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Math Mammoth or Singapore

math mammoth vs. singapore singapore vs. math mammoth math mammoth singapore

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#1 Jen S in Va

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 07:28 PM

Typically, I'm of the if it isn't broken, don't fix it school, but now I'm considering switching from Singapore, which is working very well, to Math Mammoth. I have all the CWP books already, so I will use them either way. We also supplement with MEP. The conciseness of MM is what seems to appeal to me at this point--with SM St Ed, I need the HIGs, the workbooks, the textbooks, etc. With MM--one download--print it out and done, and, admittedly, the price is appealing as well, pretty much 1/3 of the SM St ed price. Am I right or wrong?

#2 hmschooling

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 08:22 PM

:lurk5:

#3 sagira

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 08:56 PM

If it helps anything, the many books are what keep me hesitating about getting Singapore. I may try the Japanese math instead.

Math Mammoth is a nice program. I use it currently as a supplement, and planning on using it all throughout the Summer.

#4 Corraleno

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 12:07 AM

Typically, I'm of the if it isn't broken, don't fix it school, but now I'm considering switching from Singapore, which is working very well, to Math Mammoth. I have all the CWP books already, so I will use them either way. We also supplement with MEP. The conciseness of MM is what seems to appeal to me at this point--with SM St Ed, I need the HIGs, the workbooks, the textbooks, etc. With MM--one download--print it out and done, and, admittedly, the price is appealing as well, pretty much 1/3 of the SM St ed price. Am I right or wrong?

I switched from Singapore to MM for the same reasons you mention. The explanations are written directly to the student, and (IMO) they're better than the ones written to the parent in the HIGs. The concepts are broken down into smaller increments and explained step-by-step (hence fewer conceptual "leaps" compared to Singapore), and MM is divided into discrete lessons, with one concept per lesson, whereas sometimes with Singapore you just have to pick a place to stop. Since MM was designed specifically for homeschoolers, the all-in-one format is incredibly easy to use. IMHO, you really won't lose anything by switching, and you'll gain some clarity in the explanations, and a whole lot of convenience.

Jackie

#5 pageta

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 06:22 AM

We switched from Singapore to MM have haven't looked back. I continue to be impressed by how well MM teaches the concepts behind the facts and really makes sure they understand. I say, go for it!

#6 Corraleno

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 09:19 AM

BTW, Math Mammoth downloads and CDs are 20% off through June 1st with the sale code MMSALE2010.

Jackie

#7 laf512

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 09:23 AM

We're currently using both Singapore and MM. I prefer MM over Singapore. I like that everything is in one place. Also, I feel there are plenty of problems in MM without having to add extra. With Singapore, I wouldn't feel that there is enough review without adding the CWP or IP workbooks. Dd is really grasping the concepts in MM quickly and enjoys doing the work. I think we may end up dropping Singapore all together.

#8 abrightmom

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 09:25 AM

BTW, Math Mammoth downloads and CDs are 20% off through June 1st with the sale code MMSALE2010.

Jackie

Thanks for the reminder here!! Time to buy the Light Blue series. We LOVE Math Mammoth here. I'm pleased as punch with it for DS7 . . .:D

If you subscribe to her newsletter there are helpful articles and links to You Tube videos in which she teaches math concepts!!! Good stuff.

#9 fractalgal

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 09:54 AM

Typically, I'm of the if it isn't broken, don't fix it school, but now I'm considering switching from Singapore, which is working very well, to Math Mammoth. I have all the CWP books already, so I will use them either way. We also supplement with MEP. The conciseness of MM is what seems to appeal to me at this point--with SM St Ed, I need the HIGs, the workbooks, the textbooks, etc. With MM--one download--print it out and done, and, admittedly, the price is appealing as well, pretty much 1/3 of the SM St ed price. Am I right or wrong?


I wanted to add that I bought the Blue Series Place Value units from Math Mammoth to supplement a curriculum that I was using for the last school year. I thought the MM units were well done and well thought out. They were helpful and clear. I think MM Blue Series would be a good supplement to any curriculum because you could focus in on areas that needed more practice.

