s/o Dual Credit threads: Sneaky way to get into University?

[happygrrl]

After reading Tap's advice about planning for dual credit (here) I decided to spend the afternoon researching the admission requirements for dd's most likely choice for University.

 

Incoming Freshman: X years foreign language, x years math, x years lab science, x years English, X years History, etc., SAT scores, ACT with writing portion, minimum GPA of 3.0, admission essay, etc.

 

The alternate admission requirements (for homeschooled kids) included the above, as well as Subject SAT (math and one other) with minimum scores, 2 years foreign language proficiency demonstrated by test, and a few more essays.

 

Interestingly enough, the transfer requirements for students coming from our local CC requires:

 

36 hours, including 1 college level composition course and 1 college level math course. Minimum GPA of 2.25. 2 credits of Foreign Language with at least a C plus average. No SAT or ACT scores needed.

AND THAT'S IT. The cc has a partnership with the university so that all transfers are accepted, as long as the above requirements are met.

 

Getting into our CC merely requires an I.D. and a checkbook :glare:.

 

Soooo, am I right in thinking that someone did dual credit, maybe work over the summers or an extra year to get 36 credits, then we go to university without all those other things? For a major difference in $$?

Not saying we want to do that, but what am I missing here????

[Janet in WA]

Soooo, am I right in thinking that someone did dual credit, maybe work over the summers or an extra year to get 36 credits, then we go to university without all those other things?

Yes, you're right. And it's been done by many homeschoolers (including our sons) for as long as there's been homeschooling.

 

For a major difference in $$?

Yep.

 

Not saying we want to do that, but what am I missing here????

Not a thing.

[Orthodox6]

What the paperwork says is one thing. What happens at actual application to transfer is another. :001_rolleyes:

 

I would discuss the scenario with the transfer admissions department of the target university.

 

Our ds did not do any dual credit. He did, however, complete the "core curriculum" at the nearest CC. This coursework is guaranteed transferable to any public college in the state, provided that a 2.0 grade point is maintained.

 

Ds finished with a 3.8 gpa. The public university to which he applied took everything, as expected. The private university to which he applied, and which he shall attend (D.V. and the bank coordinating matters), accepted the coursework. This school also wanted every last detail about his homeschool coursework, all resources used, and grades. This, despite the fact that ds had just completed two full years of college. :confused: I spent Holy Week madly and desperately reconstructing those four years. My labours were acceptable to the transfer department. [whew !] The possibly salient point for your dd is that the accepting school has specified certain coursework which ds is obligated to take during his first year there -- coursework that he did not have in high school.

[2cents]

After reading Tap's advice about planning for dual credit (here) I decided to spend the afternoon researching the admission requirements for dd's most likely choice for University.

 

Incoming Freshman: X years foreign language, x years math, x years lab science, x years English, X years History, etc., SAT scores, ACT with writing portion, minimum GPA of 3.0, admission essay, etc.

 

The alternate admission requirements (for homeschooled kids) included the above, as well as Subject SAT (math and one other) with minimum scores, 2 years foreign language proficiency demonstrated by test, and a few more essays.

 

Interestingly enough, the transfer requirements for students coming from our local CC requires:

 

36 hours, including 1 college level composition course and 1 college level math course. Minimum GPA of 2.25. 2 credits of Foreign Language with at least a C plus average. No SAT or ACT scores needed.

AND THAT'S IT. The cc has a partnership with the university so that all transfers are accepted, as long as the above requirements are met.

 

Getting into our CC merely requires an I.D. and a checkbook :glare:.

 

Soooo, am I right in thinking that someone did dual credit, maybe work over the summers or an extra year to get 36 credits, then we go to university without all those other things? For a major difference in $$?

Not saying we want to do that, but what am I missing here????

 

We did dual enrollment with our son since 10th and he got 3 yrs of college for only the cost of books. Many hsers in my state do this too. :thumbup:It is a great way to go! After grad he applied his Bright Futures scholarship and his dual enrollment classes transferred with no problems. I did need to provide a HS transcript but that wasn't a problem either.

[happygrrl]

Thanks, y'all, for answering. I guess I already realized that CC would be cheaper, and that by utilizing dual credit we could get to university faster.

