Landmark Baptist Literature -opinions?

[Hunter]

Lori,

 

Thanks for making the call and persevering. What a shame that they don't have a better handle on what the curriculum entails.

 

I've been pondering the McGuffeys curric. (Landmark), CtGE/R&S, and CLE Reading 4. I am also smitten with PLL and ILL right now :D. I'm not sure what direction to move in. I'm also sort of happy with R&S and it works fine for my oldest. I don't want a bunch of overlap in programs. For us, less is more and I get too bogged down if there are too many programs. Big sigh.

 

If you have invested in R&S and it's working, I wouldn't switch. I'd then start there and only look for things that are covering topics not covered in R&S, like reading. What are your reading/literature goals?.

 

For me I knew I wanted a set of readers that TAUGHT vocabulary. It never even occurred to me that there might be a reader series that have a word list like McGuffey. But as enamored as I am with that word list, that certainly might not be a priority for OTHER people.

 

I think literature terms are nice, but they are not a priority. For someone else, they couldn't even imagine not having the terms be the CORE of their reading/Literature.

 

Pronunciation assistance is a big deal here. With ESL, LD, ex-prisoners, and abuse victims, lack of opportunities to have heard advanced vocabulary is a serious issue here. For other families here, they can't even imagine a world where their students would NOT be exposed to constant spoken advanced vocabulary.

 

There is no time and money to teach it all, and it all doesn't have to be taught. We just need to learn and teach OUR priorities.

[stripe]

There is no time and money to teach it all, and it all doesn't have to be taught. We just need to learn and teach OUR priorities.

 

i am so appreciative of your perspective. You're so insightful. Thank you.

[Hunter]

One of the reasons ESL students are so attracted to me is my accent. I guess it is unusual. I don't shwa. I talk like a book :-0 Elderly hard of hearing people can hear me better too. I constantly translate for people. ESL and elderly people sit next to me and just look at me every time they are confused.

 

I think also, my seriously codependent behavior that I learned as a child, makes me HIGHLY attentive and I seem to be able to sum up the situation of a struggling learner and immediately adapt. I often catch myself exhausted and dripping in sweat, because I was being so attentive and working so hard to adapt perfectly. This is all behavior I am working on STOPPING. It's not healthy for me. I don't care if people praise me for it.

 

I lose myself sometimes when teaching. I don't know how to explain it. I think even my breathing and heart rate matches up with theirs. There are no boundaries. I'm learning to hold back. It's a struggle though, because friends are NOT liking this new wall, I'm putting up.

 

And ESL people are more desperate and confrontational in a demanding way. They are driven and scared and entitled, in a way that the average LD person is not. Many of them are very bright, and want me to perform higher order thinking skills that I no longer can, especially on my bad days. They also struggle more with my stroke like word substitutions. My brain damage causes me to say the wrong words that start with the same letter. And the harder I am working, the more I do it.

 

As for my friend that THINKS she is joining the Amish, I think I can keep her here in the city. I showed her McGuffey's the cat and the rat. I explained that the Plain families have fake farms. Daddy works 2 jobs to pay for the "farm" that loses money, so the children can have chores. There is corn. And there are rats that eat the corn. And there are cats that eat the rats. This is all why McGuffey is better than Pathway HERE. I just keep flashing lesson 1 at her. "See the cat and the rat!" I told her we are keeping CGE and Study Time math, but NO MORE pathway for HER. I don't know WHO she spoke to on the phone :confused:

 

If you write curricula Lori, I'll buy it!! :-)

Edited May 19, 2012 by Hunter
too much information

[Hunter]

i am so appreciative of your perspective. You're so insightful. Thank you.

 

:blushing:

[abrightmom]

If you have invested in R&S and it's working, I wouldn't switch. I'd then start there and only look for things that are covering topics not covered in R&S, like reading. What are your reading/literature goals?.

 

There is no time and money to teach it all, and it all doesn't have to be taught. We just need to learn and teach OUR priorities.

 

Hunter,

 

Thanks for responding. :001_smile:

 

R and S is fine for my oldest. The presentation of topics is off for me. And, I didn't find the composition to be enough in Level 3 but 4 is better. It is all teacher intensive for us for the most part. But, it IS thorough and traditional, which I love.

 

My 2nd born will thrive with CtGE. He loves workbooks and learns better that way while the oldest does well with the heavy oral work in R&S. I am starting him in it. We will skip the respellings. I really do NOT like those. :001_smile:

 

I may try Landmark 2nd grade with him also. CtGE is 3 lessons a week. They might mesh well. My oldest will use CLE Reading 4, read a lot of real books, and ?? May try CtGE because I like the pace, format, and presentation of topics. He uses R&S spelling.

 

I have no idea what to use with my 6 year old. No idea at all.

[stripe]

Thanks SO much Stripe!

 

How do you all plan to handle page 26 of the primer? :-)

 

I don't know, but it's good preparation for the poem on p22-23 of vol 5:

 

The Boys by Oliver Wendell Holmes

 

Yes, we're boys,—always playing with tongue or with pen,—

And I sometimes have asked,—Shall we ever be men?

Shall we always be youthful, and laughing and gay,

Till the last dear companion drops smiling away?

