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#1 Jen+4dc

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 07:38 AM

This year we've been using level 2 Ancients. It's gotten done, but it's sooooo light on literature I feel like I've spent too much time adding to and tweaking (not a fan of Van Loon, either).

I had decided to just go history a la WTM next year. My plan had been SOTW 2 and AG with the youngers and having the olders sit in on that then do k12's Human Odyssey and KFH as their spine. Now, of course, I'm second guessing myself....:glare:.

I keep reading how much people loved HO Level 2 Middle Ages and how much it helped their kids writing. My kids could really use help there...but history used to be their favorite subject (we did SL core 3 and then core 4 the previous 2 years of hsing). This year HO Ancients has developed a "hate" of history for them. I know part of that is being expected to think and write, not just read (one of the reasons I did not continue with SL). But, I do NOT want to kill their love of history for good! I think it can be resurrected next year if I do it right, :tongue_smilie:I'm just not sure what right is. Dd13 and ds11 are in 8th and 6th so I don't feel like I can just lay back and let them do SOTW with the youngers and have history be "gravy."

Anyone use HO level 2 Ancients and then Middle Ages? Can you tell me if they are really that different? When I look at the extensive samples online all I see in Middle Ages is more of the same that they did in Ancients, just insert a different page # and date???? What am I missing?:bigear::bigear:

Thanks!

#2 Capt_Uhura

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 08:05 AM

TeaTotaler is doing HO level 2 along w/ Human Odyssey, perhaps she'll chime in for you. IF not, you can drop her a PM. I think the writing builds within a level as you move through the time periods.

We're doing HO level 2 Ancients along with K12's Human Odyssey as a spine in place of Van Loon. It is a tough line to walk not squelching their love of a subject while also learning the skills (critical thinking and writing) they need. I have mixed feelings about what I'm using for chemistry for this very reason. I've compromised by doing some of the physical writing for them and/or doing parts of it orally. Perhaps you can do the same for HO level 2 Middle Ages. Pick out the activities which are directly aligned with your goals and skip the rest or do them orally. I think a lot can be learned just from discussion. While i think HO appears to be largely for the student to do independently, we'll do it together with lots of discussions and I'll still take some dictation for my DS9.

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#3 Jen+4dc

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 11:42 AM

Thanks Catp-Uhura!

TeaTotaler was actually kind enough to send me her schedule, it made me think "Why reinvent the wheel, why not just to HO again?" Then, I remember how much my kids hate it, but it's just so much work to put something together from scratch. Plus, I'm not sure what writing to require....etc. etc. etc. Why is this decision so hard this year??

I'd still love to hear from anyone who has used Ancients and Middle Ages level 2, are they really the same or what's different?:bigear:

Thanks!

#4 Capt_Uhura

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 11:56 AM

That's how i know she's doing it...she was kind enough to email me her schedule although I won't be there for a year. I'll be doing the same for Ancients once this school year winds down. I've promised myself I'm doing all my planning this summer to make the school year run more smoothly.

#5 reet3

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 01:42 PM

I've been using Sonlight 3 and 4 and really like it but for a 7th grader I would like to add a little more meat to the curriculum. But I don't want to give up the many books that Sonlight places so carefully with the material to be learned. Today I started looking at History Odyssey and I like that they have some great books. And HO uses History Pockets which is what I've been doing these last two years and it seems to help solidify the information for the girls. Would you mind passing on the information that TeaTotaler sent?

BTW I don't know how or why that thumbs down got there. I guess thats why I'm Hive Mind Larvae:)

Edited by reet3, 22 April 2010 - 01:47 PM.


#6 rainforest mama

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 01:52 PM

This year we've been using level 2 Ancients. It's gotten done, but it's sooooo light on literature I feel like I've spent too much time adding to and tweaking (not a fan of Van Loon, either).

I had decided to just go history a la WTM next year. My plan had been SOTW 2 and AG with the youngers and having the olders sit in on that then do k12's Human Odyssey and KFH as their spine. Now, of course, I'm second guessing myself....:glare:.

I keep reading how much people loved HO Level 2 Middle Ages and how much it helped their kids writing. My kids could really use help there...but history used to be their favorite subject (we did SL core 3 and then core 4 the previous 2 years of hsing). This year HO Ancients has developed a "hate" of history for them. I know part of that is being expected to think and write, not just read (one of the reasons I did not continue with SL). But, I do NOT want to kill their love of history for good! I think it can be resurrected next year if I do it right, :tongue_smilie:I'm just not sure what right is. Dd13 and ds11 are in 8th and 6th so I don't feel like I can just lay back and let them do SOTW with the youngers and have history be "gravy."

Anyone use HO level 2 Ancients and then Middle Ages? Can you tell me if they are really that different? When I look at the extensive samples online all I see in Middle Ages is more of the same that they did in Ancients, just insert a different page # and date???? What am I missing?:bigear::bigear:

Thanks!


I could have written this. DD11 is doing HO Level 2 Ancients right now and it is like pulling teeth. She has always been a history lover, but this particular program is killing her love for it. I don't want to reinvent the wheel either, so I'd love to hear what others have to say as well.

Lana

#7 Jen+4dc

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 01:54 PM

reet3:
I can send you whatever you want from the following:

1) my schedule lining up HO level 2 Ancients with SOTW chapters

2) a list lining up SOTW chapters (all 4 volumes) with KFH and UILE

3) the list TeaTotaler sent me that lines up HO level 2 Middle Ages with k12's Human Odyssey

Just let me know which you'd like and pm me with your email address. I'm happy to share!:D

Lana,
I found this year that HO was too much outlining and not enough reading real books. I bought a used Core 6 IG thinking I would add in SL books then ended up adding in a lot of books but not using SL's IG. Next year I may try tweaking HO middle ages and adding in SL books (from the 2nd half of core 6) or just go history a la WTM with KFH, k12's Human Odyssey, and SOTW with my littles.

Still undecided:001_huh:.

I'm still hoping someone who has used Ancients and Middle Ages will chime in.......Anyone??

#8 KarenNC

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:02 PM

:bigear:

#9 swimmermom3

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:25 PM

I could be wrong, but I think Abbeyej is using HO Middle Ages 2. You could pm her and check.

#10 coffeegal

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:29 PM

Thanks Catp-Uhura!

I'd still love to hear from anyone who has used Ancients and Middle Ages level 2, are they really the same or what's different?:bigear:

Thanks!


My 5th grade dd is using Ancients, and my 6th grade son is using Middle Ages. IMHO, they are very similar, except that Middle Ages expects more of the children. The children are expected to move to a 3 level outline, write more papers (usually biographies), and the lessons are longer. What would be broken up into 2 lessons in Ancients, is completed in 1 lesson in the Middle Ages.

As a point of reference, my older sons tolerate HO. "It's school, Mom, what do you expect?" My dd, on the other hand, loves history now. "Mom, I want to be a history professor!" HO is working well for us, and my kids certainly don't hate it. ;) Since your kids hate it, my personal recommendation is not to stick with it. The difference between Ancients and Middle Ages is in difficulty, not approach.

HTH!

#11 Jen+4dc

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:37 PM

The difference between Ancients and Middle Ages is in difficulty, not approach.

HTH!


That is exactly what I needed to know!! Thanks! Now the question is can I let go and trust myself to go "a la WTM" next year without a premade schedule from someone besides me??? Um, gulp, :eek: I guess we'll see.

Thank you coffeegal!

#12 swimmermom3

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:57 PM

Jen, have you looked at the Suzanne Strauss Art history books that SWB recommends? They have questions at the end of each chapter and suggested projects. Just a thought...as if you don't have enough right now, eh?;)

#13 Capt_Uhura

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 03:40 PM

Must. not. read. Must. not. read. Must. not. read.

Ok, darn, I read it. I saw a post earlier about the Art books. My library does not have a single one. I think I"ll buy the Alexander book as both my boys love everything Alexander and go from there. I need another history book in this house like I need a hole in my head.

#14 rainforest mama

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 05:17 PM

Thank you Jen! That's exactly what is wrong. DD loves to read and this is so much outlining, map work, etc., but few books. The History Pockets were not a hit. I'll try throwing a few more books at her next year.

Lana

#15 Jen+4dc

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 07:41 PM

Must. not. read. Must. not. read. Must. not. read.

Ok, darn, I read it. I saw a post earlier about the Art books. My library does not have a single one. I think I"ll buy the Alexander book as both my boys love everything Alexander and go from there. I need another history book in this house like I need a hole in my head.

:lol::lol::lol:

Dh feels the same way......I have very few addictions, don't buy shoes, don't smoke, don't drink, don't even do caffeine, but books, well, books I'm addicted to!:D Problem is, if it weren't for the budget I wouldn't even want to recover!

I did use the Story of Ancient China book this last year and I really liked it. I hadn't thought about those....Luckily, I haven't really bought anything for next year yet so the budget is still there.....I'll have to see what titles she's put out. Thanks for the suggestion.

By the way, those of you who pm'd me about schedules, I'll get those emails out this weekend, those lists are all on the laptop which I don't have at the moment so look for them over the weekend!

Thanks everyone for your input. This board is amazing, isn't it!:)

#16 swimmermom3

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 07:51 PM

Must. not. read. Must. not. read. Must. not. read.

Ok, darn, I read it. I saw a post earlier about the Art books. My library does not have a single one. I think I"ll buy the Alexander book as both my boys love everything Alexander and go from there. I need another history book in this house like I need a hole in my head.


Oh come on! You know you want to. You want to. You want to!

Swimmer Dude is reading the Alexander book right now. It's 180 pages with minimal black and white art and he can't put it down. I don't want to mislead anyone about the books but from our perspective they are more thorough than a DK or Usbourne book and don't look read like sound bites with lots of pictures. There is enough heft to them that your child can take real notes and make real outlines. We came to an impasse one day when my son, who was outlining the DK Encyclopedia, said, "Tell me again why I am outlining an outline."

#17 Capt_Uhura

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 07:51 PM

This board is definitely amazing! I don't know what I would do w/out the wealth of information contained in the hive. I'm in an area w/out many HSers and the ones that are here are unschoolers. Luckily, my best friend started HSing after I took the plunge and we are very similar HSers. :001_smile:

#18 TeaTotaler

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 10:01 AM

Glad to help with the schedule.

HO Med Level 2 was helpful in providing a framework and increasing ds' written work but I tweaked stuff so much that I don't think I will be going on to Early Modern with HO.

BTW, I think Laura Corin has used the Strauss books if you want to ask her more about how those worked. They weren't available at our library and I just did not want to buy any more history resources. ;)

Take care.


This year we've been using level 2 Ancients. It's gotten done, but it's sooooo light on literature I feel like I've spent too much time adding to and tweaking (not a fan of Van Loon, either).

I had decided to just go history a la WTM next year. My plan had been SOTW 2 and AG with the youngers and having the olders sit in on that then do k12's Human Odyssey and KFH as their spine. Now, of course, I'm second guessing myself....:glare:.

I keep reading how much people loved HO Level 2 Middle Ages and how much it helped their kids writing. My kids could really use help there...but history used to be their favorite subject (we did SL core 3 and then core 4 the previous 2 years of hsing). This year HO Ancients has developed a "hate" of history for them. I know part of that is being expected to think and write, not just read (one of the reasons I did not continue with SL). But, I do NOT want to kill their love of history for good! I think it can be resurrected next year if I do it right, :tongue_smilie:I'm just not sure what right is. Dd13 and ds11 are in 8th and 6th so I don't feel like I can just lay back and let them do SOTW with the youngers and have history be "gravy."

Anyone use HO level 2 Ancients and then Middle Ages? Can you tell me if they are really that different? When I look at the extensive samples online all I see in Middle Ages is more of the same that they did in Ancients, just insert a different page # and date???? What am I missing?:bigear::bigear:

Thanks!



#19 Sue in St Pete

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 02:13 PM

I never knew that history might not be boring until we used and LOVED SOTW in 2nd-5th grades. I learned more in SOTW 1 than I did my entire school career. However, I didn't want to repeat it for logic stage.

We used HO 2 Ancients and Middle Ages. We found KHE b.o.r.i.n.g. plus it was way too writing intensive for ds. I didn't want to subject ds to boring history, so we abandoned HO.

This year, we are using History at our House, which is an online class. Since I learned more about history reading through SOTW 1 with ds, I do not feel confident in my ability to teach history. While there are pros/cons to HaoH, it is definitely NOT boring. In fact, I find it fascinating.

#20 Jen+4dc

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 10:51 AM

By the way, those of you who pm'd me about schedules, I'll get those emails out this weekend, those lists are all on the laptop which I don't have at the moment so look for them over the weekend!


I just got that email sent out! If you wanted it and I somehow missed you please pm me again. I'd be happy to send it again!

#21 MicheleinMN

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 11:00 AM

I had ds use HO MA Level 2 as a framework for his assignments, but we added a lot of books from Ambleside Online Years 2 and 7 to his reading list. I have the children read books ala CM style, a little from a book each week, not from the same book every day.

HO Level 2 has been good for him to outline, summarize, and do map work, but I agree that the literature list is way too short for my school.

HTH


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