sad...re: AP exam

[cupajoe]

I just returned from driving my homeschooled dd to the local public high school for the AP Biology exam. This school has a student body of over 1500 students. Would you believe that other than my dd, there was only one, yes ONE, student taking the AP biology exam. How is that possible? I am blown away.

Why are these teachers, or more importantly the PARENTS, not expecting more from these students? Why, why why????? I am truly sad over this...just sad. That is all.

[Moira in MA]

Here's to a good test for your dd.

 

I dropped my eldest off this am, too - her 3rd exam this year. She is ready to be done.

 

There are just *so* many tests that the kids have to take, sometimes they can't stomach yet another one. Since many colleges don't accept AP test results there is a huge cost without any gain, particularly for seniors.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I was reading this article minutes before seeing this thread

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/10/education/10teacher.html

 

This quote says it all

“They party, they drink, they date,†she added. “In China, we study and study and study.â€

[cupajoe]

Best of luck to your dc as well.

I completely understand the idea that many students have daunting schedules that preclude taking more than one or two AP exams, and Biology might not be a top choice. I also know that many students do not even pursue AP courses (I have one dc that most likely will not attempt any AP level work). But in a school of more than 1500 students, I just cannot understand how there could only be ONE! I just feel that teachers and parents need to expect more from their students/children. There is a "quiet bigotry of low expectations" that seems to run rampant in our public high schools. Perhaps because I choose to homeschool I just shouldn't care...but I do. I want more for all students...not just my own.

[creekland]

Our school dropped AP tests when students couldn't/wouldn't do well on them. We rarely had anyone get a 3 much less a 4 or 5. Now they offer "College in the High School" which is a certified teacher teaching what's supposed to be the equivalent of a community college course in high school. The kids don't really do any better to be honest, but they get credit this way (from some colleges anyway - those that allow cc credit). Of course, then they go off to college and test into remedial classes IF there's a test. They get credit if there isn't. Many come home after freshman year... or they learn to study... finally.

[RENEEinVA]

Now you all have me rethinking where I want my dd to take her exams. Scary!

[msjones]

It may be that the kids and parents just aren't interested in AP credit, but there are some other factors to consider...

 

Many students will only take one or two AP tests, due to the amount of required study time.

 

It may be that this particular high school didn't offer an AP Biology course.

Consider that most college-bound students take Biology their sophomore year; they are studying chemistry or physics their senior year when they are most likely to take AP tests. If you are really interested, you may want to inquire as to how many students took the chemistry or physics AP test.

 

Maybe there were 75 kids taking the calculus test. Or the Spanish test. Or the literature test. I believe the calculus and literature tests are the most popular at my husband's school. He had 60 calculus students take the test last Wednesday. He had 46 calculus kids show up for a study/pizza night in his classroom last Monday!

 

Or, it may not be a school that pushes AP.

[Melissa B]

Are you sure the class was offered at that school? When I took AP Biology I had to drive each day to the next high school over. The schools would rotate which AP classes were taught and if you wanted to take an AP that wasn't at your school that year you had to transport yourself to the school offering the class. I still had the option to 'test' at my school even though I took the actual class all year at a different school. Otherwise, I could test at the other school but enter my own school code.

[Laura Corin]

It's partly just that the UK system specialises earlier, so by the time you are 17 you are normally studying only a total of five or six subjects (plus extra-curricular/non-academic subjects). But a school - a normal state (public) school - would enter many of its 18yo students for the equivalent of AP exams and expect to get some decent results.

 

Now the UK also has many pupils who leave school at sixteen, so the cohort of 17yos would be narrowed, but having only one taking biology is very surprising to me, because I don't think of UK education as very good.

 

Laura

[Tullia]

And, then there's the other end of the spectrum described in a thread below where the AP sections were packed but it appeared that a high percentage of those taking the test weren't exactly serious about it. Either extreme is troubling, IMO. Anyway, hope things go well for your daughter!

[msjones]

My husband was just pointing out another factor. Kids are more likely to take a test in a particular subject if a teacher offers a lot of AP support.

 

Some teachers (like my husband) are gung-ho about supporting kids who want to take the an AP test. He offers lots of extra calculus help -- suggested study schedules, practice tests, study nights where he brings in other math teachers or past students who did well on the test. He's even on an AP Calculus message board with other calculus teachers. (You should see the titles of the threads on that board!)

 

Lots of his math students (50 -60ish) take the test each year and many earn at least a 3.

 

In other departments, no one offers much AP support, so fewer kids take those tests.

 

So, perhaps this wasn't a reflection of low standards at that particular school. I suppose it may have been, but not necessarily.

[Susan in IL]

Ds#1 took 5 AP classes but only 3 exams. One he didn't take was because the college did not give credit no matter what the score. The other was in his major and they do not let you test out of classes in the major.

 

Ds#2 will have 4 AP classes, none of which he will sit for the exams. All of the classes will be in his major and like above, many colleges will not give credit or let you place out in your major.

 

They did gain a lot of knowledge and having taken the classes, they should do better when they have to take them in college. The money is just not well spent to take the exams.

[amsunshine]

I was reading this article minutes before seeing this thread

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/10/ed...10teacher.html

 

This quote says it all

“They party, they drink, they date,†she added. “In China, we study and study and study.â€

 

 

Oh my goodness. Sometimes the "culture" in the U.S. is truly embarrassing. :ack2:

[KnitWit]

I understand your feelings. I called the local high school to see my dd could take the PSAT there in the fall of her junior year. They haven't had anyone take it in so long, the ladies I talked to didn't know what I was talking about!

 

It kind of made me mad for those kids. We are zoned for a school in a lower income/ minority area...but that doesn't mean all these kids are DUMB! Obtaining National Merit status COULD be the ticket out to college for some!! Just seemed wrong to me to TOTALLY remove the option from them

Edited May 10, 2010 by MSPolly
clarification

[MBM]

I just returned from driving my homeschooled dd to the local public high school for the AP Biology exam. This school has a student body of over 1500 students. Would you believe that other than my dd, there was only one, yes ONE, student taking the AP biology exam. How is that possible? I am blown away.

Why are these teachers, or more importantly the PARENTS, not expecting more from these students? Why, why why????? I am truly sad over this...just sad. That is all.

 

Maybe the school advises students not to take that particular test because colleges might be reluctant to accept it as credit? Or, a more popular exam conflicted with that time slot?

[Jan in SC]

I went to a very competitive high school. In order to take AP math, Algebra had to have been started at 7th grade. AP Biology was a second year of Biology and three other lab sciences were taken first. That meant that only about 20 students of 2500 were taking AP Biology. The same with AP Physics and Chemistry.

History was a little different, and it was the only class that could be replaced by taking an AP, instead of taking a regular class first, then continuing with the AP class.

 

The most popular AP class in our high school was Psychology. It could be counted as an elective in the senior year, and anyone could take it.

 

My husband went to a high school in another part of the state and he could chose an AP level the first time. FOr example, his English 4 (Senior English) could be AP, Honors, or a regular English class. At my school, English 4 had to be taken and then English 5 was the AP class. Only a handful of students met these requirements. However, the scores were almost all 5s.

[cupajoe]

Thanks for all the thoughts on this issue.

I've been thinking about the possible reasons for such a poor showing this morning, and one possibility in particular doesn't add up to me. As far as colleges accepting AP scores, MOST colleges/universities will accept AP scores of 4 or 5 for credit. Many have the caveat that they will not award credit if the course is within one's major. If students are taking 4 or 5 (or more) AP courses over the course of their high school careers (as some of you indicated as a likely possibility), they cannot ALL be part of one's major. That is impossible. SO, why avoid taking the tests that are not within one's intended major? Why take 5 AP courses and NOT take a single exam? AP exams are A LOT cheaper than college courses, no? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

As far as my dds AP Biology exam this morning, I spoke with the guidance counselor at the school when I picked up dd today (guidance office handles ordering AP exams, etc). Apparently the school has "at least 28 or so" students in the AP Biology class but the students opt not to take the exam.