We used Singapore Standards Edition Levels 2 and 5 last year. Overall I was happy with them. My favorite books from Singapore remain the IP and CWP, though. They are much more interesting than the standard curriculum if you enjoy problem solving. ;)

Good Luck :)

#10 Corraleno

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 11:25 AM

My favorite books from Singapore remain the IP and CWP, though. They are much more interesting than the standard curriculum if you enjoy problem solving.

These also work well as supplements for MM, since MM teaches in such a similar way (using bar diagrams to solve word problems, etc). MM also includes extra challenging problems in sections called "Puzzle Corner."

Jackie

#11 hmschooling

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 01:11 PM

Jackie,
How do you add in CWP? (Or IP for that matter)
I'd like to but I'm not sure how to actually do it since the concepts are taught in such a different order between the two programs. SM's CWP might include all 4 operations, where in MM we may not have gotten to mult/div yet. (it's not behind, it just does them in a different order!).
Do you just pick and choose certain parts of CWP based on topic? If you are using MM3, do you use CWP 3? What about with MM1? When can you start adding in CWP 1?


I'm enjoying MM with my oldest after using SM 2A/B US ed. And I'm debating between MM and SM Std Ed for my 2nd child getting ready for 1st grade. I haven't used the HIG's or text books though, so take this fwiw, I find MM much easier to teach right now without being a "lesser" program compared to SM. But, I'm not sure what my opinion would be had I used the HIG's and texts instead of just my curriculum's singapore plans.

#12 sunflower0607

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 01:19 PM

Does Mammoth math use similar technique for teaching math as Singapore Math, ie: thinking math? In more of the way the Asians learn math? Or is it a completely different technique?

#13 hmschooling

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 01:24 PM

Does Mammoth math use similar technique for teaching math as Singapore Math, ie: thinking math? In more of the way the Asians learn math? Or is it a completely different technique?


It's very similar to SM. It teaches mental math. The author is from Finland, where she was a highly degreed math teacher. Finland was recently ranked number one/almost number one in the world in math. So, it has that flavor to it, as well as the asian math teaching flavor to it.

#14 Ray

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 02:29 PM

"Finland was recently ranked number one/almost number one in the world in math."

Anyone have a link? TIA

#15 Corraleno

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 02:36 PM

Does Mammoth math use similar technique for teaching math as Singapore Math, ie: thinking math? In more of the way the Asians learn math? Or is it a completely different technique?

Yes, the way MM teaches would be considered "Asian math." It's very similar to Singapore, she uses the bar diagram approach to word problems, there is a strong emphasis on mental math and problem-solving, and the problem sets are challenging and often quite varied (approaching the concept from different angles). But whereas Singapore math was written to be used in a classroom by a teacher with extensive training in Asian math, Math Mammoth was written by a math teacher specifically for homeschool use, and it doesn't assume the parent has any background in Asian math at all. As a result, the conceptual explanations are very explicit and thorough, and she teaches directly to the student, rather than trying to teach the parent how to teach.

Jackie

#16 Corraleno

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 02:44 PM

"Finland was recently ranked number one/almost number one in the world in math."

Anyone have a link? TIA

Here is a BBC news story on the subject. Based on standardized tests, Finland scored 1st in the developed world in science and reading, and 2nd in math (behind South Korea).

Jackie

#17 hmschooling

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 02:48 PM

Here is a BBC news story on the subject. Based on standardized tests, Finland scored 1st in the developed world in science and reading, and 2nd in math (behind South Korea).

Jackie


Thanks for posting the link! I was scrambling trying to remember where I learned that.

#18 hmschooling

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 02:56 PM

Yes, the way MM teaches would be considered "Asian math." It's very similar to Singapore, she uses the bar diagram approach to word problems, there is a strong emphasis on mental math and problem-solving, and the problem sets are challenging and often quite varied (approaching the concept from different angles). But whereas Singapore math was written to be used in a classroom by a teacher with extensive training in Asian math, Math Mammoth was written by a math teacher specifically for homeschool use, and it doesn't assume the parent has any background in Asian math at all. As a result, the conceptual explanations are very explicit and thorough, and she teaches directly to the student, rather than trying to teach the parent how to teach.

