BJU, Notgrass or Sonlight for history?

[Love2Smile]

I need to decide for my 10th grader.

She likes to read, but I am afraid SL will be too much reading. We would plan on using Cores 7, 100 and 400, but I have heard 400 is very DIFFICULT to get thru.

I am considering Notgrass, and would like some reviews of their entire highschool levels.

 

And last but not least, BJU for a good history program, all highschool levels. Likes/Dislikes? Hated any???

(and if I cannot make up my mind, Lifepacs to get it done!)

[Love2Smile]

:lurk5:

[HollyDay]

You are funny!! We are doing LifePac next year for my 9th grader after looking at Notgrass, BJU, Abeka, and BF. So, my post might not encourage you much! :)

 

I've not seen Notgrass in person, but recently I spoke for some time with several curriculum advisors about the program. They all liked it, but said it is very ambitious. They recommended expanding it to cover 3 semesters instead of 2. It is a lot of material to cover they said. You could do US (or World) for all of 10th and 1st semester 11th; then World (or US) for 2nd semester 11th and all of 12th. I am planning to do this with my youngest starting in 9th grade. She is enjoys reading quite a bit. We will do government/econ in 12th.

 

My oldest is not a literature learner. We struggled to get through BF Jr. High US and World. She just wants a basic spine. We looked at several and nothing looked interesting to her, until she saw the LifePacs. We have done some electives from AOP so she is familiar with the style. She really liked the content, layout and approach of the program. So, being faced with Algebra 1 and BJU Biology, I said AOP was a great idea! :)

 

BJU is a solid history program. I think it is somewhat dry, but I personally prefer a literature approach. That is more my learning style. I don't think you would go wrong with using BJU if your dc likes a spine and that style.

 

For us, the Lifepacs just seemed to fit. Go figure, I never thought I'd use it for history! But, then again, I never thought my dc would ask for Saxon math either!!

Edited June 25, 2010 by HollyDay

[Love2Smile]

You are funny!! We are doing LifePac next year for my 9th grader after looking at Notgrass, BJU, Abeka, and BF. So, my post might not encourage you much! :)

 

I've not seen Notgrass in person, but recently I spoke for some time with several curriculum advisors about the program. They all liked it, but said it is very ambitious. They recommended expanding it to cover 3 semesters instead of 2. It is a lot of material to cover they said. You could do US (or World) for all of 10th and 1st semester 11th; then World (or US) for 2nd semester 11th and all of 12th. I am planning to do this with my youngest starting in 9th grade. She is enjoys reading quite a bit. We will do government/econ in 12th.

 

My oldest is not a literature learner. We struggled to get through BF Jr. High US and World. She just wants a basic spine. We looked at several and nothing looked interesting to her, until she saw the LifePacs. We have done some electives from AOP so she is familiar with the style. She really liked the content, layout and approach of the program. So, being faced with Algebra 1 and BJU Biology, I said AOP was a great idea! :)

 

BJU is a solid history program. I think it is somewhat dry, but I personally prefer a literature approach. That is more my learning style. I don't think you would go wrong with using BJU if your dc likes a spine and that style.

 

For us, the Lifepacs just seemed to fit. Go figure, I never thought I'd use it for history! But, then again, I never thought my dc would ask for Saxon math either!!

My oldest really struggles with math too, and I am afraid it may be taking a lot of our time this year. She will be attempting Alg.1 for the second time in 10th this year, and I don't want to be bogged down in a lit history program along with science, and writing/English KWIM?

 

So if you had to choose as to which is MORE interesting, would it be LifePacs or BJU history?

[1shortmomto4]

I've considered BJU American History (with the DVD) but I don't want the focus to be on memorizing dates, people and places and I think that is some of the focus when it comes to the tests and activities (could be wrong). If you like AOP style you might want to give PacWorks a look - it has a 2 year course called American History - The People, Places and Principles of America. It is very well done and gives a solid base for American History. Another option might be working through All American History (BrightIdeasPress) book 1 and 2 - either in one or two years. There is plenty of literature and activity suggestions to supplement if needed. This is a textbook style whereas the PacWorks is a "lifepac" style. Again, you could easily correlate some additional literature to read alongside as interest/time is available.