[Hunter]

I can't figure out how many lessons are in grade 2 CGE. They are not numbered and there is no table of contents. Grade 3 has 170. The 3 day a week lessons, supplemented by the optional supplemental worksheets, start in grade 4.

 

I didn't realize you were having problems with R&S. That is VERY different! I haven't seen R&S English since we had the OLD grade 8 book back in the 1990s.

 

Respellings are aquired taste! :-) I have a giant old 1886 Webster dictionary that matches the McGuffey's Eclectic readers. If I could get reprints of that in a pocket edition, I would teach that happily, but...sigh! Webster has changed over the past 120 years.

[Hunter]

I don't know, but it's good preparation for the poem on p22-23 of vol 5:

 

The Boys by Oliver Wendell Holmes

 

Yes, we're boys,—always playing with tongue or with pen,—

And I sometimes have asked,—Shall we ever be men?

Shall we always be youthful, and laughing and gay,

Till the last dear companion drops smiling away?

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[lorisuewho]

I can't figure out how many lessons are in grade 2 CGE.

 

This I can answer. 170 also.

[abrightmom]

This I can answer. 170 also.

 

I see. Okay, my numbers are off then. I thought I read that they plan for 3 lessons a week. I wonder where I read that?!

[lorisuewho]

I see. Okay, my numbers are off then. I thought I read that they plan for 3 lessons a week. I wonder where I read that?!

 

I don't think it is appropriate for us to be discussing this here. Now we are going to have to tag this thread back to the CGE thread! :lol:

[abrightmom]

Lori,

 

Are you skipping the grammar in LOE? You are using CtGE and Landmark so I assume that you will skip the grammar. I'd like to run my goals by you and get your thoughts on whether or not LOE is the right choice for us and how Id integrate it without overkill. I am really in love with her book and I'm certain that of all the OG options I've tried LOE is closest to perfect. I don't really want to waste money (can't afford it) on a workbook that will go largely unused though. I think all of my kids will benefit from LOE but I can't tell whether or not I need a workbook for each one.

 

Should I PM you re: my goals for my kids or share here? It is all interrelated but this isn't specifically about Landmark although I'd like to see how each piece fits together. :001_smile:

[abrightmom]

I don't think it is appropriate for us to be discussing this here. Now we are going to have to tag this thread back to the CGE thread! :lol:

 

Threads often take on a life of their own, don't they? No worries. I just wonder where I read that. Shrug. Oh well. :001_smile:

[lorisuewho]

Lori,

 

Are you skipping the grammar in LOE? You are using CtGE and Landmark so I assume that you will skip the grammar. I'd like to run my goals by you and get your thoughts on whether or not LOE is the right choice for us and how Id integrate it without overkill. I am really in love with her book and I'm certain that of all the OG options I've tried LOE is closest to perfect. I don't really want to waste money (can't afford it) on a workbook that will go largely unused though. I think all of my kids will benefit from LOE but I can't tell whether or not I need a workbook for each one.

 

Should I PM you re: my goals for my kids or share here? It is all interrelated but this isn't specifically about Landmark although I'd like to see how each piece fits together. :001_smile:

 

If you don't mind sharing your goals on the board, I think it would be great to do it in this thread. I think it is helpful for everyone when we share where we want to go. We need to know the destination to figure out the best route and vehicle for our trip! If you would rather PM that would be fine too. Keep in mind I haven't actually used LOE! But I do have it all here ready to go!

 

ETA: I have to go for this evening, but I'll check back tomorrow!

Edited May 19, 2012 by lorisuewho

[lorisuewho]

Threads often take on a life of their own, don't they? No worries. I just wonder where I read that. Shrug. Oh well. :001_smile:

 

The thing is you probably COULD do it just three days a week. Each lesson is only one page. You might want to double up some days and I'm sure there are going to be pages you might want to skip. Especially if you are overlapping with an O-G curriculum.

[atozmom]

The thing is you probably COULD do it just three days a week. Each lesson is only one page. You might want to double up some days and I'm sure there are going to be pages you might want to skip. Especially if you are overlapping with an O-G curriculum.

 

The "To the Teacher" sample page on the R&S site says that the first 29 lessons are a complete review of book 1. So if you don't need that, you could skip those.

[atozmom]

I like the Gutenburg versions to copy and paste from, but NOT to print out as reading lesson pages, for the student to use. I love how many different formats I have access to that are all the same lessons.

 

I agree. I like to read from the book.

[atozmom]

What a shame that they don't have a better handle on what the curriculum entails.

 

 

 

:iagree: This confuses me a bit. Shouldn't they know a little more about the curriculum they sell? Or at least connect you with someone who does? I could understand if they were a large homeschool store that sold multiple curriculum from multiple publishers, but this is their own curriculum. I will be hitting their booth at the convention next week, curious to see what I find.

[Hunter]

I see. Okay, my numbers are off then. I thought I read that they plan for 3 lessons a week. I wonder where I read that?!

 

3 lessons a week in Grade 4-8. Grades 5 and 6 are combined. Grades 7 and 8 are combined. The same topics are taught. The series claims that the the older grade lesson is harder and longer, but I see little difference.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Hunter

[Hunter]

The Gutenberg McGuffey's are great for cut and paste, but a little awkward for reading. I think Google has decent copies of all the books except for 4, that are better for printing out.

