How do you know that your students are living up to their potential?

[Jane in NC]

As my son wraps up his senior year, he and I have had some interesting discussions of what we could have done differently in our home school. He now wishes that I had lectured him more in math. Particularly he wishes that I had purchased a large white board and gave lectures while he took notes. (Really???)

 

My son is non-mathy compared to my husband and me. Yet he is doing Calculus this year because I knew he was capable. Not what he wanted to do but oh well...

 

I'm pretty non-compromising in my math standards, but I have compromised in other areas. I do not think that I was as demanding as I should have been in 9th and 10th grade with regard to writing. I would give my son two or three prompts to choose from, then he would argue for an hour or two on why all of the prompts were ridiculous. It was liberating when my son enrolled in a Basic Composition course at the CC in 11th with an instructor who had the reputation for being hard. He pushed all his students with demands that I as a parent would not have required for the subject, not wanting to fight that battle. Yet my son rose to the challenge and achieved an elusive A in the course. When it was over, I asked my son if I should have expected more from his previous work in writing. "Probably." To be honest, I should have outsourced it.

 

I'm thinking about parents new to high school. What words of wisdom do you have to share regarding potentiality? Choosing or avoiding battles? Some work is just hard for some students. (Hard for me, too. I still have not mastered the use of the subjunctive in Latin!) Do you encourage your students to attempt to conquer these "hard things" or do you feel that it is unfair or unwise to subject them to potential frustration? Do you let them walk from literary selections that do not resonate?

 

Maybe I am asking how much leeway you give your students to determine their education vs. how much insistence you place on them to fulfill your requirements. Is there a balance? Choosing battles once again? Or is it just joyous autodidactisism that lives in your home?

 

I'd love to chat about this.

Jane

[IsabelC]

Caveat: I am near the beginning of our home schooling journey and so am not in any position to debate the topic from experience.

 

However, I would suspect that as in many areas, it's a matter of finding that elusive healthy balance.

 

If you look at the extremes, you could make a point of total self determination for your child in all areas. That's what I'd call radical unschooling: a workable approach for some families, apparently, but not for most of us. On the other extreme, you could micromanage every moment of your child's time from birth until he leaves for college, pushing hard all the way, zero tolerance for anything less than 100% hard work. No input from the student, every possible subject done to perfection at the highest level, no fun allowed. That's what I'd call torturing all the joy out of learning, not to mention a dysfunctional relationship. Obviously that's not what you're suggesting anyone should do. But where is that sweet spot in between the extremes?

 

And another issues: to what extent does the learning that happens by allowing a child to make his own mistakes override the learning that happens by pushing academic progress? In my experience, I spend my highschool years being fairly heavily supervized by my parents. They would check what homework I was meant to do and make sure it got done. Once I started university I found the work easy, but I had a lot of difficulty organizing myself to get assignments turned in on time because I hadn't had the space to learn this earlier on. So I think that sometimes it could be good to let kids make a mistake and feel the consequences earlier in life.

 

I dunno - looking forward to reading the replies so I can think about it more.

[M&M]

This is a great question! I have no answers as we are just beginning this high school journey. I imagine when my youngest is beginning 9th and I have (Lord willing) graduated some I will have some wisdom in this.

 

When I thought about how the highschool years would be, I never considered the emotional toll dealing with teens would have on me. Choosing battles and knowing when to draw a line in the sand and stand firm is still my challenge. I imagine that I will have more clarity when I look back at these years...which is no help now.

 

Ok, I have rambled enough, hope that this at least gives you a bump and some btdt wisdom.

[FloridaLisa]

Jane,

 

I chuckled at your son saying he would rather have taken notes from math lectures. I wonder whether his 14-yo self would have agreed? :001_smile:

 

I definitely think there are areas which I could have pushed more and in which ds was more capable than his work showed. But then I remember the real struggles we were having with self-initiation and deadlines. Now that my ds has turned the corner and is owning his education and goals, it's easy for him to look back and wish he would have done x or z. It wasn't so easy convincing him of those same things 2 years ago!

 

And then there are the other kids. I find myself telling dd that her proposed schedule of AP/dual-enrollment/co-op/extracurricular is a bit unreasonable. :tongue_smilie:

 

At every stage, but more intensely in the high school stage it seems, we have to be a student of our dc and know when to push, or encourage or guide down a path and when we have hit the limit for that child at that time. Either because s/he can't do more or won't do more.

 

Lisa

[Nan in Mass]

I try to be firm about skills but give lots of leeway about how to learn those skills (actual assignments) and content areas. I lost the battle of reading St. Augustine's Confessions but I managed to insist that French be done in cursive. It is much easier for my children to believe me when I say they need a skill than when I say they need to learn particular content. I let them say things are stupid or worthless. I usually switch or abandon based on that. I wish I had read "Teach Like a Champion" and "That Crumpled Paper Was Due Last Week" earlier. I wish I had worked on some skills even harder earlier at the expense of content. Insisting on revising papers isn't too hard but commenting on them is very hard. It turns out that many things are like this, so my children wind up having to self-correct with me hoping that self-teaching and growing up will actually work in the end. I walk a fine line between pushing enough to make progress and not pushing so hard that it spoils curiosity and the sense of ownership. Not making progress spoils things, too, so this is a tricky balance. I try to keep in mind the power of curiosity - if you are fed all the knowledge you need, you won't be hungry and motivated to go find food for yourself. Gaps are important. I also try to remember how much a person's inabilities contribute to his abilities and creativity - people find ways to compensate and that often is the reason for a special talent.

 

Not that I don't live constantly with the very many ways I have failed my chidlren... I feel like we've spun our wheels this entire year. Sigh. And the writing...

 

-Nan

 

PS - My son was gracious enough to come to me yesterday to say that he had heard some high schoolers saying that the hardest part of the SAT was doing the statement in cursive at the beginning.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Nan in Mass

[Susan C.]

I don't know if you ever completely find the balance. You try one way, evaluate, adjust. I only have two kids, one is graduated. I do ask him what we could have done better since he is in college and I worried about adequately preparing him. I have one more going into 11th grade next year. I will try different things, if they don't work, I'll get something else. As homeschool moms we are always figuring out what to do, what is on level, what can we expect of them, how hard, how much, etc. I pushed the math too hard with creative kids, and some subjects were seemingly too hard. I do believe that there are more important things in educating our kids than doing the hardest and best. Yes, you want to offer opportunities for those students that are hungry for more, yes you want to do all you think they can do, yes you want to push them so they can realize they can do something they didn't think they can do. But, you can push too hard, expect too much, etc. and it discourages them. They do need down time. I do allow input from them for homeschooling. I tell them to let me know if I have overloaded them, if what we are using isn't cutting it, etc. My minimum requirements are that they can get into college.

