Jennefer@SSA Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 I finished Quixote! :) It took me much longer than I anticipated but I am done. :001_smile: I summarized every.single.chapter along the way and kept notes of just about every character in the entire book. But I am completely new at literature analysis and trying to figure one thing out. I know that Don Quixote is the protagonist but I think a case can be made one of two ways for the antagonist. 1. Don Quixote is also the antagonist. He so desires this life of chivalry and has lost of his own sanity to the point that is continually endangering himself. 2. The priest and Sanson Carrasco pull him out of his otherwise blissful world he has created for himself. Help :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonia Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 I just finished reading this a few weeks ago and I'm still working through the three levels of inquiry a la WEM. Like you, I'm new to literary analysis and I'm finding that this is really stretching my mind! I'd consider Quixote's friends as the antagonists in book 1. He wants to live a life as a knight errant and they want him to return home. But I'm also considering looking at the two parts of Quixote as two separate books. If you look at them separately I've been considering Sancho and Sanson as antagonists in book 2. Quixote's main goal is to release Dulcinea from her enchantment and he believes that Sancho is the one standing in the way. And Sanson is the one who orders him to return home, so he's an obvious antagonist. But, like you, I'm new to this! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 I finished Quixote! :) It took me much longer than I anticipated but I am done. :001_smile: I summarized every.single.chapter along the way and kept notes of just about every character in the entire book. Jennefer, Jennefer, give me a minute! I'm only starting chapter 4! And I haven't been doing anything as edifying as summarizing or taking notes... I was going to give myself points for finally reading the darn thing and call it good. Now you want me to up my game??? :tongue_smilie: I did just finish Deconstructing Penguins last night, so the whole protagonist/antagonist thing is fresh in my head, but the first three chapters of DQ have given me no insight yet. Sigh... even if I met my goal of a chapter a day (already slipping), this thing could take me half a year to finish... Do you mind waiting a bit for the discussion?? :D PS. Didn't you minor in Spanish too? Inquiring minds want to know in which language you tackled the beast... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Jennefer, Jennefer, give me a minute! I'm only starting chapter 4! And I haven't been doing anything as edifying as summarizing or taking notes... I was going to give myself points for finally reading the darn thing and call it good. Now you want me to up my game??? :tongue_smilie: I did just finish Deconstructing Penguins last night, so the whole protagonist/antagonist thing is fresh in my head, but the first three chapters of DQ have given me no insight yet. Sigh... even if I met my goal of a chapter a day (already slipping), this thing could take me half a year to finish... Do you mind waiting a bit for the discussion?? :D PS. Didn't you minor in Spanish too? Inquiring minds want to know in which language you tackled the beast... :) Yes, I minored in Spanish (you must have an incredible memory to remember that!) but I definitely read it in English! I would still be on book 1 if I read it in Spanish looking up all the words I don't remember from my college days. ;) I summarized each chapter based on the directions in TWEM and even though it slowed me down I am so glad I took the time to do so. I got to the end of the book and really can remember much more than I expected I would. I even made a 92% on the Sparks Note test!!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 I just finished reading this a few weeks ago and I'm still working through the three levels of inquiry a la WEM. Like you, I'm new to literary analysis and I'm finding that this is really stretching my mind! I'd consider Quixote's friends as the antagonists in book 1. He wants to live a life as a knight errant and they want him to return home. But I'm also considering looking at the two parts of Quixote as two separate books. If you look at them separately I've been considering Sancho and Sanson as antagonists in book 2. Quixote's main goal is to release Dulcinea from her enchantment and he believes that Sancho is the one standing in the way. And Sanson is the one who orders him to return home, so he's an obvious antagonist. But, like you, I'm new to this! :001_smile: This was similar to my original conclusion until I read somewhere else about man vs. himself being a common thread in classic literature. It made me think about the fact that at one point in his life Quixote must have been lucid and sane. It was his desire to return to chivalry and reading all his books on knight errantry that caused him to lost his sanity. And losing his sanity put him in all sorts of danger that on multiple occasions could've killed him. Can there be more than one antagonist? :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 This was similar to my original conclusion until I read somewhere else about man vs. himself being a common thread in classic literature. It made me think about the fact that at one point in his life Quixote must have been lucid and sane. It was his desire to return to chivalry and reading all his books on knight errantry that caused him to lost his sanity. And losing his sanity put him in all sorts of danger that on multiple occasions could've killed him. Can there be more than one antagonist? :tongue_smilie: Have you read Deconstructing Penguins? Although it's about children's lit, I was very intrigued by its method of finding these things out - how choosing a protagonist/antagonist in a book will lead you to its main conflict and theme, and if what falls out doesn't seem right, you've probably chosen the wrong protagonist/antagonist... fascinating stuff! When I have time later I want to post a thread to discuss this method vs. the Socratic method used in Teaching the Classics (which I'm also trying to get through). Hey, maybe by the time I finish Quixote I'll have a clue! Maybe.