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Henle vs. Wheelock


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I believe that Wheelock's is considered college level and Henle is considered high school level. I have also heard that Henle includes lots of readings (i.e. translations) about war as part of Roman history. Wheelock's (which I haven't used personally but my dd has) takes its translations from Roman writings such as proverbs, speeches, etc.

 

I know there are more differences but this is what comes to me off the top of my head.

 

My dd takes Wheelock's Latin from Lukeion.org. She has done well on the NLE both years she took it - 36/40 last year and 39/40 this year.

 

Memoria Press offers online Henle classes.

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Both of these programs have a lot going for them and if you can get a good teacher you'll do fine with either.

 

I prefer Henle because:

1. It is designed for high school students on the old pattern of teaching students formal Latin grammar, thus teaching them a lot more than just Latin.

2. Wheelock was designed for Post WWII college students who didn't have time for formal grammar instruction and wanted to "get on with it."

3. Henle's seems to demand more discipline of the student and focuses on the skill of learning to think and read Latin.

 

However, the differences are not big enough, in my view, to lose sleep over them. It's like the difference between swimming in a pond or swimming in a pool on a hot day. Take a look at both and then choose the one that appeals more to you.

 

I hope that has some value.

 

ajk

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Well, I rarely disagree with Andrew, but I ended up choosing Wheelock's over Henle because of the supplemental material available for Wheelock's Latin. I don't have a Latin background though, so I went with the program that had more teacher helps. With Wheelock's I not only have the text and answer key, but also the Mother of Divine Grace syllabus (which includes tests, quizzes, & answers), audio CDs, workbook and answer key, Lecture CD from Dr. Dale Grote (as well as his Comprehensive Guide), and iPod flashcards. I also use 38 Latin Stories with Wheelock's to supplement our Latin reading and to practice reading Latin aloud. Finally, there are also many websites that support Wheelock's as well as the Latinstudy group found here: http://www.quasillum.com/study/latinstudy.php.

 

HTH!

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Well, I rarely disagree with Andrew, but I ended up choosing Wheelock's over Henle because of the supplemental material available for Wheelock's Latin. I don't have a Latin background though, so I went with the program that had more teacher helps. With Wheelock's I not only have the text and answer key, but also the Mother of Divine Grace syllabus (which includes tests, quizzes, & answers), audio CDs, workbook and answer key, Lecture CD from Dr. Dale Grote (as well as his Comprehensive Guide), and iPod flashcards. I also use 38 Latin Stories with Wheelock's to supplement our Latin reading and to practice reading Latin aloud. Finally, there are also many websites that support Wheelock's as well as the Latinstudy group found here: http://www.quasillum.com/study/latinstudy.php.

 

HTH!

Thanks! This is so helpful. I wasn't aware that al this was available.

 

Danielle

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My daughter is taking Henle online with Regina Coeli Academy. They also offer Wheelock classes. Both tracks lead to AP Latin, which they offer as well. It looks like after Henle II and Wheelock II, the kids merge into a Latin Literature course. We went with the Henle class because my daughter is in 7th grade and I was under the impression that tackling Wheelock at that age would be difficult. I didn't want to potentially put her in a course that would have been too much for her. My goal was for her to feel successful in an online course and so I thought Henle was our best best. I believe on the RCA website there is placement info on Latin that is helpful to read. As for our online class, we've been very happy with it. We'll be sticking with RCA for Latin (and probably more). ETA: We prepped for the NLE by closely reviewing the syllabus for the exam she was going to take. The exam is not based on any one text, so we did not rely on just her Latin course. There is mythology on it, Roman history, geography, etc. We added in a workshop from Lukeion--Meet the Romans to help with prep for the NLE. She is also taking Classical Mythology with Lukeion this Spring so she knew all the gods and goddesses well because they had done that in the first week of class. And then, Rod and Staff math prepared her with the Roman Numerals. IMO, you just need to closely look at the syllabus and take practice tests to prepare. My daughter got a perfect paper on the NLE.