Jackie


OP- I'm not trying to hijack your thread, but hopefully by my asking more, you'll have some more info to think through as well!

Jackie,
Have you seen the HIGs for the new Standards edition? If so, do you find them to be about the same in clarity or would you say more clear than the US Ed HIG's? Do they have more explicit explanations? I wonder if that fractions lesson you used as an example is more clear in the new one;)
I find the explanations in MM to be clear and concise, yet, I feel like I'm sometimes grasping at straws trying to figure out how to present the material to my child (beyond just reading directly from the worktext). I'm not math-minded as sometimes get that longing for more hand-holding...which is why I'm considering the SM Std Ed with HIGs. Is teaching from the HIG and the TB/WB combo really that cumbersome?

#19 Corraleno

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 04:00 PM

Jackie,
How do you add in CWP? (Or IP for that matter)
I'd like to but I'm not sure how to actually do it since the concepts are taught in such a different order between the two programs. SM's CWP might include all 4 operations, where in MM we may not have gotten to mult/div yet. (it's not behind, it just does them in a different order!).
Do you just pick and choose certain parts of CWP based on topic? If you are using MM3, do you use CWP 3? What about with MM1? When can you start adding in CWP 1?

Many people use the Singapore CWP one year behind the main curriculum (e.g. use CWP3 with Singapore 4 or MM4). I have the CWP books 3 through 6, but I really haven't used them much, because the MM word problems are very similar. Sometimes I would flip through the CWP book and pull out 5 or 6 word problems in lieu of a regular MM lesson, or I might add one CWP problem to the end of a short MM lesson, but I didn't feel like it was really necessary. I don't own CWP 1 & 2, so I didn't use them with DD. I do have the IP books for 1 & 2, but I didn't use those either because I felt like MM has plenty of problems and I was having her do 2 lessons/day.

I'm enjoying MM with my oldest after using SM 2A/B US ed. And I'm debating between MM and SM Std Ed for my 2nd child getting ready for 1st grade. I haven't used the HIG's or text books though, so take this fwiw, I find MM much easier to teach right now without being a "lesser" program compared to SM. But, I'm not sure what my opinion would be had I used the HIG's and texts instead of just my curriculum's singapore plans.

IMO, using the workbooks without the text and HIG is only doing half the program. A lot of the conceptual explanation is in the HIG. If you were using all three components of Singapore, your child would probably get more out of it ~ but it would also take up a lot more of your time. One thing I really like about MM's all-in-one format is that I can be sure I'm not missing anything.

Jackie

#20 Corraleno

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 04:30 PM

Have you seen the HIGs for the new Standards edition? If so, do you find them to be about the same in clarity or would you say more clear than the US Ed HIG's? Do they have more explicit explanations? I wonder if that fractions lesson you used as an example is more clear in the new one;)
I find the explanations in MM to be clear and concise, yet, I feel like I'm sometimes grasping at straws trying to figure out how to present the material to my child (beyond just reading directly from the worktext). I'm not math-minded as sometimes get that longing for more hand-holding...which is why I'm considering the SM Std Ed with HIGs. Is teaching from the HIG and the TB/WB combo really that cumbersome?

I have the US edition, so I haven't seen the Standards HIGs, but if you're looking for more understanding of how to teach math (especially "Asian math"), then I would read Liping Ma's book, and some of the article's on Hung-Hsi Wu's website.

Personally I found it annoying to read the lesson in the HIG, read the text, go over the text with my child, then switch to the workbook, back to the text, etc. Often there would be half a page of "lesson" in the text, then the text would direct you to the workbook for a couple of problems, then back to the text, back to the workbook. Usually I'd just read a section of text, then do a bunch of the workbook, but there's no clear-cut way to divide it up. Another huge problem, for me, is that more than half of the problems in Singapore are in the text, so either the parent has to sit and do all those orally with the child or the student has to copy them all out, and ALL of the review quizzes are in the text, so they need to be copied out. If the only written work a student is doing in Singapore is the workbook, then IMO they're doing about half as much as a student doing MM. I much prefer the way MM is divided into discrete lessons, with one concept per lesson, and the practice problems for that concept all in one place.