 

I bought the CD mainly for the Word List, and for book 4, and the alternate readers, and to be SURE I had the right editions that would ensure I was using the word list in the Word List. The CD can definitely be waitlisted if you don't need book 4 and aren't as obsessed with the word list as I am. If you want to be sure that a Google copy is the right one, you can check it against the Gutenberg copy, of have me compare it to my CD copies.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Hunter

[abrightmom]

Found 2nd grade for Landmark which is the level I want to try. It was on e-bay for 17.99, no McGuffey's reader. That works out great for me because I own the set of readers already. :001_smile: I am excited to try out the Landmark Literature curriculum in this way. I'm pretty set on using CLE Reading beginning in Grade 4 because I really do like the skills it works on AND my son LOVES their readers. I think CLE Reading 4 is where it begins to get good. No phonics and only 5 LUs. Leaves plenty of time for reading great literature (with no output required) and heavier work on composition/grammar. If I like Landmark I can see using it for 2nd and 3rd grade before jumping over to CLE.

 

We'll see. :001_smile:

[Hunter]

Found 2nd grade for Landmark which is the level I want to try. It was on e-bay for 17.99, no McGuffey's reader. That works out great for me because I own the set of readers already. :001_smile: I am excited to try out the Landmark Literature curriculum in this way. I'm pretty set on using CLE Reading beginning in Grade 4 because I really do like the skills it works on AND my son LOVES their readers. I think CLE Reading 4 is where it begins to get good. No phonics and only 5 LUs. Leaves plenty of time for reading great literature (with no output required) and heavier work on composition/grammar. If I like Landmark I can see using it for 2nd and 3rd grade before jumping over to CLE.

 

We'll see. :001_smile:

 

Congratualtions! I wonder if your workbooks include the Art-Literature reader selections or key to them.

 

A lot of curricula have their sweet-spot. The trick is to find it, and swoop in and out for that sweet-spot.

 

Sometimes the sweet-spot is just one text. Rod and Staff Grade 4 geography is a treasure, sandwiched between history books I have no interest in at all.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Hunter

[abrightmom]

Congratualtions! I wonder if your workbooks include the Art-Literature reader selections or key to them.

 

I sure hope so.... :001_smile:

[stripe]

Just wanted to post this.

As for my friend that THINKS she is joining the Amish, I think I can keep her here in the city

It's funny, I was reading the blog of Saloma Furlong, who grew up Amish and left, a few weeks ago, and she has a few articles pondering why so many people are attracted to the Amish when it's very hard to join them.

 

It makes me too wonder who she's talking to on the phone and if they are really Amish or have some non-religious/ulterior motive? Not to sound creepy.

 

Anyway I saw S. Furlong interviewed in the (very good) documentary on American Experience called The Amish.

[lorisuewho]

Found 2nd grade for Landmark which is the level I want to try. It was on e-bay for 17.99, no McGuffey's reader. That works out great for me because I own the set of readers already. :001_smile: I am excited to try out the Landmark Literature curriculum in this way. I'm pretty set on using CLE Reading beginning in Grade 4 because I really do like the skills it works on AND my son LOVES their readers. I think CLE Reading 4 is where it begins to get good. No phonics and only 5 LUs. Leaves plenty of time for reading great literature (with no output required) and heavier work on composition/grammar. If I like Landmark I can see using it for 2nd and 3rd grade before jumping over to CLE.

 

We'll see. :001_smile:

 

That was a great deal!

 

I'm not done with CLE reading either. I tried it for Learn to Read but didn't like the workbooks. However, I like the little stories. I'm using the readers for 2nd and 1st grade. I, too, hope to jump back in CLE in a later grade. . .after they are done with all that schwaness in the lower grades.

[lorisuewho]

Just wanted to post this.

 

It's funny, I was reading the blog of Saloma Furlong, who grew up Amish and left, a few weeks ago, and she has a few articles pondering why so many people are attracted to the Amish when it's very hard to join them.

 

It makes me too wonder who she's talking to on the phone and if they are really Amish or have some non-religious/ulterior motive? Not to sound creepy.

 

Anyway I saw S. Furlong interviewed in the (very good) documentary on American Experience called The Amish.

 

 

Well, my understanding is that the Amish may have a phone, but it has to be out in the field, not in their home. So they have little wooden sheds, like a phone booth. Some even have answering machines. So I guess she COULD be talking to someone who is Amish, but it all sounds suspicious to me.

 

I will have to check out the blog. Thanks for the link.

[stripe]

It wasn't the fact that it was a person claiming to be Amish on a phone, it was the fact that one can pretend many things from behind a phone.

 

ETA: No, that's not it exactly.

 

It's that someone is claiming to be a member of a group that is generally not very open to outsiders, saying "come on and join us!" -- something about this doesn't sound characteristically Amish, from what I understand of them, which is admittedly not much, but does sound in line with suspicious behavior.

Edited May 19, 2012 by stripe

[lorisuewho]

It's that someone is claiming to be a member of a group that is generally not very open to outsiders, saying "come on and join us!" -- something about this doesn't sound characteristically Amish, from what I understand of them, which is admittedly not much, but does sound in line with suspicious behavior.