 

In any one day with my 10th grader, we can be doing great all the way to screaming at each other.... back and forth several times some days..... if I chose to address everything I saw that needed attention, it would be all of the time, and that isn't good. Hey, if someone was above us, they could probably find just as much that needed improvement, and we are adults. That puts things into perspective.

 

I like to vary levels, do something kind of hard, then something not so hard, I don't like crazy hard all of the time. Both of my kids are good students that want to do well, and I'm thankful for that. I want to nurtue their desire to learn, not overwhelm them so much that they never want to look at a book again.

 

I hope this makes sense, I've had a million distractions while writing it. :)

[jld]

The most important thing to me is developing a good relationship with my kids, one that will lead to a healthy friendship with them when they are adults.

 

I try to share what I learn here with the kids, to let them know about the various academic opportunities there are (curricula, extra-curriculars, books, etc.), and see if they are interested. Sometimes I just tell them they are going to do something, like it or not.

 

I hope things go well. I'm sure we'll have some regrets. I think we're doing the best we can, or maybe just, as my mom would say, the best we feel like doing, lol.

 

There are moms here who emphasize the importance of building a healthy relationship with kids, and moms who emphasize the very academic nature of their homeschools. I learn a lot from both groups. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. Listening to you is truly a shortcut.:)

[Rhondabee]

As my son wraps up his senior year, he and I have had some interesting discussions of what we could have done differently in our home school. He now wishes that I had lectured him more in math. Particularly he wishes that I had purchased a large white board and gave lectures while he took notes. (Really???)

 

My kids do learn more deeply when *I* know enough about the topic & have the time to be able to do this. This is rapidly disappearing at my house...

 

I do not think that I was as demanding as I should have been in 9th and 10th grade with regard to writing. I would give my son two or three prompts to choose from, then he would argue for an hour or two on why all of the prompts were ridiculous. It was liberating when my son enrolled in a Basic Composition course at the CC in 11th with an instructor who had the reputation for being hard. He pushed all his students with demands that I as a parent would not have required for the subject, not wanting to fight that battle. Yet my son rose to the challenge and achieved an elusive A in the course. When it was over, I asked my son if I should have expected more from his previous work in writing. "Probably." To be honest, I should have outsourced it.

 

I'd love to chat about this.

Jane

 

I'm so glad I out-sourced Latin this year!!!! I love being able to "be the Mom" with milk and cookies and a hug and the encouragement to hang in there til finals are over.

 

And, no words of wisdom here, but as I signed DS up for his (new) writing class for next year he said, "Well, I don't why we just can't keep doing what we've *been* doing..." I guess he likes that pretty well - I can make the assignments, but he never really quite gets to the level I know he should. It takes longer than it should. And I never know how to grade it. If I *do* say anything, he feels attacked. I feel so ...defeated... by the whole cycle. I can't wait to hand this over to someone who knows what to expect and how to get it, and to see what DS will become for that person.

 

I don't want to out-source everything. But, there is a point where the personal relationship with my DS gets affected because unfortunately I, the Mom, take it personally when he doesn't do his best at what I've given him. My immaturity, my bad - admitted. But, I know what all I've given up to learn whatever-it-is so I can teach it to him. And it hurts that DS sees me give things up - knows it - and still often doesn't look like he's doing his best. (DH says he's male, and he is, in fact, doing his best, and this is where the battle begins...;)) But, amazingly, if someone else is the teacher - then DS is the one who wants to perform, and I am the one who stops pushing.

 

(That makes DS sounds horrible - which is absolutely not the case. I am trying to dilute very complex human behavior into one paragraph before my coffee turns cold. Please don't read too much into it. :D)

[Gwen in VA]

we have to be a student of our dc and know when to push, or encourage or guide down a path and when we have hit the limit for that child at that time.

 

:iagree:

 

I think of our homeschool journey as a tightrope walk in many ways, balancing between too "child-led" and too "parent-directed". And on the tightrope, we lean to the left and then overcorrect to the right and then slowly regain equilibrium only to lose it again, but this time on the opposite side.

 

Do I wish I had pushed more with our older kids? It's easy to say "yes", but --

 

1) At the time it would not have been so easy!

2) My kids have gone on to do some of the very things I didn't push! Dd is now an art history major with a bunch of studio art classes under her belt, even though we never did any art in school ever! Ds is now a philosophy major who immerses himself voluntarily in the Scholastics even though we didn't focus on reading the great books in high school.

 

So if I had pushed, I might have actually pushed them away from the very things that are important to them now.

[Ruth in NC]

I let it fight some of my battles and was pleased to see my teens rise to the occasion. They never edited or revised for me without an attitude but did so for the cc teacher. And worked much harder in their math classes or at least with less whining.

 

I have had many illustrative talks with my graduates about their homeschooling experiences and it has changed some of the things I am doing with the youngest. They also urge him to work harder. But I have outsourced more with him because there is no one else at home to help diffuse any tension when it arises. Our relationship needs that.

 

Ruth in NC

DS1, gainfully employed with wife and 2 daughters

DS2, finishing gap year in Israel then UNC-CH

DD, UNC Asheville after gap year in Israel

DS3, 8th grade at home

Edited May 12, 2010 by Ruth in NC
grammar

[Nan in Mass]

Except that I didn't overdo the math, I totally agree with this. (I erred in the other direction, other places.)

 

With the next one, I have made a list of skills based on the weaknesses of the oldest. GRIN. This is NOT a good way to do this, since they are completely opposite in their talents and weaknesses, but it is the best I seem to be able to come up with.

 

-Nan

Edited May 12, 2010 by Nan in Mass

[Nan in Mass]

I agree with all of this post, too. : )

[jld]

Nan, could tell us a little more about those two books you mentioned, and maybe how you would have done things differently if you had read them earlier? Thanks!

[MIch elle]

Jane, you're question is an excellent one! I wonder why you do this since you're done with high school.

 

How do you know that your students are living up to their potential? I didn't/don't but I've gotten better at knowing, lol. In the past, I just did the next thing thinking this curricula is what everyone says is good, and it's working so I'll just keep doing it. Boy was that a MISTAKE!

 

I read TWTM in the fall of 1999 when my older ds was 5, but I also read everything by John Holt and all the rest from the unschooling movement. I prepared myself. I read and read and read some more - everything by Charlotte Mason and more!

 

Was I dumb - no, I didn't think so. I spent TOO much time reading about homeschooling and not enough time looking ahead in math, science, English, etc.

 

I took a VERY relaxed approach to K-3 and don't regret that ONE minute, BUT I do regret not ramping it up more than I did in grades 4-8. I went wide but not deep enough.

 

My approach is - how do I set my dc up for success. That includes school, home, and life.