Jackie

#21 plain jane

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 04:33 PM

This is a timely thread for me. Thanks for all the info so far. :)

Those of you who use MM and SM together, do you use the light blue series or the blue??

Also, does anybody know if the HSBC will be doing another group buy soon? I know they usually do a couple per year and the discounts are really good.

Thanks. :)

#22 hmschooling

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 04:58 PM

I have the US edition, so I haven't seen the Standards HIGs, but if you're looking for more understanding of how to teach math (especially "Asian math"), then I would read Liping Ma's book, and some of the article's on Hung-Hsi Wu's website.

Personally I found it annoying to read the lesson in the HIG, read the text, go over the text with my child, then switch to the workbook, back to the text, etc. Often there would be half a page of "lesson" in the text, then the text would direct you to the workbook for a couple of problems, then back to the text, back to the workbook. Usually I'd just read a section of text, then do a bunch of the workbook, but there's no clear-cut way to divide it up. Another huge problem, for me, is that more than half of the problems in Singapore are in the text, so either the parent has to sit and do all those orally with the child or the student has to copy them all out, and ALL of the review quizzes are in the text, so they need to be copied out. If the only written work a student is doing in Singapore is the workbook, then IMO they're doing about half as much as a student doing MM. I much prefer the way MM is divided into discrete lessons, with one concept per lesson, and the practice problems for that concept all in one place.

Jackie


I like that they are clearly divided into lessons in MM too, other than I didn't realize that was ONE day's worth of work. it's been taking dd doing MM3 about half an hour PER PAGE, sometimes more. It would take us 1-2 hours per day to do one lesson per day it seems b/c we've been spending roughly 2-4 days per lesson.I suppose I could skip some, but I'm afraid of missing something. When we did SM, she got her work done fairly quickly since there aren't many problems per page. But, I have to say, since starting MM, there have been so many lightbulb moments and she has grown to love word problems!!

Just counting it out in MM3, if one were to do one concept as one lesson per day, not including days spent working facts and such, then there are 112 lessons including reviews. (not including the cumulative reviews that can be added in, of which I think there are about 10-- so that's 122 days worth of work). Plenty of wiggle room, time for the computer games she lists, and facts practice.

To the OP...I've been sitting here comparing MM3 and SM3A US HIG, TB/WB and I say....drop SM and go with MM! (or at least try out the standards if you aren't already) Jackie, every time I rethink this topic, I read and re-read all your posts about this topic...I think I'm basing my decision almost entirely on your opinion! Thanks for great info.

Edited by hmschooling, 15 May 2010 - 05:00 PM.


#23 Corraleno

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 05:12 PM

I like that they are clearly divided into lessons in MM too, other than I didn't realize that was ONE day's worth of work. it's been taking dd doing MM3 about half an hour PER PAGE, sometimes more. It would take us 1-2 hours per day to do one lesson per day it seems b/c we've been spending roughly 2-4 days per lesson.I suppose I could skip some, but I'm afraid of missing something. When we did SM, she got her work done fairly quickly since there aren't many problems per page. But, I have to say, since starting MM, there have been so many lightbulb moments and she has grown to love word problems!!

Just counting it out in MM3, if one were to do one concept as one lesson per day, not including days spent working facts and such, then there are 112 lessons including reviews. (not including the cumulative reviews that can be added in, of which I think there are about 10-- so that's 122 days worth of work). Plenty of wiggle room, time for the computer games she lists, and facts practice.

You don't have to do one lesson per day. If you school 200 days/yr, then you only need to do 7.6 pages/wk of MM3 to complete it in one year, so you could easily take 2 days for the longer or more difficult lessons. There's a chart here that shows how many pages you need to cover per day to complete each level of the Light Blue series in a year.

