MFW or Sonlight for High School

[ilovemy4kids]

Okay, just getting some opinions here for high school would you say:

 

Sonlight 100, then 200, then 300 then 400 all would have the sonlight writing assignments graded by writeathome OR writeathome comp 1, 2, 3, and 4

 

 

OR

 

MFW all 4 years of high school with the writing graded by write at home.

 

He will also do Apologia Biology, Chemistry, Physics, then something else

 

He is beginning Rosetta Stoine Portuguese level 2 in the fall

We are part way through Analytical Grammar

we'll do something for the rest of electives etc.... not sure about them all yet. Just trying to decide between MFW and Sonlight right now! I am a terrible writing instructor just for the record. He has done writeathome 6th, 7th and if finishing 8th grade composition now.

 

So, any advice? I will also be teaching my 7th dd and I'm deciding what to do for her as well.

 

Currently we are doing sonlight core 5 and we really enjoy it, but the high school cores are so different. I'm worried there wont be enough pen and paper stuff as far as history is concerned.

 

Thanks so much for your advice and opinions.

Blessings

Sandra

sonlight writing

[pjssully]

Just my opinioin-- i lok at sonlight and even ordered the whole package. After i looked through the IG and the books, i decided there was too much "just reading" and the written questions really weren't challenging. I also found their book selection not as rigirous as what i wanted. There are SOMe rigourous books but over all, i felt alot of filler/fluff with some of the readers "required" I thought about pulling some readers but then what do i fill it with? Overall , i liked the book selection with MFW better--i had preordered some of the books to look at and to getan idea of what was included--and the "IG" or teaceher's book is really written nicely and very easily to understand. Less work for me and a bit more responsiblility for my daughter--the plans are written especially fo rthe child. I also have struggled with writing but the writing in MFW goes step by step and has very easy explaintions.

 

Maybe you will get some info from those taht are using it.!

pam

[Tenaj]

I used Sonlight 100 for my ds's freshman year and we use MFW World History currently. I agree with Pam about the questions in the Sonlight guide at that time (they may have changed, and I haven't used all the levels). The readers were disappointing as so many of them were far below high school level - fun reading - but not exactly the challenging curriculum I had in mind.

 

We've been very happy with MFW and my dd will be using the new Year 3 when it is released. I have to depart from the MFW sequence with my ds next year because he's already done the American history component so he will be doing Notgrass Economics and Government along with IEW American Literature for his Sr. Year.

 

Along with Pam - the MFW daily guide is written straight to the student - that's important to me because I have many littles that need my supervision. My kids have learned a lot from the writing assignments - the research paper was a bit rough to start the year with but we made it through that assignment. The literature has been challenging but not out-of-reach and the writing assignments complement everything so well. The Bible component has been great. We really have no complaints and my kids have been insistent that we stick with MFW for the next year.

[ilovemy4kids]

I really appreciate all of the information. I was able to sit down tonight and look at the Sonlight IG and the MFW lesson plans and lit supplement side by side tonight. I much prefer the books in Sonlight, lots of great stories to read, however, I think that MFW provides more structure and accountability for the student. The IG in sonlight was harder for me to figure out what was due when, as far as writing. Week 5 has them write a paper on amos fortune, when they are just starting the book. So, logistically, I think you would need to always stay a week "behind", so to speak, on the writing portion. There appears to be more writing in sonlight, but less step by step guidance to do so. The MFW appears to connct the Bible with the history in a much deeper way. So, we are leaning to MFW at this point, but I would love to hear some more opinions.

Blessings

Sandra

[Brindee]

I am not much help, I haven't even received the MFW things yet. I just wanted to say that we just chose MFW for the reasons you mentioned. I've found many of the books for cheaper at Amazon, or from people on this site. Now I just need a few more and we'll be set.

 

I feel that both my dd and I need the structure and step-by-step guidance for writing, and I like how it's written to the student to start their path to more independent learning! I'll still be there daily, but the "more independent structure" is exactly what my dd needs right now. We BOTH want the Bible integrated like it is, she likes the deeper Bible study, and she likes the idea of how it says the parents, ESPECIALLY THE FATHER, should go through the one book and have a discussion with the child! I think that will help keep the close bonds with dad! She and I are both looking forward to receiving the materials and going through these classes next year!