 

I regret relying on other homeschoolers to tell me what was "good" instead of looking ahead and comparing curricula more closely myself. I just kept on because everyone said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" NOT!! I've learned NOT to believe other people but to fully investigate myself and compare it to the higher standards of the, GASP, public and private schools in my area which are excellent.

 

I've learned to waste money and not time. Yup, I've bought math curricula 3 years ahead to see if it took us where I wanted us to go. If I'm weak, then my ds will be weak in it too. But how did I know where I wanted us to go? I knew by then that the norm in my area was algebra in grade 8, algebra 2 in grade 9; Spanish/French 1 in grade 8, Sp./Fr. 2 in grade 9.

 

Math and science are MUCH harder these days in high school than when dh and I attended (I hold a BS and dh a PHD in science). I should have paid more attention to those areas in grades 6-8.

 

Most subjects are not that hard if you pay attention and TEACH them incrementally everyday by using the best materials available. It's finding the BEST that's hard because we ALL have our strengths and weaknesses and there is no ONE best curricula for all students and teachers.

 

Yup, I outsource ALL of high school. I learned that I couldn't push my son anymore at home by the time high school arrived. He needs to be challenged by other teachers. It's working.

 

Doing hard things is so much easier if you have those "pegs" as SWB says in TWTM. It's not all new and cold. An academically strong k-8 education can help SO much in high school and a strong high school education can lead to greater success in college. Hard things can be done if there is a parent guiding the way, encouraging, and supporting that endeavor. Baby steps to get to YOUR potential! BUT the parent needs to know and teach about those opportunities to get there.

 

I'm still trying to live up to MY potential! :banghead:

Edited May 12, 2010 by MIch elle

[Mommyfaithe]

Jane,

 

I chuckled at your son saying he would rather have taken notes from math lectures. I wonder whether his 14-yo self would have agreed? :001_smile:

 

I definitely think there are areas which I could have pushed more and in which ds was more capable than his work showed. But then I remember the real struggles we were having with self-initiation and deadlines. Now that my ds has turned the corner and is owning his education and goals, it's easy for him to look back and wish he would have done x or z. It wasn't so easy convincing him of those same things 2 years ago!

 

And then there are the other kids. I find myself telling dd that her proposed schedule of AP/dual-enrollment/co-op/extracurricular is a bit unreasonable. :tongue_smilie:

 

At every stage, but more intensely in the high school stage it seems, we have to be a student of our dc and know when to push, or encourage or guide down a path and when we have hit the limit for that child at that time. Either because s/he can't do more or won't do more.

 

Lisa

 

:iagree:

Oh, the hindsight...but at the time...you do the best you can...play like a champ. Pat yourself on the back and give yourself a big hug! You did an awesome job!

 

Faithe

[swimmermom3]

Just when I thought it was safe to go on a board break...;)

 

<snipped>

I'm thinking about parents new to high school. What words of wisdom do you have to share regarding potentiality? Potentiality is a tricky concept. I'm not sure that it is within our ability to know if a child is living up to their potential or not. Our judgment is limited by our own experiences and scope of knowledge. To look at potential from another angle, when we don't believe someone is living up to their full potential, we break it into very concrete skills: they didn't work hard enough, they weren't persistent or self-disciplined, they couldn't adapt to change, or they were unwilling to take the necessary risks, and they had no sense of direction.

 

If I were to do things differently, I would place more emphasis and a positive one at that on the above skill areas not just in high school but at all times. I would consciously model the joy and satisfaction in successfully utilizing those skills. "You know, Dad and I are tired and sore after barkdusting the back slope this weekend, but the hard work was worth how attractive it looks."

Choosing or avoiding battles? Personally, I would battle more often. Sounds terrible, doesn't it? But there are some battles I truly regret not having fought. Also, on the subject of confrontation, I would start earlier in teaching kids to discern which battles are worth fighting.

 

Some work is just hard for some students. (Hard for me, too. I still have not mastered the use of the subjunctive in Latin!) Do you encourage your students to attempt to conquer these "hard things" or do you feel that it is unfair or unwise to subject them to potential frustration? Do you let them walk from literary selections that do not resonate? Ah, the "frustration factor." When did frustration get such a bad reputation? If you look at the biographies of most famous people, they are fraught with frustration. Many of the greatest inventions were born of someone's frustration with the status quo. Yes, I encourage them to persevere and conquer the "hard things." Which is more satisfying, the A in a subject you are comfortable with or the A in the hard class with the demanding professor? That said, we have been known to walk away from literary selections that don't resonate. However, if it is a classic that many other works refer to, we slog on.

 

Maybe I am asking how much leeway you give your students to determine their education vs. how much insistence you place on them to fulfill your requirements. Is there a balance? When our teens start high school, the basic expectations are laid out: 4 years of math, 3 years of science, 4 years of a foreign language, and 4 years of language and composition. They can make their class choices within those parameters.However, our youngest walks a different path than his older siblings. Educating him is a constant give and take process. Since he is highly motivated, his suggestions to changes in our curriculum are often solid ones. I am learning to listen to what he is truly saying.

 

Edited May 12, 2010 by swimmermom3

[Joan in GE]

I have to second Nan's "Crumpled Paper" book. I wish I had that when my first was young. He was overwhelmed and I added to his frustrations.

 

With my third, I wish I had started doing harder things earlier. Partly because I never really knew if we would be homeschooling the next year or not, I did not have a long term view. Plus I didn't have this WTM board. Then too from 7 - 9 we were dealing with Genevan restrictions and requirements which had me so stressed.

 

Ds3 is jealous of his sister doing harder studies in 6th already and looks back wondering what we did with our time.

 

He is the first that has never been to school and we were waffling around in science and German, etc.

 

It seems like I would buy some harder materials but, in retrospect, they weren't that engaging. Eg using Conceptual Physics (High School Edition) in Jr Hi seems quite feasible. What we used for physical science for him was not at all demanding. I would buy things and then think they were too difficult and put them away. Then I'd get them out later and they were too easy.

 

Now that I see a clear path, it is much easier for his sister. Even though they are different, I've learned more about learning styles, so get lots of audio for her.

 

I wish there was a clearer way to sort through curriculum still. It is so easy to read or hear positive things but then the curriculum turns out to be fairly useless in our family.

 

So that is the difficulty with the first child. We're swimming around in the sea of curriculum, latching on here and there.

 

At least with the WTM mind forum you can read much more than what is in a catalog or on a website....Of course the WTM book was the first major help!