 

 

:iagree:

[atozmom]

That was a great deal!

 

I'm not done with CLE reading either. I tried it for Learn to Read but didn't like the workbooks. However, I like the little stories. I'm using the readers for 2nd and 1st grade. I, too, hope to jump back in CLE in a later grade. . .after they are done with all that schwaness in the lower grades.

 

This is where we are at too. In fact, I own the CLE readers for levels 1, 2 and 3 already. I have the Teacher's guides for 1 and 2 and have just been pulling some of the comprehension questions out of those. I really do not like the LUs at this stage. So my struggle is whether or not we will just continue on this path or try Landmark. There is just something about Landmark that calls to me. :lol:

[abrightmom]

If you don't mind sharing your goals on the board, I think it would be great to do it in this thread. I think it is helpful for everyone when we share where we want to go. We need to know the destination to figure out the best route and vehicle for our trip! If you would rather PM that would be fine too. Keep in mind I haven't actually used LOE! But I do have it all here ready to go!

 

ETA: I have to go for this evening, but I'll check back tomorrow!

 

Good morning ladies. This thread is hilarious :lol:.

 

I would REALLy appreciate some counsel re: my kids in the LA area. I'll try to be concise with where they are at, their struggles as I see them, and what I have dabbled in and prefer in curriculum.

 

DS9 is a rising 4th grader; 10 this fall. I am considering taking him thru LOE, the 16 week plan. He was self taught in reading. Phonics was weird for him. He is a natural speller and does WELL with dictation. We use studied dictation and R&S spelling 4. I like the exercises R&S spelling uses. His struggle is now in reading. He is a very good reader and loves to read. Reads constantly. But, he has rotten pronunciation now. Oy! As the reading is getting more difficult it is becoming more apparent. He stumbles more in reading aloud. Very noticeable and a new problem of the past few months.

 

I think he'd benefit from learning phonograms, word analysis, open and closed syllables, etc. What do you think? I've also considered using a resource geared toward reading multi syllable words. The name escapes me at the moment. I HAVE to find that. This son needs to take a big step forward in composition this year. My teaching in that has been sub par. oh, also working on elocution? Is that the word? Reading aloud from a more difficult text with high vocabulary. Maybe using McGuffeys reader for this.

 

DS8, rising 2nd grader. He is a good reader though doesn't love it yet. We will work on building endurance this year. Awesome in narration. Not such a good speller so I think he would benefit from the same skills with phonograms, word analysis, syllable work, etc. He also needs to stretch himself in attention to detail, composition, and beginning grammar. I plan to use CtGE with him along with Landmark. Possibly LOE or ?

 

DD6 is learning to read. We are using Phonics Pathways. She has much better fine motor skills than the boys at this age. She likes to write. I want her to learn phonograms, etc and do more writing. I have considered Memoria Press for her. Though there is no teaching of phonograms I do like what I see. Not sure beyond that. I need to find a good groove for her with phonics, writing, etc.

 

I have tried a few OG or Spalding programs. We used Phonics Road awhile and some AAS. I have HTTS and WRTR. I keep,thinking I could simply teach the phonograms from WRTR with modification, some syllabication rules, and go from there without buying LOE. I do not want grammar from LOE. I want to be consistent. I'm a little annoyed at the differences in sounds for y and I. I like AAS' way because it makes sense to me. I refuse to teach that y says short I in a word like baby. AAS moves slow for me though I have considered buying the guides and cards and cherry picking concepts as needed. I don't know about markings. They sure help ME to teach and analyze a word so I think we'd like to use them in part. I like Denise's book and based on a number of things I believe LOE is what I have been waiting for. But, I don't want the grammar and I want to be efficient in what we do.

 

I'm so frazzled by this. I don't want to waste any time or money but I DO want to equip my kids and am willing to spend the time. I don't mind taking a few months with my oldest and just focussing on laying a stronger foundation if it would help. I do know that he will improve by reading and writing more. He does remember words once we've worked on them in dictation or in his spelling book. I don't know that he needs the parts anymore (phonograms).

 

Can I use LOE Essentials without the workbook? It doesn't seem possible based on the samples. I don't see the student workbook info repeated in the TM.

 

Pardon typos. Finger typing on iPad. :001_huh:

[Hunter]

Hmm, maybe I should find out who she called :-0 I was assuming that she got info off the back of the tracts, which are Mennonite, even though I ordered an Amish curriculum. This is going to be a LONG summer me thinks!

[Hunter]

CGE and McGuffey's both use the short i for final y. It was the standard in the past. I don't now if that will put you off of either of these.

 

I've got several dictionaries around here with the short i final y. Since most of my curricula all use it, I'm just going with it mostly :-0 I don't know what else to do. Also, PERSONALLY I do not say a strong ee for final y, so my students hear my REAL in between accent.

[abrightmom]

CGE and McGuffey's both use the short i for final y. It was the standard in the past. I don't now if that will put you off of either of these.

 

I've got several dictionaries around here with the short i final y. Since most of my curricula all use it, I'm just going with it mostly :-0 I don't know what else to do. Also, PERSONALLY I do not say a strong ee for final y, so my students hear my REAL in between accent.

