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Hey all,

 

Just wondering if anyone has any opinions on the Landmark Baptist Literature curriculum? I am thinking of using 3rd. It intrigues me because they use the McGuffey readers.

 

I have also looked at CLE reading but wasn't impressed. Am I missing something by just looking at the samples?

 

Josephine

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I've been looking at this also. I have the fourth grade literature but haven't spent a lot of time with it yet. In my general look at it, I thought it would be interesting. My only problem is that the copy of McGuffey's that came with the package is pretty poor quality. I found the same version free online though and if I decide to use it I will probably print it out from that source from my kidlet. The copy from Landmark was printed very small (at least for my old eyes and seemed faded). When I printed pages from the copy I found online it was in a larger font and much clearer.

 

I tried to order the other two grades that I need but like you said they are both backordered at CBD (2nd and 5th) and I tried to order from their website but even though I used a street address the order was blocked by the message about P.O. Boxes.

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Here are some copies of the Art-Literature Readers:

 

http://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Chutter%2C+Frances+Elizabeth%22

 

Not used by this program, but the co-author's Folk-Lore Readers might also interest you.

 

http://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Grover%2C+Eulalie+Osgood%2C+1873-%22

 

Some on google books.

Edited by stripe
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Here are some copies of the Art-Literature Readers:

 

http://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Chutter%2C+Frances+Elizabeth%22

 

Not used by this program, but the co-author's Folk-Lore Readers might also interest you.

 

http://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Grover%2C+Eulalie+Osgood%2C+1873-%22

 

Some on google books.

 

Thank you! I'm going to check these out this afternoon if my box doesn't arrive!

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Okay, it is here! There are two workbooks, a set of quizzes, and the McGuffey, and then an answer key. The McGuffey is the only book. There are lots of additional literature passages in the workbooks, but I can't tell at first glance from where they come. I have to make dinner and take a child to soccer now. Completely inconvenient timing for when the UPS guy came. I'll look through it tonight after the kiddos are in bed and I'll try to have a more thorough review.

 

I cannot wait to dive in!

 

Oh, and the McGuffey itself is a paperback version, but they type is very clear and readable; no problems.

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I've been looking at this also. I have the fourth grade literature but haven't spent a lot of time with it yet. In my general look at it, I thought it would be interesting. My only problem is that the copy of McGuffey's that came with the package is pretty poor quality. I found the same version free online though and if I decide to use it I will probably print it out from that source from my kidlet. The copy from Landmark was printed very small (at least for my old eyes and seemed faded). When I printed pages from the copy I found online it was in a larger font and much clearer.

 

I tried to order the other two grades that I need but like you said they are both backordered at CBD (2nd and 5th) and I tried to order from their website but even though I used a street address the order was blocked by the message about P.O. Boxes.

 

What do the 4th grade book reports look like?

 

If anyone is seriously enamored with the McGuffey's Eclectic, it might be worth investing in the this CD. Shipping is free and lightening fast. I wasn't able to find a good copy of some of the books included, and I really wanted a complete set, that I can print out for certain types of lessons, and for students that I don't expect to stick with it.

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Dinner is in the oven!

 

I really think I'm going to invest in the CD. I would love to be able to print out copies. Then I can cut up phrases and have my ds reconstruct the sentence. We can cut up words by syllables. We can take words from the lesson and cut them up and put them in alphabetical order, etc.

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Dinner is in the oven!

 

I really think I'm going to invest in the CD. I would love to be able to print out copies. Then I can cut up phrases and have my ds reconstruct the sentence. We can cut up words by syllables. We can take words from the lesson and cut them up and put them in alphabetical order, etc.

 

Oooh what AWESOME ideas!!!!

 

I feel this ultra controlled vocabulary is ripe for all sorts of ideas that we have not thought up yet, or applied from other curricula.

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Okay, it is here! There are two workbooks, a set of quizzes, and the McGuffey, and then an answer key. The McGuffey is the only book. There are lots of additional literature passages in the workbooks, but I can't tell at first glance from where they come. I have to make dinner and take a child to soccer now. Completely inconvenient timing for when the UPS guy came. I'll look through it tonight after the kiddos are in bed and I'll try to have a more thorough review.

 

I cannot wait to dive in!