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 I thought the antagonist was either literature itself or else his imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 I thought the antagonist was either literature itself or else his imagination. I am realizing (I think...still new to this so could easily be wrong) that determining the antagonist is directly related to determing what exactly it is that Quixote wants. If what he most wants is Dulcinea then you can argue for one conclusion. If he most wants to continue life as a knight errant you can argue another. If sanity is what he most wants (even though he doesn't realize it) then still yet another. So I guess the question first is...what is it that Don Quixote really, really wants most of all? :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Have you read Deconstructing Penguins? Although it's about children's lit, I was very intrigued by its method of finding these things out - how choosing a protagonist/antagonist in a book will lead you to its main conflict and theme, and if what falls out doesn't seem right, you've probably chosen the wrong protagonist/antagonist... fascinating stuff! When I have time later I want to post a thread to discuss this method vs. the Socratic method used in Teaching the Classics (which I'm also trying to get through). Hey, maybe by the time I finish Quixote I'll have a clue! Maybe.... I have read DP but thinking I need to pull it out again to review. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 He wants a land of enchantment. He wants what he's read about, knighthood and adventure. At least, that's my take. It's been YEARS since I had to analyze literature though :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmama4 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Although I haven't read the entire book. My dh was reassigned and the move was hectic. In saying that, what I did read my take on Quixote the man was egotistical. Am I the only one to think so? This post is inspiring to read the rest however, egotistical or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 He wants a land of enchantment. He wants what he's read about, knighthood and adventure. At least, that's my take. It's been YEARS since I had to analyze literature though :p Then if that's the case the priest (in bk 1 when he brings him home in a cage after convincing Quixote he is enchanted) and Sanson Carrasco (bk 2 after pretending to be the Knight of the White Moon defeats DQ and sends him home) would be the antagonists b/c they are the ones who bring him home and out of this land of enchantment and the adventure that he most wants. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in AL Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I haven't read the book, but I think the protagonist can also be the antagonist in the book too. Like you said, "Man vs. Himself." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Except that they aren't really causing the problems. The books are what drive him out on his adventures. The stories and his vivid imagination (that allows common things to become uncommon). I did not read book two, I was just happy to make it through book one, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Except that they aren't really causing the problems. The books are what drive him out on his adventures. The stories and his vivid imagination (that allows common things to become uncommon).John Barth has an interesting take on this in The Tidewater Tales, in which Quixote is one of a handful literary themed elements woven throughout novel. There's a single episode in the two volumes of Quixote in which Quixote's world is permitted to become fully realized: the Cave of Montesinos. Whether you interpret the text as saying that Quixote was asleep throughout entire adventure or not, in Barth's words "of all the knight's encounters with the apparently marvelous, this is the only one unrefuted by reality." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwj Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Don Quijote is one of my favorite books! ( and I happened to have been a spanish lit major). Of course there would be different views; mine would be that the antagonist is Spanish society which had turned the back on chivalry and christendom. I would say it was a commentary on the changing of worlds sort of like Gulliver's travels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 Don Quijote is one of my favorite books! ( and I happened to have been a spanish lit major). Of course there would be different views; mine would be that the antagonist is Spanish society which had turned the back on chivalry and christendom. I would say it was a commentary on the changing of worlds sort of like Gulliver's travels. Thank you! I don't think I would have come to anything like that on my own. I have been thinking about this all weekend. I am a very black and white person - it is this or it is that! I am going to have to come terms with the shades of gray in literature analysis that exist. So is it okay for me to come up with who I believe is the antagonist as long as I can back that up with examples from the book? I had pretty much decided that this was a case of Man vs. Himself b/c in his quest for what he most wanted he filled his mind with so many tales of chivalry that he lost his grip on reality. He was his own greatest enemy. A pp said that