Apparently, the reason many students take the AP classes is just to boost their GPA. My dd had a chance to talk with the ONE girl taking the test with her today during the break and she said most of the students don't take the test because they know most people don't do well on the exam, so they don't waste their time studying for it. This girl was somewhat new to the school and said in her old school they were only awarded AP credit if they took the exam. This particular school awards AP credit whether or not they take the exam. So, they take the course without any intention of taking the exam...just to boost GPA.

It doesn't make sense to me to do all that extra work (at least that was my dd's experience) and spend hours and hours on advanced biology studies, only to turn around and deny yourself the mere possibility of scoring well enough to earn potential college credit. But I guess to each his own.

IMO, this is just one more example of the "dumbing down" of our education system as a whole. Don't teach to a higher standard, thereby enabling students to feel confident with their knowledge of the subject area. Don't EXPECT students to take the exam...after all, the exam doesn't affect their GPAs as much as those two little letters "AP" do. Don't care whether students perform to the level to which they should be capable of after they've completed an AP course.

While some students undoubtedly have good reasons for not taking the exam, I cannot believe that 27 out of "28 or so" did. Again...sad.

Edited May 10, 2010 by cupajoe

[4wildberrys]

I was reading this article minutes before seeing this thread

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/10/education/10teacher.html

 

This quote says it all

“They party, they drink, they date,†she added. “In China, we study and study and study.â€

 

Just 'WOW'! And we have the gall to complain when companies outsource to countries like China.

[Jane in NC]

I may be mistaken, but I thought that the motivation behind the College Board instituting the formal audit procedure a couple of years ago was a reaction to schools offering supposed AP courses, i.e. courses in name only which contained neither the content nor led to students taking the AP exam. If a school has an AP course on the books with the College Board but few if any students taking the exam, isn't the CB supposed to protest the use of their copyrighted label?

 

Some school systems (or so I thought) allow the use of the label AP only for students who take the exam; the rest earn the honors label. That seems fair to me.

 

One of my son's friends is taking three AP classes. I know that he did not take one of the exams. His senior project was due at the end of April and then two of the tests were scheduled back to back last week; he felt that he could not adequately prepare for one of them . This was something that he did not predict at the beginning of the year. More of a resignation to the reality of deadlines...

[Charles Wallace]

I may be mistaken, but I thought that the motivation behind the College Board instituting the formal audit procedure a couple of years ago was a reaction to schools offering supposed AP courses, i.e. courses in name only which contained neither the content nor led to students taking the AP exam. If a school has an AP course on the books with the College Board but few if any students taking the exam, isn't the CB supposed to protest the use of their copyrighted label?

 

Some school systems (or so I thought) allow the use of the label AP only for students who take the exam; the rest earn the honors label. That seems fair to me.

 

One of my son's friends is taking three AP classes. I know that he did not take one of the exams. His senior project was due at the end of April and then two of the tests were scheduled back to back last week; he felt that he could not adequately prepare for one of them . This was something that he did not predict at the beginning of the year. More of a resignation to the reality of deadlines...

 

Newsflash.

Just because a teacher says she or he is teaching XYZ doesn't mean that this is what goes down behind the doors.

 

A teacher could copy, cut, and paste a friend's AP syllabus and offer it to the CB as her own. Then she could shut her doors and do the same ol', same ol', just like she's always done, with little regard for whether the students succeed or fail.

 

Just sayin'.

[MBM]

Newsflash.

Just because a teacher says she or he is teaching XYZ doesn't mean that this is what goes down behind the doors.

 

A teacher could copy, cut, and paste a friend's AP syllabus and offer it to the CB as her own. Then she could shut her doors and do the same ol', same ol', just like she's always done, with little regard for whether the students succeed or fail.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Ha! I knew it. I've suspected this for years and give all syllabi the doubting squinty-eyed once over. (We afterschool.) Sometimes, I'm pleasantly surprised, though. :)

 

Anyway, cupajoe, just be grateful your child didn't have to sit with the young hooligans mentioned in that other AP thread. :D

[creekland]

Thanks for all the thoughts on this issue.