 

Oh, and the McGuffey itself is a paperback version, but they type is very clear and readable; no problems.

 

Drat. I wanted you to hate it :D. Waiting for the review.....hurry!!

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What do the 4th grade book reports look like?

 

If anyone is seriously enamored with the McGuffey's Eclectic, it might be worth investing in the this CD. Shipping is free and lightening fast. I wasn't able to find a good copy of some of the books included, and I really wanted a complete set, that I can print out for certain types of lessons, and for students that I don't expect to stick with it.

 

Dinner is in the oven!

 

I really think I'm going to invest in the CD. I would love to be able to print out copies. Then I can cut up phrases and have my ds reconstruct the sentence. We can cut up words by syllables. We can take words from the lesson and cut them up and put them in alphabetical order, etc.

 

Okay, stop it you two. :D:D

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Are there any good ideas in the manual for the Treadwell readers? I haven't read them in a while but maybe there's something useful in there.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=t9xEAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=treadwell&book=reading&story=_contents

 

I do like the Treadwell readers. They're on my iPad. It's rest time so I'm going to peruse them again. :001_smile:

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Are there any good ideas in the manual for the Treadwell readers? I haven't read them in a while but maybe there's something useful in there.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=t9xEAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=treadwell&book=reading&story=_contents

 

Hmm...good idea. I'm going to read it again.

 

Also Spalding's chapter on literature. Once the PRESSURE is off, of being able to DO a reading lesson anyway, without adding in the Spalding, I think I'll be able to add a bit in, a little at a time, on my good days.

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Okay, I'm ready to give my report on the 2nd grade Landmark Freedom McGuffey curriculum!

 

First off I think it is expensive compared to Pathway. I paid $38 for the literature set. I received a paperback copy of the McGuffey 2nd Reader, 2 substantial student workbooks that are printed on high quality paper and comb-bound, 1 set of 3 hole punch loose-leaf papers for the teachers that have the answers to the student books, 1 set of 3 hole punch loose-leaf quiz papers (1 for each week) and accompanying answer key to the quizzes. I assume all that is hole punched for the teacher to create a notebook for herself. There is no teacher manual to speak of.

 

The print size of the McGuffey is not too small, but it is smaller than Pathway readers, CLE readers, or even Frog and Toad. If children have trouble with smaller font, printing out the McGuffey passage might be a good option. The print size of the student workbooks is nice, probably even larger thanthe pathway workbooks which are exceptionally small. The first few lessons from the 2nd grade workbook provide handwriting style lines for the student to use for answers, then it switches over to single lines for most of the lessons.

 

There are 36 weeks of lessons, 5 lessons a week.

 

Okay all that being said, I am so excited to use this curriculum. WHY is no one talking about this curriculum here? It is classical!

 

Each page in the workbook is clean, well-organized and not cluttered. The paper is very high quailty and all clipart, photographs, and illustrations are very clear.

 

The lessons begin (like the McGuffey) with vocabulary work. Then it is followed by general comprehension questions. Students are told to answer in full sentences. I think CGE does a better job of teaching children HOW to answer in full sentences, where this curriculum just expects it to be done (maybe because this in Landmark's literature curriculum and not their English curriculum?) Lessons are are also bolstered with additional stories and poetry that are written out in the workbooks.

 

So, for example, there is a Robert Louis Stevenson study in the first semester, including poetry by him, and biographical information. These beginning lessons also teach the student how to look up words in a glossary (provided in the back of the workbooks), and dictionary skills, such as using guide words, alphabetical order, etc. There is tons of additional poetry in the workbooks and study questions about them. In the first semester, beyond the McGuffey stories themselves, there is information on Clara Barton.

 

During the second semester (added to the McGuffey stories and work with them) are quite a lot of Aesop fables, more poetry, a Longfellow study, some on William Tell, and also Sir Joshua Reynolds.

 

I think Landmark really beefed up the literature by all the additional passages provided in the workbooks.

 

What I didn't see at first glance anyway, is any use of important literary terms, like plot, setting, climax, etc. Perhaps the short stories in 2nd grade don't lend themselves well to this. I wish I could see some of the upper levels to see where the curriculum is headed.

 

The yearly goals written in the front of the workbook are great goals and I think their curriculum matches these goals well.