[Donna A.]

Sandra, here's a link to two posts I wrote describing our first four weeks with MFW AHL, as well as details on the grammar/lit/writing component. I wrote this at the end of Week 4, but my dd's on Week 8 now. We continue to be just as pleased as we were four weeks ago. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162788

[ilovemy4kids]

We ended up going with the MFW high school and are loving it. Definately the right decision for our son.

 

Not sure if DD will use SL or MFW when she gets to high school but most likely it will be the MFW simply for it's ease of use, the fact that it is written directly to the student and it is so easy for me to pick up and know exactly where the child is working.

 

Sandra

[mom31257]

I am using SL Core 100 with my 8th grade dd right now. It is our first experience with SL, but honestly, I am surprised it is considered a high school level course. Almost all the books have been very easy reads for my dd. I was so excited to have discussion guides with each book (there are over 30 novels for the year) because I knew I would not have time to read each one, but I found the questions are mostly recall.

 

I will not continue with SL for high school, but am strongly considering MFW for high school.

[cbollin]

We ended up going with the MFW high school and are loving it. Definately the right decision for our son.

 

Not sure if DD will use SL or MFW when she gets to high school but most likely it will be the MFW simply for it's ease of use, the fact that it is written directly to the student and it is so easy for me to pick up and know exactly where the child is working.

 

Sandra

 

how is it going with grading the writing? (you mentioned that originally)

 

I did not find I needed an outside person to grade papers given the rubrics in AHL.

 

glad it is working out. my oldest likes it too.

 

-crystal

[MerryAtHope]

Thanks for the update, I enjoyed this conversation! I'm still deciding for next year. SL is redoing the guides now, but I don't know that it will be enough that we'll do it. MFW really appeals to me too! Decisions decisions...

 

Merry :-)

[4wildberrys]

Well, my dd has used SL for her high school, and I will agree with what has been said about the IG being hard to navigate. Although, my description would include words like 'disaster', 'brain numbingly hard to figure out' and 'disorganized' except for the magnificent reading schedule! We have continued on with SL for dd because MFW's last 2 years weren't ready----but if they were I would have gladly switched. SL includes wonderful books, but little to no interaction with MOST of them. Some books have a plethora of simple comprehension questions, but no real digging into ANY literary terms let alone any deeper meaning in any books. The writing assignments sound good, but with NO guidance or steps to follow---I guess one would need a nice English degree to guide your student. DD is using Core 400 this year----and for the first time I have removed 2 books (Tools of Dominion and Basic American Government) because they are ridiculously hard books not only to read----but to get any basic understanding from! Yes, SL is 'revamping' their IG's for high school, but I am still skeptical that they will be nothing more than the current IG reorganized. Even though dd has read lots and lots of books in her 4 years of high school----and even though I have used SL that claims 'all the planning has been done for me' and that my student will understand literature and its deeper meanings etc.----I have had to purchase additional items to actually get that literary analysis and I have spent LOTS of time planning and trying to figure out just how to get the IG to work (which it hasn't, so we just use the reading schedule!). :glare:

 

My son, on the other hand, is using MFW AHL this year. Wow! what a difference. Reading good books, analyzing the books and connecting dots! Since I have all the SL programs, I am adding select books and history books where they fit with MFW----but like has been said previously, MFW is written to the student and includes steps to follow and direct and clear insctructions when needed----without using a MASSIVE binder chock full of so much information that it's impossible to actually find what you need in a reasonable fashion. My son will continue on with MFW because it's just so much more succinct and the planning truly is done for us.

 

By the way---even though SL now markets Core 100 as a high school core, in previous catalogs it was always an 8th grade program.

