Yikes!!! I don't know what to do about Ds and college

[AnitaMcC]

With all the talk about checking into the college admissions/policies on transfer credit and dual credit courses.... I looked into it. My son's prefered school does not accept credit for college courses taken while in high school :thumbdown:

 

Ds just took a computer course this year and earned 4 credits, and we decided to allow him to go ahead and take Precalculus I (web based), Chemistry I (classroom), and Astronomy (video/self paced based) this fall. Then in the spring semester take Precalculus II and Chemistry II. That will be 25 credits for him total by the time he is finished with 10th grade.

 

Now I don't know what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :confused:

 

Do I not allow him to take anymore college courses until he finishes high school and make him "do" high school instead? I just feel that is holding him back and he has been through that for 9 years of public school system... We are homeschooling him so he can go his pace and take the college courses now that he is ready to do. He does not want to "waste" time doing high school courses when he can do college.

 

He is dx Asperger and if I have to hold him back, he will not accept it without a solid logical argument...

 

The only other option I can think of, is for us to not move to NY as we are trying to do, and stay in IL and have him transfer to a Illinois university as there are transfer agreements between CC and the universities.

 

Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I thought we had it all planned out...:tongue_smilie:

[Teachin'Mine]

Can you "graduate" him from high school and let him be a freshman at CC? Then he can transfer after two years of CC to the college of his choice as a transfer student. Not sure if it's possible to "graduate" him, and also not sure how his status as a transfer student would affect scholarships and all.

[AnitaMcC]

Can you "graduate" him from high school and let him be a freshman at CC? Then he can transfer after two years of CC to the college of his choice as a transfer student. Not sure if it's possible to "graduate" him' date=' and also not sure how his status as a transfer student would affect scholarships and all.[/quote']

 

I don't think I can graduate him without him earning the credits. At this point he is finishing up 9th grade and will have credit for:

 

English 10

World History to 1800

Algebra 1 (he took it in 8th grade and it can count as high school credit)

Algebra 2

Geometry

1/2 yr aerospace education

1/2 yr geology

Chemistry (just a easy course using Teaching Company chemistry videos

and a few labs to meet CC Chemistry I prereqs).

Health/PE

Comuter Fundamentals (CC course he took).

 

So he will only have 1 yr English, 1 yr social studies, 3 yrs math, 2 yrs science, 1 yr health/PE, and 1 yr of computers. That is 9 credits and he needs at least 24 I think.

 

I just don't know what to do... and if I did graduate him, the CC would want a transcript of what he has completed and I would have to lie since he actually didn't complete the courses. That is why he is doing early entrance/dual credit. So he earns both college and high school credit at the same time for courses that he is ready for.

[Mama Lynx]

On his transcript from the college, does it *say* dual credit, or anything about him being in high school? Is that indicated on the transcript?

[AnitaMcC]

On his transcript from the college, does it *say* dual credit, or anything about him being in high school? Is that indicated on the transcript?

 

Yes it does. He is shown as a early enrollment/high school student.

[Chris in VA]

He's already chosen a college, in 9th grade? Wow.

 

Have you actually called the college and talked with an admissions counselor? I would--explain everything, and see what they say.

[AnitaMcC]

He's already chosen a college, in 9th grade? Wow.

 

Have you actually called the college and talked with an admissions counselor? I would--explain everything, and see what they say.

 

 

He is a kid who knows what he wants. The college he wants to attend is Columbia University in New York City. When he was 8yrs old he decided he was going into astronomy. When he was 11 yrs old he decided he will study astrophysics. He is very logical and decisive. I tell him to keep his options open, he says "Why? I already know what I want". So I am trying to prepare him for anything that seems to fit for him. He really loves astronomy, physics, geology.

 

I plan to call the college next week.

[In The Great White North]

He's already chosen a college, in 9th grade? Wow.

:iagree: 9th grade is early to decide on a college. He may change his mind. I'd let him take the courses anyway and realize that they may be viewed as high school courses.

 

I tell him to keep his options open, he says "Why? I already know what I want".

Why? Because he may not get in to Columbia and needs to have a back-up plan. Edited May 23, 2010 by In The Great White North

[Jane in NC]

He is a kid who knows what he wants. The college he wants to attend is Columbia University in New York City. When he was 8yrs old he decided he was going into astronomy. When he was 11 yrs old he decided he will study astrophysics. He is very logical and decisive. I tell him to keep his options open, he says "Why? I already know what I want". So I am trying to prepare him for anything that seems to fit for him. He really loves astronomy, physics, geology.

 

I plan to call the college next week.

 

Most of the applicants to Ivy League and other highly competitive schools will have a slate of AP and/or college courses on their transcripts. Many of these schools use AP or previous college courses for placement purposes only. When you make the call, you might want to ask the admissions officer if they would prefer to see AP. One thing that AP does is offer a standard syllabus, something that community colleges do not do. It is hard for universities to gauge the content of courses offered by CCs in other states.

 

I think that your son needs to understand that most colleges will not consider Precalculus a college level course--it really is high school material. Also, if he is going to major in astronomy or physics, colleges will often not accept introductory courses for the major. He may need to have Calculus under his belt before taking courses that "count" in these disciplines.

 

Perhaps another idea to consider is attending Columbia for graduate school. That way he could apply these CC courses to an undergraduate degree at a public university in your current state of residence.

[asta]

Perhaps another idea to consider is attending Columbia for graduate school. That way he could apply these CC courses to an undergraduate degree at a public university in your current state of residence.

 

This is what we're finally getting across to our Aspie. He decided what he wanted to go to college for in 8th grade (meteorology). No budging. Well, that is all well and good, but undergrad meteorology programs (certified) are few and far between, and regardless, all have physics at their base.

 

After much pushing and prodding, we have convinced him to go for a physics undergrad and THEN (if he is still set on it) pursue meteorology for grad school. I think our kids forget that they are going to grow up and change. Even Aspies (for whom all change is bad... ;)).

 

 

a

[kiana]

I would worry less about whether the credits will transfer and more about challenging him where he is. If he's bored and sullen in high school due to taking course work that he deems worthless and a waste of his time, he probably won't excel as he would have to to get into where he wants to go.

 

FWIW: I would not expect precalculus to transfer for credit to an elite university and an astronomy course may be dubious as well. Astronomy without a physics prerequisite is usually (not always) intended as a general education course rather than a course for science majors.

 

I would also note that even if they do not accept the courses as credit, they may very well grant course approval for them (this is one thing you should ask), so that he wouldn't need to retake, say, calculus, even if he didn't get credit for it. He could then take more advanced courses in his major instead, which would put him in an advantageous position for graduate school.

