Help with science

[mjbucks1]

I have a question about sequence/curriculum for science. I was a biology/bichemistry major in college, and hold a Masters in Physical Therapy degree, so one would think science would not be a problem :D.

My 12 year old son has completed Apologia's general and physical science books, and has started the biology book this summer (he loves science, so we are doing it year round). He will be technically be entering 8th grade this fall. I would like him to be able to take at least 2 AP science tests (and he is also in agreement). I know there has been debate on these forums as to Apologia being rigorous enough, but I do feel it is a very good introduction to high school science. I think I would like to use at least the first book for chemistry as well because my son loves the books. My question is, where should I go from there and what sequence? Should I do the Apologia Chemistry book, and then switch to a college text (and if so, which one?) and then plan on him taking the AP chemistry exam. Should I then have him take AP biology (which I think would be his 10th grade year), and then move on to physics (and which texts are good texts?) He could also take AP courses online as well, but then we would be limited to a traditional school year schedule. (BTW, math will not be an issue as he has just finished algebra I and is moving on to algbra II). I would really appreciate help with sequencing and texts (I don't want to over load him with a college text too quickly, but I do want to challenge him :))

[mjbucks1]

Anyone have any opinions??? Would love to hear some ideas :)

[2cents]

:bigear:

I'd like to see what others say too. We'll probably just have the girls enroll at the college and take college level science courses.

[In The Great White North]

Ds did Apologia Bio, Apologia Chem, Conceptual Physics, Halliday Physics.

 

Dd(1) will not do the same thing. She did AP Chem for 9th. 10,11 and 12 are still under discussion.

 

Dd(2) is going into 8th and might do bio (then again she might not) Totally unplanned so far.

 

There's a lot of variety on this, even on these boards. The only consensus seems to be that AP Bio requires previous chem experience and AP Physics requires calculus.

 

Because bio has so much chem in it these days, some people are starting with physics (algebra based), then chem, then bio, then an AP. There's a lot to be said for that.

 

If you search on any of these textbooks, you'll get several threads discussing their pros and cons.

 

If you use a bio program that is bio-chem light (like Apologia), then you can do it first, because it doesn't need as much math as the others. I think this is why schools used to do bio first. (When I was in high school, biology didn't have any chemistry in it.)

 

Here are some textbooks that are mentioned frequently (not an all inclusive list):

 

common 1st year bio books:

Apologia

Miller/Levine

 

 

common 2nd year Bio books:

"big" Campbell

Apologia Advanced Biology (Anatomy and Physiology)

 

common 1st year chem books

Apologia

 

 

common 2nd year chem books:

Zumdahl

Brown/Lemay

Chang

Apologia Advanced Chemistry

 

common 1st year Physics books (algebra based):

Conceptual Physics by Paul Hewitt

Apologia Physics

Apologia Advanced Physics

 

 

common 2nd year physics (calculus based)

Physics by Halliday, Resnick, Walker

 

Prentice Hall is also mentioned frequently and Saxon Physics.

[mcconnellboys]

I do not use Apologia, but I do think it's perfectly sound. If you like it, could you use their AP chemistry and bio? I believe they have both those. Hewitt's Conceptual Physics is also very good, but might not include enough math if you're aiming for AP. Of course, you could always get the AP chem prep book and specifically study for what you'd need for the test. Thinkwell has very good video instruction. I'm sure Teaching Company has good programming for chemistry, although I don't recall specific titles. Other than that, you're looking at some of the standard chemistry texts that GWN has already mentioned.

 

Home Science Tools carries lots of chemistry products that you might need for labs, including some complete lab sets.

[Hunter's Moon]

I have just started Apologia Chemistry on Monday, but it is so much better than I expected! I love it and enjoy doing it.

 

What I plan on doing, at the rate I plan, I will finish by April/May and then I will use an AP Chem book I have. It is made to prepare students for the AP Chemistry test. I will use it as review and such.

[mjbucks1]

Thank you all for your replies. GWN, your list was quite helpful. I do think we will look at one the other advanced books to prepare for the AP biology exam, but we will do chemistry frist. I will plan on physics last to make sure he has a solid foundation in calculus. Thank you so much for the help :)

[Nissi]

Here is what my dc. has done so far in Math and Science.