 

Joan

[Cedarmom]

It seemed like a constant balancing act with me. Math was easy-he loved it and pushed himself. We read great book from Omnibus. He was willing to step up to the challenge and read the books. I was reading along with him. This made it fairly eay for me to tell if the readings were too long for that day, or if my ds was just whining. I wonder if could have gone faster and covered more books. But he was loving (most of the time) doing Omnibus and I didn't want to mess that up. Writing- I definitely couldhave been harder on. However, he is a pretty good writer, and I think will do fine in college. I outsourced a math and science class. I think if I did it again, I would have him do at least one english class outsourced. Hmm, in my ramblings, I am finally coming to a conclusion. Perhaps all constant balancing is what makes homeschooling so unique. We know our kids, and can tell and adjust when we need to make things easier or harder during the differant seasons of life.

 

Funny thing is, the community college classes were sometime easier on him then I was. One professor gave extra points to the class because he "knew" they meant to do the extra credit-even if they hadn't handed it in.

[Moira in MA]

Maybe I am asking how much leeway you give your students to determine their education vs. how much insistence you place on them to fulfill your requirements. Is there a balance? Choosing battles once again? Or is it just joyous autodidactisism that lives in your home?

 

I think each child is different, if you have to push one you'll probably have to try to hold another back from taking on too much. I think siblings often model themselves on each other by trying to be just the opposite -- if that makes sense?

 

With my first I just put stuff on her plate, she learns it and begs for more. (I pat myself on the back and think that I've got this homeschooling gig down.) My youngest takes one look at the plate decides it's not to her taste and downs her pencil in protest. (Humbling!)

 

Both are smart. It's just that the interests of the former are academic while the later is more interested in the creative process. The eldest loves it when I take something she's interested in and turn it into a course. That same response kills the interest for my youngest. I have to be subtle, and subtle is not my strongest suit.

 

I do have requirements for high school: 4 years of: English, math, science, modern foreign language, classical language, & social sciences. My eldest has many credits beyond this, my youngest will likely have just the 24. Both explore many things but in their own way.

 

Thanks for asking.

~Moira

[JennW in SoCal]

I've missed having you around more this year, Jane!

 

Because of the challenges I had with my oldest ds, who is/has ADHD and Aspergers, I found myself letting go and relaxing about high school. He was exhausting to raise, and every little thing in life with him was a struggle. I spent (and still spend) sleepless nights wondering how on earth he is going to survive in the adult world. For my own sanity I had to let go and let him live his own life, make decisions and either succeed of fail. And you know what? He has blosssomed. He didn't have the dream education I had planned, but he will be able to muddle through college and he is the perfect employee and a man of strong moral character.

 

Ds#2 could probably stand more pushing, but he is doing well enough -- and my standard of "enough" is pretty high. I'm wiped out from getting #1 out the door and into the real world, so I'm done with the nagging and cajoling and pushing. My perspective with #2 is it is up to him to do well enough to get into the kind of college he wants, and he is rising to the challenge. He is a bright and inquisitive kid who is looking forward to taking science and math classes at the community college next fall.

 

It has been liberating (and occasionally terrifying) to put the responsibility of success on my kids. I've set them up to succeed, and we talk about their talents and struggles, but they have to live with the consequences of what they choose to do.

[Rhondabee]

In any one day with my 10th grader, we can be doing great all the way to screaming at each other.... back and forth several times some days.....

 

I hope this makes sense, I've had a million distractions while writing it. :)

 

This makes perfect sense to me! That's us to a T - and it drives my DH batty now that we're homeschooling at his office. The second day he said in his official Dad voice, "I need to speak with you in my office," and closed the door behind us, and asked, "Is it *always* like this?!" :001_huh:

 

And I was just, "Like *what*, exactly?" Cause to me our behavior seemed perfectly normal! :D

 

Every day really is the best and the worst. I can go from crying and just knowing I was stupid to ever try, to crying with joy and thankfulness that I've been blessed enough to travel this road.

[TravelingChris]

With my middle, it is very easy. She always works to the maximum. I know that she tests the least best of our three kids but she is the one that both dh and I are proudest. According to tests, she achieves beyond her potential. I just think the tests aren't accurate with her. She is just such a different kind of thinker. But I have no doubts she is working at full potential.

 

Now I also have no doubts that currently my youngest is not working at full potential and not even at hardly any potential. It is something I intend to be addressing fully in the next few weeks and something she has admitted that she needs to change too.

[Nan in Mass]

One explains how to be a good teacher. Since I do actually teach some things rather than just handing my child the book and letting it do the teaching, I have found it helpful. Unfortunately, I only just discovered it. Many of the things it says are obvious or inapplicable to homeschooling, but I'm stupid enough about teaching to find it helpful. It says things like insist on proper terminology, don't settle for incomplete answers, etc. It helps me with discussions. If I had found it earlier, I think my children would be less likely to answer a school questions with something like, "Well, it sort of does the same thing as that." I think I could have made better use of our time because we would have been more efficient.

 

The other explains how to organize work and set goals. I know how to do this for myself, of course, and I have tried to show my children my own way of doing it, but I haven't been very successful. This book describes an alternative method. Again, much of it is obvious or common sense, but I am stupid enough to find it helpful. I would have implemented the system described in this book early enough that it was automatic by the time my children began taking community college classes. It isn't too late for the youngest (in fact, it is just about right) but I very much wish that I had gotten the older one using this system before he went off to college.

 

I tried How to Be a Superstar Student (or whatever the videos are called) and couldn't get past the first tape. It didn't seem helpful. The information seemed right, but it didn't help with how to actually do the things it pointed out as goals. Perhaps it did later on. Ã didn't get very far. Many people, however, give it rave reviews. I point that out for two reasons - one is that different things are helpful to different people, and the other is that I tend to like general books like this that focus on the practical nitty gritty rather than the philosophy behind the nitty gritty. No matter how true it is that you have to want to learn something to learn it efficiently, I would rather be told that punching and putting papers in a notebook is a better way to keep them from getting lost than putting them in a folder.

 

If you have more questions about them, let me know.

-Nan

[jld]

Nan, you're not stupid at all! We all learn so much from you!

 

Thank you for the book reviews. I hadn't heard of these books and it's always interesting to learn something new, especially something a veteran has found helpful.

 

Thanks again!:)

[swimmermom3]

I try to be firm about skills but give lots of leeway about how to learn those skills (actual assignments) and content areas. I lost the battle of reading St. Augustine's Confessions but I managed to insist that French be done in cursive. It is much easier for my children to believe me when I say they need a skill than when I say they need to learn particular content. I let them say things are stupid or worthless. I usually switch or abandon based on that. I wish I had read "Teach Like a Champion" and "That Crumpled Paper Was Due Last Week" earlier. I wish I had worked on some skills even harder earlier at the expense of content. Insisting on revising papers isn't too hard but commenting on them is very hard. It turns out that many things are like this, so my children wind up having to self-correct with me hoping that self-teaching and growing up will actually work in the end. I walk a fine line between pushing enough to make progress and not pushing so hard that it spoils curiosity and the sense of ownership. Not making progress spoils things, too, so this is a tricky balance. I try to keep in mind the power of curiosity - if you are fed all the knowledge you need, you won't be hungry and motivated to go find food for yourself. Gaps are important. I also try to remember how much a person's inabilities contribute to his abilities and creativity - people find ways to compensate and that often is the reason for a special talent.

 

Not that I don't live constantly with the very many ways I have failed my chidlren... I feel like we've spun our wheels this entire year. Sigh. And the writing...

 

-Nan

 

PS - My son was gracious enough to come to me yesterday to say that he had heard some high schoolers saying that the hardest part of the SAT was doing the statement in cursive at the beginning.

 

Nan, it hit me hard this year that at least with my kids, it is not so much about curriculum choice or content but how we do things and why we do things. The curriculum, content , or college won't matter if they can't think logically, work hard, persevere, manage their time and their stuff, communicate efficiently with others and so on. I sometimes think if I spent as much time on skills, habits, and character development as we do on academics, the academics would be light years ahead. Maybe it's just a fairly tale I tell myself, I don't know.

 

I love what you wrote in bold abut gaps. I find it definitely holds true for myself. I want so much to know many of the things I didn't think were in important in my own school career, if sometimes only to be a better teacher.

[Rosie_0801]

I think potential is such a tricky concept. There's long term potential and shorter term potential. All these threads about 14 year old boys sound like these clash a fair bit...

 

Rosie

[Gwen in VA]

What does it mean for a person to "live up to their potential"?

 

I think life and developing talents and skills is a matter of balance, and the exact balance can only be defined by the kid (with input from the parents) with much much much prayer.

 

For example, what if my child has the potential of being the world's greatest fill-in-the-blank. Should she pursue that skill/passion/talent to the exclusion of most or even all other activities/interests?

 

Some would say yes, and we have friends whose kids have chosen that route, but that does result in a child having "all his eggs in one basket."

 

It's easy to say "No way!" to the idea of a kid singlemindedly pursuing only one passion, but by not pursuing her talent wholeheartedly, at some level she is not "living up to her potential"!

 

So I am not sure what "living up to their potential" even means!

[Nan in Mass]

I panicked when my youngest, who is more academic than his brothers, reached about 12, because I could see that he definately wasn't reaching his academic potential, as defined by public school. But when I thought about it, I decided that that wasn't a very broad definition of potential. Instead, it was a doing-the-best-we-can-in-a-mass-education-situation definition. And when I thought about it more, I realized that I wouldn't ever be able to know what this child's potential even was, since it was something deep inside him and it would damage our relationship if I pushed and pried my way in to find out. I also realized that I am very happily not living up to my own potential GRIN. At that point, I decided to leave living up to his potential up to him. I can try to do a good job of teaching the basics at home, and I can try to find opportunities for him, and I can let him go out into the world and find his own opportunities, but that is about it. He has to do the rest himself. And I have to accept the fact that he may not want to, especially at 15.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

Jane, thank you for starting this post. It has been very comforting. I tried and failed to get people to discuss this last fall (or maybe it was winter?) as I thought back to what I had done with the older son, who had just left for college, and struggled to figure out what was best to do with the youngest, now that I have time to pay attention to him. I listed all the balance points. There are so many of them about which we need to decide for each individual child, usually with not enough information. Something about having one go off to college makes you see what those points are more clearly. I feel like most of the posts I've started this year were one long wail about those points and which way to tip them. Many of them come down to philosophy, so I'm not sure anyone can really help me, but I asked anyway. Guess I should have used words like potential or rigour GRIN instead of balance.

-Nan

Edited May 13, 2010 by Nan in Mass

[Joan in GE]

I also realized that I am very happily not living up to my own potential GRIN.

 

This is a very interesting philosophical point.

 

I would not want to be doing what lots of women are doing which is called "living up to their potential" in the modern world....

 

But I have to run so I cannot think aloud any more,

Joan

[LoriM]

I don't begin to claim I "did it right" but I do know that it was right for us. So, I'll share what worked in our family, and maybe that will answer the question. :) I'll try not to ramble overmuch.

 

My older dd came home in 7th grade, and my younger dd in 3rd grade. Like most children, although they share enough interests and hobbies to enjoy one another, they are very different people, and have entirely different goals for their lives. To that end, their school work reflected very different paths, even within the boundaries of a "traditional" high school sequence.

 

We have a very eclectic home, with interests that range from aviation (my husband is flying his second homebuilt airplane for the first time today!) to active church ministry to quilting to theater to too-much-television and an addiction to movies. :) So, for us, all of our busy lives just needed a plan and purpose. We are constantly juggling commitments to the homeless shelter or to the youth group or social activities or committee meetings or tech crew or the midnight premiere of some long-awaited film. Through all of that life drama, we also have high standards of academic excellence, and expect our children to be well-educated, well-spoken, clear thinking and reasoning, enjoyable people to share our lives.

 

I've often said that while God may gift us children, it's our responsibility to grow up friends. Ultimately, I wanted my children to be people whom I enjoyed, people who would choose life-partners that would bring joy to our family and home, and people that I would long to visit and be visited by...because they were just so very interesting, enriching, and entertaining spirits. I hoped they'd be happy, content, honorable, and wise.

 

Practically, I wanted them to have "mad skills." I wanted the same spark of creativity and joy that caused a 3yo version of themselves to don gold lame' and dance in the snow to be present in their adult selves. I wanted them to be optimistic about their lives, to know things can always be better, and that they can do something to make it so.

 

So, we studied hard. We wrote, we debated, we edited, we argued and we wrote some more. We read great works together and talked about what made them great, why they were great, if they were great to us. We watched too much television--and talked about the struggles of growing up, why smart people make foolish choices, and laughed as completely inappropriate humor. We plodded through material that wasn't so much fun as it was work, and came out the other side enriched or relieved. We memorized vast passages of Shakespeare and scripture and poetry and TV dialogue and movie scenes. We read aloud for hours, days, weeks. We stayed in our pajamas until noon quite often. We sat outside late into the night to watch meteors...and sang Disney songs at the top of our lungs as the stars fell.

 

For my older dd, she persevered through three years of Latin, four years of Spanish, ten math courses, a great books study that spanned the ages, and wrote many chapters of her own fan fiction while achieving an associate degree in high school. And being a pretty great kid who cleaned her room, exercised regularly, contributed to the family's chores, and super active in her youth group. Now she's a married lady who completed her BA in mathematics at age 20, works as a youth leader with middle schoolers, and after 10 days in her new job, has already received a promotion. :) (She'll be 21 later this month!)

 

My younger dd self-educated much of high school as a far more independent student. She has a more "practical" academic history, with more economics, separate history and literature courses, a fascination with 20th century authors and history that keeps her more grounded in current events. She can throw a party for 30 of her closest friends with about 3 hours notice, and regularly counsels the drama out of the lives of her extended, very diverse, circle. A computer whiz, she'll probably be an entrepreneur ultimately, but right now is loving her work schedule balanced with her fulltime college schedule. You'd think the time she spends on facebook would be a waste (LOL) but she is one of those people who will probably parlay it into job skills. She is the social networking master. And happy. And driven. And loves God, and is obedient, kind, trustworthy and gracious. Oh--and I completely forgot...she has MUSIC as her biggest difference between her path and her sister's path. Guitar, violin, piano...she's a busy bee.

 

I suppose the "trick" (if there is one) to believing your student is reaching his or her potential is help them find out what potentially they want to do, and making sure you keep all those options open for them. Building a wide foundation allows them to narrow the path later. Not putting all your eggs in the academic basket makes a big difference too. LOVE your children, know them, and give them opportunity and then get out of their way. :)

[Jane in NC]

What does it mean for a person to "live up to their potential"?

 

 

 

I panicked when my youngest, who is more academic than his brothers, reached about 12, because I could see that he definately wasn't reaching his academic potential, as defined by public school. But when I thought about it, I decided that that wasn't a very broad definition of potential. Instead, it was a doing-the-best-we-can-in-a-mass-education-situation definition. And when I thought about it more, I realized that I wouldn't ever be able to know what this child's potential even was, since it was something deep inside him and it would damage our relationship if I pushed and pried my way in to find out. I also realized that I am very happily not living up to my own potential GRIN. At that point, I decided to leave living up to his potential up to him. I can try to do a good job of teaching the basics at home, and I can try to find opportunities for him, and I can let him go out into the world and find his own opportunities, but that is about it. He has to do the rest himself. And I have to accept the fact that he may not want to, especially at 15.

-Nan

 

An interesting question posed by Gwen with a good follow up from Nan.

 

As I said earlier, my son is wrapping up his home education so I have to evaluate what we did (because that is the sort of person I am!) That with threads elsewhere in which parents label kids as "non-mathy" or "reluctant" really had me wondering if we as parents are guilty of pegging our kids as one thing and not sufficiently cajoling them to expand or excel in areas where they are capable. (I know that the word "cajole" will ruffle a few feathers. If you have never had to cajole your kid into doing something academic, I would either say you are most fortunate or most gifted as a teacher. My adolescent son has had moments of pure stubbornness along this road.)

 

One thing that I know I did from the get-go was make the decision that he would read The Aeneid in Latin. This was not a goal he set for himself in middle school. Perhaps some people can just pick up Vergil and a Latin dictionary and go to it, but I laid a careful plan using TWTM to immerse my son in classics and study Latin so that he could accomplish this. For a budding classical archaeologist, this was a wise course of action, but he had not announced that he wanted to study archaeology until much later in the process. Did my standards follow his interests or develop his passion? If Latin had proved to be impossible for him, would I have rewritten the goal (as I did with French--there was no way he was going to do four years of Latin and four years of French in high school as I had initially planned).

 

This "potential" means so much more to me than textbooks and test scores! I believe that our students also need to learn to function in a society which is often dysfunctional. Navigating by example is good, but I think even here we may need to nudge our kids, particularly in having them be active participants within the greater community. Not everyone may want to rise at 7 on Saturday to pick up litter. A teen may not think of raking the yard of an elderly neighbor in the fall. I think that we as parents also need to suggest possible good deeds to our kids. Certainly an act performed under duress is not a "good deed" but some teens often seen to need some leadership to come out of their Bat Caves.

 

Until our wonderful piano teacher moved away (boo hoo!), piano was a "subject" for us like math or history. Daily practice was a requirement. A lot of parents feel that their kids are very musical, but they won't practice. Is this lost potential? Some parents require music, others say it is solely in their kids hands.

 

I think one important thing for every parent/teacher to remember is that our kids are not progressing in all things on linear paths. Just because a student does not understand Shakespeare this year does not mean he will not understand Shakespeare next. Just because a student struggles with algebra this year does not mean the kid is doomed to be "non-mathy" for the rest of his life. Do we need to help students see that often it is the hard work that provides the greatest self-satisfaction? Tenacity is to be admired.

 

Thank you to all for chiming in!

 

Jane

[jld]

I tried to use the quote thing, but couldn't figure it out (I'm sure it's really simple, but I still managed not to be able to do it, lol), so here it is: "I decided to leave living up to his potential to him."

 

I love that! I can totally relate. There were and are things I want for my kids, but they have to want them too, or it's not going to happen. I do force a certain amount of reading on ds11, but that's about it. He was diagnosed with AML last summer, and has a 50-60% chance of being alive 4 years from now. I want whatever time he has to be joyful. Yes, I still do make him do some reading (mostly Carus publishing magazines, and some French books, but funny ones that he likes), but that's about it. Dh tells me boys mature later than girls, and that when ds is 13 or 14, he will mature and want to do schoolwork. I'm trusting him on this one.

 

And I don't know if this will make anyone else feel better, but here's a struggle I had recently. I really am not that familiar with curricula, but I had heard a few years ago about Saxon math and Apologia science. Just the little bit I saw them, they seemed fine, dh approved them, and best of all, dd was able and willing to do them on her own. Then I started spending more time here and started hearing a sort of whisper in the air about Saxon and Apologia being not quite good enough. I asked about them, but could never quite get a concrete reason why they weren't quite good enough. I just kind of gave up, since dd likes them and I didn't want to try to figure anything else out, 'cause you know, I really didn't like going through math and science the first time around (my own education), and wasn't really looking forward to it again, either.

 

Well, then I heard about AoPS and decided to do a little research into it. I was blown away. And I was pretty depressed thinking that I had started dd on the wrong program, and therefore ruined her future (lol). I'm telling you, I could hardly sleep last Friday night. Finally dh got home on Sunday, and he and dd watched the video and looked at the website. Dd told me she still wants to do Saxon, but she'll consider AoPS for the future. Dh said it looks good, but to keep going with Saxon since he still thinks it's fine and dd likes it. Dd absolved me of any responsibility for potentially ruining her life with Saxon. And she still wants to do Apologia, because she just likes it. Man, was I relieved.

[Susan C.]

This makes perfect sense to me! That's us to a T - and it drives my DH batty now that we're homeschooling at his office. The second day he said in his official Dad voice, "I need to speak with you in my office," and closed the door behind us, and asked, "Is it *always* like this?!" :001_huh:

 

And I was just, "Like *what*, exactly?" Cause to me our behavior seemed perfectly normal! :D

 

Every day really is the best and the worst. I can go from crying and just knowing I was stupid to ever try, to crying with joy and thankfulness that I've been blessed enough to travel this road.

 

Yeah, I needed to hear that today, it is a screaming day..... but maybe we got it out early, LOL. I am thinking duct tape..... (not really)!!

 

One day dh stayed home, and promptly wanted to take her to the school. I thought, wow, you can't even handle a few hours of this, I have been doing this for 15 years....

 

Sigh

[Cedarmom]

Thanks fr this thread. I believe that a classical education is one of the best ways to help ur child live up to his/her potential. I think it was Jane who questioned whether we peg our kids as "non-mathy- or non-writers. I know I have this tendency. My son loves math, writing eh , not so much. But, because we followed the classical model he does have a great love of literature and is a decent writer.

[Cedarmom]

Thanks fr this thread. I believe that a classical education is one of the best ways to help ur child live up to his/her potential. I think it was Jane who questioned whether we peg our kids as "non-mathy- or non-writers. I know I have this tendency. My son loves math, writing eh , not so much. But, because we followed the classical model he does have a great love of literature and is a decent writer. I am not sure if he is living up to his potential. I think others have done a bettr job parenting/homeschooling their kids.He does have many great skills and is an awesome kid though!

[Nan in Mass]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=988959#poststop

 

Jane, this was my analysis of what had happened and whether it worked. I wrote another one about my son and me visiting the Delorme giant globe on our way up to drop him at college. That one is the other half of this.

 

My posts here are not so much posts about what I would do differently with my older one as posts about what I think I need to do differently with the youngest, because he is a different person.

 

I've been thinking about potential and homeschooling. In many ways, my goal for homeschooling is to do as little as possible so as to leave as much time as possible for my children to pursue their own goals and work on living up to their own potential. I know a good teacher will pull a person to someplace they didn't necessarily think they would go (Jane and The Aeneid), but I am not a good teacher. I'm not even trying to be a good teacher. I wish I were, but I'm just not. Therefore, the best thing I can do, I think, is minimize school and try not to get in the way of their own work. I think this is why I always feel so backwards here. I am trying to do the opposite of everyone else: instead of trying to make things as rigorous and high level and up-to-their-potential as possible, I am asking myself how little we can get away with without doing them a disservice.

 

-Nan

[JennW in SoCal]

Oh pish posh, Nan!! Not a good teacher indeed!!

 

18 years ago, when my oldest was a babe in arms, I discovered Penelope Leach's writings on parenting an infant, and the most profound thing she said was each parent/child relationship is unique -- it isn't just that as individuals our children behave differently or that we mothers each behave differently -- we become unique teams that work together as a unit in unique ways. It is the same with homeschooling, that each homeschooling family functions in unique ways, and it seems from the active participants on this board, we all are succeeding.

 

To compare what I do with what Nan, Jane or Lori does, is counter productive. My kids, my expectations and education make my homeschool experience unique. We can learn from one another, we can wistfully wish that we had pushed our kids to read the Aeneid in Latin, but we are not bad teachers or failures because we don't push our kids to do x,y or z. Success in homeschooling means that my kids know themselves and are not passive participants in their education. They know what they want in life and know what work needs to be done to reach their goal. I'm a successful homeschool mom because I've given my kids the academic and life skills they need to go out and live the lives they want.

 

And based on watching my young adult nieces and nephews and their parents, we will still be fretting over whether our children are living up to their potential until they are 30 or older!!

[Jane in NC]

Oh pish posh, Nan!! Not a good teacher indeed!!

 

18 years ago, when my oldest was a babe in arms, I discovered Penelope Leach's writings on parenting an infant, and the most profound thing she said was each parent/child relationship is unique -- it isn't just that as individuals our children behave differently or that we mothers each behave differently -- we become unique teams that work together as a unit in unique ways. It is the same with homeschooling, that each homeschooling family functions in unique ways, and it seems from the active participants on this board, we all are succeeding.

 

To compare what I do with what Nan, Jane or Lori does, is counter productive. My kids, my expectations and education make my homeschool experience unique. We can learn from one another, we can wistfully wish that we had pushed our kids to read the Aeneid in Latin, but we are not bad teachers or failures because we don't push our kids to do x,y or z. Success in homeschooling means that my kids know themselves and are not passive participants in their education. They know what they want in life and know what work needs to be done to reach their goal. I'm a successful homeschool mom because I've given my kids the academic and life skills they need to go out and live the lives they want.

 

And based on watching my young adult nieces and nephews and their parents, we will still be fretting over whether our children are living up to their potential until they are 30 or older!!

 

"Pish posh!" What a delightful response, Jenn! I agree completely with your assessment which I put in my favorite color.

 

Nan, your boys' ability to travel around the globe peacewalking demonstrates a far greater ability to adapt to situations than most American teens. Why you say you are not a "good teacher" is beyond me!

 

Referring to the thread in Nan's last post: My son recently discovered how easy it was to make a baked fruit dessert using one of my favorite recipes. On a college visit, some of the kids were cooking in the dorm kitchen for a get together. I don't think my son had realized that students might want to eat in places other than the dining hall or restaurants on occasion. So there is a skill set requiring further development this summer. The Boy certainly has eating potential--he has yet to build his cooking skill set to match!

[elegantlion]

 

I've been thinking about potential and homeschooling. In many ways, my goal for homeschooling is to do as little as possible so as to leave as much time as possible for my children to pursue their own goals and work on living up to their own potential. I know a good teacher will pull a person to someplace they didn't necessarily think they would go (Jane and The Aeneid), but I am not a good teacher. I'm not even trying to be a good teacher. I wish I were, but I'm just not. Therefore, the best thing I can do, I think, is minimize school and try not to get in the way of their own work. I think this is why I always feel so backwards here. I am trying to do the opposite of everyone else: instead of trying to make things as rigorous and high level and up-to-their-potential as possible, I am asking myself how little we can get away with without doing them a disservice.

 

-Nan

 

Your input is quite valuable! I'm in the Nan fan club, I read all your posts. (blush) Seriously, I have a son who at this point doesn't care about academics, he'd rather be absorbed in his own projects all day. Your posts have really helped me see outside of the box. You've inspired me to balance his academic needs and his need to be his own person. By the time he hits high school I hope his unique personality will shine through and I can mold some academic jargon out of what he is doing.

 

Your children are blessed to have you as their teacher.

 

Jane, thanks for starting this great topic. I've teared up reading a few of these posts.

[Nan in Mass]

I know I don't do badly teaching non-academic things. I taught, or ensured that he was taught, my oldest to sail a boat and he just sailed a friend's 24' sailboat home from half-way up the Maine coast and I am fit to bust proud of myself for teaching him enough that he could meet cold, hard-running currents, too much wind, running out of gas, torn sails, big seas, sandbars, canals, headwinds, and fog without killing himself or his passenger. I slanted his entire upbringing towards enabling him to do that. But anyone who has had to sit through me trying to explain something academic, who has watched me talk in circles or wide loops around something, who had had to put up with my sudden changes in direction or who has tried to hit my moving target, would not consider me a good academic teacher. I'm too fluff-headed. I have to choose our materials very, very carefully because I am capable of messing up the most fool-proof of curriculums because I alter everything I lay my hands on. You do not ever want to be stuck on a committee with me, and homeschooling is a lot like doing a twenty year project by committee. I bring very few talents and enthusiasms to the academics in our homeschool.

 

And as far as the backwards part goes, it isn't so much that I think I'm doing the wrong thing - I don't really, under our circumstances. It is more that I finally figured out why I always seem to be pulling in the opposite direction from everyone else, and that is rather interesting. It won't change anything.

 

Thank you for the reassurance, though. I'm definately feeling panicky and low about homeschooling my youngest, especially after this last year. He's coming along nicely in the non-academic things, but I think his academics would make anyone panic.

 

-Nan

[Rhondabee]

Nan, it hit me hard this year that at least with my kids, it is not so much about curriculum choice or content but how we do things and why we do things. The curriculum, content , or college won't matter if they can't think logically, work hard, persevere, manage their time and their stuff, communicate efficiently with others and so on.

 

I really appreciated the thoughts in your other post! I'm not a very practical person, and your post was full of very practical wisdom.

 

Still, I have been reaching this same conclusion in the last few weeks as well.

 

Due to reality, and the fact that learning how to work and meet deadlines is more important than what we learn at this point, we are making a sharp left-turn in our curriculum choices next year for history and lit (going to MFW's World History after 5 years of mom-planned mish-mash of stuff). I was pre-reading the Notgrass text, and it just so happened one of my DS's favorite heroes, Charles the Hammer, was mentioned in the text. Maybe two, three sentences of explanation of who he was and what he did. And so, I told DS that, you know, this is a compromise we're going to have to make. We can't spend a week on him this time! And DS was regaling me with all his remembered knowledge of Charles the Hammer from SOTW (which we read in middle school) and library books. Then he said, "But you know, Mom, it's ok if that book doesn't go into all that, because if it's a subject I'm really interested in, I'll just read about it on my own - like I did with Spartacus." And, I guess that's the fruit a classical education is supposed to bring about, but it was still rather surprising to hear him say it!

[Jane in NC]

Then he said, "But you know, Mom, it's ok if that book doesn't go into all that, because if it's a subject I'm really interested in, I'll just read about it on my own - like I did with Spartacus." And, I guess that's the fruit a classical education is supposed to bring about, but it was still rather surprising to hear him say it!

 

Yes! :cheers2: Pat yourself on the back, Rhonda.

[Nan in Mass]

GRIN That is all very well, but wait until they say, "But you know, Mum, I don't need to do any humanities in college because I'll just read about it on my own, like I did with great books." Takes you back a bit LOL. On the other hand, when mine said he did not want to take any peace classes in college (which everyone thought would be perfect for him) because he had a better way of learning it, it made sense to me. I waffle back and forth about the value of the ivory tower, other than a protected place to do research on protected sorts of things or do creative work.

 

And here is a sobering bit of practical advice: all the academics in the world are no good at all if you don't teach your child to drive well, and not to combine it with alcohol or drugs. They will be die if you don't. Having driving college students puts everything else into perspective like nothing else.

 

Not that I don't worry over everything else and analyze how homeschooling went, too. This is a good thread and I don't want it to stop. I just know that I worry a great deal more about my children dieing than about whether they know logrythms or how photosynthesis works or why Socrates died. About them dieing and about them being good. But maybe I just have more adventurous, experimental children than most...

 

-Nan

[Phoatogirl]

Now I'm worried. What cursive statement at the beginning of the SAT? I gave up handwriting with my oldest last year after trying since K to help him improve his printing. He can barely write his name in cursive after a year's instruction in it. Do we need to add handwriting back to our curriculum in 10th grade??

 

 

 

- My son was gracious enough to come to me yesterday to say that he had heard some high schoolers saying that the hardest part of the SAT was doing the statement in cursive at the beginning.

[cathmom]

My situation is different than a lot of yours, because while my oldest was in high school, I had a very difficult twin pregnancy and then had newborn twins (funny how that works!) We changed our plan for high school after 9th grade for this and other reasons. He did not do all that we wanted him to do. His education was not all that it could have been. He had wanted to graduate early, and then because of his procrastination (which I wasn't able to stay on top of because of my situation) just barely managed to finish on time. Once he realized that it was up to him to finish, he did.

 

I could spend time feeling bad about this, but when I made up his transcript, it actually ended up being somewhat impressive, even though we didn't do all we wanted. And he got into his first choice school, and got a full scholarship at another. Once he got to college, he's done well.

 

I have changed things up for my upcoming high school students. We will do less individual "subjects" and more units on science, literature, and history topics. This approach seems to work well for my soon-to-be high schoolers.

[Beth in SW WA]

 

Yup, I outsource ALL of high school. I learned that I couldn't push my son anymore at home by the time high school arrived. He needs to be challenged by other teachers. It's working.

 

 

Same here. Ds is challenged and learning a ton at high school. Our relationship is back to Mother/Son without the pressure of Teacher/Student (as in middle school).

 

Ds is extremely competitive. He wants to show up to class prepared and ready to rock. He wants to master the material and get a strong GPA. He is accountable to teachers and I can be his cheerleader & Mommy.

 

Next stop: Running Start, most likely.

 

I admire parents who can successfully teach their students through high school. A special place in heaven for you -- no doubt!:001_smile:

[Storm Bay]

Great thread and great posts here. What I do know is that my eldest is NOT living up to her potential in this her freshman year, nor has she ever in school. I have to choose my battles constantly. So next year I'm going to outsource German (no choice since I'm not capable of gradingh her work after this) and essay writing (hopefully the class fills up and is run!!!) Had I the money, I'd do more, I think.

 

I think it's interesting that your ds made that comment about the math lectures and the question about whether or not his 14 yo self would have agreed. It wouldn't surprise me if someday my dd feels I should have pushed her more than I'm doing or that she should have worked harder. Of course, the one time I met him, he was so pleasant and agreeable (wishy washy words for a teen who is not wishy washy) that I have a hard time imagining him being any other way :).

 

But all of this has helped me fine tune what I'm doing with my younger dc. Granted, they challenge me differently and not as extremely (well, my middle one may when she's a teen in other areas since my eldest is isn't rebellious outside of chores & academics). But that doesn't mean any of them are living up to all of their potential in every area.

[Corraleno]

n/m (spam was deleted)

Edited May 17, 2010 by Corraleno

[Leonor]

Thanks for this link to the college prep program.

 

Thanks for this thread. Thanks to all who have shared.

 

Thanks Nan for the books you suggested.

 

Always grateful to learn from all of you.