 

The goals say the students shall be able to:

1. Read God's Word with understanding.

2. Develop an appreciation for a variety of good literature.

3. Increase speaking and listening vocabulary.

4. Build character through exposure to character-building material.

5. Recall important facts, and deduct conclusions

6. Build confidence in oral reading.

 

Oral reading skills should include: smoothness, adhering to punctuation, enunciation, expression, poise, accuracy, speed, volume

 

(LOVE those oral reading skills; I think other curriculums should focus more on these! This is all left up to the teacher though. There is nothing to remind the teacher to be working on these since there is no teacher manual).

 

Okay, onto the quizzes. Nothing special there. There is a quiz for each week that is on the vocabulary and comprehension of the texts already read. Some quizzes have new passages for the child to read and answer questions. I don't know how much I would use these.

 

Overall, the curriculum looks very do-able. I think I'm going to still be able to do Pathway, and Memoria Press Storytime Treasures and this as long as I'm doing the others judiciously and not overloading on "workbook" work. There is an appropriate amount of writing for a second grader, really not that much writing at all required in each lesson.

 

Have any questions? Ask away!

Hope that helps!

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Are there any good ideas in the manual for the Treadwell readers? I haven't read them in a while but maybe there's something useful in there.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=t9xEAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=treadwell&book=reading&story=_contents

 

I downloaded these to my Kindle and never looked at them. I need to do that soon! Great suggestion!

 

Drat. I wanted you to hate it :D. Waiting for the review.....hurry!!

You are not going to hate it; sorry! :D

 

Word Sorts will work with some of the McGuffey's lists, especially the early lessons.

 

You all do realize we are getting off topic AGAIN, don't you? :lol:

 

Word sorts is just another reason for me to buy the CD also.

 

And I am NOT starting another thread! Let's just tag this one some more! :lol:

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Is the Stevenson material from the Art-Literature Readers? Because about half of grade 2 is RLS's bio and poems. It also contains material on Longfellow and Sir Joshua Reynolds.

 

http://archive.org/details/artliteraturere00chutgoog

 

Grade 3 of the Art-Literature readers contains material on Eugene Field, LM Alcott, Landseer, HC Andersen, many poems by Celia Thaxter, Laura Richards, and Lucy Larcom; Gainsborough, Lewis Carroll, and John Greenleaf Whittier.

 

Here it is, at long last!

http://archive.org/details/artliteraturere04chutgoog

Edited by stripe
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You are not going to hate it

 

:001_smile: Your review is great. Thanks. :001_smile: Now, I want to buy the 4th grade one for my oldest. It is on the plan for now with his VP lit (no guides though). We do like CLE Reading and they do work on literary terms. It is half a school year worth of work in 4th grade, leaving room for other pursuits.

 

I'm really stumped for my middle son. I AM doing CtGE with him though I don't know what level. I'm buying several so I can figure that out. He is right in between 2nd and 3rd grade. I don't want to use CLE Reading until 4th so Landmark MIGHT be a great complement to CtGE. I have been perusing MP's offerings as well, considering using ONE of their lit guides. I don't like too much work associated with literature (their pile of books) other than reading, savoring, and enjoying.

 

Then there is my daughter..... MP is right up her alley. She does love to write.

 

Lori, do you think we should place by our kids' grade levels? Should I use my McGuffeys readers to determine where to start? Hmmmmm. I wish the samples were more extensive. What do you think the daily load is?

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Is the Stevenson material from the Art-Literature Readers? Because about half of grade 2 is RLS's bio and poems. It also contains material on Longfellow and Sir Joshua Reynolds.

 

http://archive.org/details/artliteraturere00chutgoog

 

Grade 3 of the Art-Literature readers contains material on Eugene Field, LM Alcott, Landseer, HC Andersen, many poems by Celia Thaxter, Laura Richards, and Lucy Larcom; Gainsborough, Lewis Carroll, and John Greenleaf Whittier.

 

Here it is, at long last!

http://archive.org/details/artliteraturere04chutgoog

 

Thanks Stripe! :001_smile:

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Is the Stevenson material from the Art-Literature Readers? Because about half of grade 2 is RLS's bio and poems. It also contains material on Longfellow and Sir Joshua Reynolds.

