Calculus 1 or Pre-Calculus/Trigonometry at Community College?

[nchser]

My dd is finishing 11th grade, and has completed TT Pre-Calculus (well, almost finished). The plan has been to take Calculus as a dual enrolled student for her senior year.

As I'm looking at the course descriptions, "Calculus 1" shows up as a level 200 course, with a prerequisite of "Pre-Calculus/Trigonometry" (level 100).

Does this mean she needs to take Pre-Calculus at the college? Her transcript would show Pre-Calculus twice?

I'm pretty clueless about the upper level maths, since I never went past Geometry in hs, so it is really hard for me to figure out what the natural progression would be for her by looking at course descriptions.

Help?

Edited June 17, 2010 by nchser

[kiana]

Have her take the placement test at the community college and see where she places, then go from there.

 

Pre-Calculus/Trig *should* be covered in a high school precalculus class, but many, many students do not master this the first time and retake it at college.

[Jann in TX]

I ask because TT's Pre-Calc is on the lite side... it is NOT comparable to a college level Pre-Calc --more of an introductory course (the majority of the program is Algebra 2 material). Some strong Math students may find it adequate...

 

It is common to take Pre-Calc in high school and then re-take it at the college level...

 

Your dd could still complete Calc 1 her Sr year... just do Pre-Calc the first semester and Calc 1 the second.

 

Most community colleges have a placement test to get into the college level maths... it is somewhat accurate...

 

The community college math classes will move VERY VERY quickly--especially the one-semester Pre-Calc. Expect LOTS of homework (with a very small percentage actually graded by the prof...)

[nchser]

I ask because TT's Pre-Calc is on the lite side... it is NOT comparable to a college level Pre-Calc --more of an introductory course (the majority of the program is Algebra 2 material). Some strong Math students may find it adequate...

 

It is common to take Pre-Calc in high school and then re-take it at the college level...

 

Your dd could still complete Calc 1 her Sr year... just do Pre-Calc the first semester and Calc 1 the second.

 

Most community colleges have a placement test to get into the college level maths... it is somewhat accurate...

 

The community college math classes will move VERY VERY quickly--especially the one-semester Pre-Calc. Expect LOTS of homework (with a very small percentage actually graded by the prof...)

Of all the subjects she is faced with, math is the one she has to actually work at, and she's struggled through pre-calculus this year.

I suggested a tutor, I also suggested a different math program but she was adamant that it wasn't the program or the lack of clear explanations, it was just hard. Period.

This dd took scored 34 on the ACT, with math being 31. Whenever she tests, even though her scores are top, math is the lowest. Then she moans that she's terrible at math. :001_huh:

So I wouldn't say that she is weak in math - she is obviously very capable and understands the concepts - she just isn't used to having to put that much effort into learning something I guess.

When I shared your response with her, she seemed relieved that Pre-Calc was probably the way to go. She still wants to show Calculus on her transcript, but that's a good point about the classes being 1 semester.

 

Have her take the placement test at the community college and see where she places, then go from there.

 

Pre-Calculus/Trig *should* be covered in a high school precalculus class, but many, many students do not master this the first time and retake it at college.

That's a good idea - it would answer the question. I'll check into that.

[kiana]

If she thinks she's bad at math and feels like she has to struggle, re-doing pre-calc at the community college would probably be an awesome confidence and morale booster for her. Worst comes to worst, she's bored and gets an easy grade, and she can still take Calc in the spring as Jann stated.

 

Given that her ACT is 31, she'd probably pass the placement test into calc, but they'll usually let you enroll lower.

[Susan C.]

Be aware that math at college moves twice as fast. My ds placed into calculus, and the speed of the class did him in.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

Be aware that math at college moves twice as fast. My ds placed into calculus, and the speed of the class did him in.

:iagree: Sounds very familiar. A "getting to know college" class never hurt anyone. ;)

[Sharon in MD]

We did math through Calc I at home for highschool. DS went off to college and took Calc I for his first course and it was a big confidence booster for him. He was not starting out from ground zero.

