Making son re-do work... and I wrong?

[MommyThrice]

OK, I know I'm not the only one here dealing with a lazy 14yo boy. :glare:

He's a great kid and we have a good relationship (really!), but his work ethic is driving me nuts. I have recently started insisting that his work is to be done well, or he has to re-do it. Is this just going to take a while for him to "get it" or am I wrong?

 

Here's what I'm making him re-do: algebra that is so sloppy I can't read it, or not showing all of his work; writing assignments (less than 1 page) that are sloppy and HAVE NOT been proof-read; grammar assignments where he misses more than 30% (obviously didn't READ the lesson... just guessing) etc...

 

He is really complaining about this; it takes too much of his time. Not surprisingly, he doesn't hear me when I tell him that it would be faster to do it right the first time. :D

 

Does anyone have a better suggestion? His hormones are starting to kick-in and I want to stop this laziness NOW!

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

I'm dealing with the same things with my 14yos! Must be "that" age and stage.

 

My son has the ability to make 100s on Algebra tests. He'll make a string of As and then deliver a C, D, or even F! I pull out a different set of problems and make him do a different test.

 

I give a variety of assignments for geography. One assignment is to do the test open book more or less as a worksheet than truly "test". Come on now, if you can't get an A on an open book assignment then more work is needed... So the next chapter will be a longer and harder assignment.

 

Writing??? He now uses the computer to type papers. It has spell check and grammar check! If he doesn't use those tools, another assignment is given.

 

I learned a few years back that reworking the same problems or redoing the same assignment just makes something he is bored with MORE boring. I'll give a different assignment, and usually a more difficult one to reassess the same concepts.

 

OH one thing that REALLY helped..... several times this year INSTEAD of giving a different assignment, I've just counted the BAD grade and said, "Oh lookie.... This D on this math paper is really going to hurt your average... In real life you won't be able to re do everything.... You have to live with your actions.... So you've got to live with this D.... Next time, do your best." And THAT has probably helped the most!

[LoriM]

I teach middle school to children who are not my own. (Even though I love 'em like my own!)

 

I do not accept work that I cannot read. Students often have to resubmit work for credit. One day late, and they lose 15 points. 2 days late, 25 points. I don't accept it at all three days late or later. I grade every assignment for Accuracy (50%), Orderliness (20%), Diligence (25%), and NAME ON PAPER (5%). You would not believe how many kids lose 5 points...sigh.

 

Our language teachers teach writing in such a way that nearly every assignment is "redoing" the assignment before, so while the students initially complain, they do learn that editing is part of the process, and a significant portion of the grade. You might start assigning "rough draft 1," "rough draft 2" and "final paper" on MWF of a week, instead of allowing him to submit his first work for credit.

 

In my own home, I solved some of our algebra stress by assigning copywork. It was not enough for me to tell my daughter to "redo" her problems when she failed to show her work. I had her meticulously copy the solutions from the solution manual, showing every step. Special events were preempted by incomplete assignments ("Oh, you aren't finished? I'm sorry you'll miss your favorite TV show tonight!"). By replacing her missing work with copywork, I ensured she modelled proper solutions to problems, not just "showed some work."

 

She quickly learned to do the steps of her problems in order to not do "copywork" later. :)

 

Lori

[MommyThrice]

OH one thing that REALLY helped..... several times this year INSTEAD of giving a different assignment, I've just counted the BAD grade and said, "Oh lookie.... This D on this math paper is really going to hurt your average... In real life you won't be able to re do everything.... You have to live with your actions.... So you've got to live with this D.... Next time, do your best." And THAT has probably helped the most!

 

That doesn't work with mine; he just wants to know if he is free to go play or work on debate. I don't think he has the concept of grades, yet.. at least at home. He's very concerned about grades in his outside biology class, and he's making an A.

 

He feels like a failure in math already - I hate to reinforce that. Honestly, his problem is careless, sloppy work. I'm okay with the fact that math isn't his strongest subject, but I can't accept the carelessness. And I know he would get more problems correct if (1) he didn't skip steps and (2) he could read his own writing!

[MommyThrice]

nearly every assignment is "redoing" the assignment before, so while the students initially complain, they do learn that editing is part of the process, and a significant portion of the grade. You might start assigning "rough draft 1," "rough draft 2" and "final paper" on MWF of a week, instead of allowing him to submit his first work for credit.

Lori

I do this already. I just think he should proof his own rough draft before he gives it to me. He won't catch all the mistakes and style problems on his own, that's why we edit papers together, but he ought to be able to catch missing words!