the literature itself could be the antagonist. But I wonder, isn't that absolving Quixote of the responsibility that he has to safegaurd himself against society? It sort of reminds me today of the "victim mentality" that so many talk about being so prevalent in society. Is blaming the literature a cop out? I still have more questions than answers but I am loving the process. It is stretching me. I appreciate everyone who has chimed in and helped guide me thorough these steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohdanigirl Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Ooooh I have DQ upstairs in Spanish, and plan to begin this week. I have read it in English, but that was quite a while ago. I figured I would read it in Spanish since I intend to have my dc do so before graduating from hs. My oldest is only going into 6th. Hope I have enough time to finish.:lol: Danielle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Ooooh I have DQ upstairs in Spanish, and plan to begin this week. I have read it in English, but that was quite a while ago. I figured I would read it in Spanish since I intend to have my dc do so before graduating from hs. My oldest is only going into 6th. Hope I have enough time to finish.:lol: Hey, I just started this in Spanish! Swimmermom's supposed to be joining me, but I don't think she has her book yet. I need buddies or I'm going to stall!! Join us? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Don Quijote is one of my favorite books! ( and I happened to have been a spanish lit major). Of course there would be different views; mine would be that the antagonist is Spanish society which had turned the back on chivalry and christendom. I would say it was a commentary on the changing of worlds sort of like Gulliver's travels. Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Wow. Could I ask you to tell more about that wow? Agree? Disagree? Why for either. Wish I could invite you all over for coffee and talk about this in person. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Could I ask you to tell more about that wow? Agree? Disagree? Why for either. Wish I could invite you all over for coffee and talk about this in person. :) I thought it was an astute observation. Like I wrote before, it's been ages since I had to dissect literature... My brain is trying to warm up to the task :p It doesn't help that I read this in January. :lol: I do like a wider approach to the antagonist. The idea that it is society that has made men like Quixote is very compelling. It's like coming across a gladiator that is stuck working construction. The argument, imo, would be that some men are meant for greatness, for knighthood and chilvary. Don Quixote was, but society had moved on and for him, the only chance at happiness was in his imagination. Really, consider the woman he met at the one hotel. She made her money working the oldest proffession (if memory serves) and he treated her with gallantry and respect. It's hard to call a man's delusions a problem when he's behaving in such an admirable way. Ugh, I need more coffee ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 I thought it was an astute observation. Like I wrote before, it's been ages since I had to dissect literature... My brain is trying to warm up to the task :p It doesn't help that I read this in January. :lol: I do like a wider approach to the antagonist. The idea that it is society that has made men like Quixote is very compelling. It's like coming across a gladiator that is stuck working construction. The argument, imo, would be that some men are meant for greatness, for knighthood and chilvary. Don Quixote was, but society had moved on and for him, the only chance at happiness was in his imagination. Really, consider the woman he met at the one hotel. She made her money working the oldest proffession (if memory serves) and he treated her with gallantry and respect. It's hard to call a man's delusions a problem when he's behaving in such an admirable way. Ugh, I need more coffee ;) Yes, when his delusions cause him to behave in this manner they are no problem. It's those times when he puts himself (or Sancho) in such great danger that the problems exists. So his delusions are sometimes good and sometimes bad. I will say though that in his imaginary world he never truly helped anyone - or at least no one is coming to mind off the top of my head. Unless you count the prisoners he released but I wouldn't say that was ultimately for good. Good for them - not for society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shehmeth Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Hi- Have you read a book called: Deconstructing the hero: literary theory and children's literature By Margery Hourihan? Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Hi- Have you read a book called: Deconstructing the hero: literary theory and children's literature By Margery Hourihan? Kate Hey Kate~ I was hoping you might weigh in. :) I haven't heard of this book at all. Off to check Amazon! Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Oh holy cow! $51 on Amazon. Not going to make it into my Amazon cart anytime soon. Wanna give me some hints to help me make a final decision? :D:D:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shehmeth Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Jennefer, Check it out in Google Books - you can read a lot of it - enough to get some good ideas.... I don't have it... but the Library here use to carry it... umm not sure if they still do: Mental Note: check the library and see if the book is still available for check out.... Now, I haven't read it cover to cover though - but skimmed here and there - it has some good points about the protagonists and antagonists in general.... Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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