The big shock was the wide difference in requirements for <35 hours transfer and >36 hours transfer. I mean, no science? No SAT or ACT? Wow!

[happygrrl]

What the paperwork says is one thing. What happens at actual application to transfer is another. :001_rolleyes:

 

I would discuss the scenario with the transfer admissions department of the target university.

 

Our ds did not do any dual credit. He did, however, complete the "core curriculum" at the nearest CC. This coursework is guaranteed transferable to any public college in the state, provided that a 2.0 grade point is maintained.

 

Ds finished with a 3.8 gpa. The public university to which he applied took everything, as expected. The private university to which he applied, and which he shall attend (D.V. and the bank coordinating matters), accepted the coursework. This school also wanted every last detail about his homeschool coursework, all resources used, and grades. This, despite the fact that ds had just completed two full years of college. :confused: I spent Holy Week madly and desperately reconstructing those four years. My labours were acceptable to the transfer department. [whew !] The possibly salient point for your dd is that the accepting school has specified certain coursework which ds is obligated to take during his first year there -- coursework that he did not have in high school.

 

Excellent point, thank you.

[CroppinIt]

Want to hear something funny?

 

We're planning on sending our kids to the local community college for classes too. Guess who'll be one of their teachers?

 

Their DAD. Oh, the irony. :D

[lionfamily1999]

We have the "Step Up" program here that enrolls high schoolers in the local CC as a way to both challenge them and raise the odds that they will end up with a degree. I don't think it's really devious and underhanded, so much as saying if you're willing to put in the hours (13th grade and all) then we're willing to give you a chance. Something like that could've helped my sibs and myself.

[happygrrl]

We have the "Step Up" program here that enrolls high schoolers in the local CC as a way to both challenge them and raise the odds that they will end up with a degree. I don't think it's really devious and underhanded, so much as saying if you're willing to put in the hours (13th grade and all) then we're willing to give you a chance. Something like that could've helped my sibs and myself.

 

I didn't mean underhanded, though "sneaky" does imply that, doesn't it? :)

I am getting really excited about this for my aspie. He doesn't have the test taking skills or the 3.0 GPA. But with some cc under his belt, who knows? University might be a possibilty... a goal I never dreamed he could reach!

[Laurie4b]

The whole reason for colleges requiring SAT, ACT, etc. is to get an idea of who is likely to succeed in a college environment. A successful year at cc demonstrates that. I would definitely have your ds take science courses while there, though. A lot of times there is more attention for indivdual students at a cc than at a larger college. If science is a sticking point (just inferring because of your post about no science required), then I would have him tackle it there. If it transfers in, he's gotten over that hump. If it doesn't, he's gotten experience in the class.

 

Keep in mind that the colleges will look at the GPA of a cc student.

[Teachin'Mine]

Happygirl, sorry as this is a bit OT, but you mentioned that one of her school's requirements was taking the SAT subject test in math and they have a minimum score requirement. Would you mind posting what that minimum score is? Thank you!!!

[happygrrl]

Happygirl' date=' sorry as this is a bit OT, but you mentioned that one of her school's requirements was taking the SAT subject test in math and they have a minimum score requirement. Would you mind posting what that minimum score is? Thank you!!![/quote']

 

Sure! HERE is the link, but in short, here is the information for freshman enrolling under "alternative admission requirements" (this is for University of Oregon);

 

Homeschooled Applicants

 

Homeschooled students must meet the following admission requirements:

 

 

• Complete either the SAT with a minimum score of 1,540 for critical reading, mathematics, and writing scores combined, or the ACT with the optional writing component and a minimum score of 22

• Take the SAT Subject Tests in Math I or II, and a second test of your choice. Earn an average of 470 or better on the two tests, with a total score of at least 940

• Demonstrate second-language proficiency as described under Freshman Admission Information

• Complete the admissions application, including the following information specific to home-schooled students:
  • In the "High School" section, complete only two fields: enter the high school code 99HOME, then enter the date that you will "graduate" from your home school

  • In the college-preparatory courses section, simply click continue to skip this section

   

   

  [*]Attach a statement of personal circumstances that explains that you were home-schooled and that you will complete the admission requirements by providing official score reports for the SAT or ACT and for the SAT Subject Tests

   

 

 

[happygrrl]

The whole reason for colleges requiring SAT, ACT, etc. is to get an idea of who is likely to succeed in a college environment. A successful year at cc demonstrates that. I would definitely have your ds take science courses while there, though. A lot of times there is more attention for indivdual students at a cc than at a larger college. If science is a sticking point (just inferring because of your post about no science required), then I would have him tackle it there. If it transfers in, he's gotten over that hump. If it doesn't, he's gotten experience in the class.