Heidi

[HollyDay]

Dd and I just had this conversation this morning. It is soooooo hot here, that we decided to pull our books out for next year and look through them. She is still very content with LifePacs. I asked her what she thought of them compared to BJU (since this thread was on my mind). She said she just didn't like BJU history. It was too dry. Lifepac will cover several topics and some geography. Overall, she is happy with her choice. Now, we have not done much work in it. I don't know if her opinion will change in Nov. And I did tell her I want to use the program throughout high school. I don't want to jump around. I think it was more process of elimination. She did not like the dryness of BJU and Abeka. She did not like the amount of reading for Notgrass or BF. I did not care for Sonlight, Omnibus, or TOG. So, when we looked at what was left, there was AOP's LifePacs!

[Alyce]

The author says the American and World History is supposed to be a year long course and that's what we found to be the case. There are 30 units with 5 lessons in each unit. Along with the history spine the student is to read a book to go along with what they are reading in History and they must write a 2-3 page every week on one of the three suggestions they give. The books take 1-2 weeks to read. The Government book is a 1/2 semester long with only the spine and source documents to read. There is no literature. My children found the History portion to be very easy to read and reading the books and doing the papers were no hardship either. According to the Author the book will count for 1 credit Bible, 1 credit History and 1 credit English. Most people agree that there is not enough biblical material to count it as a Bible credit. There is varying opinions on wether it is enough for English credit. Many people believe that since there is no grammar or literary analysis you must supplement these to thing to make it an English credit. Most do it my adding a couple of progeny press guides and a grammar portion, if they think their child needs it. I gave an English credit with what was incorporated. We did discuss the books as they were read and I felt that was sufficent but like I said many don't agree. There is a test and quiz book that you can buy seperately. It contains question for each lesson to check comprehension and a test each week as well as quarterly tests. Personally I found the weekly test to be a joke (they consist of 10 questions in multiple choice format) The quarterly tests are much more difficult and thats where I got my grades from. My son like the American and World History but didn't care much for the Government course. He said it was too light and came at it with a very conservative christian format. He would have liked more detail and less christian emphasis. The author as well as most people will tell you to start with World History. The books are a little easier to read. With American History the books get harder and they add in a source books. Which many people, including myself, thinks this makes it a good history program. My kids also likes the fact that it was written in a conversational style instead of "these are the facts just the facts" style. Some people do drag the course out to 2 years and choose to do that by supplementing the History with things like Teaching Company videos and more reading and more literature analysis so it can be done over 2 years if you want to go into more depth.

[Susan C.]

I have looked at all three, Notgrass seemed ambitious to us as well. BJU is dry, and the tests are what I call "fact crams." DD did BJU World for six chapters this year, it is dry, and she had to study HOURS to do well on their tests. Out of the three, I would do Lifepak as well. (We are doing All American).

[Love2Smile]

I have looked at all three, Notgrass seemed ambitious to us as well. BJU is dry, and the tests are what I call "fact crams." DD did BJU World for six chapters this year, it is dry, and she had to study HOURS to do well on their tests. Out of the three, I would do Lifepak as well. (We are doing All American).

Did you add anything to the All American History for your highschooler?

[Love2Smile]

I really appreciate your input on these. My older one will continue with either Sonlight or Beautiful Feet, because she insists on a lit program.

 

My younger one LOVES textbooks and will not work with anything else, so I think BJU may be perfect for her, she is a strictly give me the facts kinda girl and has a memory like a steel trap. Hates to read lit though, amazing how opposite they are!

[Susan C.]

I just bought All American for next year. I'm going to have dd do the extra high school questions that are in the workbook, and read a few whole books.

 

Ds did BJU, he has an incredible memory. He had no trouble with the tests, aced them with no trouble. But, he says the text was very dry and he doesn't remember anything he did in BJU (he is in college now). He also did Beautiful Feet, and says he liked that much better (and says he remembers what he read in BF). Dd is BF resistant, LOL. She reads much slower, so All American and a few books will probably be better for her.

[Love2Smile]

I just bought All American for next year. I'm going to have dd do the extra high school questions that are in the workbook, and read a few whole books.

 

Ds did BJU, he has an incredible memory. He had no trouble with the tests, aced them with no trouble. But, he says the text was very dry and he doesn't remember anything he did in BJU (he is in college now). He also did Beautiful Feet, and says he liked that much better (and says he remembers what he read in BF). Dd is BF resistant, LOL. She reads much slower, so All American and a few books will probably be better for her.

Susan,

For your dd, what do you have planned for her highschool history besides AAH?

[Susan C.]

Susan,

For your dd, what do you have planned for her highschool history besides AAH?

 

For 9th grade, we did BJU Geography. For 10th, we did world history. We did Streams of Civilization up to Renaissance, then BJU World History for six chapters (up to Industrial Revolution), Human Odyssey for two chapters. Then, totally burned out BTW, we did Story of the World, Vol. 4 with the activity book. It had maps and outlines and a few activities. The last option went by far the best. The textbooks were crammed with facts, and miserable to do. I liked Human Odyssey the best, the questions were great, but I couldn't even imagine doing that all year (it is 1100 pages, I found we would need around two weeks a chapter, so maybe stretched out over two years and ditching the geography would work). But, HO was on the difficult side, a stretch for us. We have always had texts with fact recall. The critical thinking was good for awhile, but a steady diet of it, I'm not sure. Since dd got more out of SOTW, that is why I decided to do All American. I can get more analyzing out of her when the reading is easier to get. So, in 11th grade, she will do All American History. For 12th, we will do BJU American Govt. one semester, and something else for economics (or do Dave Ramsey's high school personal finance course).

 

Part of the problem with textbooks is that there is not a "teacher talk." So, the kid gets one chance to figure out the information from the text. No one to bring attention to certain things, no one to tie the information to what happened before. I think it is too much to expect the kid to do all of that. So, I am trying an easier text to see if things go better.

 

HTH :)

[Donna A.]

The author says the American and World History is supposed to be a year long course and that's what we found to be the case. There are 30 units with 5 lessons in each unit. Along with the history spine the student is to read a book to go along with what they are reading in History and they must write a 2-3 page every week on one of the three suggestions they give. The books take 1-2 weeks to read. The Government book is a 1/2 semester long with only the spine and source documents to read. There is no literature. My children found the History portion to be very easy to read and reading the books and doing the papers were no hardship either. According to the Author the book will count for 1 credit Bible, 1 credit History and 1 credit English. Most people agree that there is not enough biblical material to count it as a Bible credit. There is varying opinions on wether it is enough for English credit. Many people believe that since there is no grammar or literary analysis you must supplement these to thing to make it an English credit. Most do it my adding a couple of progeny press guides and a grammar portion, if they think their child needs it. I gave an English credit with what was incorporated. We did discuss the books as they were read and I felt that was sufficent but like I said many don't agree. There is a test and quiz book that you can buy seperately. It contains question for each lesson to check comprehension and a test each week as well as quarterly tests. Personally I found the weekly test to be a joke (they consist of 10 questions in multiple choice format) The quarterly tests are much more difficult and thats where I got my grades from. My son like the American and World History but didn't care much for the Government course. He said it was too light and came at it with a very conservative christian format. He would have liked more detail and less christian emphasis. The author as well as most people will tell you to start with World History. The books are a little easier to read. With American History the books get harder and they add in a source books. Which many people, including myself, thinks this makes it a good history program. My kids also likes the fact that it was written in a conversational style instead of "these are the facts just the facts" style. Some people do drag the course out to 2 years and choose to do that by supplementing the History with things like Teaching Company videos and more reading and more literature analysis so it can be done over 2 years if you want to go into more depth.

