creekland Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 OK, we're at college orientation now (more on that when we get home). My son took his Spanish placement test today and just missed the cut off for intermediate Spanish 100% due to having learned Latin American Spanish instead of the European Spanish they teach here. The director suggested he start in beginning Spanish instead of getting lost with the differences in intermediate, but I'm wondering if there's a way he can study up a little bit over the next two months, then try the placement test again to see if it's better or not. He's already double majoring (not Spanish), so if he could save the class time it would be very helpful. Is Breaking the Barrier Spanish European style? If not, is there a book that is that you would recommend? Any other suggestions? For what it's worth, I'm VERY disappointed they don't offer Latin American Spanish as that's where my son wants to work after graduation... but... we figure some Spanish is better than none I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Can't he just study up on the vosotros form? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Can't he just study up on the vosotros form? :iagree: That's really the big difference. That's why I won't use any curriculum that doesn't teach it. It's easy not to use it, but heaven forbid you end up in Spain if you don't learn it. I've spent long periods of time in both Mexico and Spain. They're really not all that different (especially not on anything that would be on a printed test) except for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillary in KS Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Can't he just study up on the vosotros form? :iagree: I think this is only the major distinction, really. Latin American/ European Spanish aren't terribly different. Even within Latin American countries there are variances (a word may mean one thing in Mexico and another in Costa Rica, for example), but not enough to cause communication difficulties. Certainly not enough to score dramatically lower on a proficiency test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Thanks all! He didn't score dramatically lower - he just missed the cut off by 4 questions on the test. The evaluator told him the questions he missed were due to the differences. I'm not a Spanish speaker (French here), but from what I'm understanding, the main difference is a formal "you" form??? If so, then he sure is studying over the next couple of months and retaking! If he misses the cut off then we'll know it's other comprehension issues, but if it is solely what we were told, then all should be well I would think. Our son told us he recognized the words most of the time, but didn't understand the endings or what they did to them for translation on the ones he got wrong. He's at the college now (and we're at a motel), so I can't ask him to be certain I understand correctly, but it sounds like it all adds up. I'll just need to go hunt down a different Spanish book over the next week. The only one I'd heard of was Breaking the Barrier. Are there others I should consider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Vosotros (vosotras if all are female) is an informal plural meaning "you" used in Spain but not Latin America. In LA they usually just use "ustedes." To form it, for the present tense, -er verbs, remove the ending and add -éis "coméis" -ar verbs, remove the ending and add -áis "habláis" -ir verbs, remove the ending and add -Ãs "escribÃs" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 I'll just need to go hunt down a different Spanish book over the next week. The only one I'd heard of was Breaking the Barrier. Are there others I should consider? Breaking the Barrier is a full curriculum. It sounds like he just needs to review one form of a verb tense. Something like Practice Makes Perfect Spanish Verb Tenses would probably do the trick quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Ah, many thanks (to all)! That will be super helpful, and yes, the language director said it was a worthwhile endeavor - esp since he's double majoring and doesn't have much in extra classes to add and still graduate in 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I would recommend to all Spanish learners to learn vosotros. It is easy and while too formal in Latin America, it will be understood. Kind of like if you said Thou instead of you in English. Anyone with any brains would get it even if it was a bit strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I would recommend to all Spanish learners to learn vosotros. It is easy and while too formal in Latin America, it will be understood. Kind of like if you said Thou instead of you in English. Anyone with any brains would get it even if it was a bit strange. The vosotros form is also used extensively in the Bible, especially in the New Testament, as well as in literature. In addition, several Latin American countries use vosotros (which they call "vos") as a slang variant for the familiar singular you--just like "tu". While the vosotros form can be de-emphasized in Latin American Spanish, it shouldn't be dropped completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifra Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 There are pronunciation differences as well. In Spain, for example, lapiz (Spanish for pencil) is pronounced "lapith". I'm not sure of other differences, but when I first heard someone from Spain speaking Spanish, I thought he had a speech defect. Wrong! That's the way they ponounce things there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillary in KS Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 There are pronunciation differences as well. In Spain, for example, lapiz (Spanish for pencil) is pronounced "lapith". I'm not sure of other differences, but when I first heard someone from Spain speaking Spanish, I thought he had a speech defect. Wrong! That's the way they ponounce things there. Yes, but that wouldn't have any bearing on a written test. And I've never heard of a college Spanish course being *taught* in that particular dialect. I wouldn't worry about teaching that to a student. You'll understand it when you encounter it, but it's not necessary to teach it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 (edited) There are pronunciation differences as well. In Spain, for example, lapiz (Spanish for pencil) is pronounced "lapith". I'm not sure of other differences, but when I first heard someone from Spain speaking Spanish, I thought he had a speech defect. Wrong! That's the way they ponounce things there. :lol: That's a funny episode. :) I actually find the OTHER way of pronouncing it to be highly unnatural, I never formally studied Spanish (I mostly understand it, though), but I travelled a bit in Spain and got accustomed to hearing "th" before I figured out that not everybody spoke that way. My kids were actually told, by a friend of mine who now lives in Spain, that they mispronounce Spanish when they pronounced it the way they heard it over here. She was all upset, as in, "Ester, if you're studying Spanish, how about making them study proper Spanish, Spain Spanish and not other versions?" (to which I replied that I don't teach them any Spanish; they just picked up an expression or two). Regarding the vosotros thing, I honestly can't comprehend what the fuss is all about. :confused: To me it seems a bit like Lei/Voi issue in Italian - we say Lei for formal addressing, but some literature and some regions even today use Voi (and thus shift all the rest to plural, while with Lei you keep third person singular), and it's not that it requires a particular mental effort to switch if you have to. Or the use of Voi vs. the use of Loro for plural formal addressing; or, in fact, the lui/egli/esso distinction, or lei/ella/essa. No big deal, not even for learners that much; why not just teach BOTH forms, even if you prefer one? The language tests though are ALWAYS made by the "standard" version, and in case of languages which are spoken in multiple countries, the preferred version is far more often than not the "original" one, in lack of better expression. I write the American way nowadays, but was actually taught British at school. Anyone I know who got taught Spanish in Europe got taught Spain Spanish, not any other standard variant; anyone who got taught German got taught Germany German, not Swiss German, France standard of French, and so on. It's actually a pretty standard preference, when taking tests, you should definitely count with it. Edited June 20, 2010 by Ester Maria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jld Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I think the stronger Spanish teachers teach vosotros. My 3rd year high school Spanish teacher made us learn it, and I am glad she did. She also taught us phonetics, and the natural accent laws. No one I met in college seemed to have learned those. My teacher was old-fashioned, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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