 

I live in the Northwest and except for a decade in So. Cal I've always lived here. Never in my LIFE had I heard 'y' say a short 'i' at the end of a word. Never. :001_huh: I find it so outside the norm for me and so nonsensical. It is incredibly awkward to teach.

 

In Logic of English she has a DIFFERENT way of presenting I and Y. I was like, WHAT???!!!! Grrrrrrrrrr. The 'i' says 'y' (the consonant sound of y) as in "radio". I don't remember if the short i was one of the y sounds or not. Have to refer back to the You Tube videos to find out.

 

I do understand WHY it's taught with a short i but it's irrelevant to the way we read, speak, spell, write here. It's unnecessarily complicated for us. I have NO problems crossing that stuff out or modifying the lesson in some way in Landmark or CtGE. :001_smile: This is why I might stick with buying AAS (all the levels), teaching the phonograms, and cherry picking concepts AS NEEDED (i.e. when a child hits a bump with a particular pronunciation or spelling issue). I love the scripting and the organization as well as the presentation of rules and phonograms. They make perfect sense to me. I was hoping that LOE Essentials would provide that same power without having to buy the workbooks. We'll see.

[atozmom]

I was hoping that LOE Essentials would provide that same power without having to buy the workbooks. We'll see.

 

Keep in mind that we haven't used LOE yet either, but I do have it. I think that you could use just the TE if all you wanted was the phonograms/spelling. There are some spots in the TE that say "Read the words in your workbook, then underline____." But those same words are in the TE. So you could just write them on a white board and then have your dc read and underline there. There is also a section in the lessons that say "write each new phonogram five times while saying the sounds aloud." The new phonograms are listed in the first part of the lesson. Again this could be done on a whiteboard or piece of paper. If you are only using LOE for spelling and phonograms, I think you could make do with just the TE. Again, we have not actually used the program yet, this is just me looking at the TE and thinking it could be doable. I would take a look at the online samples again, print them out if need be. Then sit down with them as if you were going to teach just from that. Does it make sense and seem doable?

 

Ok Lori, you have LOE too, so please weigh in here. Feel free to tell me I am way off base. :D With LOE, CGE, LFB, and everything else mentioned this week, my brain feels a bit fried. I think it's time to step away from the computer and curriculum for at least 24 hours. :lol:

 

ETA: Also keep in mind that I hardly ever use anything the way it was originally intended. :tongue_smilie:

[lorisuewho]

Good morning ladies. This thread is hilarious :lol:.

 

I would REALLy appreciate some counsel re: my kids in the LA area. I'll try to be concise with where they are at, their struggles as I see them, and what I have dabbled in and prefer in curriculum.

 

DS9 is a rising 4th grader; 10 this fall. I am considering taking him thru LOE, the 16 week plan. He was self taught in reading. Phonics was weird for him. He is a natural speller and does WELL with dictation. We use studied dictation and R&S spelling 4. I like the exercises R&S spelling uses. His struggle is now in reading. He is a very good reader and loves to read. Reads constantly. But, he has rotten pronunciation now. Oy! As the reading is getting more difficult it is becoming more apparent. He stumbles more in reading aloud. Very noticeable and a new problem of the past few months.

 

I think he'd benefit from learning phonograms, word analysis, open and closed syllables, etc. What do you think? I've also considered using a resource geared toward reading multi syllable words. The name escapes me at the moment. I HAVE to find that. This son needs to take a big step forward in composition this year. My teaching in that has been sub par. oh, also working on elocution? Is that the word? Reading aloud from a more difficult text with high vocabulary. Maybe using McGuffeys reader for this.

 

DS8, rising 2nd grader. He is a good reader though doesn't love it yet. We will work on building endurance this year. Awesome in narration. Not such a good speller so I think he would benefit from the same skills with phonograms, word analysis, syllable work, etc. He also needs to stretch himself in attention to detail, composition, and beginning grammar. I plan to use CtGE with him along with Landmark. Possibly LOE or ?

 

DD6 is learning to read. We are using Phonics Pathways. She has much better fine motor skills than the boys at this age. She likes to write. I want her to learn phonograms, etc and do more writing. I have considered Memoria Press for her. Though there is no teaching of phonograms I do like what I see. Not sure beyond that. I need to find a good groove for her with phonics, writing, etc.

 

I have tried a few OG or Spalding programs. We used Phonics Road awhile and some AAS. I have HTTS and WRTR. I keep,thinking I could simply teach the phonograms from WRTR with modification, some syllabication rules, and go from there without buying LOE. I do not want grammar from LOE. I want to be consistent. I'm a little annoyed at the differences in sounds for y and I. I like AAS' way because it makes sense to me. I refuse to teach that y says short I in a word like baby. AAS moves slow for me though I have considered buying the guides and cards and cherry picking concepts as needed. I don't know about markings. They sure help ME to teach and analyze a word so I think we'd like to use them in part. I like Denise's book and based on a number of things I believe LOE is what I have been waiting for. But, I don't want the grammar and I want to be efficient in what we do.

 

I'm so frazzled by this. I don't want to waste any time or money but I DO want to equip my kids and am willing to spend the time. I don't mind taking a few months with my oldest and just focussing on laying a stronger foundation if it would help. I do know that he will improve by reading and writing more. He does remember words once we've worked on them in dictation or in his spelling book. I don't know that he needs the parts anymore (phonograms).

 

Can I use LOE Essentials without the workbook? It doesn't seem possible based on the samples. I don't see the student workbook info repeated in the TM.

 

Pardon typos. Finger typing on iPad. :001_huh:

 

Well, I think what you are already thinking for each child sounds good! Obviously I'm using a lot of the same things so I'm biased (but "informed" seems better:D). I don't think anyone NEEDS LOE; I think it all could be done with just WRTR. But I will plug LOE one more time and say that I really like that she is using the high frequency words like Spalding, but organizing them by spelling pattern to make instruction make more sense. And it is very well scripted.

 

Skipping the grammar in LOE is no big deal. I think I will skip it this first time through and perhaps revisit it if we need to go through again. I think the grammar that we're going to get from Climbing to Good English and there is a bit of grammar in MP first grade StoryTime Treasures, will be plenty.

 

I don't think you will be sorry with your Landmark 2nd grade purchase.

 

I understand the need to think, rethink, evaluate, and re-evaluate purchases for price, quality, and the need to be efficient and not overworking the child with busy work. Mostly, I will just say, (which you are already doing) is to ask yourself where is this curriculum going? Is that where I want to be going? If it isn't get off the bus and find yourself a different ride. The other question is, is this curriculum taking a good travel route for my child? Is it too scenic? (meaning too much busy work), or is the route too boring? Does it have too many rats or cats? :D

 

I think your plan is a good one. It has depth and thought.

 

CGE and McGuffey's both use the short i for final y. It was the standard in the past. I don't now if that will put you off of either of these.

 

 

Okay, true confession. Because I have spent my life around the Amish and Mennonite, I have spent a good amount of time with my friends when I was young pretending to speak with their accent. The plain ALWAYS use the short i sound for the Y at the end of words when they speak. Weeks ago when I got my Thorndike dictionary I just had to call up my best friend (who has been my best friend since we were kids) and tell her that all along the Mennonites were the ones speaking correctly and we are the ones talking "funni."

 

In Logic of English she has a DIFFERENT way of presenting I and Y. I was like, WHAT???!!!! Grrrrrrrrrr. The 'i' says 'y' (the consonant sound of y) as in "radio". I don't remember if the short i was one of the y sounds or not. Have to refer back to the You Tube videos to find out.

 

 

 

in LOE, y says, consonant y, short i, long i, and long e.

I says, short i, long i, long e, and consonant y.

 

Ok Lori, you have LOE too, so please weigh in here. Feel free to tell me I am way off base. :D With LOE, CGE, LFB, and everything else mentioned this week, my brain feels a bit fried. I think it's time to step away from the computer and curriculum for at least 24 hours. :lol:

 

ETA: Also keep in mind that I hardly ever use anything the way it was originally intended. :tongue_smilie:

 

Okay, I think you COULD do it without the workbook, but if you are going to spend $100 on the manual, I would just get the $15 workbook. I think an older child could probably write his/her answers on a separate sheet if you wanted to reuse the workbook. I was just going to get one workbook for my boys to share, but then when I saw how many pages it was I thought "just get another workbook." <sigh> It was indeed a lot of money all together.

I bought the spelling notebook, but I'm glad I bought just one of those. I can easily recreate the spelling notebook in a composition book for the other child. I could even tell you how to set up the notebook if you want to do it without purchasing it.

 

Again, I don't think that LOE is going to provide any instruction that you can't recreate yourself with AAS or WRTR or something else. What you are paying for is the organization of the system and the crazy-easy-to-follow and thorough instructions. I used the first too levels of AAS and I thought it was great. I loved the tiles and the way it was written out. I could have stuck with that program and it would have been fine. It just seemed a bit slow moving for us and it was difficult to move it forward faster without buying all the manuals ahead of time. The cost of doing that probably would have been equal to what I paid for LOE. I don't know. There are no easy answers. The good news is that I really don't think there are that many WRONG answers. It is a bowl of fruit. They are all different, but there isn't necessarily a BAD choice.

[lorisuewho]

I'm out of tagging ability. Can someone else tag this thread with cge, climbing to good english or any of the other million topics we discussed?

[atozmom]

 

Okay, I think you COULD do it without the workbook, but if you are going to spend $100 on the manual, I would just get the $15 workbook. I think an older child could probably write his/her answers on a separate sheet if you wanted to reuse the workbook. I was just going to get one workbook for my boys to share, but then when I saw how many pages it was I thought "just get another workbook." <sigh> It was indeed a lot of money all together.

I bought the spelling notebook, but I'm glad I bought just one of those. I can easily recreate the spelling notebook in a composition book for the other child. I could even tell you how to set up the notebook if you want to do it without purchasing it.

 

The workbook was one of the main draws for me with LOE. I was creating our own to use with AAS. It was just too time consuming. I plan on looking at the spelling notebook at the convention. I am still not sold on that yet.

[Hunter]

I'm all tagged out too :-)

[lorisuewho]

The workbook was one of the main draws for me with LOE. I was creating our own to use with AAS. It was just too time consuming. I plan on looking at the spelling notebook at the convention. I am still not sold on that yet.

