Life of Fred Calculus as full course (+AP exam??)

[Tardis Girl]

Any math gurus have an opinion on this? I'm wondering if Life of Fred Calculus can be a stand alone calc course. My dd finished Alg2 through another publisher, which definitely included some trig (I've noticed that's not necessarily a given with Alg2). I didn't think of using LoF as a stand alone, but now am seriously considering it after seeing a couple of books in person. According to the website, LoF contains the following:

 

LoF Trig

Sines, Cosines and Tangents, Graphing, Significant Digits, Trig Functions of Any Angle, Trig Identities, Graphing a s inb(x + c), Radian Measurement, Conditional Trig Equations, Functions of Two Angles, Oblique Triangles, Inverse Trig Functions, Polar Coordinates, Polar Form of Complex Numbers, Preview of all of Calculus.

 

LoF Calculus "two years of college calculus" [but maybe more like 2 semester??]

Functions, Limits, Speed, Slope, Derivatives, Concavity, Trig, Related Rates, Curvature, Integrals, Area, Work, Centroids, Logs, Conics, Infinite Series, Solids of Revolution, Polar Coordinates, Hyperbolic Trig, Vectors, Partial Derivatives, Double Integrals, Vector Calculus, Differential Equations.

 

I'm wondering if she started Trig now, then did Calc, all with LoF, do you think that would prepare her for a Calc AP exam (BC? or maybe AB). I've read a few old threads on the boards here and while there was some discussion, I couldn't find people who had actually done it.

 

Thanks for any help!! :)

[Storm Bay]

I'm not a math guru, but I'm not sure if any of the math gurus have used this as a stand alone. LoF is the hands down favourite of my dd's, but it doesn't have as many practice problems as many other texts, so I'd take that into consideration before using it only and then doing an AP exam. I don't use it as a stand alone program, but I also like my dc to at least do some problems in other texts to see how they're doing. You may wish to use LoF and then have a more traditional text, one used for AP courses or something at that level & see how your dd does. Of course, the orders of the books may be different, so that may confuse things a bit in the beginning.

[kiana]

I have a friend (pretty smart guy) who tried to use LOF calculus for self-teaching and didn't think it was adequate. Found himself getting hopelessly confused and messaging me for help constantly. Switched to a standard textbook (stewart? something available cheaply on amazon) and did a lot better. Did love the LOF trig book though, thought that was plenty.

 

No personal experience as I learned my calculus before Stan started writing.

[Tardis Girl]

OK, these replies are both helpful -- thank you! Karin, do you have a preference/recommendation for a traditional text that your dd/you like? I thought about having her take tests from a more traditional text, and then using that to pinpoint trouble spots or missed areas. Do you think that would work?

[Jann in TX]

It is not that uncommon for some Trig to be included in an Algebra 2 class... BUT many times this is not adequate preparation for Calculus...

 

Even Foerster suggests that students who use his Algebra 2 with Trig text complete a full Pre-Calc program before moving on to Calculus...

 

VERY VERY few students can move from Algebra 2 into Calc.

 

Most Algebra 2 texts do not go into Algebra 3/College Algebra and the students miss out on advanced equation manipulation.

 

I guess I'm saying that you really need to consider working through a Pre-Calc text BEFORE moving on to Calc 1

 

By Pre-Calc I mean one semester of College Algebra and one semester of Trig

[Tardis Girl]

Ah, yes, good point Jann. She was going to start on LoF Trig first (following Alg2 that she's just finished, but before the LoF Calc). I guess I was assuming that between the LoF Trig and the early chapters of LoF Calc, that would essentially serve as a pre-calc course. This is what is covered in the full Trig and Calc through LoF:

 

LoF Trig

Sines, Cosines and Tangents, Graphing, Significant Digits, Trig Functions of Any Angle, Trig Identities, Graphing a s inb(x + c), Radian Measurement, Conditional Trig Equations, Functions of Two Angles, Oblique Triangles, Inverse Trig Functions, Polar Coordinates, Polar Form of Complex Numbers, Preview of all of Calculus.

 

LoF Calculus "two years of college calculus" [but maybe more like 2 semester??]

