MeganW Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Has anybody looked at ATI's Wisdom Booklets? This would NOT be a replacement for other curriculums, but rather something to do just during summer or other downtimes. A break from the norm, if you will. I have never heard of this program other than from TLC's show on the Duggars. I don't agree with everything they do, but those kids' characters & personalities just shine! I feel like there are times when the TLC folks are TRYING to get the kids to complain or avoid work, and yet time and again, without Mom & Dad watching, you see them choose to do the right thing and actually be happy about it. I would love to implement more formal than everyday living, in hopes of following in her footsteps in that regard. She gives a lot of credit to ATI's Wisdom Booklets. I do not want to do the whole ATI program, but just the character / Scripture portion. Is it possible to separate that out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 As an fyi, there is a lot of theological baggage associated with ATI and its founder, Bill Gothard. I'd research it carefully to be sure you agree with his take on Scripture and his (extensive, specific, and non-optional) applications. Just google Gothard - you should find lots of info. (Actually, I'm not even sure you can buy the ATI curriculum without agreeing with the complete set of Gothard beliefs in the first place.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeganW Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 Oh - good to know. We are Christian, but not fundamental. I'll check into it further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 I think you can only buy the Wisdom booklets if you are part of ATI and they really have a lot more than what you are looking for anyway. Iirc, the Character Sketches have what you want. They are sold by IBLP, creators of the Wisdom booklets. You can usually find the CS used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 It requires training and commitment to their whole philosophy and approach. Part-time enrollment is not an option as far as I know. http://ati.iblp.org/ati/admissions. I went to the seminars years ago before marriage, and know several families who have followed the ATI approach, one all the way through. Not at all for us.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aquiverfull Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 You can find some character training material at Training for Triumph. http://www.tfths.com/character.php That is the website for Character Quality Language Arts, which is the same as the Wisdom Booklet Language Arts. I know you said you are just interested in the character study, but the Language Arts has a character study built right in, you can look more into it if you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Actually, I'm not even sure you can buy the ATI curriculum without agreeing with the complete set of Gothard beliefs in the first place. You cannot buy the Wisdom booklets. You get them when you join ATI, and that involves attending Basic and Advanced seminars, pastor recommendation, and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jgalicinski Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 It requires training and commitment to their whole philosophy and approach. Part-time enrollment is not an option as far as I know. http://ati.iblp.org/ati/admissions. I went to the seminars years ago before marriage, and know several families who have followed the ATI approach, one all the way through. Not at all for us.:D Hi, you said you know families who have gone through the ATI program? Is it possible to talk to someone about this? We have been "accepted" into the ATI program, but haven't paid the $600 yet.. We're trying to find out more about the program online and are finding websites like: http://www.recoveringgrace.org/ We want great tools and programs to help our family with character like the Duggars have.. But I don't want to put a weighted yoke around my families necks either. I'm very surprised about how protected these "Wisdom Booklets" are.. We just want to know what it is and how it works.. But it seems like they are like holy writings to ATI.. Any help you would send our way would be great. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Jgal--Like you, I was struck by the Duggars' mention of ATI and the wisdom booklets at the convention. But what the others are saying is what I got told when I asked. You had to join and do the whole enchilada to get them. It had totally slipped my mind in the couple months since the convention, but now this past week the Lord brought Konos (also character-driven) across my path. It's very affordable used and might be an alternative for you. I'm excited about using it with my son as he gets older. I even made a little tentative schedule of how we could do the 3 volumes of Konos and then go into a more typical WTM/VP-style progression. You'll notice I DIDN'T do that with my dd. I'm sort of loosening up this 2nd time around and I'm less afraid to diverge and do things. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMother Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I am disappointed to learn that the wisdom booklets are not readily available. They are mentioned in the back of the Duggars' latest book. Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoramDeoTutorials Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I have been raised through the ATI program from 4th grade through high school, and after coming out of it, I would not recommend the Wisdom Booklet curriculum or ATI to anyone. The website that jgalicinski found, recoveringgrace.org, offers some very true accounts of the kind of "biblical teachings" and "doctrines" that we were brainwashed with. I encourage you, especially, to read the essay "A Call for Discernment", written by the Elders of Calvary Bible Church (http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/10/a-call-for-discernment/), which points out the hermeneutical errors Bill Gothard makes in supporting the main areas of his teachings. Some of the stories shared on the site are more extreme than others, but you will get the sense of legalism that pervades ATI teaching. Almost all of Bill Gothard's teachings, including the Wisdom Booklets, has to do with step-by-step procedures for attaining God's blessing. If you don't follow the steps, you are liable to Satan's attacks, and you will lose God's blessings. The problem is, these steps are wholly conceived by Bill Gothard, while using Scripture verses often taken out of context to support his points. He also often takes his own standards and sets them up as "God's standards", so that you must follow his rules in order to be a good Christian. It is a very formulaic, works-based approach to Christian living, and there is hardly any room for grace. After my parents attended seminary at Columbia International University, they realized that many of Bill Gothard's biblical principles and doctrines were supported by verses taken entirely out of context or misapplied. There are many logical fallacies and hermeneutical fallacies throughout his publications. Yet he manages to twist Scripture in such a way as to make it sound convincing to those who do not dig deeper and study Scripture for themselves. Here is one, for example, taken from The Journal Of Virtue: "Some Christians try to justify 'social drinking' on the basis that Jesus turned water into wine. That Jesus did this is inconceivable. Fermentation is a process of death, and He is life." Here is Bill Gothard's definition of grace: "Grace is the desire and the power that God gives us to do His will." And here is one of his points supporting his argument that dancing is sinful: "The sister of Moses danced after victory... The next time we hear of Miriam, she is again taking a leadership position--this time speaking against her brother Moses. God's anger was directed toward Miriam for this, and she became leprous... Assuming that Miriam was acting properly in leading the women, it is still significant that the next event recorded about her leadership was negative." He makes the same points with Jephthah's daughter, David and Saul returning from battle with the Philistines, and David dancing before the Lord while Michal despised him. All of these points are examples of the logical fallacy, post hoc ergo propter hoc (because an event happened after that one, this event was caused by that one). You can read his entire article in the Journal of Virtue, pgs. 32-35. Note also that Bill Gothard never properly footnotes his citations or his numerous anecdotes so you can never go back and verify his supporting arguments. I am in seminary myself at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, trying to relearn how to interpret the Bible without committing the same hermeneutical fallacies by exegeting the original texts. It is impossible for me to give a thorough explanation of this system of teaching, but I would caution anyone looking into this program to examine the materials carefully and consult your pastors, elders and trusted Bible scholars on Bill Gothard's interpretations. I hope this at least gave you a little taste of what is wrong with it. I am utterly grateful for God's faithfulness and grace to me to allow me to come out of this program and have the opportunity to see his Word with fresh eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS in LA Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I have been raised through the ATI program from 4th grade through high school, and after coming out of it, I would not recommend the Wisdom Booklet curriculum or ATI to anyone. The website that jgalicinski found, recoveringgrace.org, offers some very true accounts of the kind of "biblical teachings" and "doctrines" that we were brainwashed with. I encourage you, especially, to read the essay "A Call for Discernment", written by the Elders of Calvary Bible Church (http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/10/a-call-for-discernment/), which points out the hermeneutical errors Bill Gothard makes in supporting the main areas of his teachings. Some of the stories shared on the site are more extreme than others, but you will get the sense of legalism that pervades ATI teaching. Almost all of Bill Gothard's teachings, including the Wisdom Booklets, has to do with step-by-step procedures for attaining God's blessing. If you don't follow the steps, you are liable to Satan's attacks, and you will lose God's blessings. The problem is, these steps are wholly conceived by Bill Gothard, while using Scripture verses often taken out of context to support his points. He also often takes his own standards and sets them up as "God's standards", so that you must follow his rules in order to be a good Christian. It is a very formulaic, works-based approach to Christian living, and there is hardly any room for grace. After my parents attended seminary at Columbia International University, they realized that many of Bill Gothard's biblical principles and doctrines were supported by verses taken entirely out of context or misapplied. There are many logical fallacies and hermeneutical fallacies throughout his publications. Yet he manages to twist Scripture in such a way as to make it sound convincing to those who do not dig deeper and study Scripture for themselves. Here is one, for example, taken from The Journal Of Virtue: "Some Christians try to justify 'social drinking' on the basis that Jesus turned water into wine. That Jesus did this is inconceivable. Fermentation is a process of death, and He is life." Here is Bill Gothard's definition of grace: "Grace is the desire and the power that God gives us to do His will." And here is one of his points supporting his argument that dancing is sinful: "The sister of Moses danced after victory... The next time we hear of Miriam, she is again taking a leadership position--this time speaking against her brother Moses. God's anger was directed toward Miriam for this, and she became leprous... Assuming that Miriam was acting properly in leading the women, it is still significant that the next event recorded about her leadership was negative." He makes the same points with Jephthah's daughter, David and Saul returning from battle with the Philistines, and David dancing before the Lord while Michal despised him. All of these points are examples of the logical fallacy, post hoc ergo propter hoc (because an event happened after that one, this event was caused by that one). You can read his entire article in the Journal of Virtue, pgs. 32-35. Note also that Bill Gothard never properly footnotes his citations or his numerous anecdotes so you can never go back and verify his supporting arguments. I am in seminary myself at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, trying to relearn how to interpret the Bible without committing the same hermeneutical fallacies by exegeting the original texts. It is impossible for me to give a thorough explanation of this system of teaching, but I would caution anyone looking into this program to examine the materials carefully and consult your pastors, elders and trusted Bible scholars on Bill Gothard's interpretations. I hope this at least gave you a little taste of what is wrong with it. I am utterly grateful for God's faithfulness and grace to me to allow me to come out of this program and have the opportunity to see his Word with fresh eyes. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us! I appreciated your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeganW Posted December 4, 2011 Author Share Posted December 4, 2011 Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us! I appreciated your response. Ditto - very eye-opening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgonczi Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 ajeclizm - Do you have an opinion on the Character Sketches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 ajeclizm, welcome to the boards! Thank you for taking time to post that information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Very, very close family friends were part of ATI for years. Three of the four kids traveled and worked for ATI. All four kids (and the parents, too) would now tell you to stay far, far, FAR away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfamilygal Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Don't do it!! It is legalistic poison. I cannot stress this enough. Check out http://www.undermuchgrace.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 As an fyi, there is a lot of theological baggage associated with ATI and its founder, Bill Gothard. I'd research it carefully to be sure you agree with his take on Scripture and his (extensive, specific, and non-optional) applications. Just google Gothard - you should find lots of info.…) :iagree: Hi, you said you know families who have gone through the ATI program? Is it possible to talk to someone about this? We have been "accepted" into the ATI program, but haven't paid the $600 yet.. We're trying to find out more about the program online and are finding websites like:http://www.recoveringgrace.org/ We want great tools and programs to help our family with character like the Duggars have.. But I don't want to put a weighted yoke around my families necks either. I'm very surprised about how protected these "Wisdom Booklets" are.. … A weighted yoke is exactly what you will get with ATI. "Protection" of a supposedly Biblicly based book should cause you be very, very cautious! :grouphug: I am disappointed to learn that the wisdom booklets are not readily available. They are mentioned in the back of the Duggars' latest book. Michelle Don't be disappointed - be thankful. :grouphug: I have been raised through the ATI program from 4th grade through high school, and after coming out of it, I would not recommend the Wisdom Booklet curriculum or ATI to anyone. The website that jgalicinski found, recoveringgrace.org, offers some very true accounts of the kind of "biblical teachings" and "doctrines" that we were brainwashed with. I encourage you, especially, to read the essay "A Call for Discernment", written by the Elders of Calvary Bible Church (http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/10/a-call-for-discernment/), which points out the hermeneutical errors Bill Gothard makes in supporting the main areas of his teachings. Some of the stories shared on the site are more extreme than others, but you will get the sense of legalism that pervades ATI teaching. Almost all of Bill Gothard's teachings, including the Wisdom Booklets, has to do with step-by-step procedures for attaining God's blessing. If you don't follow the steps, you are liable to Satan's attacks, and you will lose God's blessings. The problem is, these steps are wholly conceived by Bill Gothard, while using Scripture verses often taken out of context to support his points. He also often takes his own standards and sets them up as "God's standards", so that you must follow his rules in order to be a good Christian. It is a very formulaic, works-based approach to Christian living, and there is hardly any room for grace. After my parents attended seminary at Columbia International University, they realized that many of Bill Gothard's biblical principles and doctrines were supported by verses taken entirely out of context or misapplied. There are many logical fallacies and hermeneutical fallacies throughout his publications. Yet he manages to twist Scripture in such a way as to make it sound convincing to those who do not dig deeper and study Scripture for themselves. … Note also that Bill Gothard never properly footnotes his citations or his numerous anecdotes so you can never go back and verify his supporting arguments. I am in seminary myself at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, trying to relearn how to interpret the Bible without committing the same hermeneutical fallacies by exegeting the original texts. It is impossible for me to give a thorough explanation of this system of teaching, but I would caution anyone looking into this program to examine the materials carefully and consult your pastors, elders and trusted Bible scholars on Bill Gothard's interpretations. I