[creekland]

Most of the applicants to Ivy League and other highly competitive schools will have a slate of AP and/or college courses on their transcripts. Many of these schools use AP or previous college courses for placement purposes only. When you make the call, you might want to ask the admissions officer if they would prefer to see AP. One thing that AP does is offer a standard syllabus, something that community colleges do not do. It is hard for universities to gauge the content of courses offered by CCs in other states.

 

I think that your son needs to understand that most colleges will not consider Precalculus a college level course--it really is high school material. Also, if he is going to major in astronomy or physics, colleges will often not accept introductory courses for the major. He may need to have Calculus under his belt before taking courses that "count" in these disciplines.

 

 

 

These were my thoughts as I read your original post too. So now, instead of typing them, I can click on this:

 

:iagree:

 

Even for my non-prestigious college soon-to-be freshman, no courses would count IN his major and credit would never have been given for Pre-Calc. Pre-Calc in cc is just a remedial class to get up to college level material.

 

For my "looking at more selective colleges" middle son, he's going to have cc classes and AP (hopefully - if I can find testing), but we don't expect any of it to count for credit. More selective schools do not trust the content of cc courses, esp in ones major. Having seen what I've seen from our local cc, I don't blame them. They are [generally] not equivalent to what I had at a 4 year University.

[creekland]

This has been on my mind a bit this morning, so I thought I'd respond again with a few more thoughts from experience.

 

With all the talk about checking into the college admissions/policies on transfer credit and dual credit courses.... I looked into it. My son's prefered school does not accept credit for college courses taken while in high school :thumbdown:

 

As noted before, this is common with many highly selective schools, however, they usually want to see AP or cc classes on the transcript to show ability.

 

Ds just took a computer course this year and earned 4 credits, and we decided to allow him to go ahead and take Precalculus I (web based), Chemistry I (classroom), and Astronomy (video/self paced based) this fall. Then in the spring semester take Precalculus II and Chemistry II. That will be 25 credits for him total by the time he is finished with 10th grade.

Are you certain these were all college level classes? At our cc (and others), there are several lower-than-college-level classes offered to get students up to learning about college level material. Our cc absolutely lets people know which classes are what, but never underestimate what info might have not been conveyed in your situation. Pre-Calc is never a college level course that I've seen, but it IS necessary to get up to Calc. If any student tests into Pre-Calc they start there. I suspect the credits your son got were just for high school, not college - EVEN if he stayed in cc. Chem and Astronomy might be the same way. I checked our info packet, and, if a student hasn't had high school Chem there is a different course they take first that only counts toward high school credit UNLESS they get permission to take the real course. There are also courses where credit will count for certain majors (like elementary ed), but won't count for science majors.

 

Do I not allow him to take anymore college courses until he finishes high school and make him "do" high school instead? I just feel that is holding him back and he has been through that for 9 years of public school system... We are homeschooling him so he can go his pace and take the college courses now that he is ready to do. He does not want to "waste" time doing high school courses when he can do college.

I think what you are doing is a good path for him, but it might be necessary to realize some of these courses are just high school classes offered at the cc. Many adults often need to take these courses too - just to get them back up to speed. It's not unusual. Then, when you consider that Columbia will want to see proof of ability, these (and future courses) aren't really for naught. Others are doing them too and will still start as freshmen there.

 

He is dx Asperger and if I have to hold him back, he will not accept it without a solid logical argument...

Neither way is holding him back. There are certain courses that are required for admission. The choice is do them there, at home or via AP. Or, the other choice is to set lower sights for his college degree.

 

The only other option I can think of, is for us to not move to NY as we are trying to do, and stay in IL and have him transfer to a Illinois university as there are transfer agreements between CC and the universities.

Even with these agreements, lower level classes won't transfer as mentioned above. The only ones that will are those deemed to be suitable for college credit (often designated by numbers - for ours, anything starting with a "0" for a course number won't count - and there are oodles of them). Yes, state U's will often accept what other places won't as it is their way of saying their cc courses are good enough. In some cases they probably are, but in my experience, not all of them are. Higher level schools recognize that some could be good, but since they don't know which are and which aren't, they throw them all out. These schools USED to allow more, but saw the knowledge level of many incoming freshmen and changed their policies. I know many blame it on $$, but, that's not really the cause. It does throw out the good with the bad, but short of other options... that's what they've decided.

 

It's also why many schools have said transfer credits may be used outside of ones major, but not in it. They want to guarantee a certain level of knowledge if their name is on the degree. We were told that from the beginning when we started our college search. Only really lower level colleges (or associated state schools) will transfer anything and everything.

 

Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I thought we had it all planned out...:tongue_smilie:

I have one going to college next year...and two more to line up. From my experience I know there will be more surprises. I just don't know what they will be! Things change annually - if not more often. Enjoy! If we didn't, we'd go crazy I think! :)

[AnitaMcC]

:iagree: 9th grade is early to decide on a college. He may change his mind. I'd let him take the courses anyway and realize that they may be viewed as high school courses.

 

Why? Because he may not get in to Columbia and needs to have a back-up plan.

 

 

That is what I told him... he isn't buying my explaination-LOL. Ugh I sometimes hate when he digs in his heels. :banghead:

[AnitaMcC]

This is what we're finally getting across to our Aspie. He decided what he wanted to go to college for in 8th grade (meteorology). No budging. Well, that is all well and good, but undergrad meteorology programs (certified) are few and far between, and regardless, all have physics at their base.

 

After much pushing and prodding, we have convinced him to go for a physics undergrad and THEN (if he is still set on it) pursue meteorology for grad school. I think our kids forget that they are going to grow up and change. Even Aspies (for whom all change is bad... ;)).

a

 

 

LOL, isn't that the truth...:001_smile:

[EKS]

My son will be going to community college full time beginning in 11th grade. The colleges he is interested in do not accept transfer credit. That is perfectly fine with him and me because he will not be attending cc with the sole purpose of getting transfer credit; he wants to be challenged.

[AnitaMcC]

I think that your son needs to understand that most colleges will not consider Precalculus a college level course--it really is high school material. Also, if he is going to major in astronomy or physics, colleges will often not accept introductory courses for the major. He may need to have Calculus under his belt before taking courses that "count" in these disciplines.

 

Perhaps another idea to consider is attending Columbia for graduate school. That way he could apply these CC courses to an undergraduate degree at a public university in your current state of residence.