[Mom0012]

Well, my dd has used SL for her high school, and I will agree with what has been said about the IG being hard to navigate. Although, my description would include words like 'disaster', 'brain numbingly hard to figure out' and 'disorganized' except for the magnificent reading schedule! We have continued on with SL for dd because MFW's last 2 years weren't ready----but if they were I would have gladly switched. SL includes wonderful books, but little to no interaction with MOST of them. Some books have a plethora of simple comprehension questions, but no real digging into ANY literary terms let alone any deeper meaning in any books. The writing assignments sound good, but with NO guidance or steps to follow---I guess one would need a nice English degree to guide your student. DD is using Core 400 this year----and for the first time I have removed 2 books (Tools of Dominion and Basic American Government) because they are ridiculously hard books not only to read----but to get any basic understanding from! Yes, SL is 'revamping' their IG's for high school, but I am still skeptical that they will be nothing more than the current IG reorganized. Even though dd has read lots and lots of books in her 4 years of high school----and even though I have used SL that claims 'all the planning has been done for me' and that my student will understand literature and its deeper meanings etc.----I have had to purchase additional items to actually get that literary analysis and I have spent LOTS of time planning and trying to figure out just how to get the IG to work (which it hasn't, so we just use the reading schedule!). :glare:

 

My son, on the other hand, is using MFW AHL this year. Wow! what a difference. Reading good books, analyzing the books and connecting dots! Since I have all the SL programs, I am adding select books and history books where they fit with MFW----but like has been said previously, MFW is written to the student and includes steps to follow and direct and clear insctructions when needed----without using a MASSIVE binder chock full of so much information that it's impossible to actually find what you need in a reasonable fashion. My son will continue on with MFW because it's just so much more succinct and the planning truly is done for us.

 

By the way---even though SL now markets Core 100 as a high school core, in previous catalogs it was always an 8th grade program.

 

Thanks for posting this review. We are currently using our 6th SL core and we will continue with SL through elementary and middle school because we love it. However, I have had my eye on MFW for high school and it's great to hear the positive comments from someone who has used both programs.

 

Lisa

[Brindee]

I guess I'll check in again here too. I've been raving about MFW AHL since we started! It's filled the bill PERFECTLY for dd! I couldn't ask for anything better for her! The first paper was scary, and at first she thought she couldn't do it. Once that was over, and she did a great job, it gave her more confidence for the rest of whatever would be assigned to her! We love how it pulls everything together to make a cohesive study. DD says it makes more sense that way and she understands it all better! She's one that likes digging deep to understand things, and applying it to her life, and MFW helps her do that. She told me she DEFINITELY wants to do MFW WHL for 10th next year!

 

I couldn't imagine being any more pleased with currilculum than I am with this one!

[AngieW in Texas]

I loved Sonlight for grades K-8. I didn't care much for Core 100. It's fine for 8th grade, but I sure wouldn't call it high school level. I hated Core 300.

 

I like Oak Meadow for high school history and English (although I do add more books). I haven't been very happy with their middle school level. I still have OM6 listed for my youngest for history and English, but I dumped it over Christmas break. We are back to SOTW2 for history and I'm having my dd write a weekly paper (history-related) and do spelling for English.

[ilovemy4kids]

Cyrstal.... The grading is going okay for the writing. Some papers we graded ourselves, others we used writeathome.com's grading service.

 

I'm so glad we chose to use MFW for high school.

 

Still trying to figure out what to do with Emily for 8th grade. I'm considering just forgetting about official history and just letting her read whatever she wants and doing some Progeny Press lit study guides. Or we may just read through a BJU american republic textbook. Or we may use a beautiful feet composers study.

 

Anyway, glad to hear that others have been happy with MFW also.

 

Sandra

[ilovemy4kids]

how is it going with grading the writing? (you mentioned that originally)

 

I did not find I needed an outside person to grade papers given the rubrics in AHL.

 

glad it is working out. my oldest likes it too.

 

-crystal

 

 

Well the writing we are grading some ourselves and using writeathome.com's grading services for others. The longer harder ones, I tend to have graded by others.

 

We are moving slowly due to some personal issues and crisis in the family. He's on week 15 right now and will continue through the summer except for scout camp and the creation conference. He'll finish up on August 19th, have a 2 week break then jump in to World History! Poor kid. Oh well, at least he's learning.