I usually do one lesson per day, but that's because I've been trying to get both kids through 2 grade levels of the Light Blue series in 12-18 months (DS did MM4&5 in 18 months because he was behind when he came out of PS, and DD did MM1&2 this year in 2nd because I felt like she did not get a good enough foundation in school last year). But I think 1.5 to 2 pages per day would be more typical.

Jackie

#24 hmschooling

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 05:55 PM

You don't have to do one lesson per day. If you school 200 days/yr, then you only need to do 7.6 pages/wk of MM3 to complete it in one year, so you could easily take 2 days for the longer or more difficult lessons. There's a chart here that shows how many pages you need to cover per day to complete each level of the Light Blue series in a year.

I usually do one lesson per day, but that's because I've been trying to get both kids through 2 grade levels of the Light Blue series in 12-18 months (DS did MM4&5 in 18 months because he was behind when he came out of PS, and DD did MM1&2 this year in 2nd because I felt like she did not get a good enough foundation in school last year). But I think 1.5 to 2 pages per day would be more typical.

Jackie


Thanks! We have 170 days, but I like to keep up some over the summer. I think it will work out great.
I think I'm ordering MM 1 tonight for my rising 1st grader! The more I compare the two I have in hand, the more it makes sense to do MM. I think you (OP) will feel so much freedom if you decide to switch! And it seems to be a rather horizontal move.

#25 Jen S in Va

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 03:03 PM

WOW! Thanks for all the fantastic information. Nice to see that I was leaning in the right direction. MM it is! And just in time for the discount, too. ;)

#26 mommyofthree

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 04:10 PM

Hi All,

I'm new to these boards but not new to homeschooling. I'm really learning alot from this thread. I'm thinking of using MM as my main curriculum for 4th grade and shawdowing with Saxon math (we've always used Saxon and dd gets it but I'm nervous about her conceptual understanding).

Anyway, do you think this can work? I need all the wisdom that is out there.

Jackie

#27 hmschooling

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 05:42 PM

Hi All,

I'm new to these boards but not new to homeschooling. I'm really learning alot from this thread. I'm thinking of using MM as my main curriculum for 4th grade and shawdowing with Saxon math (we've always used Saxon and dd gets it but I'm nervous about her conceptual understanding).

Anyway, do you think this can work? I need all the wisdom that is out there.

Jackie


I seriously think that might be overkill. There are PLENTY of practice problems in the worktext, plus there's the soft-pac games for practice as well as the worksheet maker. I would see no need to add Saxon to an already complete program. But, if you see the need, then go for it! I would start off with one or the other and then add in the second, OR start with MM and add Saxon if needed on certain topics.

#28 mommyofthree

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 09:16 PM

Thanks for the input hmschooling. I really don't want to end up doing math for 3 hours a day! We'll start with MM and see how it goes.

#29 Lovedtodeath

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 09:26 PM

Since I have stopped trying to do a lesson per day things are going much better. I try to stick to an average of 2 pages.

I am wondering if I should do Singapore Early Bird with DS before starting with MM?

Also, do the Singapore and MM topics line up? HOD schedules Singapore along with corresponding hands-on lessons and I am hoping that they will line up. Thanks!

#30 hmschooling

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 08:17 AM

Since I have stopped trying to do a lesson per day things are going much better. I try to stick to an average of 2 pages.

I am wondering if I should do Singapore Early Bird with DS before starting with MM?

Also, do the Singapore and MM topics line up? HOD schedules Singapore along with corresponding hands-on lessons and I am hoping that they will line up. Thanks!


I was doing EarlyBird with my K'er and decided to stop it yesterday since we'll start MM. I see no need to do it before MM1. K will be a fun math year here, and dependent upon the child's ability/maturity, we may start MM1 during the K year.

The SM and MM topics, do NOT line up. I considered doing the HOD activities in addition to our MM lesson. The activities are so fun! MM and SM have a similar scope overall, but the sequence is quite different. So, the activities will be of benefit of course (as any learning activity is!), but not necessary at all, and would just be in addition to MM.