 

 

Astronomy and Precalculus won't count towards a degree but the plan is for him to have Calculus 1-3, Engineering Physics 1-3, Chem 1 & 2 before transfer (which is required for U of I transfers, in addition he must have Intro to Astronomy course before transfer (even though it is not a degree credit)). If I read it correctly... Ugh all of this is soooo complicated now days. It was so easy for me and I was a bioengineering major :willy_nilly:

 

So I have to convince him to attend a public university for his bachelor degree before Columbia U.

[AnitaMcC]

Are you certain these were all college level classes? At our cc (and others), there are several lower-than-college-level classes offered to get students up to learning about college level material. Our cc absolutely lets people know which classes are what, but never underestimate what info might have not been conveyed in your situation. Pre-Calc is never a college level course that I've seen, but it IS necessary to get up to Calc. If any student tests into Pre-Calc they start there. I suspect the credits your son got were just for high school, not college - EVEN if he stayed in cc. Chem and Astronomy might be the same way. I checked our info packet, and, if a student hasn't had high school Chem there is a different course they take first that only counts toward high school credit UNLESS they get permission to take the real course. There are also courses where credit will count for certain majors (like elementary ed), but won't count for science majors.

 

Yes the Chemistry 101 and 102 courses he is to take are the college level. He is doing high school chemistry now and will finish up by July. The precalculus is needed for him to get into calculus. He tested into accelerated precalculus but we are having him do it the two semester set instead of the combined course.

 

The astronomy may not count towards his degree at the university but it is required for him to complete it to transfer to U of Illinois as a transfer in astronomy/astrophysics.

 

Even with these agreements, lower level classes won't transfer as mentioned above.

 

 

 

The transfer agreement is called the Illinois Articulation Initiative. It is for the general education core curriculum courses. It is a guarantee that transfering students will be granted the equivalent credit for the entire general education program (is is a package deal). So the first two years are completed at the CC/Jr college and the last two years to be done at the four year school.

Ds took the placement tests for the CC a year ago. He placed in college level courses if the prerequisites are met. Only two prereqs he needs are precalculus I and high school chemistry. He needs to do precalculus (his algebra and geometry were waived based on his test scores although I have been having him do algebra 2 and geometry anyway at home just to make sure). For Chem 101 he needs a year of high school chemistry or take Chem 100. Chem 100 is full this summer and fall semesters. So he is doing the high school chem at home (with help from a friend of mine). He is breezing through it no problem. He placed in college level courses for all other subjects.

 

To transfer to U of Illinois, he has to complete Chem 101, Chem 102, Calculus 1-3, Engineering Physics 1-3, Astronomy, Computer, Rhetoric 1-2, Speech, and 2 semesters of a foreign language.

[Jane in NC]

The transfer agreement is called the Illinois Articulation Initiative. It is for the general education core curriculum courses. It is a guarantee that transfering students will be granted the equivalent credit for the entire general education program (is is a package deal). So the first two years are completed at the CC/Jr college and the last two years to be done at the four year school.

 

 

Anita,

 

What several of us were reacting to, I believe, was the expectation that Columbia or any highly competitive college would have a similar articulation agreement. Most states have these agreements in place for their CC and University system. But private colleges rarely honor them. And a highly selective Ivy like Columbia will have applicants with similar backgrounds--a number of college courses through AP or dual enrollment. Your son would be with peers upon matriculation as a freshman.

 

I took a quick look at Columbia's admissions page. In addition to the two SAT subject tests that all Columbia applicants must take, homeschooled students are required to take two additional tests. You probably want to start thinking about your strategy for taking these exams if your son plans on applying to Columbia or other highly selective schools. Colleges with this requirement will usually not take CC credit in lieu of these exams. Remember they want to compare apples to apples in the admissions process.

 

Another cautionary flag I would like to raise: is your son sufficiently mature to manage college life outside of the classroom or outside of math and science? Is he ready for some of the discussions of adult issues that can take place in English courses for example? You say he digs in his heels. Would he do that in a classroom situation, say foreign language or something that may not be as natural to him as the math and science?

 

Good luck.

Jane

[Ellie]

He does not want to "waste" time doing high school courses when he can do college.

He sounds like a smart cookie. I say graduate him.:)

[AnitaMcC]

Anita,

 

What several of us were reacting to, I believe, was the expectation that Columbia or any highly competitive college would have a similar articulation agreement. Most states have these agreements in place for their CC and University system. But private colleges rarely honor them. And a highly selective Ivy like Columbia will have applicants with similar backgrounds--a number of college courses through AP or dual enrollment. Your son would be with peers upon matriculation as a freshman.

 

I took a quick look at Columbia's admissions page. In addition to the two SAT subject tests that all Columbia applicants must take, homeschooled students are required to take two additional tests. You probably want to start thinking about your strategy for taking these exams if your son plans on applying to Columbia or other highly selective schools. Colleges with this requirement will usually not take CC credit in lieu of these exams. Remember they want to compare apples to apples in the admissions process.

 

Another cautionary flag I would like to raise: is your son sufficiently mature to manage college life outside of the classroom or outside of math and science? Is he ready for some of the discussions of adult issues that can take place in English courses for example? You say he digs in his heels. Would he do that in a classroom situation, say foreign language or something that may not be as natural to him as the math and science?

 

Good luck.

Jane

 

Good points you all have given me to think about. I love coming here to ask you all for advice!!!!!!

 

It isn't that I expected them to give credit in all the courses from a CC. I actually expected that not all the courses would transfer. I just thought that core courses would be a safe bet (for the most part).

 

It just that I am finding out that the courses that are taken in high school or used as dual credit won't be accepted as transfer credits. That is what I didn't know.

 

I was confused as to what would be best route for my son now that I do know that the courses won't transfer.

 

I guess I am going to have to hold him off on taking Chemistry 101 and such until later or have him do AP exams. It is just than he would benefit more with the academic interaction he would get in a college classroom. But he can still take the precalculus and astronomy courses.

 

As for maturity... he does pretty well. He is way more comfortable with adults than with kids his age. He is very logical and is very strong in discussions. Content material isn't an issue really... not at this time. We would only allow him to take math and science courses for now. Also I have no intentions of sending him off to college before he is 18. We want him to attend the jr college near home until then. We want to allow him to take college courses in the subjects areas that he is ready to do while in high school, instead of having him do high school level as he would be bored and unhappy.

[AnitaMcC]

He sounds like a smart cookie. I say graduate him.:)

 

 

I would... but how?

 

He has only finished one year of high school. He has enough math and science credit. But not English and Social Studies. He does still need some extra practice in writing. He is just so way advanced in math and science for his age.