 

I have not been as diligent as I should be at discussions, but my hubby has done well with the bible discussions.

[jewell]

For what it is worth, my two teens who have experienced various curriculum (sheepish grin) have threatened me should I change from MFW for them. I love it too.

[CarolynMR]

Would love to hear of others experiences as I am needing to use a different curriculum for my rising 11th grader.  (I used SL for my oldest 2: DS 2013 AF Academy grad., DS junior in college Civ Engineering major on scholarship.  I used a 3 years of TOG with SL reading followed by 1 yr. of SL for DD who is a senor.)  I have found the lack of writing instruction as well as the lack of guidance in grading the content of the writing assignments very frustrating.

 

My 4th child (DD) is a slow reader, so SL and TOG are both challenging due to the amount of reading.  I am wondering if MFW would be a better fit.  THOUGHTS?!

 

Also, could I do the 1st half of 11th followed by the 2nd half of 12th in order to get a full year of US History 11th grade?  Then in 12th I would do the 2nd half of 11th (government) and the 1st half of 12th (economics).  Thoughts and experience?

[mom@shiloh]

:bigear: Listening in.

[cbollin]

Would love to hear of others experiences as I am needing to use a different curriculum for my rising 11th grader.  (I used SL for my oldest 2: DS 2013 AF Academy grad., DS junior in college Civ Engineering major on scholarship.  I used a 3 years of TOG with SL reading followed by 1 yr. of SL for DD who is a senor.)  I have found the lack of writing instruction as well as the lack of guidance in grading the content of the writing assignments very frustrating.

 

My 4th child (DD) is a slow reader, so SL and TOG are both challenging due to the amount of reading.  I am wondering if MFW would be a better fit.  THOUGHTS?!

 

Also, could I do the 1st half of 11th followed by the 2nd half of 12th in order to get a full year of US History 11th grade?  Then in 12th I would do the 2nd half of 11th (government) and the 1st half of 12th (economics).  Thoughts and experience?

 

since it's a new question on older thread....   I'm not sure MFW will give you what you want for grading of writing assignments.  in AHL and WHL, there are guidelines of what to look for objectively, but the subjective part is still up to you.  then in US1 there is some helps/hints for the student in writing when you read th appendix of the Am. Lit Supplement.  but in terms of "how does my kid's writing sample compare to a range of low/middle/high expectations".. that's not given.  for that, I compared her writing to her own (did she improve from last paper, did she make the changes we suggested in editorial session...)  and then used samples on internet of good essays with ACT and pulled up expectations from schools.   It's all subjective really.

 

To help my slower reader, we use audio books and I still read out loud with her as needed to keep her on pace. She keeps a book in front of her.

 

The way you're thinking of mixing and matching US1 and US2 to get the history, sounds like a harder thing to do with MFW.  The US history in US1 year is not only contained in first semester.   You start history, then when it gets to the time in history when the US is formed and a US gov't is needed, then you study gov't (about week 11-25 or close enough to those weeks), then you finish the first half of US history.   That's a good time to take the CLEP Us History to 1877 after a few weeks of study in the CLEP study guide they offer.    So you could plunk out the gov't weeks, and mix and match the history from end of year and then do the rest... but oh, that sounds complicated.  But I have some ideas:

 

What my friend's son did:   I have a friend whose son was in the pilot program for MFW high school.  But there was a problem.  When he was in 12th grade, he was piloting US1.  so he needed the history credit for college entry, and needed gov't, but not Econ.  So...  the son basically started US1 as written, did gov't and then started the second half of the BJU text as a separate course.  So, he did the whole year of credit in 12th grade, but did US1 in order.  He treated the second part of US history text like an elective course and it worked for him.  He got full ride scholarships at engineering university and works full time in his field (had offer before college graduation).  So, he's a smart academic type.