 

Copywork from the algebra solutions manual... now that is an idea.;)

[mysterious_jedi]

Your son sounds like my kindred spirit! My mom used to threaten that any problem I missed on a test I had to rework a couple of times. That was good motivation for me to do it right the first time! My calculus teacher told me that it was mainly lack of organization, not lack of intelligence, holding me back in math. He had me get out different colored pencils/pens/highlighters and mark the answer to each step clearly in a different color. That made it a lot easier to go back and do the final step. As far as neatness...I had that problem too (still do, somewhat). Is it just a matter of doing it too quickly, or are there fine motor skills issues involved? If you think it's the latter, an OT might be able to help. If the former....well, that's up to him.

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

In my own home, I solved some of our algebra stress by assigning copywork. It was not enough for me to tell my daughter to "redo" her problems when she failed to show her work. I had her meticulously copy the solutions from the solution manual, showing every step. Special events were preempted by incomplete assignments ("Oh, you aren't finished? I'm sorry you'll miss your favorite TV show tonight!"). By replacing her missing work with copywork, I ensured she modelled proper solutions to problems, not just "showed some work."

 

She quickly learned to do the steps of her problems in order to not do "copywork" later. :)

 

Lori

I like this idea :)

 

My rules are:

1. 85% or below you must retake.

2. Correct all missed math problems -- all of them.

3. If I can't read it, I won't grade it. Late papers lose 10pts per day, with nothing accepted after 3 days (we've never gotten there b/c I won't allow it).

4. Schools not finished, you don't get privileges.

 

If I realize they haven't proofed a paper, or I cannot read something, I just give it back and say, "This is not acceptable according to our school's standards. You know what those standards are, please correct it." Sometimes I just say, "Unacceptable. Please try again."

 

We did avoid the sloppy handwriting issue by allowing more computer work, now I just need them to actually check what they've typed. I turned off the spell and grammar check on their computer :) Editing is their job, not the puters!

[MommyThrice]

So, if you make them re-take a test, do you do it the next day?

 

I let him write longer essays on the computer, but short single paragraph responses to history questions are handwritten. He will need this skill for the SAT essay.

 

He had a very poignant lesson in handwriting last week. At our regionals speech & debate tournament - in the quarter finals round - his partner was cross-examining the other team from my son's notes. About half-way through he had to pause and say, "I can read my partner's handwriting!" He listened to THAT criticism.

[Susan C.]

For math I am able to get dd to show the work because I tell her she can get partial credit when she gets it wrong if some of the steps are correct. I remember dd in pre-algebra saying she couldn't understand why when the problem was x + 4 = 7, that she just say x = 3. I told her they were using easy problems to teach the skill of adding -4 to each side, and the problems were going to get harder, and she didn't want to learn that skill on harder problems. It worked.

 

Also, I need to ask (and I am ducking), are you correcting an enormous amount of work because it is the end of the year? And now, when the kid is ready for summer, he is expected to go back and fix all of it? If so, a compromise is in order..... Daily or at least weekly going over the math and papers is necessary. And I am guilty, I have a few things I haven't corrected for awhile, but I won't make dd fix all of it because part of this is my fault... we are both so ready for summer!!!

[johnandtinagilbert]

So, if you make them re-take a test, do you do it the next day?

 

I let him write longer essays on the computer, but short single paragraph responses to history questions are handwritten. He will need this skill for the SAT essay.

 

He had a very poignant lesson in handwriting last week. At our regionals speech & debate tournament - in the quarter finals round - his partner was cross-examining the other team from my son's notes. About half-way through he had to pause and say, "I can read my partner's handwriting!" He listened to THAT criticism.

Yes and the test is always different. More work for me, but worth it in the end, I think :)

 

I love the lesson...unfortunately, I always hear...."Mom, if you think my_____ is bad, you should see ________ from Boy Scouts." Dang superstar brats (my dc). :D

[johnandtinagilbert]

For math I am able to get dd to show the work because I tell her she can get partial credit when she gets it wrong if some of the steps are correct. I remember dd in pre-algebra saying she couldn't understand why when the problem was x + 4 = 7, that she just say x = 3. I told her they were using easy problems to teach the skill of adding -4 to each side, and the problems were going to get harder, and she didn't want to learn that skill on harder problems. It worked.

 

Also, I need to ask (and I am ducking), are you correcting an enormous amount of work because it is the end of the year? And now, when the kid is ready for summer, he is expected to go back and fix all of it? If so, a compromise is in order..... Daily or at least weekly going over the math and papers is necessary. And I am guilty, I have a few things I haven't corrected for awhile, but I won't make dd fix all of it because part of this is my fault... we are both so ready for summer!!!

I try and give credit for correct things also. For example, in Latin, I'll count every word individually for translations. Sometimes we end up with 200+ possible points on an assignment between translations and sentence markings.

 

I generally get corrections done the next morning. There is an occasion where I have a lazy or busy week and put things off a few days, but never more than a full week...and tests get graded immediately, no matter what so they can study appropriately for their make-up on the "next" day. I have been know to give a test on a Saturday morning, too, so they don't get the entire weekend to study and take advantage of the second chance.