 

Keep in mind that the colleges will look at the GPA of a cc student.

 

Ah, this makes sense. Thanks!

[lionfamily1999]

I didn't mean underhanded, though "sneaky" does imply that, doesn't it? :)

I am getting really excited about this for my aspie. He doesn't have the test taking skills or the 3.0 GPA. But with some cc under his belt, who knows? University might be a possibilty... a goal I never dreamed he could reach!

Ah! Okay, I misunderstood you :p

 

Yes, this is a wonderful opportunity for my dcs as well. Affording college is a pipe dream for us, but with this sort of start they have a greater chance at getting some college done without us having us mortgage (and remortgage) our house.

[G5052]

I work for a state community college that has wonderful transfer agreements to top-flight 4-year colleges, but each transfer agreement is a little different and they are often several pages long, listing specific courses and sometimes specific grades for specific courses. We have representatives from these colleges come on campus several times a year to talk to students, and we encourage those planning to transfer to make an appointment with transfer agreement in hand at several points in their studies to make sure they're set. From what I've heard, these representatives make no distinction between traditional students and dual enrolled students.

[Ellie]

I don't think it's "sneaky" at all. :-)

 

I had planned for many years to have my dds enroll at the community college and do that instead of high school (something that is easy to do in Califorania). It didn't make sense to me for dds to do four years of high school, then repeat most of those classes again in college; why not do them just once? So that's what they did.

 

I didn't know when I started out that they would be guaranteed to be admitted to CalState and UC, ahead of high school grads (we knew which classes would transfer--most of them--and which would not, and planned accordingly); finding that out was a serendipity.

 

I don't think of it as "sneaky" in any way.:)

[happygrrl]

I work for a state community college that has wonderful transfer agreements to top-flight 4-year colleges, but each transfer agreement is a little different and they are often several pages long, listing specific courses and sometimes specific grades for specific courses. We have representatives from these colleges come on campus several times a year to talk to students, and we encourage those planning to transfer to make an appointment with transfer agreement in hand at several points in their studies to make sure they're set. From what I've heard, these representatives make no distinction between traditional students and dual enrolled students.

 

Thanks! I am going to write the CC and see if they do this. It's a great service!

[Mommyfaithe]

After reading Tap's advice about planning for dual credit (here) I decided to spend the afternoon researching the admission requirements for dd's most likely choice for University.

 

Incoming Freshman: X years foreign language, x years math, x years lab science, x years English, X years History, etc., SAT scores, ACT with writing portion, minimum GPA of 3.0, admission essay, etc.

 

The alternate admission requirements (for homeschooled kids) included the above, as well as Subject SAT (math and one other) with minimum scores, 2 years foreign language proficiency demonstrated by test, and a few more essays.

 

Interestingly enough, the transfer requirements for students coming from our local CC requires:

 

36 hours, including 1 college level composition course and 1 college level math course. Minimum GPA of 2.25. 2 credits of Foreign Language with at least a C plus average. No SAT or ACT scores needed.

AND THAT'S IT. The cc has a partnership with the university so that all transfers are accepted, as long as the above requirements are met.

 

Getting into our CC merely requires an I.D. and a checkbook :glare:.

 

Soooo, am I right in thinking that someone did dual credit, maybe work over the summers or an extra year to get 36 credits, then we go to university without all those other things? For a major difference in $$?

Not saying we want to do that, but what am I missing here????

 

This is what we did with our dd's and now our son. 2 year degree at the cc..both girls had over 3.9 GPA which earned them scholarships to theor school of choice...

The difference in cost? About $80,000 each...The difference in degree? None...oldest dd's is Summa Cum Laude with distinction.

 

I also liked having them home thoer first 2 years of college while they acclimated themselves to college and adult life.

At 20, they were more than ready to be away from home full time...and their maturity kept them from things they see freshman doing when they came in as Juniors. Oh, they also qualified for better housing as upper classman.