 

http://archive.org/details/artliteraturere00chutgoog

 

Grade 3 of the Art-Literature readers contains material on Eugene Field, LM Alcott, Landseer, HC Andersen, many poems by Celia Thaxter, Laura Richards, and Lucy Larcom; Gainsborough, Lewis Carroll, and John Greenleaf Whittier.

 

Here it is, at long last!

http://archive.org/details/artliteraturere04chutgoog

 

 

The mystery is solved!!! That was it!

MOST of the selections in the workbook are directly from the Art-Literature Book 2. They must have decided since they weren't using all the passages it was more cost-effective to just put the passages they want directly in the workbook instead of printing another book.

 

Even though I'm happy to have figured it out, I really would have rather had the actual book! And, the curriculum gives NO MENTION to the source of all those passages that I could see. But they are definitely word for word.

 

I will have to download them.

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:001_smile: Your review is great. Thanks. :001_smile: Now, I want to buy the 4th grade one for my oldest. It is on the plan for now with his VP lit (no guides though). We do like CLE Reading and they do work on literary terms. It is half a school year worth of work in 4th grade, leaving room for other pursuits.

 

I'm really stumped for my middle son. I AM doing CtGE with him though I don't know what level. I'm buying several so I can figure that out. He is right in between 2nd and 3rd grade. I don't want to use CLE Reading until 4th so Landmark MIGHT be a great complement to CtGE. I have been perusing MP's offerings as well, considering using ONE of their lit guides. I don't like too much work associated with literature (their pile of books) other than reading, savoring, and enjoying.

 

Then there is my daughter..... MP is right up her alley. She does love to write.

 

Lori, do you think we should place by our kids' grade levels? Should I use my McGuffeys readers to determine where to start? Hmmmmm. I wish the samples were more extensive. What do you think the daily load is?

 

Why do all the children have to be so different? I always look at my children and wonder how they all came from the same parents but are nothing alike!

 

I would do some test reading from the McGuffeys (just download some of it for free if you don't have the books). If the child is missing more than 15% of the words, the text is too difficult for instructional purposes. It will be at frustrational level. If the child breezes through with no errors, the text is too easy and is at an independent reading level. The child should also be able to answer basic comprehension questions about what he read.

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That's weird because it's shown in the photo here

http://www.christianbook.com/landmarks-freedom-baptist-literature-grade-2/pd/31688?item_code=WW&netp_id=220748&event=ESRCG&view=details

And described as a source!

 

Good thing, too, because it was languishing on my computer!

 

I recommend searching for them on archive.org, not google books. Many of the archive records will direct you to google but the records are easier to find.

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That's weird because it's shown in the photo here

http://www.christianbook.com/landmarks-freedom-baptist-literature-grade-2/pd/31688?item_code=WW&netp_id=220748&event=ESRCG&view=details

And described as a source!

 

Good thing, too, because it was languishing on my computer!

 

I don't understand why the photo at CB is different.

 

I ordered it at convention, not through CB.

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I don't understand why the photo at CB is different.

 

I ordered it at convention, not through CB.

 

I wonder if they are updating it this year and that's why it's on backorder at CBD.

 

Thanks for the extensive review.

 

I did email Landmark about the issue with the internet ordering (re: P.O. Boxes). They answered to please call their 800 number to order.

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Lori, Thanks for the awesome review. I don't know why it's not being talked about :-0 Especially where McGuffey is mentioned in TWTM, you would think every McGuffey resources would be talked about and tried here.

 

Is there any phonics work? I'm really interested in the phonics being used in these McGuffey curricula.

 

I managed to get my hands on a copy of the Beechick manual for the OLD McGuffey's series today, at the library for about 30 minutes. It was a reference book and I couldn't take it out. It mentioned Phonics Made Plain

 

Rainbow Sample

 

Duffy Review

 

Sample

 

It looks like this curriculum teaches the phonograms but NOT the markings we are used to seeing in SWR/Spalding/LOE/Riggs. The phonograms are linked to The ABC's and All Their Tricks, which aligns with the Merriam-Webster, which is very close to the CGE respellings. Riggs is based off of the ABCs and the Merriam-Webster, and is one of the reasons I keep revisiting Riggs despite it's other drawbacks.