I wish HOD used MM :001_smile:

#31 Doubleblessings

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 10:55 AM

:bigear:

#32 Sue G in PA

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 11:03 AM

I tried to resist reading this thread...I really did. Now, I am re-thinking our math plans for next year! Thanks guys. :glare: Okay, just kidding...I'm really intrigued by Math Mammoth now. I like what I see and like that I don't have to buy multiple books to really do the program like it is intended. With Singapore, I always feel like I am missing something only using the text and workbooks. I guess I am! Best part...I can print what I need for a few weeks at a time...OR have it all comb-bound into a workbook for dc! Hmmm...I wish HOD used MM, too! Oh well...

#33 Tam101

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 12:09 PM

BTW, Math Mammoth downloads and CDs are 20% off through June 1st with the sale code MMSALE2010.

Jackie



Is that good through Currclick or Kagi? Or both?

Thanks :)

#34 Guest_Cheryl in SoCal_*

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 12:12 PM

Is that good through Currclick or Kagi? Or both?

Thanks :)

I believe it's just Kagi

ETA quote from MM website:

END-OF-YEAR SALE! 20% off of all Math Mammoth downloadable products and CDs. Enter the coupon code MMSALE2010 on the shopping cart page at Kagi to receive 20% off. The sale is valid till June 1, 2010. At KAGI STORE ONLY.



#35 Tam101

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 12:31 PM

Thanks! I just purchased next years math! What a deal! :)

#36 hmschooling

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 12:47 PM

I tried to resist reading this thread...I really did. Now, I am re-thinking our math plans for next year! Thanks guys. :glare: Okay, just kidding...I'm really intrigued by Math Mammoth now. I like what I see and like that I don't have to buy multiple books to really do the program like it is intended. With Singapore, I always feel like I am missing something only using the text and workbooks. I guess I am! Best part...I can print what I need for a few weeks at a time...OR have it all comb-bound into a workbook for dc! Hmmm...I wish HOD used MM, too! Oh well...


I'm sure math mammoth wasn't around when Carrie wrote HOD, or it may have been her choice! It fits with her philosophy pretty well it seems. It's much more economical than SM as well when you have multiple kids...and the concepts are explained so clearly.

There may be a big change in the HOD boards...lots of moms thinking about switching from SM to MM.
Today's lesson my dd is working on is really testing her...it's making her see place value from so many different angles! I thought she really had it down when she was breezing through writing the numbers in expanded and standard form, etc. But, then we were thrown for a loop with a new way to practice it! Now we know to work on it more....and she's getting it! I love how it's got so much variety and is putting her brain to work.

#37 Lightly Salted

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 01:01 PM

We switched last month and are loving MM so far. Singapore was 'working' fine, but it was really cumbersome to juggle all the books. After researching to reassure myself that MM isn't a lesser program, we made the leap and I'm glad. So much easier on Mom, the kids like it and are learning, and I now have math on cd-rom up to 8th grade!

#38 Cindyz

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 03:06 AM

I know I'm jumping into this thread a little bit late, but how do the MM users feel about the fact that MM is behind on many of the CA sate standards and in some cases doesn't cover some items from the CA state standards at all?

I'm asking because I really wanted to use Math Mammoth and was very excited to do so until I saw the comparison charts and that's when my heart dropped.

The new Singapore is aligned with the CA state standards so now I'm swinging back in that direction. It IS cumbersome with all of the extra books and while the HIG is more or less open and go, I think it could be laid out better to make it a little more user friendly (have only viewed online samples). We used Singapore early bird and it drives my husband nuts with all of the book hopping and he wasn't crazy about many of the activities because they were geared for multiple children. I showed him the HIG for the next levels and it didn't really entice him because he says the instructions seem to go on and on without a lot of delineation. His opinion matters quite a bit on the topic because he will be the one doing most of the math instruction, but we both have equal say in the curriculums we choose no matter who is implementing it.

In general, I would love to use MM in conjunction with Shiller if I can somehow get past the fact that they are behind and leave out some of the CA state standards. Otherwise, it will probably be the more cumbersome but thorough Singapore.

Edited by Cindyz, 22 May 2010 - 03:09 AM.