 

What my oldest did:  she did US1 in 11th.  Then, we got our Econ from 12th grade done in summer.  Then she did the other part of US history in fall of 12th grade.  It was on her transcript as In Progress.  The colleges did not care!!!  They were fine with it.  She was admited and got great scholarships.  So it didn't matter that it "had" to be 1 credit in one grade level.   and we didn't do the CLEP right after 11th grade (we should have!!!)  but I think that could be good as well.

 

upshot... it didn't matter to the colleges she applied to. even our cover school didn't have a fit on it.

[mom@shiloh]

Another question:  I am considering MFW for high school.  I'll have a 9th and 10th grader next year (and 8 others in various stages).  We've done lots of world history and we're ready to begin US history. My thoughts were to begin MFW with year 3, but I read a few people saying NOT to begin MFW in the 3rd year, that the program builds on itself and it would be difficult to jump into the middle.  What do you think? 

[cbollin]

Another question:  I am considering MFW for high school.  I'll have a 9th and 10th grader next year (and 8 others in various stages).  We've done lots of world history and we're ready to begin US history. My thoughts were to begin MFW with year 3, but I read a few people saying NOT to begin MFW in the 3rd year, that the program builds on itself and it would be difficult to jump into the middle.  What do you think? 

 

If it were me deciding for me: I would not start in year 3 with 10th and 9th grader.   I know mileage will vary and all of that.  If your 9th grader already has a lot of high school level reading time and is writing well enough that you think they are in high school... and you dont' have to help.......  maybe it could work.  But I just think content wise with the worldview course it goes better if they are a just a tiny bit age older in life to really participate.  Academically, that won't be hard, but in terms of it having meaning...

the history text is 11th grade level with studying and all of that.

 

I'm glad I didn't do US1 when my oldest was in 9th. and she's my academic nerd type.  She did mfw's CTG in 8th and then in 9th did AHL.   She seemed to come away thinking at the time it was nice because it was gentle review in history, but more in depth in Bible, and then she could work more on trying to develop her essays.

[CarolynMR]

cbollin--Thank you for your informative reply.  I think that I will use US I then II as designed;~). 

 

Do the guides have a list of content points that a good essay would have--for history and literature?  I am not as concerned about style and grammar guidance as I am about being sure that the child's essay actually contains the historical facts, etc. to answer the essay question.  (TOG history test answer key has points that a good essay would contain.)

[Erin]

My 4th child (DD) is a slow reader, so SL and TOG are both challenging due to the amount of reading.  I am wondering if MFW would be a better fit.  THOUGHTS?!

You can always pull books out if it suits your needs.  ...That's true of any course you use.  

I can't speak to MFW, but personally, for my struggling reader using Sonlight, we have a done a lot of audibles, either via Librovox, purchased at Audible, or rented from the library via Overdrive.   He used to hate reading.  He still hates reading, but he's figured out that he really likes good books.  And honestly, because he's "read" enough of them now, he's gotten to where he has developed his reading tastes.   Most kids do this long before 8th grade, but that's the mark of a struggling reader; not knowing what books they like because they're ALL so hard.

 

 

 

All of that said, and as happy as we've been with SL, we're moving in to TOG for high school.  I want deeper conversations in literature than what I find in SL in the high school years...  For the most part, the book selections themselves are fine, but I don't have time to develop literature guides for everything we read, and SL doesn't really do lit. guides so much as accountability questions.  KWIM?

 

[cbollin]

cbollin--Thank you for your informative reply.  I think that I will use US I then II as designed;~). 

 

Do the guides have a list of content points that a good essay would have--for history and literature?  I am not as concerned about style and grammar guidance as I am about being sure that the child's essay actually contains the historical facts, etc. to answer the essay question.  (TOG history test answer key has points that a good essay would contain.)

 

for the paragraph "essay" questions on the bju history tests, there is an answer key like that, so it was easy to check.

and some of the lessons in the "stobaugh" based Am. Lit Guide has answer key at the back for some of the things so I could spot check for accuracy.  and then, if I wasn't sure, I asked oldest to show me where she got info.

progeny press guides -- those have answer key.

 

ok.. yeah.. there are answer key/guides in that sense.