[Teachin'Mine]

Maybe for correcting the algebra, have him read his answers to you while you're looking in the solutions manual, and any that are wrong, have him redo right then. This will start taking more of his time. Tell him you'd be happy to do the correcting for him if he'd do the work neatly, but until then, this is the new way. :D Same thing could apply to the other subjects.

 

It used to drive me nuts that my daughter would do her math without showing all of it on the page. She uses other paper for scratch work, and no matter how many times I said to just put it all on the one page, it wouldn't happen. Then when she had to redo a problem, she'd have to start from scratch instead of just looking through what she did to see if it was simple arithmetic. I've told her that it's okay if a lesson takes five pages - I don't care! But ... she still does scratch work on a separate page. But the neatness we've found is really important - especially the more steps that are involved. What we found that helped tremendously with that is to do the math work on graph paper. That gives nice small neat lines to do the work, and any related graphing or constructing can be done right next to the work.

 

For something like the grammar, when I'm correcting it with my daughter and I see she's getting a lot wrong, I'll have her stop and go over all her answers before she gives them to me. It's usually that she didn't understand the directions or something, and a lot of the learning is in correcting what's wrong.

[MommyThrice]

I told her they were using easy problems to teach the skill of adding -4 to each side, and the problems were going to get harder, and she didn't want to learn that skill on harder problems.

 

I've heard myself say that about a million times!

 

Also, I need to ask (and I am ducking), are you correcting an enormous amount of work because it is the end of the year? And now, when the kid is ready for summer, he is expected to go back and fix all of it?

 

Nope. I correct it every day. In fact, he is not "finished" with him math until it is graded (by him) corrections made and shown to me. But he's getting 3 or 4 incorrect out of only HALF a Saxon lesson per day.

 

[MommyThrice]

For something like the grammar' date=' when I'm correcting it with my daughter and I see she's getting a lot wrong, I'll have her stop and go over all her answers before she gives them to me. It's usually that she didn't understand the directions or something, and a lot of the learning is in correcting what's wrong.[/quote']

 

Yes, this has worked well for us. I usually just draw a red line and tell him I haven't graded anything below it. Please go back and make sure you're happy with your answers before I finish grading. However, frequently when he has missed so many - maybe it's a coincidence - it is also so sloppy that I can't read it. If that's the case, I make him copy it over. Twice it was as bad, or worse, the second time around. Those two times, I tore the paper up and put it in the trash can. He had to start all over again. :001_huh: I know that sounds awful, but he knew what I was expecting from him.

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

Yes, this has worked well for us. I usually just draw a red line and tell him I haven't graded anything below it. Please go back and make sure you're happy with your answers before I finish grading. However, frequently when he has missed so many - maybe it's a coincidence - it is also so sloppy that I can't read it. If that's the case, I make him copy it over. Twice it was as bad, or worse, the second time around. Those two times, I tore the paper up and put it in the trash can. He had to start all over again. :001_huh: I know that sounds awful, but he knew what I was expecting from him.

I can just imagine the "Scooby Doo" face and sound, "Rrr???" Love it!

[Teachin'Mine]

A mom's gotta do what a mom's gotta do. :lol:

 

It usually has taken some drastic outrage on my part to make any difference. They're teens - drama works! :D

 

Honestly what made the difference for my daughter was this year when she is actually graded and is responsible to someone other than just me. It took a few weeks, but her accuracy increased tremendously. She prefers being accountable to someone else knowing that she'll work harder and learn more. Gotta admit that truth hurt. :tongue_smilie:

[Susan C.]

I told her they were using easy problems to teach the skill of adding -4 to each side, and the problems were going to get harder, and she didn't want to learn that skill on harder problems.

 

I've heard myself say that about a million times!

 

Also, I need to ask (and I am ducking), are you correcting an enormous amount of work because it is the end of the year? And now, when the kid is ready for summer, he is expected to go back and fix all of it?

 

Nope. I correct it every day. In fact, he is not "finished" with him math until it is graded (by him) corrections made and shown to me. But he's getting 3 or 4 incorrect out of only HALF a Saxon lesson per day.

 

Well, my son got half of everything wrong until late high school, then it was 1/3 wrong. And I made him correct as well. I think it is a boy thing. What is funny is he got the harder problems correct, then he would miss a negative. If his problems were wrong, I went straight to checking the negatives!!

 

Well, do you think the Saxon format is working for you? It was a problem at our house, so was TT. The constant review really caused problems for my one-track minded kids.

 

Maybe he will just outgrow this!!!!

[Sunshine State Sue]

I gave up the battle on handwriting. I make ds read everything to me.

[Teachin'Mine]

I gave up the battle on handwriting. I make ds read everything to me.

 

 

He's a doctor in the making! :D

[Starr]

I think they have to rewrite papers. A good finished product is necessary in the work world. There is hardly a job that won't demand some clear, well written, piece of information.