[Laurie4b]

I don't see the advantage in withdrawing him from cc to do high school at home. When you say they don't accept credits, I thought that you meant the credits won't be accepted as college credits, not that they wouldn't be accepted as high school credits.

 

It's not that uncommon for in state colleges & univ. to accept credits from their own cc's; however a good number of schools (especially private schools) want your college credits to come from them. Some don't accept AP's either.

[creekland]

Good points you all have given me to think about. I love coming here to ask you all for advice!!!!!!

 

It isn't that I expected them to give credit in all the courses from a CC. I actually expected that not all the courses would transfer. I just thought that core courses would be a safe bet (for the most part).

 

It just that I am finding out that the courses that are taken in high school or used as dual credit won't be accepted as transfer credits. That is what I didn't know.

 

 

 

I agree that this is a great place to come for advice - I know it's helped me quite a bit and I'm still learning.

 

Less and less colleges are accepting high school college credits - or even cc college credits - mainly because they can't trust the credit given in them. I work in our local public high school. I see what our "college" classes give credit for (both in our school and from cc). It isn't the same as years back as there is quite a bit of grade inflation and very few failures. Material isn't always covered either. Some students do very well and would be well prepared. Some don't. A bit depends on the professor they get. All tend to get credit. Colleges don't know who deserves the credit and who doesn't, so they default to not being able to trust these courses. Professors at selective colleges simply weren't happy with the level of knowledge coming to them.

 

With regards to AP, I remember way back when I went to college that my Bio essays had to be sent to my college for their professors to look at before they would give AP credit - for a 5. I'm not sure if that's still done anywhere or not.

 

I fully understand their decision, but I agree with you, it is a bit of a frustration. However, to get a degree from a highly selective school, it is definitely in their best interest to "guarantee" the level of education behind the degree.

 

State schools do give credit for their own cc feeder schools. That is a viable option should you go that route. It's certainly less expensive. If you're still planning on moving to NY you might check to see if any state u's in NY (SUNY schools) will give credit - they just might. Or they might at least give credit for courses outside the major (which is what many other private schools do).

[kiana]

FWIW: Both of my (homeschooled) brothers transferred to Cornell U(another excellent university in NY), one after a year at a state uni in Wisconsin, the other after 2 years at a community college in NY. In both cases, a majority of the credits taken transferred, although they didn't accept courses like College Algebra.

 

Although right now he's sure he wants to go to Columbia, wanting the transfer credits might change his mind when he gets closer to 17.

[Jane in NC]

FWIW: Both of my (homeschooled) brothers transferred to Cornell U(another excellent university in NY), one after a year at a state uni in Wisconsin, the other after 2 years at a community college in NY. In both cases, a majority of the credits taken transferred, although they didn't accept courses like College Algebra.

 

 

Cornell is sort of in its own class as a university given that it is more of a hybrid school, private but has land grant (public) colleges within the system. In recent years, the Jack Kent Cooke Foundation has funded a program for CC transfers. Perhaps other colleges will see this as innovative?

 

Good for your brothers! I wonder though if colleges are more amenable to accept transfer credits after a student has completed high school. My son is attending College of Wooster in the fall. I copied this from the registrar's website regarding transfer credit that is not accepted:

 

* On-line courses

* Distance Education courses

* College Level Examination Program (CLEP)

* Participation in programs sponsored by the National Outdoor Leadership Schools (NOLS)

* Participation in programs sponsored by the Semester at Sea

* Credit earned for college-level courses that are taught by college instructors in the high school

* Credit earned through a dual credit program (college credits being applied for high school degree completion)

* Transfer courses or proficiency scores that are submitted for subjects that appear to be equivalent.

 

Transfer credit that is accepted:

 

Credits awarded for the below listed categories are dependent on the scores received by the student and by the subjects included in the Wooster curriculum.

 

* British Advanced-Level Examinations (A-Levels): Marks of A or B are considered.

* International Baccalaureate (IB):Scores of 6 or 7 are considered for Higher-Level Examinations.

* Caribbean Advanced Proficiency Examinations (CAPE):Scores of I, II, or III are considered.

* Advanced Placement (AP): Scores vary based on the subject of the exam.

 

These policies seem fairly typical of other college policies that I have seen although I wonder what they have against NOLS and Semester at Sea since I have known people who have done both for college credit!

[Bev in B'ville]

at a local CC. I could have graduated her early, but I decided not to. Now, for a little background, I taught at a major university for a while (psychology) so my viewpoint is probably not typical. My dd's cc classes are ONLY for high school credit. I am writing that into her counselor letter for each college/university she's applying to, asking them to not accept any transfer credit for courses taken at the cc. Why? The bottom line is there is so much maturing and life experiences beyond the academic that occurs in the four years of college. Why rush that? Those are very important formative years for that age. What's the rush to graduate college early? I want my dd to go into her college/university experience as an incoming freshman, bond and make friends with the other incoming freshman. Those friendships, especially if they have the same major, usually last throughout the college experience, if not beyond. I think there is a major disadvantage to the student who is younger than his peers transferring in as a junior or a senior.

 

As always, JMHO.

[Jane in NC]

at a local CC. I could have graduated her early' date=' but I decided not to. Now, for a little background, I taught at a major university for a while (psychology) so my viewpoint is probably not typical. My dd's cc classes are ONLY for high school credit. I am writing that into her counselor letter for each college/university she's applying to, asking them to not accept any transfer credit for courses taken at the cc. Why? The bottom line is there is so much maturing and life experiences beyond the academic that occurs in the four years of college. Why rush that? Those are very important formative years for that age. What's the rush to graduate college early? I want my dd to go into her college/university experience as an incoming freshman, bond and make friends with the other incoming freshman. Those friendships, especially if they have the same major, usually last throughout the college experience, if not beyond. I think there is a major disadvantage to the student who is younger than his peers transferring in as a junior or a senior.

 

As always, JMHO.[/quote']

 

Bev,

 

This is a very good point. There is so much more to college than credits and course work, more than a list of things to be checked off before a degree is earned. Or there should be...(says Jane of the Ivory Tower!)

[creekland]

at a local CC. I could have graduated her early' date=' but I decided not to. Now, for a little background, I taught at a major university for a while (psychology) so my viewpoint is probably not typical. My dd's cc classes are ONLY for high school credit. I am writing that into her counselor letter for each college/university she's applying to, asking them to not accept any transfer credit for courses taken at the cc. Why? The bottom line is there is so much maturing and life experiences beyond the academic that occurs in the four years of college. Why rush that? Those are very important formative years for that age. What's the rush to graduate college early? I want my dd to go into her college/university experience as an incoming freshman, bond and make friends with the other incoming freshman. Those friendships, especially if they have the same major, usually last throughout the college experience, if not beyond. I think there is a major disadvantage to the student who is younger than his peers transferring in as a junior or a senior.