 

College courses, even those at the CC move so much more quickly than high school and there is the added complication that much of what the students do is not graded by the prof...so they often must figure out if they really understood or not on their own.

 

My son just completed his freshman year at Drexel and he has come through with flying colors, but he has also had some major set backs where he thought he was solid on material only to hit the test and have a brick wall fall on him. Students in college courses MUST make sure they get it...no one is going to help them know that they are ready for a test. THEY have to make sure they are prepared.

 

Okay, off the soap box, I would go for the pre-calc course. Get into the big pool one step at a time.

[creekland]

We did math through Calc I at home for highschool. DS went off to college and took Calc I for his first course and it was a big confidence booster for him. He was not starting out from ground zero.

 

 

 

This is what we are doing too. Calc 1 was done at home and my son just scored superbly on the math placement test at college. That said, we are having him redo Calc 1 at college to make for an easier first year with the transition and all. He'll have enough new classes AND he wants to do other activities. I think he'll need time to figure out the time/studying/activities deal. When I mentioned this to one of his professors he 100% agreed with the philosophy and prefers students do it that way.

 

If one had gotten just to Pre-Calc, then that too is probably a good starting point - repeat what they had last learned.

[Bev in B'ville]

My dd was in the same situation. The CC would not let her take Calculus without first taking Pre-Calculus, even though she took it in her 10th grade year. It ended up being a good decision overall as she had a couple of other tough courses and she sailed through Pre-Calc.

 

On her transcript, I relabeled her Pre-Calculus course (Chalkdust, by the way) as Advanced Algebra and Trigonometry.

 

HTH.

[LoriM]

You can probably guess what I'll recommend, since I lean toward "regression" in fundamental math skills. :) I would suggest she take PreCalculus at the CC (which is a FIVE semester hour course at our CC, and meets for 6 class hours each week) to get her groove on before she progress to Calc I second semester, assuming she does well.

 

HTH,

 

Lori

[Pamela H in Texas]

Well, I have a mixed opinion.

 

I GENERALLY believe in doing EVERY level at least twice. So if TT is her only PreCalc experience, then I definitely lean that way.

 

However, I will say that PreCalc was a total waste of my dd's time at the community college. For many student's, it's their first or second college math class and they need a bit of handholding. My dd HATES handholding. Also, timing wise, it would have made more sense for her to just start at Calc I (her placement test scores would have allowed this).

 

But being the first time in a college class for credit, I think we made the best choice we could have at the time. I just wouldn't necessarily do it again if there was a rewind button on life.

 

Sooooooooo.....

 

That wasn't very helpful, was it.

 

Generally, I think there are benefits to having foundational skills from a few different programs. My first choice would be to do the PreCalc class.

 

As for the transcript, I would just re-label the class you had her take. Just because the book used the words "precalculus" doesn't mean YOU have to :)

 

ETA: I read the other responses. I ALWAYS forget that MOST students are taking a year per math level. I do think there is a consideration there. Going from one year to one semester can be a big difference. Also, though she's a STRONG math student (just not as strong as her other courses), it seems as it will give her a confidence boost to find that PreCalc class easy, solidify any last skills, etc. And then again, I'm just a "do it twice" person. So yes, I would have her take the PreCalc :)

Edited June 18, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[nchser]

You all have been so helpful!!

I really like the idea of re-labeling her current math to Advanced Algebra/Trigonometry. That was not sitting well with her, having the appearance of repeating a class, even though anyone taking a thoughtful look at it would understand.

 

I also appreciate the heads up regarding the pace of a cc math course. I'm sure it will rattle her cage a little since for the last 2 years (coinciding with my granting her more independence...)she has had to spend her summer completing a math program that she didn't give full attention to during the year.

I have no doubt she is up to the task, it will certainly keep her on her toes :)