 

I hate that we cannot see better samples. I bought Phonics Made Plain. I couldn't help myself :-( I'm going to be what is referred to as a "tea and toast" lady by the end of the month, if I buy one more thing this month. CBD says they are shipping it tomorrow. I should have it on Monday. I already have ABCs.

 

I'm wondering if I should cancel and wait to save up for 1st grade Landmark, but...I don't think I'm going to do that, and don't even know why :-0 The $15.00 wasn't so bad, but then there was $4.00 shipping. I held off for 6 hours, but then caved. Ruth made it sound so good :-( Meat and vegetables or phonics cards? Phonics won :-0 Books aways win.

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I wish I could go back and look at all the levels of Landmark. I just didn't know what I wanted to know when I was at convention. I kind of just "happened" upon it.

 

There is no phonetic work in the workbooks beyond syllabication. It is much more focussed on vocabulary development than decoding. Why didn't I look at the first grade materials?? It is too expensive just to buy it to see it. I'd need to know that I was going to use it. Maybe I will call them today. I need to prepare questions though ahead of time so I remember everything I want to ask.

 

The phonics made plain cards look great. The ABCs and all Their Tricks is on my RR order that I don't have the money to actually place yet. (I don't think my children want to be known as the "Tea and Toast" children, so I'm going to need to still put food on the table) I think I would buy the cards if I was going to go the Spalding direction, but I'm financially and mentally committed to Logic of English now.

 

Anyone have any questions for me to ask if I call Landmark today and take up many moments of their time?

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I wonder if they are updating it this year and that's why it's on backorder at CBD.

 

 

 

I did email Landmark about the issue with the internet ordering (re: P.O. Boxes). They answered to please call their 800 number to order.

 

:iagree:This would make sense if they are updating.

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Dinner is in the oven!

 

I really think I'm going to invest in the CD. I would love to be able to print out copies. Then I can cut up phrases and have my ds reconstruct the sentence. We can cut up words by syllables. We can take words from the lesson and cut them up and put them in alphabetical order, etc.

 

Just found this. You can print pdf copies of all of them for free from the Project Gutenberg site.

 

ETA: Nice and easy. Just downloaded all of them in under 3 minutes. :D

Edited by atozmom
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Just found this. You can print pdf copies of all of them for free from the Project Gutenberg site.

 

ETA: Nice and easy. Just downloaded all of them in under 3 minutes. :D

 

I like the Gutenburg versions to copy and paste from, but NOT to print out as reading lesson pages, for the student to use. I love how many different formats I have access to that are all the same lessons.

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I wish I could go back and look at all the levels of Landmark. I just didn't know what I wanted to know when I was at convention. I kind of just "happened" upon it.

 

There is no phonetic work in the workbooks beyond syllabication. It is much more focussed on vocabulary development than decoding. Why didn't I look at the first grade materials?? It is too expensive just to buy it to see it. I'd need to know that I was going to use it. Maybe I will call them today. I need to prepare questions though ahead of time so I remember everything I want to ask.

 

The phonics made plain cards look great. The ABCs and all Their Tricks is on my RR order that I don't have the money to actually place yet. (I don't think my children want to be known as the "Tea and Toast" children, so I'm going to need to still put food on the table) I think I would buy the cards if I was going to go the Spalding direction, but I'm financially and mentally committed to Logic of English now.

 

Anyone have any questions for me to ask if I call Landmark today and take up many moments of their time?

 

Lori, can you ask which levels are solely McGuffey, and which ones include supplemental literature, and what that supplemental literature is.

 

And what the phonics instruction is. Is it compatible with any other known programs that uses phonogram cards? I can't imagine it being that different than Phonics Made Plain, since both are being sold to use with McGuffey's even if they are different versions of McGuffey's.

 

How in the world do they use 5th and 6th grade McGuffey's with 5th and 6th graders?

 

It's nice to know that the phonics stops at grade 2, if I decide to use something for phonics that is incompatible with their phonics.