I've been thinking about the possible reasons for such a poor showing this morning, and one possibility in particular doesn't add up to me. As far as colleges accepting AP scores, MOST colleges/universities will accept AP scores of 4 or 5 for credit. Many have the caveat that they will not award credit if the course is within one's major. If students are taking 4 or 5 (or more) AP courses over the course of their high school careers (as some of you indicated as a likely possibility), they cannot ALL be part of one's major. That is impossible. SO, why avoid taking the tests that are not within one's intended major? Why take 5 AP courses and NOT take a single exam? AP exams are A LOT cheaper than college courses, no? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

As far as my dds AP Biology exam this morning, I spoke with the guidance counselor at the school when I picked up dd today (guidance office handles ordering AP exams, etc). Apparently the school has "at least 28 or so" students in the AP Biology class but the students opt not to take the exam.

Apparently, the reason many students take the AP classes is just to boost their GPA. My dd had a chance to talk with the ONE girl taking the test with her today during the break and she said most of the students don't take the test because they know most people don't do well on the exam, so they don't waste their time studying for it. This girl was somewhat new to the school and said in her old school they were only awarded AP credit if they took the exam. This particular school awards AP credit whether or not they take the exam. So, they take the course without any intention of taking the exam...just to boost GPA.

It doesn't make sense to me to do all that extra work (at least that was my dd's experience) and spend hours and hours on advanced biology studies, only to turn around and deny yourself the mere possibility of scoring well enough to earn potential college credit. But I guess to each his own.

IMO, this is just one more example of the "dumbing down" of our education system as a whole. Don't teach to a higher standard, thereby enabling students to feel confident with their knowledge of the subject area. Don't EXPECT students to take the exam...after all, the exam doesn't affect their GPAs as much as those two little letters "AP" do. Don't care whether students perform to the level to which they should be capable of after they've completed an AP course.

While some students undoubtedly have good reasons for not taking the exam, I cannot believe that 27 out of "28 or so" did. Again...sad.

 

This sound remarkably like our school. Our school also had a policy that a student couldn't get below a "B" in the class no matter what they did (though if they did absolutely nothing, they could get an F). The policy was set because these were the "best" kids and they didn't want them harmed by a low grade taking a tough course. In reality, it ended up setting a minimum work mentality since the kids knew they couldn't get a bad grade. They were allowed to retest over and over (regular tests) until they got a high enough score. They knew when the real test came around they couldn't do it, so didn't bother, but they got credit on their transcript.

 

As I said before, our school dropped AP (or did AP drop them???) in favor of the cc classes in the high school (not at the cc). So now, they get credit... from many "average" colleges.

 

And as for AP, even though many colleges don't give credit for them - esp in their major - they still expect to see them on the transcript just to be competitive to get in. I'm going to be hunting around to find a place for my middle son to take some even though I know he won't get credit. He has to prove he's of the caliber to get in where he wants to go. If the other applicants all have AP's, I don't think it will look good for my son not to have them even with high SAT/ACT scores (which other applicants will likely have too).

[Jane in NC]

Newsflash.

Just because a teacher says she or he is teaching XYZ doesn't mean that this is what goes down behind the doors.

 

A teacher could copy, cut, and paste a friend's AP syllabus and offer it to the CB as her own. Then she could shut her doors and do the same ol', same ol', just like she's always done, with little regard for whether the students succeed or fail.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Yup. A student whom I recently tutored in math told me she took AP Chemistry last year. I asked her about the AP exam. "Oh, no one in the class took the exam." "But it was AP Chemistry--isn't the point to take the exam?" "Well Mr. Smith said the material on the AP Chem test was too hard so he was going to teach an easier course." What I do not know is if the students in the class have AP Chemistry listed on their transcripts which in my opinion is nothing but disingenuous. Even for the school to have pretended that the students were enrolling in AP Chemistry is disturbing since the audited syllabus, the guiding light for the course, was nothing but a sham.