Ds.1 completed :

Apologia Bio, Adv. Bio, Chem, and Physics in Gr. 7, 8, and 9 and will be doing AP Chem. online this year in 10th grade. He will be 15 this fall. Adv. Bio. was spread out over the years. In Math he completed Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II and Trig, and will be doing Precalculus in the fall.

Ds. 2 completed Apologia General Science in Gr. 5 and Prentice Hall Physical Science in Gr. 6. He will move on to Apologia Bio. in the fall. For Math he has finished up the first half of Foerster's Algebra I and will be starting up with the second half in the fall.

My plan is to do AP Sciences online in highschool mostly through PA Homeschoolers.

HTH!

[Teachin'Mine]

I can't speak from experience yet, but we are using Apologia and also plan to do one or more of their advanced texts towards the goal of AP. Dd is completing physical science this year, and will do physics in 9th. We got behind in science, so she's going through the chapters at a fast pace now to finish up the year. She's actually finding it easier this way since she doesn't have a lot of review to do for the test since she read all of the material within the past few days. So based on this, I'm hoping that she'll complete next year's science book in less than a year and can maybe consider doing the advanced book. But all of that remains to be seen. If she only does one book a year, then she'll be doing the advanced bio only and hopefully taking the AP test.

 

There's another thread discussing the Apologia chemistry and following it up with a different chemistry text in prep for the AP test. That may give you another idea too.

 

To answer your original question, and again this isn't from experience, I think it would make sense to do the advanced text right after the Apologia text so there isn't too long of a gap. I have heard of students doubling up on science in order to get more courses in too - as in regular bio and regular chemistry one year, and then the advanced courses in both the next. I think a lot of it depends on how motivated the student is and what their goals are.

 

I think Nissi has the right idea with starting them off in the texts at a younger age. I wish I had known about Apologia before this year.

[mjbucks1]

Nissi, and Teachin'Mine,

You have both given me ideas to ponder. I did start ds "early" with Apologia, but am realizing he probably could have started sooner. He is very young for his "grade"...he won't be 13 until this fall and is entering 8th grade. But he LOVES the Apologia and science, so that is why we are doing science year round. I may also go the online route for AP classes. I did think it would make sense to go from biology to AP Biology, but I do think he will need chemistry first. So my plan is for him to finish biology and chemistry by the end of 8th grade. Then take AP chemistry for 9th, AP biology for 10th, physics for 11th, and AP physics for 12th.

For math we are starting AoPS this summer, Saxon Algebra II this year (8th grade), advanced math 9th grade (Saxon incorporates geometry and this may take a little longer than a year, so we will see), then calculus 10th grade, followed by AP Calculus BC for 11th grade. I am saving AP Physics for last to make sure he has a good grasp of calculus :) I figure he can then possibly take a college course his senior year. Does this seem like a good plan?

We also just received his ACT scores (he took it in June for practice). He received a 21 in science (56th percentile), which I thought was decent. Math was a 19, which I thought could have been a lttle higher, but he has only had algebra. His reading was 20 (again, he is a strong reader so I thought this would be a little higher), and his English was a 27!!!! Rod and Staff works..LOL!!! His overall was a 22 (59th percentile), so I think he did a decent job and is capable of being pushed. Any other thoughts would be welcomed :)

[Brindee]

Nissi, and Teachin'Mine,

You have both given me ideas to ponder. I did start ds "early" with Apologia, but am realizing he probably could have started sooner. He is very young for his "grade"...he won't be 13 until this fall and is entering 8th grade. But he LOVES the Apologia and science, so that is why we are doing science year round. I may also go the online route for AP classes. I did think it would make sense to go from biology to AP Biology, but I do think he will need chemistry first. So my plan is for him to finish biology and chemistry by the end of 8th grade. Then take AP chemistry for 9th, AP biology for 10th, physics for 11th, and AP physics for 12th.