 

It's nice being empty nest, and not being responsible to feed children anymore or provide them with other expectations like couches and real beds. It gives me all sorts of opportunities to be irresponsible :-) I don't have to feed my tutoring students, and they often feed me instead :-)

 

And sitting on orders for a bit is good, because it often helps us refine the orders, and take full advantage of the free or reduced shipping. Last night, I was in a reckless mood though :-0 I think sometimes I do it...just to do it...because I CAN, after so many years of living in financial abuse. I'm not sure how to explain it :-0 Being irresponsible, and even suffering the consequences of it, is liberating somehow.

Edited by Hunter
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Dinner is in the oven!

 

I really think I'm going to invest in the CD. I would love to be able to print out copies. Then I can cut up phrases and have my ds reconstruct the sentence. We can cut up words by syllables. We can take words from the lesson and cut them up and put them in alphabetical order, etc.

 

This is a great idea. I think I'll do this as well. Thanks.

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Just found this. You can print pdf copies of all of them for free from the Project Gutenberg site.

 

ETA: Nice and easy. Just downloaded all of them in under 3 minutes. :D

 

I'm going to see if I can make this work until I have more funds for the CD. It is nice that they have it available in so many different formats. Thanks for the link.

 

Now I want to download the Art-Literature books also!

 

 

Lori, can you ask which levels are solely McGuffey, and which ones include supplemental literature, and what that supplemental literature is.

 

And what the phonics instruction is. Is it compatible with any other known programs that uses phonogram cards? I can't imagine it being that different than Phonics Made Plain, since both are being sold to use with McGuffey's even if they are different versions of McGuffey's.

 

How in the world do they use 5th and 6th grade McGuffey's with 5th and 6th graders?

 

It's nice to know that the phonics stops at grade 2, if I decide to use something for phonics that is incompatible with their phonics.

 

It's nice being empty nest, and not being responsible to feed children anymore or provide them with other expectations like couches and real beds. It gives me all sorts of opportunities to be irresponsible :-) I don't have to feed my tutoring students, and they often feed me instead :-)

 

And sitting on orders for a bit is good, because it often helps us refine the orders, and take full advantage of the free or reduced shipping. Last night, I was in a reckless mood though :-0 I think sometimes I do it...just to do it...because I CAN, after so many years of living in financial abuse. I'm not sure how to explain it :-0 Being irresponsible, and even suffering the consequences of it, is liberating somehow.

 

Yes, when I was single, my budget was all books and housing. My cupboards were always bare. I can't say those were the good ol' days, though.

 

I'm marking down your questions for when I call later today. I have to actually homeschool first :D before I move onto that.

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Let me type up the links for each grade:

Primer (color/sepia) and in black and white

Book 1

Book 2

Book 3

Book 4

Book 5

 

Thanks SO much Stripe!

 

How do you all plan to handle page 26 of the primer? :-)

 

THE LITTLE BOY KNOWS.

 

"I know what you are,"

 

said a little boy.

"You are a toad.

The chickens do not know you

They have run away.

They think you are queer.

I think the chickens are queer.

They will not play with me.

They run away.

I am not queer, am I ? .

I am a boy.

Boys are not queer.

Boys like to play.

Do toads like to play?

Will you play with me?

 

Do not run away, little toad."

 

My problem isn't queer little boys and chickens, but that the book starts with cats. At least there are no rats.

 

These are really good though.

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Okay, Ladies, I talked with Landmark Freedom and now I know almost nothing that I didn't know before!

 

Everyone I talked to was friendly and polite, but I believe we were speaking a different language. The first gentleman I spoke to openly confessed that he didn't know much about the lower levels of the literature. He never heard of the Art-Literature Reader and was convinced that I didn't understand Christianbook and thought I thought that CB was Landmark's website. He said that Christianbook carried OTHER materials also and that is what I must have been looking at. :confused: Since that was going obviously no where, I dropped that question.

 

I asked when in the program there is anything other than the McGuffey, and he said starting in 7th grade.

I asked if fifth and sixth graders can really read the 5th and 6th McGuffey's and he said it is not a problem for children who have started out in their program but it can be a problem for children transferring into the program at a later grade. (This actually made sense to me.)

 

Then I asked about the phonics and it all fell apart. He said that they do a lot of phonics with flash cards and such. I asked if he could compare it to another phonics program and he said he was unfamiliar with any other phonics programs. He then transferred my call to another lady (who again was very polite and friendly). She said phonics was in all the literature up through third grade. :001_huh:I said that all I saw was syllabication and the dictionary respellings for 2nd grade but no direct phonics instruction. After we understood each other better on what I meant by phonics instruction, she said that all the phonics is concentrated in kindergarten and in the first few weeks of first grade, which reviews the K instruction.

