Science Question

[mjpeter]

I'm new here...a first year homeschooling mom, and I'm driving myself crazy trying to pick science curriculum for my older two sons. My youngest is doing Exploring Creation Through Astronomy, and for the last two weeks, my older sons have been listening in. My original intent was to let them do this and Anatomy the first year, and then move them up together next year to General Science. I figured that they are only a year and a half apart, and it would be nice to have a lab partner.

 

The problem is that they seem bored. In actuality, they are both quite advanced with science and math, so that may be a possibility. Should I wait it out or move them together, or just move one? They are 12 (just turned 12) and 10.

 

I'm also confused about Apologia vs BJU for High School. I've decided firmly on Apologia for the elementary level, but I've heard a lot of people say that they think that BJU is a bit more rigorous. They like to push themselves at science, (just not language arts and Latin :001_smile:) My worry about BJU is that it may be too teacher-intensive for me, since I do have three children. Would the DVDs take the pressure off? My husband is an engineer, so he could handle some of the teaching, if needed, but he does work full-time.

 

So, would you move them up together, and would you go Apologia or BJU? Abeka? (Haven't looked into that one as much) Which level? Everything else came so easily, but this has been driving me nuts since they want to go into science related fields.

 

Thanks!

Edited September 2, 2010 by mjpeter

[mjpeter]

Anybody? :001_smile:

[Mom22ns]

I think BJU is much more rigorous, but if you search this board, you will find that is a common argument. If you like BJU most people need the DVDs at the high school level. They would make it very easy for you.

 

I don't use Apologia, ever, so I can't comment on the rest.

[Melissa B]

If you want a one year program before going into BJU or Apologia or ??? that would work with your other child's science, my dds 12 and 10 are working through Signs and Seasons (Astronomy) and are enjoying it. The book says 13 and up or younger with parental supervision. But, my girls aren't having any trouble with it and I'm not doing much supervising.

 

http://www.classicalastronomy.com/On_line_Ordering.asp

Edited September 2, 2010 by Melissa B

[elegantlion]

Are you looking at a strictly christian based science? There are many options available besides the three you listed.

 

Rainbow Science

Answers in Genesis materials

Exploring the world of ________(by John Tiner) Several different books, no experiments, but you could supplement with Jan VanCleave experiment books.

 

 

Rainbow Resource offers a variety of christian/secular science materials

 

If you are not opposed to secular science materials you could do a search here for some of the following:

 

CPO

Science Explorer

 

Those are just a few off the top of my head. I would try to find something to challenge them this year. Middle school science can be a hard choice. We've run into the same issues.

[elegantlion]

Here's another thread that might interest you as well.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209005

[mjpeter]

It doesn't matter is it's secular or Christian.

 

Thanks for the great info so far!

[Lori D.]

While I'm not familiar with the Apologia Astronomy, my understanding is that it's pretty young in presentation. Especially since your older 2 DC are advanced in math/science, my suggestion is to THIS year -- right now! -- go ahead and try out a more age-appropriate Apologia text for your older two DC:

 

- either do General Science for both

- or Physical Science for the 12yo and General Science for the 10yo

 

In addition to being much more at the right level for your DC's abilities, those two middle school Apologia textbooks are much closer in style, format and level of difficulty to the Apologia high school programs, which will give you the added bonus of getting a preview of the Apologia high school texts to see if they will connect well for your family, be rigorous enough, teacher-friendly enough, etc. (BTW -- as an aside: there are free suggested schedules for all the Apologia science books at: http://donnayoung.org/apologia/index.htm)

 

 

Some questions to help you decide what to do re: science and your older DC:

- Are the 12yo and 10yo one or two grades apart?

- Is either the 12yo or 10yo advanced or delayed in reading, writing or studying abilities?

- Do they work well together -- or are they competitive?

- If you start the 12yo and 10yo off together in science, will the 10yo be able to "keep up" with high school level work in a year or two when the 12yo does Biology in 9th grade but the 10yo is still in middle school? Or would you want to delay the 12yo doing Biology until 10th grade so both the 12yo and 10yo would both be in high school?

- Do you have a general idea of how many high school sciences your state requires, or that you want you DC to take? And what those might be? -- Starting with where you want to end up (end of 12th grade) and working backwards can help you plan what you want your DC to take and when in the middle school years.

 

Answers to these questions will play into whether or not it is in the best interest of your older 2 DC -- and for you -- to start them in the same science now, and/or be able to keep them together in science in high school or not. (Another aside: and it's not necessarily "bad" if they start off together, but you later on, in a year or two, have them doing different sciences -- homeschooling is all about flexibility and the ability to meet each student's individual needs/interests!)

 

 

Not familiar with BJU science, but I can tell you from our experience that Apologia Biology is very heavily vocabulary based, with the first half of the textbook focused on the "micro" aspects of biology -- the complicated processes that occur in the cell; types of reproduction in single-cell organisms and fungi; etc. Apologia Biology can be a real killer for a student with any reading, writing, or study skills difficulties (for example, our younger DS), and so many people delay doing ANY Biology until age 14 or 15 for their average students, and even to age 16 for students with any learning issues.