 

I remember when Newsweek magazine first published a list of the best 1000 high schools in the county. There was a local school on the list but schools considered better in a city down the road were not. The newspaper for that city did an investigation and found that Newsweek considered things like the number of students enrolled in AP. At that time, our rural high school had a phenomenal number of students enrolled in AP. Few took the exam and evener fewer earned 3's or better. What boggled my mind at the time (and added more evidence in favor of homeschooling) was that none of the students at the school had earned a 3 or higher on a science AP. Here was a school that was boasting about its AP class offerings, yet few students received any college credit for the courses. This was justified by the administration which claimed that exposure to the content of AP courses helped students excel in college. As I earlier noted, it is not clear whether the content was indeed college level.

 

And people wonder why I bristle so at labels like Honors! I even mistrust course names, not seeing the equivalency of math courses named Precalculus for example. Naive person that I am, I want to say "Show me the syllabus!" but from Charles Wallace's post we are reminded that even that syllabus is not the proof in the pudding. (Isn't that a wonder phrase, "proof in the pudding"?)

[mom31257]

I was reading this article minutes before seeing this thread

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/10/education/10teacher.html

 

This quote says it all

“They party, they drink, they date,†she added. “In China, we study and study and study.â€

 

This confirms what I've thought all along. What's wrong with education in America is not the teachers, but the culture and the kids...well, I think the bureaucracy, too. Even a boy who wants to be a surgeon doesn't want to study all day? That's scary!

[Charles Wallace]

Yup. A student whom I recently tutored in math told me she took AP Chemistry last year. I asked her about the AP exam. "Oh, no one in the class took the exam." "But it was AP Chemistry--isn't the point to take the exam?" "Well Mr. Smith said the material on the AP Chem test was too hard so he was going to teach an easier course." What I do not know is if the students in the class have AP Chemistry listed on their transcripts which in my opinion is nothing but disingenuous. Even for the school to have pretended that the students were enrolling in AP Chemistry is disturbing since the audited syllabus, the guiding light for the course, was nothing but a sham.

 

Okay, silly, silly question. WHY DON'T PARENTS SUE??

 

I remember when Newsweek magazine first published a list of the best 1000 high schools in the county. There was a local school on the list but schools considered better in a city down the road were not. The newspaper for that city did an investigation and found that Newsweek considered things like the number of students enrolled in AP. At that time, our rural high school had a phenomenal number of students enrolled in AP. Few took the exam and evener fewer earned 3's or better. What boggled my mind at the time (and added more evidence in favor of homeschooling) was that none of the students at the school had earned a 3 or higher on a science AP. Here was a school that was boasting about its AP class offerings, yet few students received any college credit for the courses. This was justified by the administration which claimed that exposure to the content of AP courses helped students excel in college. As I earlier noted, it is not clear whether the content was indeed college level.

 

 

That goes down at a LOT of schools. Few parents think to question things like the Mathews List. Fewer parents think of asking the school what an AP teacher's pass rate happens to be BEFORE they sign their kid up to take a class. You're right on the money in asking whether the content is indeed college level.

[MBM]

Okay, silly, silly question. WHY DON'T PARENTS SUE??

 

That goes down at a LOT of schools. Few parents think to question things like the Mathews List. Fewer parents think of asking the school what an AP teacher's pass rate happens to be BEFORE they sign their kid up to take a class. You're right on the money in asking whether the content is indeed college level.

 

Charles Wallace, you are a breath of fresh air! :)

 

We fear making waves with the school because of the possibility of dealing with a nut job teacher (and/or principal) who isn't afraid to insidiously retaliate against our child. This happened to us once. We *did battle* with a deranged second-grade teacher, and she made life h*ll for our son, who was just a little guy. Talk about bullying.

 

In our experience, schools have appeased us to no end with pie-in-the-sky promises and lofty goals. Too many times, nothing comes of it. On the flip side, our kids have also had responsible, caring teachers who are concerned with teaching. I'd like to clone them and distribute them among the masses. It's the slackers and demoralized teachers who drive me nuts.