Functions, Limits, Speed, Slope, Derivatives, Concavity, Trig, Related Rates, Curvature, Integrals, Area, Work, Centroids, Logs, Conics, Infinite Series, Solids of Revolution, Polar Coordinates, Hyperbolic Trig, Vectors, Partial Derivatives, Double Integrals, Vector Calculus, Differential Equations.

 

Jann-- do you think that the Trig and early chapters of LoF Calc would be somewhat equivalent in terms of topics covered in a pre-calc course?

[In The Great White North]

The double integrals and differential equations, depending on how much of them LoF does, usually come after the standard first year calculus course.

[TravelingChris]

LOF Alg 2 goes beyond many ALg 2 programs. We are planning to finish Alg 2, move onto TRig and start LOF calc. Since she will be a senior this year, she will not finish Calc but we aren't looking to do AP test, but just do enough with her so that a Calculus course in college won't be so overwhelming.

[Storm Bay]

OK, these replies are both helpful -- thank you! Karin, do you have a preference/recommendation for a traditional text that your dd/you like? I thought about having her take tests from a more traditional text, and then using that to pinpoint trouble spots or missed areas. Do you think that would work?

 

 

We haven't done Calculus yet. We do have the LoF Trig book, which is an entire book devoted to trig, not just part of a course. Apparently, that's enough. I have one who has done Beginning Algebra & one who has done Geometry, both LoF. My eldest used the 1973 Dressler Geometry & Birkhoff & Beatley (I think that's right) to supplement Geometry, but she only did parts of those.

 

What my eldest plans to do is to do the LoF books on her own first, for fun, & then do whatever I make her do (usually with her input.) My middle dd wants to do only LoF, but I won't allow that, so she'll do those first for fun, too. This doesn't mean that they are bad books. I think they have many great things about them, and that some of these things are lacking in most textbooks. However, I'm reluctant to let them just use LoF when LoF is so new & doesn't have a long track record. Also, many students need to do more practise problems than you see in LoF.

[Tardis Girl]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their helpful replies. My DD does really like LoF, but is concerned there are too few problems. I think we'll go ahead and have Lial's alongside, perhaps as a gauge, perhaps more as we see how it goes. But then I'm thinking if she does want to aspire to the Calc AP, maybe she should have a different text?? Ugh, always so much to consider, and I *do* have a tendency to endlessly research every curriculum decision... no doubt to a fault, at times. lol

 

Anyway, thank you, ladies!

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their helpful replies. My DD does really like LoF, but is concerned there are too few problems. I think we'll go ahead and have Lial's alongside, perhaps as a gauge, perhaps more as we see how it goes. But then I'm thinking if she does want to aspire to the Calc AP, maybe she should have a different text?? Ugh, always so much to consider, and I *do* have a tendency to endlessly research every curriculum decision... no doubt to a fault, at times. lol

 

Anyway, thank you, ladies!

You mean we aren't supposed to research until bleary eyed and broke? :lol: From what I have read here I would probably use AoPS Calculus if she wants to take the Calculus AP exam but I haven't used it so I'm NOT an expert on it or anything. Just throwing it out there in case you want to do some more research ;)

[Tardis Girl]

Aack! What are you doing to me, Cheryl -- *another* option?! :banghead:

 

Ah, but I do appreciate it. :tongue_smilie:

[Storm Bay]

You mean we aren't supposed to research until bleary eyed and broke? :lol: From what I have read here I would probably use AoPS Calculus if she wants to take the Calculus AP exam but I haven't used it so I'm NOT an expert on it or anything. Just throwing it out there in case you want to do some more research ;)

 

 

The last thing I learned about AOPS is that you would want to supplement with some more traditional problems. That might not have been the Calculus book, though. You could go to the website of that organization that does the exams to see what texts they have approved. Not that you have to use one of those, but it could prove helpful.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

The last thing I learned about AOPS is that you would want to supplement with some more traditional problems. That might not have been the Calculus book, though. You could go to the website of that organization that does the exams to see what texts they have approved. Not that you have to use one of those, but it could prove helpful.

Are you talking about general use or for the AP tests? On their website it says that their books can be used as a complete curriculum or supplement.

[Storm Bay]

Are you talking about general use or for the AP tests? On their website it says that their books can be used as a complete curriculum or supplement.