 

~~Faithe

[happygrrl]

I don't think it's "sneaky" at all. :-)

 

I had planned for many years to have my dds enroll at the community college and do that instead of high school (something that is easy to do in Califorania). It didn't make sense to me for dds to do four years of high school, then repeat most of those classes again in college; why not do them just once? So that's what they did.

 

I didn't know when I started out that they would be guaranteed to be admitted to CalState and UC, ahead of high school grads (we knew which classes would transfer--most of them--and which would not, and planned accordingly); finding that out was a serendipity.

 

I don't think of it as "sneaky" in any way.:)

 

I was in a happy go-lucky mood and used unfortunate wording, I am really sorry! I truly meant it in the best possible light. I am really excited about this possibility! :)

 

Question: This makes so much sense about not repeating classes. What year did you start doing dual credit (Junior, Senior, etc.)? Did you look at the CC list in order to choose which classes to do prior to CC? What I am trying to say is did you choose your earlier classes specifically to transition easily into CC? (My word choices are no better than today, sorry!! )

[happygrrl]

This is what we did with our dd's and now our son. 2 year degree at the cc..both girls had over 3.9 GPA which earned them scholarships to theor school of choice...

The difference in cost? About $80,000 each...The difference in degree? None...oldest dd's is Summa Cum Laude with distinction.

 

I also liked having them home thoer first 2 years of college while they acclimated themselves to college and adult life.

At 20, they were more than ready to be away from home full time...and their maturity kept them from things they see freshman doing when they came in as Juniors. Oh, they also qualified for better housing as upper classman.

 

~~Faithe

 

You mean you can still get scholarships as an incoming 3rd year student? Fantastic!

I agree about the maturity levels part as well.

 

~ Lisa (who failed out of CC as a 17 yr. old, later to make all A's at the same CC at age 23)

[Photo Ninja]

I'm a bit late into the discussion, but many universities offer transfer scholarships to students transferring into the university after completing 2 years of undergrad work at a cc. They are often lower dollar amounts than incoming freshman scholarships, but once you factor in the cost of 2 years at a cc compared to 2 years at a university, even with a higher scholarship, it is often less expensive to complete two years at a cc then take a lower transfer scholarship. Hope that makes sense.

 

My dc started taking cc classes in 10th grade. We didn't do anything specific to prepare my dc for cc classes. I focused their academics on what they need to learn and figured that if that didn't prepare them for cc classes, then they shouldn't be taking them yet.

 

The classes my dc took at cc transferred to state and private universities in the state because of articulation agreements. My dc made sure to take courses on the guaranteed transfer lists. One dc is going to an out of state, state university. Because that university has different requirements for undergrads, he transferred in as a junior, but he still has to take a few undergrad classes there that are not offered in our cc. He still saved a lot of money going the cc route.

 

One reason my dc took cc classes during high school was because they don't want to take the course in high school, then waste time retaking essentially the same course again in college. The primary reason, though, is economic. We need them to complete undergrad courses at the cc price because it would cost too much to do all four years at a university. This doesn't work for all students because some majors are best when all four years are taken at the university, but for two of my dc, the cc choice is the best option financially.

[happygrrl]

I'm a bit late into the discussion, but many universities offer transfer scholarships to students transferring into the university after completing 2 years of undergrad work at a cc. They are often lower dollar amounts than incoming freshman scholarships, but once you factor in the cost of 2 years at a cc compared to 2 years at a university, even with a higher scholarship, it is often less expensive to complete two years at a cc then take a lower transfer scholarship. Hope that makes sense.

 

My dc started taking cc classes in 10th grade. We didn't do anything specific to prepare my dc for cc classes. I focused their academics on what they need to learn and figured that if that didn't prepare them for cc classes, then they shouldn't be taking them yet.

 

The classes my dc took at cc transferred to state and private universities in the state because of articulation agreements. My dc made sure to take courses on the guaranteed transfer lists. One dc is going to an out of state, state university. Because that university has different requirements for undergrads, he transferred in as a junior, but he still has to take a few undergrad classes there that are not offered in our cc. He still saved a lot of money going the cc route.