 

I tried asking her about what type of phonics instruction, giving her prompts like "When the child is shown a flash card for the letter A, is the child just saying the short sound or is the child expected to give all the sounds of A?" She didn't really answer that question. She just reiterated that they do a lot of phonics instruction; that the K book has over 700 pages of phonics worksheets :blink: and there are pictures and the student has to identify the letter. (I didn't mention to her that I thought 700 pages was a bit excessive for a 5 year old in my humble opinion). She said they were definitely NOT a sight-word program.

 

She said, they highly recommend the Champion Phonics Reader that can be purchased separately for any child struggling in this area. (I plan to look that up to see what type of phonics it is.)

 

I really would like to purchase the first grade stuff for my children if I had a spare $40. But I don't get the feeling that the K-5 program and I would get along very well, even with the McGuffey Primer. I need to think more about how much I want the grade 1. I really LOVE grade 2.

 

I realize that all of that will be of little help, but I thought I would post it anyway!

 

ETA: Here is what Cathy Duffy says about the K program

"Reading begins with letter and sound recognition. Phonics is taught with consonant-vowel combinations first (ba, be, bi, bo, bu), then word families. 8 1/2" by 11" cards for key words/letters, numbers, some phonogram blends, and alphabetical Scripture verses come packaged with the program.

Phonics covers both long and short vowel words as well as sight words that enable students to read beginning McGuffey's Eclectic Primer and the Beginner's Champion Phonics Reader that accompany the program. Math introduces numbers and continues up through addition up to sums of 10; counting by 2's, 5's, and 10's; telling time; and money recognition. Handwriting and spelling skills are also stressed.

This program is more academic than many, and about equivalent to A Beka's kindergarten program. There are a few hands-on activities such as working with flash cards and counting pennies."

 

The part I bolded. I wonder if these means the way Webster Speller does it with the open syllables (long vowels), or if this means the way Phonics Pathways does it with the short vowel sounds and their "ladders."

Edited by lorisuewho
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I took a quick look at the K-5 program while I was at the Cincinnati convention and it looked way too "classroomy" for me. Lots of writing and paperwork and LOTS of teacher directions so I didn't look any further than that.

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I took a quick look at the K-5 program while I was at the Cincinnati convention and it looked way too "classroomy" for me. Lots of writing and paperwork and LOTS of teacher directions so I didn't look any further than that.

 

Well that confirms what I thought. Bummer.

 

I guess the good news is there isn't much direct phonics instruction in the literature guides beyond kindergarten, so I'm free to do phonics/spelling my own way and their lit guides shouldn't interfere.

 

The other good news is that there are butterscotch oatmeal cookies in the oven.

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I'll bet the 700 pages includes text from the primer and 1st reader. She was so unknowledgeable that I would take everything she said with a grain of salt.

 

I'll bet this is why the program is not more popular. I have found that superior programs are often buried under poor advertising and availability, while inferior products are sometimes more popular due to better pricing, availability and advertising.

 

CBD is notorious for having old--or even wrong--samples on their website. I'll bet that was why we saw the reader in the 2nd grade package. That could be a years old sample that they never fixed.

 

Lori, thanks so much for trying!

 

I assumed all the phonics was in the 1st grade package. That is important news that the bulk of it is in the K package that I didn't even know they have. So I'm going to assume that using the grade 1 package requires using the K first.

 

I think their attempts to line the readers up with grade levels is where things get a little sticky. I'm thinking that just stretching out the literature packages to align with the modern suggestions of the grades to use the readers with, might be the best idea.

 

Next month I will probably buy the 4th grade package. I really want to see the book reports, and if they will be useful for several grade levels.

 

More and more I am narrowing down on a few select grade levels to cover in my favorite programs, for NOW. I think I will only be using Primer-4 for McGuffey and I heard that historically that is often what was done. Depending on further reviews and the funds I have to experiment with, I may only be using Landmark 2-4. I may be narrowing my focus of CGE down to 2-5, and Study Time math down to 3-6.