hope this at least gave you a little taste of what is wrong with it. I am utterly grateful for God's faithfulness and grace to me to allow me to come out of this program and have the opportunity to see his Word with fresh eyes. Thank you, ajeclizm :grouphug::grouphug: Very, very close family friends were part of ATI for years. Three of the four kids traveled and worked for ATI. All four kids (and the parents, too) would now tell you to stay far, far, FAR away. :iagree:I know a family with 6 children with the same testimony. The parents were impressed with the character of the children in ATI and wanted the same for their family. The mom is now trying to undo the years of false teaching. :grouphug: to all and best wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 My DH had a co-worker a few years ago that went through ATI as a kid and then worked for them after. They encourage young adults to work for them and then way underpay them for their skills. I believe this man had a young lady he was interested in, but ATI discourages anything that might lead their almost slaves-er, employees, away from them. This man is now probably 33 or so and I doubt he will ever get married. (Honestly, he's really kind of a jerk and I don't know who would be interested in that.) Anyway, another co-worker would play Christian rock music like Jars of Clay and the first man had a really, really hard time being around it. He intellectually knew that there's nothing sinful about a "rock beat," but years of ATI legalism left him unable to be around it without feeling extremely uncomfortable. I don't even want to know what other baggage he probably has from ATI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hi, you said you know families who have gone through the ATI program? Is it possible to talk to someone about this? We have been "accepted" into the ATI program, but haven't paid the $600 yet.. We're trying to find out more about the program online and are finding websites like:http://www.recoveringgrace.org/ We want great tools and programs to help our family with character like the Duggars have.. But I don't want to put a weighted yoke around my families necks either. I'm very surprised about how protected these "Wisdom Booklets" are.. We just want to know what it is and how it works.. But it seems like they are like holy writings to ATI.. Any help you would send our way would be great. Thanks. I have a very good friend that went through it with her family. It almost destroyed their family (they had severe ADHD issues that went undiagnosed and were couched/disciplined as "behavioral" issues). They ended up "kidnapping" one of thier sons and sending him to a lock-down behavioral treatment program becasue he was dealing from their house- self-medicating, perhaps? There is a LOT of pressure on the dh's to perform in conscripted ways and I have heard 2 wives express "severe disappointment" in their dh's lack of spiritual leadership because they were not perfomring in expected ways. If you want the contact info of my friend, pm me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMe Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 For me a "rule of thumb"...A light bulb will always go off in my mind for organizations that require joining, requirements for attendance, or having re-written materials (man's word against God's word) as well as the concept of using only "our" publications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobTHJ Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Sorry for dragging up an old thread, but I stumbled on this after looking at the ATI curriculum. Could anyone recommend a good biblically-based character training curriculum without the legalistic baggage of ATI? I'd really like to do something similar to ATI's wisdom booklets with my children, but I'm not quite ready to renounce the sin of rock music (tongue-in-cheek). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed2five Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 This thread caught my eye only because I am a previous ATI Wisdom book user. For character training I have found Marilyn and Rick Boyer's books and resources on character training to be excellent in Biblical character training. They even have a sale going on right now. Besides curriculum they have books for the parents to read that are very helpful. Here is a link to their site: http://www.thelearningparent.com/default.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Students of the Word is based on this Spiritual vs Carnal chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobTHJ Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 This thread caught my eye only because I am a previous ATI Wisdom book user. For character training I have found Marilyn and Rick Boyer's books and resources on character training to be excellent in Biblical character training. They even have a sale going on right now. Besides curriculum they have books for the parents to read that are very helpful. Here is a link to their site: http://www.thelearningparent.com/default.asp Thanks for the suggestion! I have heard good things about the Boyers before, but didn't realize they produced a character curriculum. I'll check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 My kids have loved BriteMusic's Standin' Tall character program. http://www.britemusic.com/standin-tall-set-downloadable You can buy just one if you like. My kids love the Land of Obey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 For me a "rule of thumb"...A light bulb will always go off in my mind for organizations that require joining, requirements for attendance, or having re-written materials (man's word against God's word) as well as the concept of using only "our" publications. After reading The Core, I became interested in sentence composition, and was very disappointed to find the author had written a followup entire curriculum, that she won't sell to nonmembers. I won't try to get a used copy, just on principal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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