her that I guessed God had changed His mind and forgot to tell her.

 

Honestly, some of the conversations we have had wouldn't be believed in a work of fiction!

Edited by Impish
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I don't necessarily agree with everything you wrote, but the part I bolded is beautifully said. I wish that were enough to satisfy my parents. Actually, I do agree with what you wrote, though I really dislike the word "indoctrinate." I don't know if we'd agree whether such indoctrination is a good thing or a bad thing, but that is another discussion to be had on another thread.

 

in·doc·tri·nate (ibreve.gifn-dobreve.gifkprime.giftrschwa.gif-namacr.giftlprime.gif) tr.v. in·doc·tri·nat·ed, in·doc·tri·nat·ing, in·doc·tri·nates 1. To instruct in a body of doctrine or principles.

2. To imbue with a partisan or ideological point of view: a generation of children who had been indoctrinated against the values of their parents.

 

in·doclprime.giftri·naprime.giftion n.

 

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

 

Agreed, another thread...Let me just clarify that I don't use the word here as a pejorative. I simply mean that whoever educates our children, (parent-led home education, private Christian school, private secular school, private Jewish school, Islamic school, public school) indoctrinates them. It happens by default. Whether you feel that is okay or not depends on whether the indoctrination is in harmony with your own 'doctrine,' or your own world view.

 

You have a tough task...it's hard sometimes with our adult/elderly parents not quite 'getting' what we do...remember, IMHO you are not obligated to 'satisfy' them with your answer. Wishing you a good outcome...

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It's OK to tell them that you love and respect them, but must respectfully disagree with their opinion on whether your dd needs to go to school. You and your dh have made the decision to homeschool her, and that's all they need to know. The hardest part is maintaining composure and speaking calmly, at least for me.

 

I'm very close to my parents, but they are not supportive of homeschooling. My mom tries - I can tell every time she's biting her tongue when she wants to tell me to send them to school. :D I just don't say anything to my dad about homeschooling anymore. He likes to pick fights about it, which is ridiculous.

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What does honouring your parents mean to you? Isnt it just about being kind and respectful...as we would hope to be generally speaking? It isnt, surely, about caving into their beliefs and opinions, or 'obeying' them.

How about honouring yourself, your husband, your own intelligence and your own goals in wanting what is best for your kids?

If our goals as parents and adults are different, even subtly, to our parents' goals in child rearing, we can't hope to be in alignment with them all the time.

I agree with those who say not to worry about convincing them...just thank them for their concern, tell them what you are doing, and don't be defensive and justify yourself. You have no need to.

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Note: I use religious language because I sense that you are religious. If you aren't, just know that's where I am coming from, personally, and what I believe is what factors into my decision making, etc. If you aren't religious, though, please just be gracious and read through the jargon to get to my point. I do have a point. Thanks! ;)

 

As far as honoring your parents goes, you are doing them great honor by telling them what you have decided and respectfully hearing/ answering their complaints or questions.

 

In my opinion, now that your are an adult and presumably married and obviously have children, you need only "answer" to your husband. If you are single parent and your parents are your "partners," then that chances things a little... but not much because you still have the real responsibility in raising your kids.

 

But, if you are married with kids, in my opinion, your husband is the only one you have to make your life work with, if you know what I mean. He is the one you must compromise with, even if he is not a believer, etc. Otherwise, you may be put into the impossible situation of having to do what your parents say over what your husband wants for you and your kids... that is a recipe for disaster, absolutely, and you were never intended to "submit" to both your husband and your mom and dad. I believe that whatever you and your husband decide for your children is "sovereign" for them. When we leave home and marry, we are suppose to "cleave" unto our husbands, etc. and the obligation to obey our parents as before no longer exists...We are one flesh with our husbands, etc. etc. etc.

 

I certainly would not ignore your parent's or their concerns or treat them lightly or disrespectfully, as you only benefit from their wise counsel, but I believe you are free to go forward with whatever you decide even if they do not agree, even if they disagree wholeheartedly.

 

"As far as it is possible, as much as it depends upon you, live at peace with all men."

 

God bless and God grant you grace and strength when you deal with them. :001_smile: Will your husband be sitting with you at the table when you talk to them?

Edited by VBoulden
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Honoring your parents does not mean caving to their wishes when you've already decided.

 

It's truly ok for them to be disappointed in your choices. You are an adult now, and you don't need permission to make informed decisions about your own life and that of your family.

 

Just the idea of them checking out the local private school goes above and beyond concerned grandparents to my mind. I find it a bit over the top and would be shocked if someone in my family did that to me (they wouldn't).

 

:iagree: You completely lost me when you said they want to go check out a school. That's way over the boundary line. You can honor your parents without allowing them to push you around... just politely say "no thanks". No thanks to the school visit, no thanks to their advice, no thanks to them thinking they have any place in this decision process!

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