Guess what I learned and I wasn't even trying?

[beachmom]

I was browsing a community college website and reading about credit transfers from this CC to other universities. Imbedded somewhere was this information about medical and dental schools:

 

Applicants must complete the prescribed coursework listed in the table below. A grade of at least C must be earned in each of the required courses. The only exception is Advanced Placement credit which can be used to meet the prescribed coursework.

• Applicants are encouraged to complete their prerequisite coursework with letter grades rather than using a pass/fail option.

• Advanced placement credit is accepted only if the college/university granting the credit lists the specific course(s) and number of units granted per course on an official transcript. Lump-sum credit is NOT accepted.

 

I emailed the contact person and asked if I were correct to assume that a student couldn't have CLEP credit for the prescribed coursework. She said my assumption was correct. So apparently if you want to go dental or medical school in Texas, you can't take CLEP for the prescribed coursework and you have to be sure that the AP credits are listed as specific courses, not lump sum credit.

 

It's amazing what you learn without even trying!

[amtmcm]

Good to know!

[nchser]

What is "lump sum credit" anyway? :001_huh:

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm wondering the same thing. And does the class have to be an AP approved class, or just one where the student took the AP afterward and got a good score??? :confused:

 

I wish there was more uniformity to what schools would and wouldn't accept. It almost seems you have to take AP and CLEP courses for all the subjects you don't want to repeat in college, and then you still have to wonder if they'll be accepted if they're in your major.

[MomsintheGarden]

Thank you for posting this! We went to a medical school open house in April here in VA, and asked about AP credit for prereqs. We were told that it's perfectly ok, and that they didn't care about the scores, as long as they were high enough to receive credit.

 

We didn't think to ask about CLEP credit, though :001_huh:. Thanks for the heads up on that - it makes me glad dd took APs for the med school requirement prereqs instead of CLEPs.

 

If in doubt, choose AP over CLEP for these classes if your student is considering medical/dental/PA/PT schools. I do not know about nursing.

Biology

English (the two semesters of freshman English)

Chemistry

 

There is no Physics CLEP, and the med school we are considering does not have a specific math core requirement (that's covered in the science prereqs anyway).

 

If your student is considering a specific post-graduate medical school, look on their website or call them to make sure.

 

Thanks!

GardenMom

Edited June 17, 2010 by MomsintheGarden
Killed a kitten.

[MomsintheGarden]

And does the class have to be an AP approved class' date=' or just one where the student took the AP afterward and got a good score??? :confused:[/quote']

 

I seriously doubt that med schools care if the course syllabus has been approved by the CB - they probably aren't even aware of the approval process. All they care about is if the student took an AP test and scored well enough to receive credit.

 

GardenMom

[MomsintheGarden]

What is "lump sum credit" anyway? :001_huh:

 

Google is our friend. Here are some answers:

http://timi.megabyet.net/2010/06/lump-sum-credit-for-ap-tests/

 

One of the responders said that gen bio credits are not accepted by med schools, but another said that they are at many schools. In this situation, the student might have greater pressure to perform well in upper-level bio classes than one who got A's in lower-level bio classes. I believe the pressure is great no matter what you choose. The "check with the school" mantra applies for med school as well.

 

HTH,

GardenMom

[Teachin'Mine]

I seriously doubt that med schools care if the course syllabus has been approved by the CB - they probably aren't even aware of the approval process. All they care about is if the student took an AP test and scored well enough to receive credit.

 

GardenMom

 

Probably very true - thanks! It seems that they're not concerned with how it's presented on the high school transcript, but on the college transcript - I misunderstood the first time round. I guess it's important to make sure that they appropriately list the courses and credit.

[ChemMommy]

I love seeing AP credits on transcripts but not all AP classes are equivalent or equivalent to a college class. And an AP credit inside or outside a student's major cannot be handled the same way.

 

We often have pre-meds and pre-dents show up with AP credit in Calc I. Med schools and dental schools don't like the LAST course in a subject to be an AP high school class. So, these students with AP credits end up taking Calc II to prove that their Calc I AP credit wasn't a fluke. Most do great and the second credit in math only helps their application to med school. However, they are certainly disgruntled when they discover that AP didn't exempt them from a college class but rather moved them to a high-level class.

 

When we get someone with an AP Chem credit, we put them in Honors Chem I, not Chem II. In 20 years of teaching pre-meds, etc., I have never had one single student AP out of Chem I and not fail out of Chem II. Nope, not a one.

 

AP courses and AP grading do NOT equal adequate preparation in chemistry, IMHO. They show aptitude and depth of knowledge, but are NOT replacements for the university chemistry course.

 

AP credits ARE helpful in when the credit is not in science or math. For example, an AP credit in history means that my budding pre-med gets to skip out of a "core" general ed class in history.

 

Here's how I explain AP credit and majors to students. Think "ladder major" v. a "mushroom major".

 

Ladder majors build upon the previous course directly and significantly. Think Calc I, Calc II, Calc III, etc. In these kinds of majors, having a weaker background because a course was taken in high school means that all subsequent courses may be harder because the student has a weaker preparation.

 

Mushroom majors have one or two introductory courses and then a student can choose from a wide variety of courses to satisfy graduation requirements. In an English major, after Freshman Comp I and II, a student can take poetry, fiction writing, Victorian lit seminars, etc. So, if a student has AP credit and a weaker background in poetry, they can avoid upper-level poetry classes if they are not interested in poetry at all OR they can address that weaker and take a poetry class. A weaker background will not undermine the entire major the way a weaker background in Calc I can undermine the whole math major.

 

Hope this came across clearly....:001_smile:

[Teachin'Mine]

Thank you Pam for such a helpful post! That should be made a sticky!!! :D

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

I love seeing AP credits on transcripts but not all AP classes are equivalent or equivalent to a college class. And an AP credit inside or outside a student's major cannot be handled the same way.

 

We often have pre-meds and pre-dents show up with AP credit in Calc I. Med schools and dental schools don't like the LAST course in a subject to be an AP high school class. So, these students with AP credits end up taking Calc II to prove that their Calc I AP credit wasn't a fluke. Most do great and the second credit in math only helps their application to med school. However, they are certainly disgruntled when they discover that AP didn't exempt them from a college class but rather moved them to a high-level class.

 

When we get someone with an AP Chem credit, we put them in Honors Chem I, not Chem II. In 20 years of teaching pre-meds, etc., I have never had one single student AP out of Chem I and not fail out of Chem II. Nope, not a one.

 

AP courses and AP grading do NOT equal adequate preparation in chemistry, IMHO. They show aptitude and depth of knowledge, but are NOT replacements for the university chemistry course.

 

AP credits ARE helpful in when the credit is not in science or math. For example, an AP credit in history means that my budding pre-med gets to skip out of a "core" general ed class in history.

 

Here's how I explain AP credit and majors to students. Think "ladder major" v. a "mushroom major".

 

Ladder majors build upon the previous course directly and significantly. Think Calc I, Calc II, Calc III, etc. In these kinds of majors, having a weaker background because a course was taken in high school means that all subsequent courses may be harder because the student has a weaker preparation.

 

Mushroom majors have one or two introductory courses and then a student can choose from a wide variety of courses to satisfy graduation requirements. In an English major, after Freshman Comp I and II, a student can take poetry, fiction writing, Victorian lit seminars, etc. So, if a student has AP credit and a weaker background in poetry, they can avoid upper-level poetry classes if they are not interested in poetry at all OR they can address that weaker and take a poetry class. A weaker background will not undermine the entire major the way a weaker background in Calc I can undermine the whole math major.

 

Hope this came across clearly....:001_smile:

 

I just wanted to say I ALWAYS love your insights. We've got a budding pre-med (we think) over here and all of your posts are so helpful.

[beachmom]

I was browsing a community college website and reading about credit transfers from this CC to other universities. Imbedded somewhere was this information about medical and dental schools:

 

Applicants must complete the prescribed coursework listed in the table below. A grade of at least C must be earned in each of the required courses. The only exception is Advanced Placement credit which can be used to meet the prescribed coursework.

• Applicants are encouraged to complete their prerequisite coursework with letter grades rather than using a pass/fail option.

• Advanced placement credit is accepted only if the college/university granting the credit lists the specific course(s) and number of units granted per course on an official transcript. Lump-sum credit is NOT accepted.

 

I emailed the contact person and asked if I were correct to assume that a student couldn't have CLEP credit for the prescribed coursework. She said my assumption was correct. So apparently if you want to go dental or medical school in Texas, you can't take CLEP for the prescribed coursework and you have to be sure that the AP credits are listed as specific courses, not lump sum credit.

 

It's amazing what you learn without even trying!

 

Here is the entire commentary on educational requirements for anyone who is interested.

 

Education Requirements

for Texas Medical and Dental School Applicants

• Applicants must have completed a minimum of 90 semester hours (or 134 quarter hours) at an accredited U.S. or Canadian college or university.

• Baccalaureate degrees are highly desirable. However, exceptionally mature students without a degree, who have outstanding academic records, superior performance on the respective admissions test and highly desirable personal qualifications may be considered for admission. The applicant must have completed at least 90 undergraduate semester hours before the anticipated date of enrollment.

• Applicants must complete the prescribed coursework listed in the table below. A grade of at least C must be earned in each of the required courses. The only exception is Advanced Placement credit which can be used to meet the prescribed coursework.

• Applicants are encouraged to complete their prerequisite coursework with letter grades rather than using a pass/fail option.

• Advanced placement credit is accepted only if the college/university granting the credit lists the specific course(s) and number of units granted per course on an official transcript. Lump-sum credit is NOT accepted.