 

Unfortunately, we live in a district that has large schools, and we don't know which teachers are the good ones. Despite questioning them, sometimes all I get is a well-rehearsed song and dance. I'm sure you've seen this, too. It's very frustrating.

 

And, yes, I'd prefer to homeschool, but dh is not behind it.

 

Just sign me,

 

The Cynical Afterschooling Mom

[jananc]

Our local school district is undergoing severe budget cuts, laying off teachers, etc. In this morning's paper was this quote:

 

To avoid forcing three popular magnet schools into later hours, the board instead decided to save $1.3 million by making students pay fees for Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate exams

 

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/05/12/1429672/three-cms-magnets-get-break-on.html#ixzz0nirLalBv

They were paying 1.3 *million* each year to cover the costs of these exams???!!!

[danielle]

I've followed a number of the College Board AP lists over the last 3 years, and I'm astonished at all the projects teachers cook up for AP classes. The first time around I was very intimidated and bought all the suggested books. Half way thru, dd chucked them all, stuck to one book, read it and did a review and got a 5 (Human Geo). Next, she tackled USGov, used the free program at the National Repository of Online courses along with reading a text. Another 5. This year she basically "read the book" for APComp Gov and used Thinkwell for Macroecon. We're keeping our fingers crossed, but she thought AP Compgov was a breeze and tomorrow is the Macro test.

 

What I'm wondering is whether school kids get distracted by too much, and if they could just focus and study, it might work better. Yes, I know about learning styles and multiple streams of input, but sometimes, maybe supergluing your pants to the seat is what it takes to pass AP.

Danielle

[Jane in NC]

Okay, silly, silly question. WHY DON'T PARENTS SUE??

 

 

The lack of engagement that many parents in my area feel toward school is astonishing to me. It seems that parents of elementary aged kids are gungho and involved in the classroom, PTA, etc. As kids get older, parents spend many hours on the soccer fields or transporting their preteen football players or cheerleaders to practice, but seem to trust the school to do the right thing.

 

I cannot tell you how many times I asked parents of middle and high school students (back when my son was in elementary school) about reading lists or opportunities offered by the schools. They seemed to know little if anything about their children's education. In a recent thread, I used the term "provincialism" to describe the lax attitude they have in assuming that the local schools, the local CC, the regional university down the road are all "good enough".

 

Homeschool parents figure out a lot via the Internet. We see this as part of our duty whereas many parents of public school children (at least locally) do not understand that a parental role should be played in their student's education. I have had parents tell me that their child is in AP Precalculus. There is no such course. I don't think they even know what AP is! It just sounds good.

 

 

... but sometimes, maybe supergluing your pants to the seat is what it takes to pass AP.

Danielle

 

:lol: But very true.

[Jane in NC]

Our local school district is undergoing severe budget cuts, laying off teachers, etc. In this morning's paper was this quote:

 

 

To avoid forcing three popular magnet schools into later hours, the board instead decided to save $1.3 million by making students pay fees for Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate exams

 

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/05/12/1429672/three-cms-magnets-get-break-on.html#ixzz0nirLalBv

They were paying 1.3 *million* each year to cover the costs of these exams???!!!

 

 

 

Hmmm...I suspect that many exams are paid for but not taken (much to the financial benefit of the "non-profit" College Board) or not taken seriously. I wonder if cutbacks by this and other school systems will influence the number of students taking the tests down the road and scoring distributions.

[2cents]

This same thing happened to my son. He took the macroeconomics exam all by himself. I was surprised too.

[jananc]

Danielle, congrats to your dd on her success! Would you care to share which US Gov textbook your dd used? I might try the hippocampus route with my ds next year -- it looks pretty good!

[MBM]

The lack of engagement that many parents in my area feel toward school is astonishing to me. It seems that parents of elementary aged kids are gungho and involved in the classroom, PTA, etc. As kids get older, parents spend many hours on the soccer fields or transporting their preteen football players or cheerleaders to practice, but seem to trust the school to do the right thing.