 

I really like the idea of keeping a spelling notebook. That is what I liked about the Spalding method. The LOE notebook could easily be recreated in a plain composition book. The question was: Is it worth my time to save $8? I decided being able to look at one to copy it from was indeed worth $8. Then if I want to sell it off later I could do that or just use it with my last child. Seeing everything at convention will be helpful to you.

[atozmom]

I'm out of tagging ability. Can someone else tag this thread with cge, climbing to good english

 

I was able to add these

[abrightmom]

Lori and Ann-Marie,

 

THANK YOU for your advice and thoughts. Whew! There is a LOT to think about. LOE is really what I want but multiply the items x3kids and it's over $200. Teacher's guide, 3 workbooks, phonogram cards, games book, 2 or 3 decks of cards (can't remember what is needed), spelling journals (LOVE this idea) and, well, that is a pretty penny. NOW, I do know I can re-sell in the future if I want to (I may not though because I love having the materials in my reference library) and I have at least ONE more kiddo coming up the ranks. I hope they'll be another little after that.....

 

I DO want to use LOE primarily for spelling and reading; not grammar or composition. Perhaps I'll do two orders and phase in. My daughter is just 6 and doesn't need a workbook at this point. She needs to learn the phonograms and we can do that without a workbook or a journal. That shaves a wee bit off the cost..... sigh.

 

I might want to try the whiteboard idea though. Drat. I'm going back to the LOE website and I'm going to do what Ann-Marie suggested and print up the sample lessons. I'll talk with my DH again as well. We're REALLY trying to shave the budget this year and I have the biggest wish list EVER (and really it's a needs list). :001_smile:

 

ETA: Okay, I was just on the LOE website crunching numbers. Whew. Did you ladies purchase grammar cards, advanced phonogram cards, or spelling rule cards? Do you think you will want to use those to aid in review? What about the Game Book and Cards package? That looks like an awesome tool. What about cursive vs. manuscript? UGH. So many decisions. And, then, what if I ditch the whole thing..... I will be sitting here in a year wishing I'd taught my kids this way.

Edited May 19, 2012 by abrightmom

[lorisuewho]

ETA: Okay, I was just on the LOE website crunching numbers. Whew. Did you ladies purchase grammar cards, advanced phonogram cards, or spelling rule cards? Do you think you will want to use those to aid in review? What about the Game Book and Cards package? That looks like an awesome tool. What about cursive vs. manuscript? UGH. So many decisions. And, then, what if I ditch the whole thing..... I will be sitting here in a year wishing I'd taught my kids this way.

 

You are not going to make a wrong choice. The only truly wrong choice is to buy something if you don't have the money to spend.

 

I think my bill was like $235. I paid cash so I was sure I knew what I was doing. Putting that amount on credit would have been too easy. Handing over my cash that I had saved for months made me understand what I was doing.

 

I bought two decks of cards and the game book. It is my favorite purchase. I bought the manuscript workbook because I'm not teaching cursive yet. We are using Pentime manuscript, but I don't think my children will have any trouble reading the font in the workbook. I did not buy the advanced cards or the grammar cards. I did buy the basic phonograms and the spelling cards, but it would be very easy to make up your own of both of these because everything is so clearly written out in the manual. And then the one spelling journal I bought. <sigh>. But, I think we are going to LOVE it!

Edited May 19, 2012 by lorisuewho

[Hunter]

When money starts getting tight and I think I know what I really want, I use this

, that uses a folded piece of big art paper.

 

I mark down what I will need NOW, separate from what can wait, and then create a budget for the year.

 

And sometimes when I can't afford something and move on, I've been so blessed by something that I like better. I was quite crestfallen when I realized that I just could not justify the expense of Mosdos literature. I honest like McGuffey and the $1.00 Scholastic Literature Circle Guides, SO much more than I would have liked Mosdos.

 

If LOE is too much, sit on it. Use the planner to plot out what you have and can afford. You couldn't implement all the new things at once anyway. Get yourself settled with what you can afford without strain right now. Then wait and see what happens.

 

I tend to buy more than I can afford. And I tend to push aside wonderful resources, just because I am excited about the new shiny thing. When I use this planner I spend less and have better things. Sometime I just don't care and waste my money and enjoy doing that. But when things get tight, I pull out my planner and it all falls into place, when I see full squares that don't have room for the new thing I think I need so much.

[atozmom]

ETA: Okay, I was just on the LOE website crunching numbers. Whew. Did you ladies purchase grammar cards, advanced phonogram cards, or spelling rule cards? Do you think you will want to use those to aid in review? What about the Game Book and Cards package? That looks like an awesome tool. What about cursive vs. manuscript? UGH. So many decisions. And, then, what if I ditch the whole thing..... I will be sitting here in a year wishing I'd taught my kids this way.

 

Yes, only 2 sets of game cards are necessary. Also agreeing with Lori, it would be SO easy to make your own phonogram cards and spelling cards as everything is in the book. The grammar cards and advanced cards are not necessary. We went with the cursive workbook because my ds was ready and wanted to learn cursive. Also, we will probably take 2 years to finish the entire curriculum. So the cost that I spent this year actually covered 2 years. Not so bad when you think of it that way.

[lorisuewho]

Also, we will probably take 2 years to finish the entire curriculum. So the cost that I spent this year actually covered 2 years. Not so bad when you think of it that way.