 

One reason my dc took cc classes during high school was because they don't want to take the course in high school, then waste time retaking essentially the same course again in college. The primary reason, though, is economic. We need them to complete undergrad courses at the cc price because it would cost too much to do all four years at a university. This doesn't work for all students because some majors are best when all four years are taken at the university, but for two of my dc, the cc choice is the best option financially.

 

Excellent points, thank you!

[Mejane]

My daughter is doing this; she started as a high school freshman, and, now a junior, has ten classes done.

 

CT has what it calls the GAP - Guaranteed Admission Program. Cc grads in good standing are automatically admitted to UCONN, which is becoming tougher to get into. I am coordinating her high school credits with a liberal arts associate's degree; it just takes a bit of planning.

 

I get what you mean about feeling "sneaky." You almost wonder why everyone doesn't do it. :001_smile:

[Yolanda in Mass]

Not saying we want to do that, but what am I missing here????

 

My son just completed 3 semesters at the local cc. He did not do dual enrollment, but rather started right out of high school. He'll be going into our state u with 40 credits which will all transfer, although it remains to be seen how many gen ed credits remain and how many of these credits will be free electives. He had absolutely no difficulty with the coursework and finished off with a 3.8 GPA, in the honors program and in the international honor society for cc's. We're expecting he'll be invited to join the honors college at our state u. So far, so good.

 

But, and this may be only our cc and my kid, it was an abysmal experience and he can't put cc behind him fast enough. The classes were appallingly easy and boring, requiring almost no effort on his part, so much so that he feels he didn't earn the credits. According to my son the vast majority of the students were lazy, apathetic, and unbelievably foul-mouthed. My son grew very despondent in this atmosphere. Yes, there are/were exceptions. This is what my son encountered at the beautifully manicured cc located in a Boston suburb which draws on relatively affluent communities.

 

We keep reminding him that he gets 40 credits out of it for very little money. That was its only redeeming value. Wouldn't do it again.

 

Yolanda

[Brilliant]

... According to my son the vast majority of the students were lazy, apathetic, and unbelievably foul-mouthed. My son grew very despondent in this atmosphere. Yes, there are/were exceptions.

 

Yolanda

 

Our experience has not been like this. My daughter just finished her 2nd year of dual-enrollment at the local cc. The students in her classes are diverse: some are highly motivated homeschool students, some are highly motivated adults coming back to get a degree, some are highly motivated 18yos who want to do well and transfer to the UC system. And some are the lazy, apathetic, foul-mouthed students your son encountered. But not the vast majority by any means. I'm sorry your son's experience was so bad. I would encourage anyone who's thinking of going this route to talk to others who have done it before at their local college, and possibly giving it a try for a semester, since every campus will be different.

[Tullia]

 

But, and this may be only our cc and my kid, it was an abysmal experience and he can't put cc behind him fast enough. The classes were appallingly easy and boring, requiring almost no effort on his part, so much so that he feels he didn't earn the credits. According to my son the vast majority of the students were lazy, apathetic, and unbelievably foul-mouthed. My son grew very despondent in this atmosphere. Yes, there are/were exceptions. This is what my son encountered at the beautifully manicured cc located in a Boston suburb which draws on relatively affluent communities.

 

We keep reminding him that he gets 40 credits out of it for very little money. That was its only redeeming value. Wouldn't do it again.

 

Yolanda

 

My son's experience has been similar except for the part about classes being easy and boring. I've decided that may be due to the fact that a lot of the faculty come from the several research labs and associated companies in the Albuquerque area. He's had exceptional instructors, and the one instructor who was not an accomplished teacher had lots of experience in her field which made up for inexperience in the classroom. The first semester was rough, but my son is finally meeting people his own age who have similar goals. And, he's had two classes with other formerly home schooled students he'd met at convention. He's also met several adults who are changing careers. It's good to have them in the classes, but they're too busy to socialize much. But, yeah, he's tired of the slackers and he says they're the majority.

 

Speaking of slackers, I tagged along last week when my son bought his textbooks for the summer term. The work/study bookstore employee whose job seemed to be to help people go directly to the proper books was...I don't know how to describe him...he told us he had so-so grades and hardly ever cracked a textbook which he receives through financial aid. I wondered, but didn't ask, if someone else is paying his tuition as well.