 

As always, JMHO.[/quote']

 

:iagree:

 

I am letting my son keep 3 credits of English if approved by his college, but that's because he's double majoring (not English) and can use the time to fit another course in. Hubby and I enjoyed our four years and want our boys to enjoy theirs - as well as get their degree(s). It's also why I'm planning on all of them attending 4 year schools from the beginning - not transferring in.

[Musicmom]

at a local CC. I could have graduated her early' date=' but I decided not to. Now, for a little background, I taught at a major university for a while (psychology) so my viewpoint is probably not typical. My dd's cc classes are ONLY for high school credit. I am writing that into her counselor letter for each college/university she's applying to, asking them to not accept any transfer credit for courses taken at the cc. Why? The bottom line is there is so much maturing and life experiences beyond the academic that occurs in the four years of college. Why rush that? Those are very important formative years for that age. What's the rush to graduate college early? I want my dd to go into her college/university experience as an incoming freshman, bond and make friends with the other incoming freshman. Those friendships, especially if they have the same major, usually last throughout the college experience, if not beyond. I think there is a major disadvantage to the student who is younger than his peers transferring in as a junior or a senior.

 

As always, JMHO.[/quote']

:iagree:This is one reason we didn't even bother to do AP tests (we used SAT Subject tests to demonstrate proficiency). We knew our ds was headed toward selective and challenging schools, and we wanted him to enter as a freshman.

 

I'm a little baffled by this concern over credit transfer... did you have your heart set on early college graduation for him? Or need him to only spend a couple years at a university for financial reasons? Or is it just the mindset shift... I also found out about the 9th grade timeframe that our local CC credits don't even transfer to our state schools (except for one)!!!

 

Your ds sounds incredibly bright to me, and I would urge you to make high school and college plans based on what's going to give him the best education, not based on whether credits will transfer. If it were me, I'd keep him at the CC for high school, and keep him moving forward and challenged. I'd go for Columbia (just sounds to me like he "belongs" in a school like that, which can really challenge him and take him far), and I would do everything I could to improve his chances of being accepted (by the way, doing college level work throughout high school, showing that he's taken the most challenging course of study available to him, will look really good for his applications--top schools look for this.) I would also have him look at and apply to other top schools that offer programs in his field of interest, and I would look for a number of "safety-net" schools--such as state universities, that again, have excellent reputations in his field, and yet are pretty sure bets for him to get into. He'll need to apply to a variety of schools because, even with the best of credentials, and everything else going for him, there's still a possibility that he might not get in to Columbia.

 

I'd just count the CC courses for high school and let the credits fall where they will upon college entrance. Most colleges will place students into the appropriate courses via placement exams, so you don't even need to worry about that.

 

HTH!

[FaithManor]

Most of our larger state universities and nearly all of our private ones do not accept community college credits in general. I think this is because our c.c.'s are filled with not only dual enrollment high schoolers but many G.E.D. students. The Michigan G.E.D. only tests to a basic tenth grade knowledge and very, very, little algebra so the assumption is that a high percentage of the classes are functioning at a lower level than would be offered at a four-year college. This is one reason that we ended up not sending dd to c.c. during high school. I was able to find materials that would challenge her without having to pay for credits that weren't really going to transfer plus the hassle of the commuting.

 

We would have sent her to c.c. if we had needed to "prove' her abilities. However, in Michigan, it seems that the universities are pretty accustomed to homeschoolers doing well in their midst and we never had any issues with this. She was actively pursued by many college admission's departments based on her home issued transcript and letters of recommendation.

 

Something to consider might be the M.I.T. open coursework classes for highschoolers. I have been out on the website and am impressed with the plethora of class materials offered for free. Though they do not get involved with how parents or teachers implement the programs so they do not offer "credit" for distance learning, the course work is college level if done in one semester and the guidelines for coursework are followed. We plan on using these courses for DS 13. I will issue a curriculum list with ds's transcript so it will show that we availed ourselves of their materials. As a junior and senior, he will be required to complete these classes within a typical college semester.

 

Faith

[Jane in NC]

 

I'm a little baffled by this concern over credit transfer... did you have your heart set on early college graduation for him? Or need him to only spend a couple years at a university for financial reasons? Or is it just the mindset shift...

 

I do think that a number of parents on this board and in the world at large are looking to save a few dollars via their CC system and/or AP. In some cases, there are highly motivated students who just want to "get on with it", i.e. focus on their field of interest and leave the basic requirements behind.

 

But I think that the crux of the matter is a philosophical one. From reading these ongoing discussions, it seems that many people believe that General Chem I or Basic Composition is the same course everywhere, whether it is offered by a CC, a regional university or a highly selective college. There are anecdotes of wonderful or horrible instructors at all types of schools. Enter the for-profit online universities which seem to have minimal requirements for credit. Attempting to even compare these experiences seems challenging!

 

Of course every family's circumstances vary. There are some students who will have to live at home either for the savings or to assist their families with care giving or other chores. Some of us want to push our fledglings out into the world. As much as I love my son, I think it is important that he attend college in another region of the country as a mind broadening experience. Not everyone sees eye to eye with that nor does everyone have a child who wants to be that far from home.

 

But as I noted earlier, I think that college is more than a check list of courses taken. Truly glad that many options are available...

 

Jane

[AnitaMcC]

I'm a little baffled by this concern over credit transfer... did you have your heart set on early college graduation for him? Or need him to only spend a couple years at a university for financial reasons?

 

Your ds sounds incredibly bright to me, and I would urge you to make high school and college plans based on what's going to give him the best education, not based on whether credits will transfer.

 

I'd just count the CC courses for high school and let the credits fall where they will upon college entrance. Most colleges will place students into the appropriate courses via placement exams, so you don't even need to worry about that.

 

HTH!

 

He is the one who does not want to "waste time" doing high school courses nor does he want to "waste time" to repeat college courses just because he took them as a high schooler. And it is extremely hard to change his mind once he is set. :banghead:

 

The reason we are concerned about transfer credit is that he will be earning an associates degree while in high school. Completing the math (calculus 1-3) and science sequences (engineering physics 1-4 and chemistry 1-2) that he needs for his bachelor degree in astrophysics, while still in high school is the problem. These are required courses for the degree in astrophysics and are completed in the freshman/sophmore years of college.