 

I agree with this. I don't see any way we will finish in a year. I think it will take us at least 1 1/2 weeks per lesson, considering the young age of our children.

[abrightmom]

Thanks ladies :001_smile:.

 

I think one of the struggles I am having is understanding the application of LOE in my family with such varying ages and stages. It is hard to tell precisely what we will use and how we will use it until we begin. How will each child handle it since it isn't based on grade levels? How much time will it take and should I invest that much time each day with three students? Questions like that are going thru my mind..... There is only so much time in my day and while I want my kids to have these skills I can't decide if it will benefit them more than lots of reading, copy work, dictation, individualized spelling work, Etc. While my oldest has struggles with reading I don't necessarily believe it is abnormal OR that it needs such a big approach.

 

I also wonder if it will make a big enough difference to justify time and money. I think it is worth it but there is always a nagging doubt, ya know?! :lol:

 

I'm going to talk it over with my husband again and we will have to decide once and for all.

 

Thanks for listening and answering and thinking..... :001_smile:

[Hunter]

Thanks ladies :001_smile:.

 

I think one of the struggles I am having is understanding the application of LOE in my family with such varying ages and stages. It is hard to tell precisely what we will use and how we will use it until we begin. How will each child handle it since it isn't based on grade levels? How much time will it take and should I invest that much time each day with three students? Questions like that are going thru my mind..... There is only so much time in my day and while I want my kids to have these skills I can't decide if it will benefit them more than lots of reading, copy work, dictation, individualized spelling work, Etc. While my oldest has struggles with reading I don't necessarily believe it is abnormal OR that it needs such a big approach.

 

I also wonder if it will make a big enough difference to justify time and money. I think it is worth it but there is always a nagging doubt, ya know?! :lol:

 

I'm going to talk it over with my husband again and we will have to decide once and for all.

 

Thanks for listening and answering and thinking..... :001_smile:

 

I totally understand what you are saying. When we spent the time and money on one thing, another thing automatically gets neglected, and we have to factor that into the equation. I've noticed that at first, for 10% work we get 90% results. As we move along investing more and more time and money, we end out with 90% work and 10% results. Sometimes it works best to just do lots of easy and cheap things.

 

Did you look at the cheap Scholastic red cover lit guides?

[atozmom]

Thanks ladies :001_smile:.

 

I think one of the struggles I am having is understanding the application of LOE in my family with such varying ages and stages. It is hard to tell precisely what we will use and how we will use it until we begin. How will each child handle it since it isn't based on grade levels? How much time will it take and should I invest that much time each day with three students? Questions like that are going thru my mind..... There is only so much time in my day and while I want my kids to have these skills I can't decide if it will benefit them more than lots of reading, copy work, dictation, individualized spelling work, Etc. While my oldest has struggles with reading I don't necessarily believe it is abnormal OR that it needs such a big approach.

 

I also wonder if it will make a big enough difference to justify time and money. I think it is worth it but there is always a nagging doubt, ya know?! :lol:

 

I'm going to talk it over with my husband again and we will have to decide once and for all.

 

Thanks for listening and answering and thinking..... :001_smile:

 

I did not even go by the lesson plans in the front of the book. I went through and looked at the lessons and broke them into small chunks. DS can not spend a lot of time on one subject, he just won't stay focused. This is always my biggest reason for tweaking everything we do. So honestly, you could spend only as much time as you want to each day. If each lesson takes you 2 weeks to complete, that's ok.

 

I am not trying to talk you into LOE. I just wanted you to know that you have options and you could make it your own. :001_smile:

[atozmom]

Hunter,

 

Thanks for responding. :001_smile:

 

R and S is fine for my oldest. The presentation of topics is off for me. And, I didn't find the composition to be enough in Level 3 but 4 is better. It is all teacher intensive for us for the most part. But, it IS thorough and traditional, which I love.

 

My 2nd born will thrive with CtGE. He loves workbooks and learns better that way while the oldest does well with the heavy oral work in R&S. I am starting him in it. We will skip the respellings. I really do NOT like those. :001_smile:

 

I may try Landmark 2nd grade with him also. CtGE is 3 lessons a week. They might mesh well. My oldest will use CLE Reading 4, read a lot of real books, and ?? May try CtGE because I like the pace, format, and presentation of topics. He uses R&S spelling.

 

I have no idea what to use with my 6 year old. No idea at all.

 

Since you've mentioned liking CLE reading for your older, I thought I would mention something I just saw on their website. I like the CLE readers for 2 & 3 but never cared for all of the extra "stuff" in the light units. Well they have made worksheets for levels 2 and 3 that look like they cover vocabulary and comprehension. You can see samples of level 3, they don't have 2 up yet. They are very affordable.

[abrightmom]

Since you've mentioned liking CLE reading for your older, I thought I would mention something I just saw on their website. I like the CLE readers for 2 & 3 but never cared for all of the extra "stuff" in the light units. Well they have made worksheets for levels 2 and 3 that look like they cover vocabulary and comprehension. You can see samples of level 3, they don't have 2 up yet. They are very affordable.

 

Thanks for pointing this out. I am going to have a look. We LOVE the readers and my oldest is using the LUs for grade 4 this year.