 

This is a great description of Notgrass, or at least the World History set (which we have). But to those who referred to Notgrass as "very ambitious", I have to disagree. I actually found it to be quite light, and that's why we immediately switched to MFW which uses Notgrass WH spread out over two years... with a lot of other stuff added in. I didn't think the Bible in Notgrass was worth a full credit, and even the history and English were "iffy". There's no grammar or writing instruction... there is a lot of writing (both daily and weekly assignments), but no instruction. The history isn't very in-depth at all, and while some of the recommended literature does help add to the history, a lot of the literature is more "worldview" reading than history.

 

I think that Notgrass is great if you KNOW your child isn't college-bound. I like the material itself. But since we don't know yet that my dd isn't going to college, I'd rather assume that she IS going and be prepared. Notgrass isn't college-prep material, IMO. Or maybe it's fine to meet the requirement for a student who's more math and science oriented and won't spend much time in history and literature, anyway.

 

Thus, I think that Notgrass is good for a student who doesn't love to read a lot. My dd doing MFW (w/Notgrass) is an avid reader... so Notgrass by itself was just too light for her. But my 2nd isn't that way, and Notgrass is one of my choices for her in high school. I think I could even eliminate some of the recommended lit titles for her and she'd still be fine.

[vmsurbat]

While I certainly wouldn't call Notgrass History "very ambitious", I do believe it is "college-prep" worthy. (FTR, I have Notgrass World, American, and Gov't). While the textbooks themselves are less dense than a BJU textbook, the addition of the primary source readings and other meaty books definitely increases its "college-prep" worthiness. The previous poster mentioned that the other readings are more worldview-oriented than history-oriented. I agree and think that is a very good slant to incorporate into a high school level history program.... My children have gone through the history cycle twice before high school and *don't* need a program to "learn history facts" so much as a program to "make them think about the meaning/outcomes/consequences of choices" to be discovered/pondered through a study of history.

 

Also, I consider Notgrass to be a (meaty) history credit only.... We will be using Greenleaf Press Anc. Literature guide to round out our English credit this year...

 

Lastly, FWIW, two of my children have gone on to college. I sat in on my daughter's freshman honors colloquiem (sp?) which consisted of three professors team teaching World History/Lit/Art. It was a fabulous, challenging class. All the background schema the professor expected the students to already know regarding history had been well-covered in MOH 1 and 2. That experience helped me to see that it is more important for our high schoolers to have the big picture and ideas of history than the nitpicky details. (Not that these are mutually exclusive).

[Donna A.]

The previous poster mentioned that the other readings are more worldview-oriented than history-oriented. I agree and think that is a very good slant to incorporate into a high school level history program....

 

I actually do agree with this, and we're doing the same.

 

Lastly, FWIW, two of my children have gone on to college. I sat in on my daughter's freshman honors colloquiem (sp?) which consisted of three professors team teaching World History/Lit/Art. It was a fabulous, challenging class. All the background schema the professor expected the students to already know regarding history had been well-covered in MOH 1 and 2. That experience helped me to see that it is more important for our high schoolers to have the big picture and ideas of history than the nitpicky details. (Not that these are mutually exclusive).

 

That is encouraging!

 

And like I said, I only have the World History from Notgrass. I've heard that American is a step or two up, and it's recommended that World be done first.

[HollyDay]

Just a quick note of planning with Notgrass..... I was planning on using Notgrass for history credit only, not english and bible and history. I would be doing those subjects separately with different curriculum.

[tvaleri]

Hey there-

 

I have seen Notgrass and didn't care for it. Done Sonlight in the past. This year we worked (and I mean worked) through TOG Y3. Wowza! It was the most challenging year so far. But, my 7th grader commented how much he'd learned-always a plus =D I like to study history as a whole, not segregating American from World.

With TOG, you can assign the beginning level (recommended for 1st timers) or in-depth readings. There are directions on how to cut poetry and reading assignments so tailoring the curricula is do-able.

Your student would definitely be prepared for college through both the readings, discussions, and thinking!

 

Smiles,

Teresa