 

 

As far as the DVD aspect of BJU taking off the pressure... yeesss... DVDs *can* do that... Maybe it was just our situation, but in those middle school years and early high school years, whenever I left DC on their own with a DVD, about 75% of the time I *still* ended up having to go back and watch it to figure out how to answer the kids' questions -- and that was FAR more of a pain and took more time than if I'd just sat and watched the DVD along with them... However, other students do just fine working solo, so don't rely on what worked or didn't work for us as you make your decision! :)

 

 

Welcome! And BEST of luck in your first year of homeschooling! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Lori D.

[Pam B]

I'm new here...a first year homeschooling mom, and I'm driving myself crazy trying to pick science curriculum for my older two sons. My youngest is doing Exploring Creation Through Astronomy, and for the last two weeks, my older sons have been listening in. My original intent was to let them do this and Anatomy the first year, and then move them up together next year to General Science. I figured that they are only a year and a half apart, and it would be nice to have a lab partner.

 

The problem is that they seem bored. In actuality, they are both quite advanced with science and math, so that may be a possibility. Should I wait it out or move them together, or just move one? They are 12 (just turned 12) and 10.

 

I'm also confused about Apologia vs BJU for High School. I've decided firmly on Apologia for the elementary level, but I've heard a lot of people say that they think that BJU is a bit more rigorous. They like to push themselves at science, (just not language arts and Latin :001_smile:) My worry about BJU is that it may be too teacher-intensive for me, since I do have three children. Would the DVDs take the pressure off? My husband is an engineer, so he could handle some of the teaching, if needed, but he does work full-time.

 

So, would you move them up together, and would you go Apologia or BJU? Abeka? (Haven't looked into that one as much) Which level? Everything else came so easily, but this has been driving me nuts since they want to go into science related fields.

 

Thanks!

 

My boys are close in age as well- 11 months to be exact. ;)

 

I planned earlier this summer to have them both be doing Apologia's General Science. However, as I looked through it, I realized my youngest (11) was not ready for it. So, I told him he could just "explore" this year. I have tons of science experiment books, plus he will be doing the Science Detective book from the Critical Thinking Co.. He was ABSOLUTELY THRILLED when I told him this!!! To be able to have full (or close to) control of which experiment he would do- ALONE- It made his day!

 

Also, when I informed my older son (12), what little bro would be doing and that he would be doing- HE was THRILLED as well!

 

Even though I know they like to work together, to do something like science experiments on their own is just a grand thing for them both!

 

HTH,

[Elizabeth in WA]

It doesn't matter is it's secular or Christian.

 

Thanks for the great info so far!

 

I think you should perhaps explore further what the differences are between Christian programs teaching a young earth view such as Apologia and secular programs teaching big bang and evolutionary theory before just saying it doesn't matter. If you currently truly have no opinion on the subject then consider how each will dovetail with the expectations of standardized tests and future college science classes they may take.

[mjpeter]

I think you should perhaps explore further what the differences are between Christian programs teaching a young earth view such as Apologia and secular programs teaching big bang and evolutionary theory before just saying it doesn't matter. If you currently truly have no opinion on the subject then consider how each will dovetail with the expectations of standardized tests and future college science classes they may take.

 

My hope (being Christian) is to supplement a secular program but also make sure they are being taught secular viewpoints if they are using a Christian program. The science content is my main concern. The periodic table is the periodic table no matter what program we'd use. The only reason I had mentioned Christian based programs specifically is that those are the ones that I find the most easy to research. That's why I'm here...to see if there is something that I may be missing.

 

It is my first year, I'm not pretending to know everything, but I'm not going to throw out a curriculum or pick one based only on theology. :) Again, that's how we feel in our family.

 

One concern that you brought up that had been in my mind was whether there are colleges and universities that wouldn't give credit for an Apologia or Bob Jones class? :confused:

 

Thanks for all of the great help!

[Susan C.]

BJU high school science w/dvds (we did physics) didn't go well over here at all. I was solid in the Apologia camp, but missed the teacher (an audio class type of thing). So I went over to BJU, for about 8 weeks. I came running back to Apologia. The BJU was very teacher intensive, you don't always know what is going on on the dvds and if your kids don't tell you, you are lost. Then all of the paperwork, and the experiments (and the expensive supply list). My dd does Virtual Homeschool Group, and is doing chemistry this year. I wasn't very fond of the chemistry book when ds did it (but it was without any help from the outside). We just started chemistry, so it is too soon to tell how it will go. We were VERY happy with biology last year.

 

I have seen others on this forum using DIVE with BJU but I don't have any experience with it.

 

Dd and I really enjoyed BJU Science 6, we did it without the dvds. Also, ds did Space and Earth Science (w/o dvds), and liked it.