 

I think we will graduate him after 10th grade (next year) is completed. So next year he will just have to work hard at getting more done in some of the subjects he is lacking enough credits in (mainly English and Social Studies). This way he will just start college full time when he typically would do 11th/12th grades attending CC near home. We will hold him off taking Chemisty 1 and 2 at CC until later. Next year he will just take courses that won't "matter" if he doesn't get transfer credits.

 

He is mature enough to handle college. He is an Aspie and he only can see what he wants to accomplish. Being with peers his age is not important at all. Being with people who can discuss black holes, crashing gallaxies, and thermal nuclear physics is what he cares about and the sooner he can be with these people the better.:tongue_smilie:

[Chris in VA]

I think we will graduate him after 10th grade (next year) is completed. So next year he will just have to work hard at getting more done in some of the subjects he is lacking enough credits in (mainly English and Social Studies). This way he will just start college full time when he typically would do 11th/12th grades attending CC near home. We will hold him off taking Chemisty 1 and 2 at CC until later. Next year he will just take courses that won't "matter" if he doesn't get transfer credits.

 

Could you do this--

Teach him at home all that you want to for 10th grade, keep him as a high schooler for records purposes, but send him to CC for 11th and 12th while maintaining his high school/homeschooler status. Let him earn his AA, but list that as an accomplishment he did in high school.

 

It's merely semantics, but it would show he got dual credit, according to the CC. If the university didn't accept it as credit, he still can put his Associate's Degree after his name. And that is great for admissions. As far as needing to retake any classes, well, check and see if the classes he'd like to take at CC are available for CLEP credit or some other placement/test out situation. He may not have to retake. Or he might, but he'll still learn something new if he does (and the proof will be that he didn't pass the test, so he'll know there's new content he needs, and that should ease his "anger" at having to retake, if he has any).

 

So, question: Can he take full time class hours at the CC as a high school student? Here in VA, you can only take 11 hours each semester if you are under 18.

[Bev in B'ville]

Just because he has a degree does NOT mean the college will accept it in its entirety. Colleges, and specifically programs within colleges, can be very picky in what they accept. For example, after my Master's Degree I applied and was accepted to a Doctorate program at another school. They accepted my degree, but I was made to retake all of my stats classes (which were many in my field of study), because they considered their stats classes a "higher caliber." I ended up beginning my program with the people who were just starting their master's degrees. The only difference between me and them was I didn't have to do a master's thesis again, just my doctorate dissertation. Looking back, I would have been better off either a) having completed my doctorate at the same school I received my master's at, or b) having started and completed my graduate studies at the other school. You will come across the same thing with CC classes transferring into other schools. They may not even recognize his AA degree at all, in which case he'll begin as any new incoming freshman.

 

Just a heads up.

[8filltheheart]

He is the one who does not want to "waste time" doing high school courses nor does he want to "waste time" to repeat college courses just because he took them as a high schooler. And it is extremely hard to change his mind once he is set. :banghead:

 

The reason we are concerned about transfer credit is that he will be earning an associates degree while in high school. Completing the math (calculus 1-3) and science sequences (engineering physics 1-4 and chemistry 1-2) that he needs for his bachelor degree in astrophysics, while still in high school is the problem. These are required courses for the degree in astrophysics and are completed in the freshman/sophmore years of college.

 

I think we will graduate him after 10th grade (next year) is completed. So next year he will just have to work hard at getting more done in some of the subjects he is lacking enough credits in (mainly English and Social Studies). This way he will just start college full time when he typically would do 11th/12th grades attending CC near home. We will hold him off taking Chemisty 1 and 2 at CC until later. Next year he will just take courses that won't "matter" if he doesn't get transfer credits.

 

He is mature enough to handle college. He is an Aspie and he only can see what he wants to accomplish. Being with peers his age is not important at all. Being with people who can discuss black holes, crashing gallaxies, and thermal nuclear physics is what he cares about and the sooner he can be with these people the better.:tongue_smilie:

 

Anita,

 

I didn't read all the responses in this thread.....only your posts.

 

Our Aspie just graduated and has his mind set on being an orthopedic surgeon which is not a realistic goal at all for our ds (he has fine motor control issues! Not something you want to see in your surgeon!) Anyway, I can fully commiserate with the "set in stone" mentality (though it actually feels like it must be set in "diamonds" b/c of the extreme hardness, not the beauty!!)

 

I would suggest contacting an admissions officer at Columbia directly. If your ds is anything like my ds and most Aspies in general, hearing information from an authority on the matter will make an impression. Another contact might be the dean of the astrophysics dept. Perhaps he or she would be willing to engage in an email dialogue with your ds in about how he should plan to meet his future objectives with success. That guidance might open all sorts of currently unconsidered options.

 

FWIW....I wouldn't go the CC route or early graduation but that is just complete bias on my part. I don't view CC courses as equivalent to courses at technical universities. Have you looked at Art of Problem Solving for math? They are right up the alley for deep math thinkers. I have a 14 yos who thrives on their math. http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/ He also currently has his heart set on astrophysics as a career.

 

Completely off topic, but did you listen to the link Jane posted to the audio about God and math? My 14 yos listened to it last night. :D As another astrophysics lover, your ds might enjoy it.

[JFSinIL]

I'd call U of I and make an appointment to go in with this smart kid and find a person there in admissions who can be a mentor and help plan the next few years. He is obviously one of those bright kids ready to start college in their early teens.

Plus, he make take advice from a College Person better than a parent (including not to assume just because HE plans to go to Columbia that Columbia will take him! Although I bet they do!!!)

[Nan in Mass]

Probably not much comfort but we have people at our CC thinking over the same sorts of things: Will he be able to jump straight into engineering classes? Will they transfer when he goes off to a 4-year engineering school? Do we want them to transfer? How will the science and math mesh? And he doesn't really get it.

-Nan

[TravelingChris]

I would keep good records and pray that he be more flexible as he gets older. I know my d who is not an aspie but has a few of those tendencies has gotten more flexible as she has gotten older. Admission to Columbia University or any of the very selective schools isn't a given for anybody, no matter how high scoring. I wouldn't get into any arguments about it now, so many years out, but just keep it in your mind that he will need to apply to more schools unless he gets ED to Columbia (and I don't know if they offer it since some Ivies have gotten rid of ED). I do know it won't be the same class. My dh took AP Physics in high school and then physics in college, starting with class one. He wasn't bored, he was challenged though probaby not as much as people who didn't have AP Physics. Our college, at that time. didn't allow AP tests any credit. They wanted everyone to take their classes and while my AP English class had been at a high level, very similar to college, other students had AP classes that weren't up to par at all. I met one student who had graduated out of Houston TX public school and had never written a single paper. He was a nervous mess his freshman year because of his poor preparation. THe point is that there are good reasons colleges want everyone who graduates to take certain course expecially in their major.