#39 Jen S in Va

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 07:47 AM

I know I'm jumping into this thread a little bit late, but how do the MM users feel about the fact that MM is behind on many of the CA sate standards and in some cases doesn't cover some items from the CA state standards at all?


Could you point me in the direction of the comparison? Thanks!

#40 Guest_Cheryl in SoCal_*

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:11 AM

I know I'm jumping into this thread a little bit late, but how do the MM users feel about the fact that MM is behind on many of the CA sate standards and in some cases doesn't cover some items from the CA state standards at all?

I'm asking because I really wanted to use Math Mammoth and was very excited to do so until I saw the comparison charts and that's when my heart dropped.

The new Singapore is aligned with the CA state standards so now I'm swinging back in that direction. It IS cumbersome with all of the extra books and while the HIG is more or less open and go, I think it could be laid out better to make it a little more user friendly (have only viewed online samples). We used Singapore early bird and it drives my husband nuts with all of the book hopping and he wasn't crazy about many of the activities because they were geared for multiple children. I showed him the HIG for the next levels and it didn't really entice him because he says the instructions seem to go on and on without a lot of delineation. His opinion matters quite a bit on the topic because he will be the one doing most of the math instruction, but we both have equal say in the curriculums we choose no matter who is implementing it.

In general, I would love to use MM in conjunction with Shiller if I can somehow get past the fact that they are behind and leave out some of the CA state standards. Otherwise, it will probably be the more cumbersome but thorough Singapore.


I don't use MM as my main curriculum but my main curriculum (MUS) doesn't follow the CA math standards either, and it doesn't bother me a bit;) MUS conforms even less during the elementary years because of it's approach. It's mastery and covers fewer concepts in more depth than the CA standards so children using it at any grade level will be advanced in some concepts but not exposed to others that they "should" be according to the CA standards. By the time you exit the lower levels of MUS the child has "caught up." That's why MUS students don't always do well when doing SAT testing, because the scope and sequence of the lower levels is very different from that of "the test." I don't think that MM is as different in their scope and sequence as MUS but it too is mastery and follows a different scope and sequence. I believe Singapore has aligned its Standards edition to the CA standards (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) and that's why it conforms. I'm not sure the same could be said of their other editions.

Quite frankly, the CA standards haven't gotten CA anywhere so I do what I feel is best for my children (who get awesome math scores on their SAT's) and ignore them;)

Edited by Cheryl in SoCal, 22 May 2010 - 09:51 AM.


#41 Guest_Cheryl in SoCal_*

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:13 AM

Could you point me in the direction of the comparison? Thanks!


Here you go:001_smile:
http://www.mathmammo...ightblue.php#17

#42 Josephine

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:14 AM

Could you point me in the direction of the comparison? Thanks!


This thread has really got me thinking about switching. Although I use the HIG and I think it is a very good program, I do agree that it is rather cumbersome.

Any thoughts on where a dc in SM 2A would need to start in MM?

Josephine

#43 SophiaH

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:41 AM

There are placement tests available for Math Mammoth.

#44 Corraleno

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:45 AM

In general, I would love to use MM in conjunction with Shiller if I can somehow get past the fact that they are behind and leave out some of the CA state standards. Otherwise, it will probably be the more cumbersome but thorough Singapore.

Do you require your history, science, and language arts curricula to align perfectly with CA state standards as well? :confused:

The Singapore Standards edition is aligned with CA state standards because it was specifically written to be aligned with CA state standards. That's why it's called the (CA) Standards edition, as opposed to the US Edition. MM aligns quite well with the Singapore US Edition.

There are many excellent math programs (probably most of the ones used on this board, in fact) that were not written specifically to align with CA state standards ~ that doesn't mean they're "behind." Different states have different standards for different subjects. In fact, CA's standards for science are very different from most other states, so one could look at science texts designed specifically for CA and say they're "behind" on some topics, because they cover them in a different order. Decisions as to what topics to cover in which grades are fairly arbitrary, and are based more on politics than on developmental evidence.