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm not speaking from experience as I only have one, but I would move them both to the Apologia General Science. It would make it a lot more fun for them to be working together, and you'll know soon enough if it's the right program for both of them. I doubt either of them will have a problem. We've done Apologia Physical Science and are now doing Physics. Both texts explain everything in detail well enough that my input is very minimal. I can't compare it to other texts like BJU because this is the only one we've used. If it's not rigorous enough, then do a chapter a week, and work through two texts in one year. For example General Science and Physical Science in one year - which I personally think would be too much - and then Biology and Advanced biology in one year. The high school texts can be done this way if a chapter is done in a week. Personally, I think the coverage in the Apologia texts is very good and the students complete a chapter and understand what they've learned.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide. :)

[Janine in Ca]

I actually contacted Dr Wile about the "colleges not accepting" Apologia ....he said that he was not aware of any students who have used his texts not being admitted based on the creation science texts. Currently, I am not aware of any transcript reporting methods that require you to list texts/publishers etc on a transcript...all you list is something like "Biology with lab" etc. Unless they change that system, you *should* be fine with it.

 

Most Christian schools teach creation science....but, I do think that we, as Christians, need to teach both sides. Continued education will most likely go the evolutionary route and it's best for students to be prepared to understand and discuss the other side...even if they don't ascribe to it.

 

Janine

[Elizabeth in WA]

As Janine said, I don't think there would be an issue over the high school credits being accepted, but rather a potential issue in the college level science courses if they were unfamiliar with the material, which may be assumed to have been covered at the high school level and therefore not be completely new to the students.

[mjpeter]

Thanks for everyone's input!!

 

We've decided to place an order for BJU Science 6. My sixth grader can obviously do it, and I think my 5th grader is up for the challenge. They can both finish by college, and I certainly think it will be rigorous enough. Plus...they can be lab partners. :001_smile:

 

Also, it's early enough to switch if it doesn't feel right.

[Guest TheBugsMom]

BJU curriculum changes after 6th. From K-6th the curriculum is teacher intensive. Then it switches. In grades 7-12 the manuals are great for giving extra info or tidbits and of course the answers to questions but they are written for classrooms. They intend for upper class students to be more independent. Student reads texts and does work then discusses the questions with you.

 

Just some info I thought to pass on.

[mjpeter]

BJU curriculum changes after 6th. From K-6th the curriculum is teacher intensive. Then it switches. In grades 7-12 the manuals are great for giving extra info or tidbits and of course the answers to questions but they are written for classrooms. They intend for upper class students to be more independent. Student reads texts and does work then discusses the questions with you.

 

Just some info I thought to pass on.

 

Thanks for the tips!

[mom31257]

Dd is using BJU Life science online this year. It's a middle school course, not high school, but she is really enjoying it. I am not making her do all the experiments yet because of money and she doesn't care for hands on stuff. I don't feel overwhelmed at all in my part. I watch the teacher tips at the beginning of each chapter. I assign due dates to some things and have to grade them. She takes her tests online, so I don't have to grade those. The teacher even gives and checks over quizzes with them during the video presentation.

 

Right now, I plan to continue using BJU through high schol. I will have her do some of the experiments at the high school level, but probably not every one of them. If a co-op situation presented itself, I would consider it.

 

From researching on here, quite a few people said that BJU was more of an AP level class, while Apologia was only AP if you did their regular and advanced years of subjects, such as Chemistry and Advanced Chemistry.

 

From what I can tell some people use Apologia's Biology and Chemistry while still in middle school. I believe that is so they can do the advanced levels in high school. This led me to think the Apologia would not be meaty enough, yet I didn't want her to have to do 2 sciences some years to get more in. Does that make sense?

[mjpeter]

Dd is using BJU Life science online this year. It's a middle school course, not high school, but she is really enjoying it. I am not making her do all the experiments yet because of money and she doesn't care for hands on stuff. I don't feel overwhelmed at all in my part. I watch the teacher tips at the beginning of each chapter. I assign due dates to some things and have to grade them. She takes her tests online, so I don't have to grade those. The teacher even gives and checks over quizzes with them during the video presentation.

 

Right now, I plan to continue using BJU through high schol. I will have her do some of the experiments at the high school level, but probably not every one of them. If a co-op situation presented itself, I would consider it.

 

From researching on here, quite a few people said that BJU was more of an AP level class, while Apologia was only AP if you did their regular and advanced years of subjects, such as Chemistry and Advanced Chemistry.

 

From what I can tell some people use Apologia's Biology and Chemistry while still in middle school. I believe that is so they can do the advanced levels in high school. This led me to think the Apologia would not be meaty enough, yet I didn't want her to have to do 2 sciences some years to get more in. Does that make sense?

 

:iagree: That's the conclusion that I came to, as well. I hope I'm making the right decision. I figure if it gets "too meaty" I'll employ my engineer husband. (I was a liberal arts major, lol)