[Beth in OH]

My son is attending College of Wooster in the fall.

 

Hey Jane--

 

Give me a yell if your ds ever needs any emergency help while he's in Ohio! I'll gladly go be a "mom for a day"! (Wouldn't that embarrass the heck out of a college age young man?) Seriously, though, you neve know when you might need someone to get there quickly.

 

Beth

[AnitaMcC]

Thank you everyone for your advice and input!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I am hoping that all works out. We have talked to our son and we will think hard and contact 3-4 universities that has the astrophysics program and see what they say.

 

For right now I think we will go with him doing for 10th grade next year:

 

1 credit English Language and Composition

1 credit Themed Literature (science fiction first semester) (still to decided second semester)

1 credit United States History

1 credit U.S. Government/Economics

2 credits Precalculus 1 and 2 (at CC)

2 credits Chemistry first semester, Physics second semester (MIT open courseware as much as possible).

1 credit Spanish

1 credit Astronomy (at CC) first semester, 1 credit of something else at CC second semester

 

That will be 8 courses each semester (with him doubling up math and science credits). He will start 10th grade July 19th, and will have 11 months to finish them. Figure that way he has longer time frame to get more done.

 

If he does this then we will officially graduate him at the end of 10th grade. He will have:

4 credits language arts,

3 credits social studies,

5 credits math,

5+ credits science,

1 credit Spanish,

1 credit health,

2 credits PE,

1/2 credit driver's ed

for a total of 21 1/2 credits.

 

I know he is capable of doing this if he really wants to do what he wants. If he doesn't, then no biggie... we will just readjust to a slower pace and he graduates later. It is totally up to him on what he wants to accomplish. Also this way, he won't be "wasting" college credits but he will get the challenge he needs in math and science. He will take as many AP exams he wants and if credits don't transfer then no big deal. He isn't totally happy with this... but he is sort of accepting that there really isn't any other options available at this time. We will keep checking into it and then go from there if anything comes up that may be a better path for him.

 

And in the mean time he will contact several schools and talk to the academic advisors in his field of intended study.

[Guest 4crazyboys]

I have a son the same age as yours and we are in a similar situation since he is gifted in the science and math areas. I looked over your course plans and one thing caught my eye...foreign language...as far as I know U of I wants 2-4 years of the same foreign language. Just an FYI, hope my son can do half as well as yours!!

[8filltheheart]

If he does this then we will officially graduate him at the end of 10th grade. He will have:

4 credits language arts,

3 credits social studies,

5 credits math,

5+ credits science,

1 credit Spanish,

1 credit health,

2 credits PE,

1/2 credit driver's ed

for a total of 21 1/2 credits.

 

.

 

Anita,

 

Just a thought b/c I shared that I have a ds that is very serious about astrophysics, but.........please read this in the very caring gentle tone in which I am really trying to share........what you have listed above is not really competitive for a top tier school. My oldest really needed more credits than that just to be competitive in getting into a public university for engineering.

 

My rising astrophysics loving 9th grader's transcript will look something like this by the time he graduates:

 

prior to 9th grade:

alg 1, geo, alg 2, alg 3, alg based physics, counting and probability (a 1/2 credit), French 1

 

plus not for credit but on his transcript.....math camp and math competition, volunteer work, acceptance into CTY

 

9th grade:

precal

chemistry

French 2

World Geography

English 9

astronomy (I think. I am trying figure this one out right now)

health/pe

 

plus not for credit: Teaching Co discrete math, math prep for math competitions, volunteer work, Eagle, probably another math or science camp

 

By the time he finishes high school, I fully expect him to have completed about 9-11 math credits (there is a world of math out there beyond alg-cal sequence. Probability, number theory, discrete math, etc) He will probably have a minimum of 6 science credits, a minimum of 3 foreign language (I would like to see him take it for at least 4 yrs but French is the one subject he absolutely detests, so once he has finished French 3, I might let him take Latin instead)

 

All of that is in addition to your typical 4 English, 4 history, etc.

 

Unfortunately, I don't even know if that will make him competitive enough for admission to a top-tier school. In talking to others that have been admitted but know people who have had stellar applications that have not been accepted, I have really been preparing my ds for the very real possibility that he won't get accepted to some of the places he has his heart set on. It is extremely competitive.

 

Keep in mind that applicants from other states may not even be eligible for a diploma with 21.5 credits. Many states require a minimum of 22, some require as many as 28. Those are the students our kids are competing against for the same spot. Also, well-rounded community type activity is a bonus (though I know that that is extremely difficult with an Aspie.) I couldn't find a comparable link on Columbia's site, but here are some suggestions from MIT http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/homeschooled_applicants_helpful_tips/homeschooled_applicants.shtml

 

I guess I would worry less about seeing him as approaching having "too much" b/c I think he looks on target to be highly competitive if he actually completes his appropriate course work through 12th grade. (not to mention he might be a better candidate for merit scholarships if he keeps forging ahead in high school.)

Edited May 25, 2010 by 8FillTheHeart

[mcconnellboys]

Could you allow him to start at a school that will accept the credits, then transfer to a different school? Would that work?

[AnitaMcC]

I have a son the same age as yours and we are in a similar situation since he is gifted in the science and math areas. I looked over your course plans and one thing caught my eye...foreign language...as far as I know U of I wants 2-4 years of the same foreign language. Just an FYI, hope my son can do half as well as yours!!

 

 

ROFL... my son still has a lot of growing up. Which is why we will not send him off to college for 3-4 years still. Being academically gifted doesn't always match maturity level.

 

Anyway, I am just having him do one year of Spanish at home this year... the next year when he goes to CC full time he will finish the foreign language sequence to meet U of I and many other university requirements.

[AnitaMcC]

Anita,

 

Just a thought b/c I shared that I have a ds that is very serious about astrophysics, but.........please read this in the very caring gentle tone in which I am really trying to share........what you have listed above is not really competitive for a top tier school. My oldest really needed more credits than that just to be competitive in getting into a public university for engineering.

 

By the time he finishes high school, I fully expect him to have completed about 9-11 math credits (there is a world of math out there beyond alg-cal sequence. Probability, number theory, discrete math, etc) He will probably have a minimum of 6 science credits, a minimum of 3 foreign language (I would like to see him take it for at least 4 yrs but French is the one subject he absolutely detests, so once he has finished French 3, I might let him take Latin instead)

 

All of that is in addition to your typical 4 English, 4 history, etc.