 

 

I was referring to the previous question of whether or not you could use LoF & then take an AP exam, but then what to use if it isn't. Is AOPS on their list? Yes, their lists are for getting a course approved as an AP course, but you don't have to take an AP course to take the exam. It's just an easy place to find texts that you can be sure cover what you need for the exam.

 

We're going to use LOF and something else for my eldest, as our manner is. LOF may be enough, but since LOF is still very new & dd want's to go into science or math, I want to have other books in the mix. Actually, I'm not going to have her do Calculus at home; we're going to outsource that one, but she wants to do it with LOF first because she thinks those books are the cat's meow. (my archaic expression, not hers.)

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

I was referring to the previous question of whether or not you could use LoF & then take an AP exam, but then what to use if it isn't. Is AOPS on their list? Yes, their lists are for getting a course approved as an AP course, but you don't have to take an AP course to take the exam. It's just an easy place to find texts that you can be sure cover what you need for the exam.

 

We're going to use LOF and something else for my eldest, as our manner is. LOF may be enough, but since LOF is still very new & dd want's to go into science or math, I want to have other books in the mix. Actually, I'm not going to have her do Calculus at home; we're going to outsource that one, but she wants to do it with LOF first because she thinks those books are the cat's meow. (my archaic expression, not hers.)

 

I have no idea if AoPS on anyone's list. I was referring to this part of your previous post...

 

The last thing I learned about AOPS is that you would want to supplement with some more traditional problems. That might not have been the Calculus book, though. You could go to the website of that organization that does the exams to see what texts they have approved. Not that you have to use one of those, but it could prove helpful.

 

...wondering if you were talking about supplementing AoPS with more traditional problems specifically if you were going to use it for the AP exam or for general use. I was wondering that because on AoPS's website it says that it can be used as a complete curriculum or supplement.

[Laura in CA]

in the preface David Patrick (the author) says:

 

This book differs from a "mainstream" calculus book in two major ways:

 

1. A more rigorous presentation, including proofs where applicable ...

 

2. An assortment of nontrivial problems. This book has fewer routine "drill-and-kill" exercises than most calculus texts ...

 

Students who are preparing for college calculus placement examinations may wish to supplement their study with a test-preparation workbook. The key to success on such placement examinations is repetition of routine calculations, which this textbook largely eschews in favor of a variety of more difficult, non-routine problems.

 

Just fyi. If someone wanted to use AoPS Calculus to prepare for the AP exam (and my son may do just that, next year), obviously becoming familiar with the format of the AP exam would be imperative. (We have a book with old AP exams, and one of the test-prep guides.) But it sounds like the student would be more than prepared for the exam, knowledge-wise, after using the AoPS text.

 

Oh, also, I've always found the AoPS authors very receptive to questions via email. They also have very active forums on their website where people post all sorts of questions.

 

~Laura

[mumto2]

I am now asking myself the same question and there might be someone with experience now. Both my kids love Fred and don't care for Saxon, which I know is good for Calculus. Anyway I got AoPS 1 and 2 to supplement the LOF Calculus. Should I be using more?

 

Thank for any advice you can offer me.

[creekland]

I am now asking myself the same question and there might be someone with experience now. Both my kids love Fred and don't care for Saxon, which I know is good for Calculus. Anyway I got AoPS 1 and 2 to supplement the LOF Calculus. Should I be using more?

 

Thank for any advice you can offer me.

 

All I can say is my guy is using Thinkwell and enjoying it. We decided not to have him take the AP test as I'd rather he retake it in college for a hopefully easy A since he's going to be on the pre-med track.

 

The only experience I've heard of with LoF and AP concerns Stats. A student who had gotten mostly 5s and a couple of 4s on other AP tests bombed AP Stats when using just LoF. He thought it had prepared him well for Stats in general, but evidently, not the AP test. It's a different subject, but his experience swayed me away from considering LoF Calc since, at the time, we were unsure about taking the AP test. My guy used a different text to self-study Stats and got a 5 on that test last year. I'm pretty sure he could get a 5 on AP Calc this year (using Thinkwell) if we'd chosen that route. A handful of med schools don't want AP for Calc for med school entrance, so we've opted to redo the class at the 4 year he'll attend.