Edited by Violet
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Both of these programs have a lot going for them and if you can get a good teacher you'll do fine with either.

 

I agree. Both curricula promote excellence in Latin. My daughter has principally used Henle from a young age and has excelled on the NLE (39/40 on Latin I and Latin II.) I don't subscribe to the notion that Wheelock's is the "end all" for Latin studies. As for it being college level as opposed to HS level, my daughter perused my copy of Wheelock after completing Henle's first book and discovered nothing she had not already learned beside some unfamiliar vocabulary. Latin grammar is Latin grammar, and vocabulary is developed as you read the language. Henle certainly has a controlled vocabulary compared to Wheelock, though. I personally don't view that as a negative inasmuch as the focus in classical language studies should be grammar-centric. Anyone (IMO) who can master their paradigms can develop facility with vocabulary. The latter is markedly easier.

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The two local colleges near us that teach Latin have ditched Wheelock. One is now using Ecce Romani, the other Latin for a New Millennium (is that the exact title?).

 

My own experience with Wheelock is that it worked real well for about the first half. In the second half, I got bogged down because it just didn't explain enough for the self-learner. The latinstudy groups were a help, but I still couldn't understand why things were translated one way and not another. If I'd had a live teacher, it might have made a difference.

 

My kids liked Cambridge Latin better. There was more reading practice. There are also lots of resources to go with Cambridge. They have a nice website with activities that are helpful too. It used to be free. It's now 10 dollars per year for individuals. The local high schools around here use Cambridge and the kids I've talked to seem to like it. The books don't drill the grammar to death, but there are lots of tables so you could drill yourself if you thought that was necessary. (Or use Wheelock to teach the Latin and something like Cambridge to reinforce it with reading. Although the 38 Latin stories to go with Wheelock was very helpful, it just wasn't enough reading for me.)

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These posts are pointing out what seem to me very important points that I want to add my support to.

 

When you study a classical language, the crucial (and difficult) thing is to learn the paradigms. It demands attention, will, and time.

 

I regard the vocabulary as of minimal importance in the first year, though I admit that kids gain more immediate pleasure when they learn more vocabulary. As I don't worry much about that when I teach (I believe that learning is always a pleasure, so I treat it as a matter of fact and don't emphasize it), I prefer to emphasize the formal element of the study because it makes a much better longer term investment.

 

Let me clarify: In Latin, the vocabulary is extensive and slippery, extensive because there are so many words, slippery because those so many words have so many forms.

 

The form of Latin is also somewhat slippery because of the word forms. However, the way you bring stability to an unstable situation is by settling down those factors that can most easily be settled down first. In Latin that means the forms, paradigms, endings, or whatever you want to call them.

 

If a student concentrates his energies on the forms, he will easily be able to learn new vocabulary. If, on the other hand, he is learning a lot of vocabulary, his intellectual energy will be used up trying to remember word meanings and he will have less energy to direct to figuring out which ending to use where.

 

Therefore, the controlled vocabulary of Henle is crucial to directing your student's attention and intellectual energies in the right direction. Those who like puzzles and see patterns will get a kick out of it. Everybody will benefit from it - if your goal is to learn Latin.

 

I think that may explain why Wheelock get's harder for students after the first half, though I stand by my earlier suggestion that with a good teacher your student won't suffer for having used Wheelock. I think very highly of it.

 

Latin can only be learned with attentive patience. That's one of the main reasons I think it needs to be studied. Consequently, the last thing I would want for my students is a way of learning Latin that eliminates the need for patience and attentiveness (thereby negating the possibility that he could ever learn Latin).

 

Semper Virtus

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Anglophone market-wise, I would recommend Wheelock's to nearly anyone (upper middle school students and on); even though I'm not very familiar with Henle, I suppose that if you "speed it up" a little (the pace they suggest seems to me ridiculously slow, I cannot fathom spending 5+ years on morphology and syntax and only then getting to "the real thing") it can work out just as well.

