Has anyone compared LofFred Algebra to Dolciani Alg 1?

[Kimber]

I've been trying to do this with the 60's version of Dolciani. I was actually apprehensive about using the book this year, so I decided to let my daughter start with Fred Algebra and the Home Companion.

 

Well, yesterday, for the first time, I compared the two, and the only chapters that Dolciani has that Fred doesn't are chapters 3 and 4. Perusing the TOC's in both and looking through the chapters as well, they cover the same material, including sets. The order in which the information is grouped and taught is different, but otherwise, it appears to me, it is the same in content.

 

My plan is to have my daughter stop Fred after Chapter 2, for a short while, to cover Chapters 3 and 4 in Dolciani. I'll check again, for more proof work, in case I missed some in another chapter, and may occasionally have her go back to Dolciani.

 

As far as proofs, Fred even provides proofs, in a more relaxed manner than Dolciani, but they're there. So I'm thinking of requiring her to work or reproduce those proofs during her test.

 

After all of the talk about the Dolciani books and proofs, I feel guilty about not using them to the fullest. But I can't help but shake the thought that I did Calculus 3 with proofs and had no idea what I was doing. The proofs meant nothing to me, they were too abstract, but I could reproduce them on tests for A's.

 

Whereas with Fred, I know she'll like math and understand it, and she'll cover the exact same material.

 

Does anyone see a flaw in this?

 

Thanks,

 

Kimberly

Edited April 26, 2010 by Kimber

[PeterPan]

Sounds good to me! And if my opinion doesn't matter, then consider this a bump. :)

[elegantlion]

Wow! You're awesome. These are the two books we are using next year. I'm working through LOF on my own, but hadn't had time to go through my Dolciani (60s) to compare yet.

 

Thank you for the information on the chapters, I'll make sure ds gets to those.

 

I plan to use the Dolciani in places where he might need more practice. The only other thing I'm going to have him make is a master list of formulas for reference. They tend to get buried in the text of LoF.

 

Interested to hear what others have to say as well.

[Kimber]

Thanks for bump, Elizabeth. And, Elegantlion, I hope this helps you too. I really don't want to make algebra a complete turn off for my daughter, but she is actually good at abstract concepts. So we'll try the Dolciani, chapters 3 and 4, and see how it goes.

 

She'll probaly have those finished by early summer. I'll tell you how the transition between the two goes.

 

(We're schooling this summer because we lost 3 months of school time with our move.)

 

Good Luck

[sendgary]

Kimber, this is useful to me because I was thinking about using Dolciani. But what exactly does she include in chapters 3&4 that are not in LoF?

 

Thanks,

Gary

[Kimber]

In the 60's Dolciani, Chapter 3 includes the rules of operations: assumptions, axioms and postulates.

 

3.1 Axioms of equality

3.2 The Closure Properties

3.3 Commutative and Associate Properties of Arithmetic

3.4 Distributive property; special properties of 1 and 0

3.5 Addition and Subtraction Properties of Equality

 

The rest of chapter 3 is the application of these properties to write proofs for the prolems.

 

For an example, they show

 

a + c is a number....................Closure property of addition

a+c = a+c...............................Reflexive property of equality

.....a= b ..................................Given

a+c = b+c ..............................Substitution principle

 

Then the student is asked to write the proof for the subtraction property of equality;

 

For each a, each b, and each c, for which a-c is a number, if a= b, then a-c =b-c.

 

 

Chapter 4

 

Starts out with traditional number line type problems with positive and negative numbers, but moves into the proofs again, requiring more of the above.

 

Chapter 4 provides more problems for students such as labeling proofs or writing proofs so that they truly understand the logic behind the algebra.

 

Problems on page 127 requires the students to write a chain of equations leading to the stated equation. Justify each equation.

 

Sample

 

b+[a+(-b)] = a

Solution

 

b+[a+(-b)] = b + [(-b) + a]..........Commutative property

..................= [b+(-b)]+a..............Associative property

..................= 0 + a.......................Property of opposites

..................= a.............................Property of 0

 

And it's not that the Life of Fred books don't cover how to do these problems or teach the same material, it's just that Fred algebra introduces the proofs, but doesn't teach them or require them of the student as the 60's Dolciani book does.

 

So some of this will most assuredly be taught in Fred, just not the focus on the proofs.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Kimber

[elegantlion]

Thanks for bump, Elizabeth. And, Elegantlion, I hope this helps you too. I really don't want to make algebra a complete turn off for my daughter, but she is actually good at abstract concepts. So we'll try the Dolciani, chapters 3 and 4, and see how it goes.

 

She'll probaly have those finished by early summer. I'll tell you how the transition between the two goes.

 

(We're schooling this summer because we lost 3 months of school time with our move.)

 

Good Luck

 

We're finishing up LoF pre-algebra now and I'm working through LoF Beginning Algebra. I'll get out my Dolciani and make sure I cover those chapters myself, I need the refresher.

[Storm Bay]

My dd has done all of the 1965 Dolciani and has read most of the LOF books. My suggestion would be to do LoF first and then follow it with the Dolciani. This is my plan for my younger two. In fact, one of them is doing LoF Beginning Algebra right now. My eldest did Algebra 1 twice, and I highly recommend it for any student (my eldest is gifted & strong in math, but still benefitted from doing it twice with two different approaches. We didn't own LoF at that time, though, so she read it later. She has also done all of LoF Geometry.) Doing Algebra 1 twice with different curricula is a great idea if you have or can make the time.

 

She said it's easy to rush through LoF, whereas you need to take more time with Dolciani. She liked Dolciani, but does say that some of the numbers are outdated, such as buying a house for $18,000. That said, it didn't stop her from learning the math. She really learned how to think the Algebra going through Dolciani. How much of that was just the text, which is a good one, and how much of it was simply her doing it a second time at a slightly older age I can't say. She has also done about 1/3 of Gelfand's Algebra, but found some of it very difficult. In fact, some of the problems have even been difficult for Adrian (aka Charon.) It's a great book, but we use it as an extra. I plan to bring it out for Algebra 2, but am not sure how much she'll get done since she is going to do Dolciani Algebra 2 as her main text since she insisted I buy it before seeing LoF.

[MyFourSons]

For those of you using the older edition, where did you purchase it? I am having a hard time finding anything from before 1979. Thank you!

[elegantlion]

For those of you using the older edition, where did you purchase it? I am having a hard time finding anything from before 1979. Thank you!

 

I found mine on amazon, thanks to a tip from a friend. I've also had success on paperbackswap, although I think that was more blind luck.

[Kimber]

How did you schedule the 60's Dolciani? And do you have a general idea of the daily time commitment?

 

I wouldn't say my daughter is gifted in math. Only until recently, she frequently made minor computational errors. However, she is very good at making connections and at critical thinking without having to work at it. Her reasoning skills are amazing. For that reason, I think she'll be okay with Algebra. But I want to spend more time on actual problem solving.

 

I'm thinking the Art of Problem solving books are in my kids future.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Kimber

[Beth in Central TX]

All of my 1960's Dolciani Teacher Editions include an assignment guide that plans out 170 lessons for a Minimum Course, Average Course, or Maximum Course. My oldest son is finishing up the Maximum Course for Dolciani's Modern Algebra Book 1. He has really enjoyed this course and says that it is his favorite textbook of all time (but he does give the disclaimer that Dolciani's Geometry Book might win out next year).

 

My middle son is good in math, but it's not his strength, so I might have him do the the Average Course. The Maximum Course was very challenging this year; I had my husband help out many times when we were both stumped.

[Kimber]

Thanks Beth,

 

I have a very small mismatched collection of Dolciani books. I don't have a 60's teacher's edition. But after reading your post, I checked my later editions and I have a really nice 1974 edition that teaches proofs heavily as well as introduces symbolic logic.

 

I believe it focuses so much on proofs and includes logic because it was also written to teach Basic programming. I am going to give that a try and follow the course outline as written in the teacher's edition.

 

Thanks so much,

 

Kimberly

[Kimber]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm not sure what we'll do, but I'll continue on with the Dolciani introducing theorems and stuff. Once we understand the next three chapters, (2, 3, and 4) in the 74 edition, I'll talk with my daughter and see where we go from there.

 

Thanks a lot everyone.

[Storm Bay]

For those of you using the older edition, where did you purchase it? I am having a hard time finding anything from before 1979. Thank you!

 

 

We bought it on Amazon. I also happened to find an Algebra 2 for free somewhere after buying a copy on Amazon (but different years, so I'm keeping both since different dc might like 1965 vs 1975.)

 

All the editions from 1965-1975 of Structures and Methods are good, despite my eldest's opinion to the contrary.

[Jenn in Mo]

I also found mine used on Amazon. Sometimes they are listed crazy high - $80-100, but sometimes you can find them for $8 with shipping. WooHoo! We did the happy dance. Keep checking back on there, you never know when one will pop up.