For math we are starting AoPS this summer, Saxon Algebra II this year (8th grade), advanced math 9th grade (Saxon incorporates geometry and this may take a little longer than a year, so we will see), then calculus 10th grade, followed by AP Calculus BC for 11th grade. I am saving AP Physics for last to make sure he has a good grasp of calculus :) I figure he can then possibly take a college course his senior year. Does this seem like a good plan?

We also just received his ACT scores (he took it in June for practice). He received a 21 in science (56th percentile), which I thought was decent. Math was a 19, which I thought could have been a lttle higher, but he has only had algebra. His reading was 20 (again, he is a strong reader so I thought this would be a little higher), and his English was a 27!!!! Rod and Staff works..LOL!!! His overall was a 22 (59th percentile), so I think he did a decent job and is capable of being pushed. Any other thoughts would be welcomed :)

So, your ds is a year "ahead" like my dd, who turned 13 this Spring and is a rising 9th grader. I haven't had her take any tests yet. Do you think it's helpful at this age? I may have her take it early, but may wait 'til 10th, to let her get a little more mileage behind her. :001_smile:

[Teachin'Mine]

Michelle it sounds like your ds is on a similar path to my dd. If she had stayed in school, she'd be going into 8th instead of 9th. She was either going to be one of the youngest or one of the older ones, and because of full day Kindergarten (and naps), we chose the later. She's also using Saxon and has completed algebra I and II with a year of HM geometry in between. I like the way your plan looks for math for high school. I've been trying to figure out how ours will look, but there's too many undecideds at this point to know. Like you, I don't know if advanced math will take one year, or two. She has already had the formal geometry proofs and all, but it's been a year, and we found them time consuming. I've been thinking of maybe following that book with Saxon physics. She'll do Apologia physics next year for science, and the Saxon should follow that nicely. I guess I'm trying to prolong when she starts calculus because, if she does advanced in one year, she'll only be a sophomore when taking it and there's a long time between then and college. She can follow it up with cc calculus classes, but if she decides on a math major, she'll probably have to retake those at the college level anyway. I'm trying to figure out if she could do advanced math - followed by Saxon physics - followed by statistics and math based logic - and then into calculus.

 

For science, we're using Apologia, and she's done physical science this year and will do physics in 9th, chemistry in 10th, biology in 11th and advanced biology in 12th. That's the plan as of now anyway, but if she likes chemistry a lot, we may do the advanced in that. We don't do anything year round - well not on purpose anyway. :lol: Your plan for science looks really good.

 

I also think you may have a better idea doing the calculus before the physics so he can take the more advanced sat II physics test which requires calculus. I'm hoping I'll have a better idea what to do by the end of next year. :tongue_smilie:

[mjbucks1]

Brindee,

In Ohio we must either test or have the children's portfolio assessed by a teacher each year. Tetsing has just been easier. My ds has been in the 96th-99th percentile on the ITBS for a while, so last year I had him take the Explore test (for 8th graders) and he scored very well on it. I had him take the ACT this year because I thought it would be good practice, and might give me a little more useful information. I think the more practice a child can have, before it really counts, the better. Hopefully this will also allow me to assess how my ds is retaining what he is learning from year to year. I plan on having ds take both the SAT and ACT next year. I also want to add that my ds does not get stressed with tests, which I think is important to note. I definately would not want to put him in a situation that causes increased anxiety (and of course he knows that it is all just practice right now :)).

[mjbucks1]

Teachin' Mine,

Trying to figure out the best seqence can be so difficult :confused:. And I have had the same concerns with ds being so far ahead in math. I read somewhere (and of course I can't remember where) that more than anything colleges like to see a student well prepared in math because it is a big predictor of how they will do in college. (That being said, I only had through pre-calculus in high school and graduated from college with honors, so obviously that is not the case across the board). Anyway, that is why I am just going to keep plugging away in math with all of my children, no matter how far ahead they get. I figure even if they have to re-take classes in college, it will be so much easier for them.

I definately like your idea of Saxon Physics. I haven't figured out exactly what we will use yet, but I think this would be a good foundation.

This planning is so hard for me. Up until last year I just planned year by year, with just a general grasp of the big picture. Now I must have a more concrete plan in order to complete the goals we have set :)