Since my kids aren't in a CA public school, CA state standards are completely irrelevant to me. There are many math programs approved for use in CA that I think are terrible (e.g. Everyday Mathematics). California ranks near the bottom of US states for education, whereas Finland (where the author of MM was born and educated) has the highest overall test scores in the world, and placed 2nd in math behind South Korea. Maria Miller says that she purposely did not write MM to align with any particular state standards, since they are all so different; instead she presents concepts in the order she felt was logical and developmentally appropriate.

Jackie

#45 Corraleno

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:49 AM

Any thoughts on where a dc in SM 2A would need to start in MM?

I would look at the tables of contents and samples for MM 2A & 2B and see what your child has or hasn't covered so far. If it's still not clear where to start, you can email Maria and tell her what you covered in Singapore 2A and she can tell you where to start MM. She's very helpful and responsive.

Jackie

#46 Guest_Cheryl in SoCal_*

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:49 AM

Do you require your history, science, and language arts curricula to align perfectly with CA state standards as well? :confused:

The Singapore Standards edition is aligned with CA state standards because it was specifically written to be aligned with CA state standards. That's why it's called the (CA) Standards edition, as opposed to the US Edition. MM aligns quite well with the Singapore US Edition.

There are many excellent math programs (probably most of the ones used on this board, in fact) that were not written specifically to align with CA state standards ~ that doesn't mean they're "behind." Different states have different standards for different subjects. In fact, CA's standards for science are very different from most other states, so one could look at science texts designed specifically for CA and say they're "behind" on some topics, because they cover them in a different order. Decisions as to what topics to cover in which grades are fairly arbitrary, and are based more on politics than on developmental evidence.

Since my kids aren't in a CA public school, CA state standards are completely irrelevant to me. There are many math programs approved for use in CA that I think are terrible (e.g. Everyday Mathematics). California ranks near the bottom of US states for education, whereas Finland (where the author of MM was born and educated) has the highest overall test scores in the world, and placed 2nd in math behind South Korea. Maria Miller says that she purposely did not write MM to align with any particular state standards, since they are all so different; instead she presents concepts in the order she felt was logical and developmentally appropriate.

Jackie

Thanks for posting the editions, I'll correct my post! I knew I had read that Singapore wrote an edition to be aligned with the CA standards but messed up the edition names:blush:

I totally agree with your post!!

#47 Lightly Salted

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 10:07 AM

I don't use MM as my main curriculum but my main curriculum (MUS) doesn't follow the CA math standards either, and it doesn't bother me a bit;)


:iagree:

#48 hmschooling

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 10:31 AM

I'm not bothered by it one bit either! It works better in my home than any program that does line up with CA standards. If the kids aren't learning it and learning it well, it doesn't matter what standards it follows! My dd8 is learning math better than she's ever learned it by using MM. She is not just completing the page pretty well, but the next time we get to it, she remembers it, and she's starting to apply it to real math outside of the problems on the page.

MM is in no way behind. It will take kids so much farther than many other programs out there. I prefer the math that goes deeper into fewer topics than the typical mile-wide, inch-deep choices. Not to mention, Maria's methods and explanations just click with us.

#49 Josephine

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 10:47 AM

There are placement tests available for Math Mammoth.


I would look at the tables of contents and samples for MM 2A & 2B and see what your child has or hasn't covered so far. If it's still not clear where to start, you can email Maria and tell her what you covered in Singapore 2A and she can tell you where to start MM. She's very helpful and responsive.

Jackie



Thank you. I don't know why but I never think of emailing to ask questions. I should try to do that more often.


Josephine

#50 Cindyz

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:02 AM

Do you require your history, science, and language arts curricula to align perfectly with CA state standards as well? :confused:


:lol: Good question!

Thank you all for helping me cross that bridge. I really love the look of Math Mammoth and there are a lot of great reasons why aligning with the CA standards is not important. Honestly, I'm not worried about the areas where MM is behind because I know that it eventually catches up and in more depth. I'm more worried about the areas that are completely left out.

I spent some time looking ahead in Shiller (which we'll be using as well) and it looks like by combining the two, we'll have everything covered.

Thanks so much for the thoughtful replies!


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