 

While I dislike "certain courses" for ideological reasons (because I cannot and again cannot be convinced that the study Latin should be approached the way they attempt to approach it, even if it's theoretically possible - "despise" is a strong word but perhaps the closest to how I feel about the so-called "natural/direct method"), I think that Latin can be learned well using virtually any materials that cover all the content - that is, morphology and syntax.

 

The stage of learning morphology and easy syntax (as well as laying down the foundations of culture, periodization of literature, working on practice texts and excerpts as you're mastering grammar one chunk at the time) should take approximately 2-3 years (and it can be crammed in double as less time if needed to cram it, but just like I don't suggest dragging it over more than 3 years, I don't suggest cramming it either). After that, you need about half a year to a year of a formal study of syntax (along with texts, naturally; for complex syntax in nearly 100% of the cases Cicero is studied; the usual sequence is Caesar by the end of previous stage and Cicero in "complex syntax stage") and then basic metric schemes (hexameter + pentameter, this is usually done on Virgil and Ovid as exemplary texts).

 

ANY textbook that will cover morphology and syntax analytically will, theoretically, get you there.

 

I don't think learning paradigms is the hardest part, btw - if you think morphology is hard (it's actually all about a bit of memorization and a bit of "getting" how certain functions are expressed, and then about "calculating" a little when you're applying all that), wait till you get to the wonders of syntax and figure out why is Latin, essentially, syntactically problematic way more than morphologically (unlike Greek, which tends to be exactly the opposite in that aspect). Not talking specifically to Andrew, I assume he knows Latin anyway :D, just speaking in general here - people do tend to make too much fuss out of simple morphology.

 

In my opinion, you can't go wrong with either of the two with regards to your goal, my personal vote is for Wheelock's, but nothing will essentially change if you use Henle. Just speed it it, seriously - the division of content by years on Memoria Press website is ridiculous.

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Oh no now we have other Latin texts tossed in.. How wll I ever choose? You lades all bring up very good points. Thankfully the dc need to finish up LCII, giving me time to decide what to do next and where to end up.

 

Danielle

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While I dislike "certain courses" for ideological reasons (because I cannot and again cannot be convinced that the study Latin should be approached the way they attempt to approach it, even if it's theoretically possible - "despise" is a strong word but perhaps the closest to how I feel about the so-called "natural/direct method"), I think that Latin can be learned well using virtually any materials that cover all the content - that is, morphology and syntax.

 

Ester Maria -- Just curious about if you have an opinion on Galore Park's Latin Prep? :bigear:

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My seventh-grader is using Wheelock's. Lukeion, the online Latin school we use, takes two years to get through the text, and she is now finishing her first year. She has done well, making As on every quiz and getting a gold medal on the NLE.

 

I think college students generally go through Wheelock's in one year. And doesn't Veritas Press have a one-week Wheelock's cram session each summer? That doesn't mean the text is easy; it just means the people who go through it that fast are looking for pain.

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My seventh-grader is using Wheelock's. Lukeion, the online Latin school we use, takes two years to get through the text, and she is now finishing her first year. She has done well, making As on every quiz and getting a gold medal on the NLE.

 

Great. Ds will be in 7th when it is time to begin one of these texts. Of coarse I want to delve in first and try to keep ahead (hence he timing of this post)

 

I have actually been looking into Lukeion, so I am glad to hear what you had to say.

 

Danielle

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Ester Maria,

 

Thanks for some very helpful input. I don't know Latin anywhere near as well as I want to, but my hunger keeps eating away at me!

 

The Memoria sequence for Henle is, I believe, for younger students. If I were to teach it in high school, I would give each of the four books one year, probably ending the first year at unit 8 and proceeding straight to level II.

 

I love your stuff on the differences and paces for morphology and syntax.

 

The great thing, for the discussion starter, is that you really can use any decent, disciplined approach to Latin and come out of it pleased.

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The Memoria sequence for Henle is, I believe, for younger students. If I were to teach it in high school, I would give each of the four books one year, probably ending the first year at unit 8 and proceeding straight to level II.

 

That is my understanding also. My oldest (then 9) completed the first book in one year. I will spend two years on Henle's first book with my eight year-olds.

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