 

Keep in mind that applicants from other states may not even be eligible for a diploma with 21.5 credits. Many states require a minimum of 22, some require as many as 28. Those are the students our kids are competing against for the same spot. Also, well-rounded community type activity is a bonus (though I know that that is extremely difficult with an Aspie.) I couldn't find a comparable link on Columbia's site, but here are some suggestions from MIT http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/homeschooled_applicants_helpful_tips/homeschooled_applicants.shtml

 

I guess I would worry less about seeing him as approaching having "too much" b/c I think he looks on target to be highly competitive if he actually completes his appropriate course work through 12th grade. (not to mention he might be a better candidate for merit scholarships if he keeps forging ahead in high school.)

 

 

Excellent points!!!

 

I haven't seen anything from colleges that specify a minimum number of credits they expect for a high schooler to complete to graduate high school. Only what they are looking for admissions for freshman. Our public high school graduate their students with 21 credits. So there isn't a problem with number of credits he will have based on what other Illinois graduates will have in our schools. He will have way more math and science than most of the IL graduates.

 

I will research more about it though. We have plenty of time to "fill in" if need be. The key is flexibility... if he ends up needing more before he graduates then we just hold off formally graduating by a semester or two. Again we are making sure we are flexible. We just came up with a plan for now... we can always change paths as needed.

 

As for extracurricular activities: no problem there.... He is in Civil Air Patrol (he already has over 30 hours of community service hours this year in addition to the CAP meetings and training classes), bowling league, Kung Fu, and Religious Education. Plus he participates in a homeschooling group and actually we are planning on starting up a high school social/discussion group. He and Dd will get that going with Dh and I just supervising and guiding them.

 

For scholarships... he will apply for several and since I am a disabled veteran he qualifies for veteran dependent educational program and scholarships. He already has some scholarships from bowling. He has been to several tournaments and has many more to go. And for him to go to an Ivy League school... well he just has to get a full ride scholarship and to be honest I seriously doubt he will get that regardless of how hard he works for it. He knows it will be competitive for scholarships and admission to Columbia University. I have told him that he will need to be prepared to attend a public university for his undergraduate degree.

 

I have had several discussions with him the last few days and so has his dad. We think he is at least starting to see the reality of it all. So we shall see what happens the next year...

[AnitaMcC]

Could you allow him to start at a school that will accept the credits, then transfer to a different school? Would that work?

 

That is the plan... he likely will complete the Illinois articulation program and transfer to U of Illinois for undergraduate degree. Then do a master/doctorate degrees at another school.

 

If we do get to move to NY... we will worry about that if/when the time comes. Stonybrook University (SUNY) has an astrophysics program if I remember correctly and it is on Long Island where we would move to.

[AnitaMcC]

Keep in mind that applicants from other states may not even be eligible for a diploma with 21.5 credits. Many states require a minimum of 22, some require as many as 28. Those are the students our kids are competing against for the same spot. Also, well-rounded community type activity is a bonus (though I know that that is extremely difficult with an Aspie.) I couldn't find a comparable link on Columbia's site, but here are some suggestions from MIT http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/homeschooled_applicants_helpful_tips/homeschooled_applicants.shtml

 

 

 

 

I looked at MIT and it does not require a high school diploma nor a GED. And they accept college credit for courses taken during high school!!!! This is awesome!!!!!

 

And for high school courses it recommends only the following:

We recommend that your high school years include the following:

 

 

• One year of high school physics

• One year of high school chemistry

• One year of high school biology

• Math, through calculus

• Two years of a foreign language

• Four years of English

• Two years of history and/or social sciences

I don't think Ds will have a problem with MIT... he will have these (except the biology isn't in our plans so we need to add this) and more. The foreign language he will do one year high school and then do two years at CC.

 

I will keep researching.... I am sure I will find out more about different schools and their requirements.

 

You all are a fountain of knowledge and help!!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited May 26, 2010 by AnitaMcC

[NCMom]

That is the plan... he likely will complete the Illinois articulation program and transfer to U of Illinois for undergraduate degree. Then do a master/doctorate degrees at another school.

 

If we do get to move to NY... we will worry about that if/when the time comes. Stonybrook University (SUNY) has an astrophysics program if I remember correctly and it is on Long Island where we would move to.

 

Disclaimer: I have nothing against starting at a CC; I have two that have gone/will go the CC route.

 

And I think if he does go to U of IL then the CC/Associates is a good plan. My youngest has a very similar plan. CC two years in high school, finish at a local LAC that happens to have a great program for what she wants and then grad school at a more prestigious institution if she so desires. Most of the CC degree will transfer to her LAC choice. They have a clear transfer agreement in place.

 

But if he REALLY wants to start of at Columbia, or one of the other names in Astrophysics (Princeton, Cal-tech maybe??) then I think I would focus on AP, SAT II tests, projects, and doing ~something~ in his chosen field. I just feel that an associates is not going to be very meaningful in this situation and I'm basing this on our research into competitive schools. My middle is in this boat. Two of her top 3 picks are highly competitive and so she will focus on testing well, advanced coursework, physical fitness/sports (2 are required/strongly suggested for her top pick) and distinguishing herself in various ways.

 

I almost want wonder if it will limit him to pursue the CC degree at the expense of more in depth, focused preparation. It sounds like he could really set his sights very high. Astrophysics does seem like an area that would almost require a "name" school even for undergrad. But what do I know?? lol And of course, it's none of my beeswax :001_smile: and no doubt others see it differently!

 

hth,

Georgia

Edited May 26, 2010 by Georgia in NC
left out a word!

[Luckymama]

OP, just a few general points about the college process:

 

--Columbia as part of the Ivy League does NOT offer merit scholarships, only need-based aid. Their idea of need may not be your idea of need! Schools like Columbia do not use the FAFSA EFC number but rely on the CSS Profile instead, then add their own spin.

 

--I recommend you start reading at College Confidental http://talk.collegeconfidential.com Stick with the Parents' Forum, the Financial Aid Forum and the individual forums for each school (kids who post in other areas can be very prestige-obsessed and snarky). Read the stats and resumes of kids who were admitted, rejected, and waitlisted this year. You will be shocked at the number of incredibly qualified students who were not accepted at elite institutions.

 

--Run estimated FAFSA and Profile calculations. You can find good calculators at finaid.org. You will want to use both the standard methodology (FAFSA) and the institutional methodology (Profile), but remember that schools do what they want with the numbers.