 

I cannot tell you how many times I asked parents of middle and high school students (back when my son was in elementary school) about reading lists or opportunities offered by the schools. They seemed to know little if anything about their children's education. In a recent thread, I used the term "provincialism" to describe the lax attitude they have in assuming that the local schools, the local CC, the regional university down the road are all "good enough".

 

 

I find that astonishing, too. At my son's present school one other mother -- a former homeschooler -- takes great interest in academics. The rest are *involved* with volunteering for school functions or occasionally helping out teachers, but academics are not discussed or questioned and often take a back seat to other, more frivolous activities anyway.

 

Years ago I suggested we create suggested reading lists and post them online, but both the principal and PTA turned it down. Their reason was that it's not important. :confused: Only one teacher hands out an optional, suggested reading list for summer. Six titles -- that's it.

 

Another example: the library is chock-full of wonderful titles. I used to help run it and would happily do so again, but it's only available to the lower grades. Grades 5 and up don't ever use it. :confused:

 

I am just boggled by the attitudes I've come across at this school, so I just do my own thing at home.

[FloridaLisa]

I'm loling because it seems we usually have an AP rant about this time of year. :D For me, it's a love-hate relationship. It's a hoop through which we have jumped (and my dc will likely continue) MOSTLY to give their transcripts some objectivity and to show college-readiness.

 

I will add that in the APGov class that I taught in a homeschool co-op last year, only half of my students sat for the exam. I was glad that the others could choose whether to sit for the exam. They *had* taken a college-level government class, several were ninth graders and it was a stretch. I'm glad their transcript could reflect that.

 

I know FLVS (Florida Virtual) requires AP students to sit for the exam in order to earn AP credit. Many teachers on the listserve also noted their schools required it. It doesn't at all make for a better class; maybe the requirement is to justify the AP funding. For homeschoolers, I do think it's important to sit for the exam to give some outside objectivity to the course grade, especially if it's not through an accredited group.

 

Lisa, who has no kids taking AP this year and has had a peaceful week in the Florida Keys instead. :D

[danielle]

Jana,

She used the MacGregor Burns textbook, and the readings book by Peter Walsh. Hippocampus has these as suggested books and she just followed along with the readings.

 

BTW, on the College Board lists it seems that both the teachers and students HATE the James Q. Wilson text--not because of the politics, but because of the readability factor. When I looked into it, that was the one PA homeschoolers site used, so we ruled out that possibility--turned out not to be necessary--NROC/Hippocampus did the job.

Danielle

[jananc]

thank you, Danielle! :-)

[Charles Wallace]

Charles Wallace, you are a breath of fresh air! :)

 

We fear making waves with the school because of the possibility of dealing with a nut job teacher (and/or principal) who isn't afraid to insidiously retaliate against our child. This happened to us once. We *did battle* with a deranged second-grade teacher, and she made life h*ll for our son, who was just a little guy. Talk about bullying.

Niiiiiice. I mean, hey -- I joke about becoming a teacher because my other career choices (I.R.S. auditor and dentist specializing in painful root canals) involved too much math, but there really are some people out there who remind me of the teacher in Matilda.

 

Unfortunately, we live in a district that has large schools, and we don't know which teachers are the good ones. Despite questioning them, sometimes all I get is a well-rehearsed song and dance. I'm sure you've seen this, too. It's very frustrating.

 

And, yes, I'd prefer to homeschool, but dh is not behind it.

 

Just sign me,

 

The Cynical Afterschooling Mom

 

 

How frustrating!

[Charles Wallace]

I've followed a number of the College Board AP lists over the last 3 years, and I'm astonished at all the projects teachers cook up for AP classes. The first time around I was very intimidated and bought all the suggested books. Half way thru, dd chucked them all, stuck to one book, read it and did a review and got a 5 (Human Geo). Next, she tackled USGov, used the free program at the National Repository of Online courses along with reading a text. Another 5. This year she basically "read the book" for APComp Gov and used Thinkwell for Macroecon. We're keeping our fingers crossed, but she thought AP Compgov was a breeze and tomorrow is the Macro test.

 

What I'm wondering is whether school kids get distracted by too much, and if they could just focus and study, it might work better. Yes, I know about learning styles and multiple streams of input, but sometimes, maybe supergluing your pants to the seat is what it takes to pass AP.

Danielle

 

Speaking from my own opinion here, I've seen the quality of education decline very sharply since the advent of multiple intelligence theory. I honestly think it's been an excuse to have posters and PowerPoints replace actual content-rich instruction...Superglue not included.:D

[Elisa]

At my daughter's school, if you take an AP class you MUST take the exam. And all freshmen, sophomores and juniors take the PSAT.

[Rhonda in TX]

They were allowed to retest over and over (regular tests) until they got a high enough score.

 

There are homeschoolers that do this. They have the mentality of "why should any homeschooler get less than an A?"

[Rhonda in TX]

SO, why avoid taking the tests that are not within one's intended major? Why take 5 AP courses and NOT take a single exam? AP exams are A LOT cheaper than college courses, no? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

I don't know how many students around here take the AP tests, but I do know why they take the AP classes. State schools in Texas have automatic acceptance for the top 10 (I think) percent in a school's class. Once those places are taken at the more prestigious schools, it becomes difficult to get in as a freshman. So, if you want to be competitive in your school, and get in that top percentage group, you take as many AP and honors classes as you can to boost your GPA.

 

For some parents/kids, it's not about getting college credit. It's about making it easier to get into their college of choice.

[vonfirmath]

It may be that this particular high school didn't offer an AP Biology course.

Consider that most college-bound students take Biology their sophomore year; they are studying chemistry or physics their senior year when they are most likely to take AP tests. If you are really interested, you may want to inquire as to how many students took the chemistry or physics AP test.

 

 

This was me in HS. I took AP Calculus BC, AP Physics and AP Chemistry but had NO interest in AP Biology.

[junepep]

"Originally Posted by cupajoe

SO, why avoid taking the tests that are not within one's intended major? Why take 5 AP courses and NOT take a single exam? AP exams are A LOT cheaper than college courses, no? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?"

 

 

I don't know how many students around here take the AP tests, but I do know why they take the AP classes. State schools in Texas have automatic acceptance for the top 10 (I think) percent in a school's class. Once those places are taken at the more prestigious schools, it becomes difficult to get in as a freshman. So, if you want to be competitive in your school, and get in that top percentage group, you take as many AP and honors classes as you can to boost your GPA.

 

For some parents/kids, it's not about getting college credit. It's about making it easier to get into their college of choice.

 

I agree, simply having the classes on your transcript is enough.

 

To the top quote re: avoiding taking the tests out of 4 AP Exams taken my senior year I got 3s and 4s, neither grade qualified me to "Skip" a college level class - they only accepted 5s in humanities (for majors) and 4s in the sciences. The money spent on those exams was a complete waste (although in retrospect a little studying might have been a good idea, but at the time the idea of having to do work in school was completely foreign to me LOL).

 

The only sciences available at my HS btw were physics (which I took) and chem. . . I never even realized that there WAS an AP Bio exam!! :)

 

So OP -- Not every HS offers every AP course (or at least they didn't ~15 years ago *grin*) - if that still holds true, it might be why only 2 kids taking the test. There's a good chance that the other kid wasn't a student there either!!

[Laurie4b]

I understand your feelings. I called the local high school to see my dd could take the PSAT there in the fall of her junior year. They haven't had anyone take it in so long, the ladies I talked to didn't know what I was talking about!

 

It kind of made me mad for those kids. We are zoned for a school in a lower income/ minority area...but that doesn't mean all these kids are DUMB! Obtaining National Merit status COULD be the ticket out to college for some!! Just seemed wrong to me to TOTALLY remove the option from them

 

 

Wow. Not to even offer the PSAT seems like educational negligence. Just WOW.

 

I have mixed feelings about all the AP stuff, frankly. Not sure there is a reason to push college into high school and first grade into preschool, KWIM? We play the game anyway with the AP.

 

But no PSAT? Can't fathom that.