[Ellie]

I was in a happy go-lucky mood and used unfortunate wording, I am really sorry! I truly meant it in the best possible light. I am really excited about this possibility! :)

Oh good. :)

 

Question: This makes so much sense about not repeating classes. What year did you start doing dual credit (Junior, Senior, etc.)? Did you look at the CC list in order to choose which classes to do prior to CC? What I am trying to say is did you choose your earlier classes specifically to transition easily into CC? (My word choices are no better than today, sorry!! )

Remember, we were in California; YMMV depending on your state (and there are variations in California).

 

My dds were 14yo when they began taking c.c. classes. Their first classes were art and dance, but they moved pretty quickly into academic classes. We did not do dual credit (in California it's called "concurrent enrollment"). My dds enrolled as college students from the beginning. We didn't need high school credit, as c.c. transfer students are guaranteed to be accepted into the state college/university systems, and at that point, high school is irrelevant (older dd, who graduated with a BA in English Lit from San Jose State, has never had to show a high school transcript). No, I didn't look at the c.c. catalog to prepare for anything.

 

:D

[Yolanda in Mass]

My son's experience has been similar except for the part about classes being easy and boring. I've decided that may be due to the fact that a lot of the faculty come from the several research labs and associated companies in the Albuquerque area. He's had exceptional instructors, and the one instructor who was not an accomplished teacher had lots of experience in her field which made up for inexperience in the classroom.

 

The teachers were not the problem for my son; oh yeah, there's always one or two less-than-good teacher. Most of the teachers were quite good, but the students were the main problem at his cc. Teachers can't move faster than the students allow, nor can they raise the level of discussion higher than the students are willing or capable of working to. My son said much of his time would have been better spent getting the books and the syllabus and learning the stuff on his own.

 

I wish his experience had been like some of the others who have posted, and we had hoped it would be. I hesitated to post this negative experience, but I think it's important to be aware of the pitfalls of some cc's for some students. Just make sure that the cc will at least challenge your student. Doesn't matter how many credits your student gets for free if he comes away feeling his brain has atrophied due to non-use.

 

Yolanda

[hsmamainva]

My oldest daughter is doing this!

 

We're in Virginia and most colleges in the state have a transfer agreement with her community college. As long as she has the required GPA for that particular college, and has fulfilled the requirements, she's guaranteed to be accepted.

 

She has the required GPA for her college of choice (3.0+) and she's only 9 classes away from graduation!!

 

So she'll be off to college in a year (Fall of 2011) and she'll be granted Junior status at that university.

 

It's saved us a bundle of $$$ and she's been able to stay at home a little while longer. I'm glad we've had these extra years with her! :)

[Tullia]

The teachers were not the problem for my son; oh yeah, there's always one or two less-than-good teacher. Most of the teachers were quite good, but the students were the main problem at his cc. Teachers can't move faster than the students allow, nor can they raise the level of discussion higher than the students are willing or capable of working to. My son said much of his time would have been better spent getting the books and the syllabus and learning the stuff on his own.

 

I wish his experience had been like some of the others who have posted, and we had hoped it would be. I hesitated to post this negative experience, but I think it's important to be aware of the pitfalls of some cc's for some students. Just make sure that the cc will at least challenge your student. Doesn't matter how many credits your student gets for free if he comes away feeling his brain has atrophied due to non-use.

 

Yolanda

 

Oh, I'm glad you posted, because it's important to have as much information available as possible. These are important decisions and CC's vary a lot even from one campus to another within the same institution. You are right about the slackers dragging things down. And, this may be a matter of institutional policy. My son's chemistry and math instructors appear to be relatively free to teach to the better students and let the others exercise the "step-down" option which allows folks to easily change to a less challenging course.

 

His English instructor last fall administered a diagnostic test the first week and scheduled periodic workshops with topics such as developing a thesis or rhetorical analysis. She then did multiple levels of instruction based partly on the test and the students' preliminary worksheets which were turned in at the beginning of each unit. She worked with different groups at different levels. That wasn't ideal, but better than nothing.

 

IMO, the primary reason to go to an institution is for a face-to face "iron sharpening" experience. If that's not happening DIY is far less complicated and less expensive. It's really about credentials, and that's sad. There ARE downsides to the CC experience, no question about that, so I'm glad you took the time to share your son's experience.

 

Martha