 

I'm trying to figure out what my students NEED in REALITY in their everyday life. I think I want to focus on the skills that all well brought up young ladies are expected to have, to be a good hostess and homemaker. AFTER that if any of them FINISH that, then we'll talk.

 

A student got ahold of some of the tracks that fell out of a Study Time order. We are closing in on the Summer Solstice and the long days are activating her mania. She says she is going to join the Amish and has already made contact with someone that uses phones--I don't know who. Sigh!

 

I'm putting off full preparation for the junior colleges for now, as my focus, and drilling things like beautiful cursive handwriting, elocution, making change, and map drawing. Those are the lessons the ladies enjoy most, and that's what they are going to USE to enrich their lives.

 

I'm not taking on any ESL students for awhile. As I said I have literally been hiding from them. I just want to focus in on my learning disabled ladies for a bit.

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I don't have cookies, but I have whole wheat bread rising :-) "Tea and toast" isn't all that bad, when it's homemade bread :-)

 

Before I give up on any Landmark's grades, I want to see if they merely need to be spread out over more than one year, or used for an entirely different grade level all together.

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CBD is notorious for having old--or even wrong--samples on their website. I'll bet that was why we saw the reader in the 2nd grade package. That could be a years old sample that they never fixed.

.

 

It sounds to me from Lori's description and what is in the Art-Literature Readers, that they DO have this material, I think in the workbooks? Not sure why it's not credited, if that's the case. The authors studied appear to line up with the contents of the Art-Lit readers.

 

Too bad the people who sell it don't know more about it.

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Lori,

 

Thanks for making the call and persevering. What a shame that they don't have a better handle on what the curriculum entails.

 

I've been pondering the McGuffeys curric. (Landmark), CtGE/R&S, and CLE Reading 4. I am also smitten with PLL and ILL right now :D. I'm not sure what direction to move in. I'm also sort of happy with R&S and it works fine for my oldest. I don't want a bunch of overlap in programs. For us, less is more and I get too bogged down if there are too many programs. Big sigh.

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I'll bet this is why the program is not more popular. I have found that superior programs are often buried under poor advertising and availability, while inferior products are sometimes more popular due to better pricing, availability and advertising.

 

 

A student got ahold of some of the tracks that fell out of a Study Time order. We are closing in on the Summer Solstice and the long days are activating her mania. She says she is going to join the Amish and has already made contact with someone that uses phones--I don't know who. Sigh!

 

 

 

I'm not taking on any ESL students for awhile. As I said I have literally been hiding from them. I just want to focus in on my learning disabled ladies for a bit.

 

I would like to go in and help Landmark Baptist out. Of course, I'm not Baptist which might be my first stumbling block. I think they have a great product. I'd like to redo their K, and then get in someone to market the product better. Honestly, it would be sooo easy (and I plan to do this) to add in copywork from the McGuffey and narration, and there you go! A great classical literature curriculum for the elementary-aged student. Everything else is already there! The workbooks need a more attractive cover and they need some exposure in the homeschooling community.

 

Let me know how it works out with your student converting and becoming Amish. Should be interesting for everyone involved!

 

And, yes, ESL is an entirely different ball of wax. I have experience in this area but not much actual skill.

 

I don't have cookies, but I have whole wheat bread rising :-) "Tea and toast" isn't all that bad, when it's homemade bread :-)

 

 

 

Homemade bread does make it less sad for the tea and toast lady.

 

It sounds to me from Lori's description and what is in the Art-Literature Readers, that they DO have this material, I think in the workbooks? Not sure why it's not credited, if that's the case. The authors studied appear to line up with the contents of the Art-Lit readers.

 

Too bad the people who sell it don't know more about it.

 

:iagree:

 

Lori,

 

Thanks for making the call and persevering. What a shame that they don't have a better handle on what the curriculum entails.

 

I've been pondering the McGuffeys curric. (Landmark), CtGE/R&S, and CLE Reading 4. I am also smitten with PLL and ILL right now :D. I'm not sure what direction to move in. I'm also sort of happy with R&S and it works fine for my oldest. I don't want a bunch of overlap in programs. For us, less is more and I get too bogged down if there are too many programs. Big sigh.

 

Less is more!!

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