• Graduate courses DO NOT satisfy the minimum 90 hour requirement, nor will graduate level courses satisfy any of the prescribed course requirements

• For those persons invoking the Academic Fresh Start provision, more information can be found at the Academic Fresh Start section on the Other Topics page of this website.

• Credit hours earned on the quarter system carry two-thirds the numerical value of those earned on the semester system.

 

BIOLOGY

14 semester hours (12 semester hours of lecture and 2 semester hours of formal lab) or 21 quarter hours (18 quarter lecture hours and 3 quarter lab hours) of Biology are required. The coursework must be applicable toward a science degree. Includes all Biology courses applied toward Baccalaureate degree in traditional science fields, such as: General Biology, Zoology, Botany, Microbiology, Molecular Biology, Genetics, Ecology, Immunology, Parasitology, Ornithology, Anatomy and Physiology, Entomology, Pathophysiology, Marine Biology and Herpetology. Biochemistry will be accepted towards satisfying the 14 hour Biology requirement. Texas Tech University HSC will only accept biochemistry if it is taught in the Biology department. For UT School of Medicine at San Antonio, 3 of the 14 hours of required Biology coursework MUST BE Biochemistry (taught in either a biology or chemistry department). Courses for non-science majors or for health career majors (Nursing, Pharmacy or Allied Health Sciences) ARE NOT ACCEPTED.

 

GENERAL CHEMISTRY

8 semester hours or 12 quarter hours of General Chemistry, as required for college science majors, including the corresponding laboratory experience are required. (8 semester hours = 6 hours of lecture and 2 hours of lab; 12 quarter hours = 9 hours of lecture and 3 hours of lab). Must be a course that is applied toward a baccalaureate degree in any traditional science field and include familiarity with analytic and volumetric techniques. Inorganic courses include General Chemistry, Physical Chemistry and Quantitative Analysis. Courses for non-science majors or for health career majors (Nursing, Pharmacy or Allied Health Sciences) ARE NOT ACCEPTED.

 

ORGANIC CHEMISTRY

8 semester hours or 12 quarter hours of Organic Chemistry, as required for college science majors, including the corresponding laboratory experience are required. (8 semester hours = 6 hours of lecture and 2 hours of lab; 12 quarter hours = 9 hours of lecture and 3 hours of lab). Must be a course that is applied toward a baccalaureate degree in any traditional science field and include familiarity with analytic and volumetric techniques. Courses for non-science majors or for health career majors (Nursing, Pharmacy or Allied Health Sciences) ARE NOT ACCEPTED. BIOCHEMISTRY Required ONLY by UT Dental Branch at Houston, UT School of Medicine at San Antonio and Baylor College of Dentistry. However, it is strongly recommended by all other TMDSAS schools. 3 semester hours or 5 quarter hours of Biochemistry is required. Must be a course that is applied toward a baccalaureate degree in any traditional science field. UT School of Medicine at San Antonio: This requirement may be used to fulfill the Biology requirement of 14 hours. The course may be taught in the Biology, Biochemistry or Chemistry department. Cannot be an introductory course. Baylor College of Dentistry and UT Dental Branch at Houston: This requirement is in addition to the Biology requirement of 14 hours and may not be used to fulfill the Biology requirement. The course may be taught in the Biology, Biochemistry or Chemistry department. Must have a grade of C or better.

 

PHYSICS

8 semester hours or 12 quarter hours of Physics, as required for college science majors, including the corresponding laboratory experience are required. (8 semester hours = 6 hours of lecture and 2 hours of lab; 12 quarter hours = 9 hours of lecture and 3 hours of lab) Includes all physics courses applied toward a baccalaureate degree in any traditional science field. Courses for non-science majors or for health career majors (Nursing, Pharmacy or Allied Health Sciences) ARE NOT ACCEPTED.

 

ENGLISH

6 semester hours or 9 quarter hours of college English are required. Any course accredited by the English Department that fulfills a general education English requirement of a baccalaureate degree will be accepted. Remedial or developmental courses or "English As a Second Language" courses ARE NOT ACCEPTED. The UT Medical Branch at Galveston WILL NOT ACCEPT upper-level writing intensive courses taught in departments other than English to satisfy the requirement.

 

CALCULUS/STATISTICS

3 semester hours or 4 quarter hours of college Calculus or Statistics is required. The Calculus/Statistics requirement is not required for dental schools. The calculus course can be any calculus course taught by a Math or Physics Department. Business Calculus or any Pre-Calculus courses ARE NOT ACCEPTED. The Statistics course should be taught in the Math Department. Individual medical schools may consider statistics courses taught in other departments on an individual basis.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

 

Here's how I explain AP credit and majors to students. Think "ladder major" v. a "mushroom major".

 

 

Hope this came across clearly....:001_smile:

 

 

I love your description. It is quite clear and helpful.:001_smile: