consequences for poor grades/work

[Quiver0f10]

My 20 yo Ds and I were talking tonight about homeschooling and he said one of the issues he had with HSing is the lack of consequences for poor work or bad grades. If my kids do poorly on a lesson or test, we do it over. We work until we get it right. I see this as mastery but he said he sees it as not having consequences.

 

He said in college if he were to do poorly on a lesson or hand an assignment in late, he would receive a low grade and that keeps him motivated to do well. His point is that if a student knows they have a second or third try at something this might make them not try as hard the first time.

 

I am guilty of not sticking to deadlines such as on assigned papers. If something comes up I might give them an extra day or two and I can see how this habit could hinder them in college.

 

So, In a way I can see where he is coming from. What is there to keep a homeschooled student motivated to do their best all the time? Is working towards mastery doing more harm than good?

 

I feel like I am rambling but his comments have me thinking.

[momofkhm]

but doing it over again is a consequence. I know this is the high school board, but it's my 7th grader who has to redo things. For her the consequence comes not only from having to redo a chapter (in science) but also in doing science over the summer. She has to finish the book for me and dh to be happy with the amount she has done. If it was a 14 out of 16 chapters, that's one thing - she'd be done. But she will only be on chapter 10, so she will keep going and finish the book.

[Sharon in MD]

I'm now a "graduated" mom, my son is a freshman this year in college. While we did embrace mastery, there were consequences for failed tests or missed deadlines.

 

I will admit that there were a few times when I decided to move a deadline due to decisions that I made as the teacher or school administrator that impacted my son's opportunity to meet his deadlines....but I didn't make allowances for his personal decisions that made him fail to meet a deadline....if that makes sense?

 

Sometimes I allowed him to retake a test, but that new grade was averaged with the old grade, it didn't replace it. So, while there was a major incentive to master the material after a failed first attempt, it could not completely erase the first failure. Thus, there was a huge incentive not to repeat that scenario.

 

I had strict rules for any papers or projects or lab reports as well...a due date is a due date. Fail to meet the date, and you loose a letter grade for every day late.

 

It sounds harsh, but the reality is that is what they will face in college...the prof doesn't usually care that you had the stomach flu the day before the paper was due.

 

And, an anecdote, I had a bit of a mean reputation for not cutting my son, or other kids that I was teaching, any slack for being sick, unless it was really serious. It paid off this year, my poor kid's freshman experience. He was sick, in and out of the med center with a really bad abscess, swine flu, bronchitis and recurrent sinus infections....poor kid has been sick for at least 3/4 of his time away. But...he got his work done, turned it in on time and the only slack the school was willing to cut him was they extended the deadline for one lab, because he had a doctors note to stay home till his fever was gone.

 

I'm glad I was "Mean"

 

Think of it as tough love...

 

Just my two cent's worth

[Susan C.]

I'll ramble with you...I feel your pain. We are the moms, so we can decide when there are deadlines, right..... I have a 10th grader, and have tried hard this year to keep deadlines. (Because my oldest is living at home and going to college, and it is all right before me all of the things I could have done better with, he is doing well, but maybe we could have done better with organization, or is that hopeless with males?) I've done pretty good, the idea is planted with dd that there is such a thing as a deadline! It has simplified things to say the test will be on this day at this time. The first time, it wasn't taken seriously, but I gave the test anyway (there were a ridiculous amount of warnings, so it wasn't a surprise). She got a bad grade, but didn't do it again. She had to do well with the rest to average it out!! Papers, well, ..... once we get a writing program we like and there is input, I'll get going with being better about enforcing deadines with papers!! haha

 

It does seem to work if there is a lot of procrastination to withhold a wanted activity until such and such is finished, wow, all of a sudden, all of the energy, all of the ideas that come, and the paper/assignment/even cleaning the pet's cage is quickly completed!! I don't do this often because the opportunity literally comes every day to do this, and that would be too much. I save it for desperate times (the room where the pet is stinks, the paper was due three weeks ago, things like that :) )

 

Ok, its late, and I'm tired, and it is the end of the school year, and I am over it, and of course I am trying to pick curriculum too.

 

Oh the fun!!

[Wildiris]

Sharon in MD, excellent response to a very prickly dilemma. I am kind of like QuiverOf10, I am easy going to the point of feeling like I am getting taken advantage of by the kids. Consequences are real in everyday life, but sometimes my home school kids feel they're above everyday consequences. My recent round with child #3 in 7th grade convinces me that your path of "mean" mom is better for the kids and ultimately better for me. I think to establish consequences mom/teacher needs to have all her plans put together and not be flying too much by the seat of her pants.

[elegantlion]

I will admit that there were a few times when I decided to move a deadline due to decisions that I made as the teacher or school administrator that impacted my son's opportunity to meet his deadlines....but I didn't make allowances for his personal decisions that made him fail to meet a deadline....if that makes sense?

 

Sometimes I allowed him to retake a test, but that new grade was averaged with the old grade, it didn't replace it. So, while there was a major incentive to master the material after a failed first attempt, it could not completely erase the first failure. Thus, there was a huge incentive not to repeat that scenario.

 

I had strict rules for any papers or projects or lab reports as well...a due date is a due date. Fail to meet the date, and you loose a letter grade for every day late.

 

It sounds harsh, but the reality is that is what they will face in college...the prof doesn't usually care that you had the stomach flu the day before the paper was due.

 

I'm glad I was "Mean"

 

Think of it as tough love...

 

Just my two cent's worth

 

Thank you, I needed to hear that today. I tend to be too flexible, time to adjust our sails. Great question, Jean.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I disagree with ds. The consequence is spending YOUR dear time to redo something AGAIN because you didn't do it right the first time. It's not punishment, maybe; but it's logical discipline.

 

I think we need to be careful of desensitizing kids to the real world consequences. Now the argument could be that in college they don't have to waste their time redoing work, they get the lower grade. However, I still think we have to think bigger. What is the consequence when he's an adult? If the filing is done halfway, he'll spend his time searching for things. If he put off calling 5 companies, he'll spend hours doing it Friday instead of planning a date. Same with what is being done at home, with his future wife, with his children. Though there will be BIG consequences overhead (turn in poor work, don't get the promotion), there will also be LOTS of little ones. If he doesn't do the dishes after supper, he's going to have to spend more time because now there is a dried on mess. But there isn't a punishment for an adult not doing the dishes directly after supper (or as he cooks).

 

Of course, there are options to combine the thoughts: One thing MANY teachers/homeschoolers do is that they still have to DO the work til it's completed correctly, but that they get the grade they earned originally (or it can be raised only to a 70 OR they only get half points for corrections). That may be something one may want to consider.

 

And another option would be to have a FINAL deadline. The kid can decide whether he wants to take that grade or turn it in a few times ahead of time. This too is like real life in that if I had a project done, I most certainly would run it past someone (a few people) before turning it in. I do that with my papers for college. Classmates, bouncing thoughts off the professor, coming to the WTM forums, whatever can help. But once it's due, it's due.

 

A lot depends on the people involved also. My kids are VERY motivated by THEIR time. They are also motivated by progress. This worked against us a few times, but mostly it's worked for us.

 

ETA one more thought: Obviously your ds was not harmed by your way vs college's way. Just because it's different doesn't make one method wrong. He's adjusted to it just fine :)

 

ETA just one more thing: I use a college based on competency, not grades. You have to keep trying til you pass every test or paper. Everyone has a B+ average because NO paper or test is passing til it's B+ work according to them. You can't slide with a C or D.

Edited April 22, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[Faithr]

I think also it depend on the college professor! Some are easier on the students than others. Some come down hard and lower it a grade, but I remember college and some professors being softies. If you went and sobbed about needing an extension, you'd get one!

 

I think high schoolers are too old to be punished in the area of grades anyway. They are emerging adults and they need to be treated as such. So natural consequences is the way to go I think. You are their mother not their college professor, so you do things differently. Also, I think it puts a false, institutionalized twist on home schooling to act like a college that has arbritrary deadlines. I just couldn't do it, it seems too phony. And it sounds like your son adjusted to college deadlines. The problem is what motivates him, not your teaching style. I don't see any need for "preparation."

[TravelingChris]

I have my kids redo the questions they get wrong so they only get half credit maximum extra. SO if they get an 80 on a test, the maximum they can get is 90. If they get a 75, the max they will get is an 88.

[Quiver0f10]

Thank you all for the replies. My son is doing very well at school and has excellent grades, but he has always been super motivated and self disciplined.

 

Sounds like most if not all of you do redo the work but don't adjust the grade. I think I will use this method instead of erasing the old grade. I do agree that I have been too slack with deadlines and am going to get stricter with this too.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

And this specific problem is the one reason I want my son in long distance classes! So that I don't have to deal with missed deadlines, and bad notes. I'm so glad we have so many long distance classes available to us!

[Mom22ns]

Our philosophy so far has been that we correct all daily work for mastery. The grade they get on a test sticks. We still go over tests to make sure they understand any mistakes, but I won't change the grade.

 

As far as deadlines, my kids are still young enough that we break down large projects into small pieces. I'm pretty tough on deadlines, but I do sometimes realize that I've been unrealistic in my estimates of how much time they will spend on something and then revised the schedule.

 

As far as consequences, I think for some kids having to redo work is a huge consequence (I have one of those). For others, (my perfectionist), getting a bad grade is the end of the world and makes far more impact. I think that is why I combine doing both. Redoing missed work is just part of learning. Getting the grade you earn on a test is another type of learning ;)

[Tammyla]

I understand where you heart:grouphug: is and your ds's view from the other side. I'm mastery motivated until the end of middle school, but once the official transcript kicks in...

 

I'm a dreaded :smash: with deadlines, retakes and you get what got.

 

 

 

The Teaching Company's Super Star Students, truly helped my dd organize, plan and retool her approach to tests, deadlines, note-taking and her work in general.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Tammyla

[lllll]

...

[Sharon in MD]

I really had a tough patch with our ds when he was a freshman in high school and went through a period of majorly doubting that we would be able to home school through high school. We were fighting all the time about what was to be done and how. In our case, my husband and I decided to lay down the law and get tough. Our son has always responded well to rules so we realized that we needed to establish more firm and CLEAR rules for homeschooling.

 

We actually drew up a contract for the rest of that year, with Dad acting in the role of principal, and we threatened him, seriously, with comply or get on the bus. We made it clear that we wanted to homeschool, but that we had to work together for that to continue. We put him on probation. Truth be told, I knew he wouldn't get on the bus...his very close neighbor friend was in the local public high school and our son was terrified of going there, he knew he would be miserable there, especially since the neighbor kid kept begging us to take him on for school (unfortunately not legal here).

 

But, what we learned from it was that he needed clearly set expectations, clear deadline, syllabi with schedules and so on. It certainly formalized things more for us, but he thrived.

 

I've asked him twice now if there is anything he wishes we had done differently and he knows I'm asking him because I'm still part of the extended homeschool community locally and here and I get asked for (and offer unasked for:tongue_smilie:) advice. He thinks he was well prepared...his only regret....that he didn't ask the cute blond at church out when he was a sophomore. (I don't share that regret!):lol:

[Kareni]

...his only regret....that he didn't ask the cute blond at church out when he was a sophomore.

 

If that was his only regret, Sharon, then I think you did a great job!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Quiver0f10]

his only regret....that he didn't ask the cute blond at church out when he was a sophomore. (I don't share that regret!):lol:

 

 

:lol:

[tex-mex]

I'm now a "graduated" mom, my son is a freshman this year in college. While we did embrace mastery, there were consequences for failed tests or missed deadlines.

 

I will admit that there were a few times when I decided to move a deadline due to decisions that I made as the teacher or school administrator that impacted my son's opportunity to meet his deadlines....but I didn't make allowances for his personal decisions that made him fail to meet a deadline....if that makes sense?

 

Sometimes I allowed him to retake a test, but that new grade was averaged with the old grade, it didn't replace it. So, while there was a major incentive to master the material after a failed first attempt, it could not completely erase the first failure. Thus, there was a huge incentive not to repeat that scenario.

 

I had strict rules for any papers or projects or lab reports as well...a due date is a due date. Fail to meet the date, and you loose a letter grade for every day late.

 

It sounds harsh, but the reality is that is what they will face in college...the prof doesn't usually care that you had the stomach flu the day before the paper was due.

 

And, an anecdote, I had a bit of a mean reputation for not cutting my son, or other kids that I was teaching, any slack for being sick, unless it was really serious. It paid off this year, my poor kid's freshman experience. He was sick, in and out of the med center with a really bad abscess, swine flu, bronchitis and recurrent sinus infections....poor kid has been sick for at least 3/4 of his time away. But...he got his work done, turned it in on time and the only slack the school was willing to cut him was they extended the deadline for one lab, because he had a doctors note to stay home till his fever was gone.

 

I'm glad I was "Mean"

 

Think of it as tough love...

 

Just my two cent's worth

:iagree: