TOG vs. MFW for high school

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I like both of these for high school. Could someone compare/contrast them: cost, time, and *fun* aspects?

 

Honestly, I am quite concerned about the time TOG might take. (I've never used either curriculua.) Yet, I love the aspect of one curriculum for everyone. I have three kids 12, 10, and 6 years old now. We will do ancients next year which would be a good time to try TOG. I am just most concerned about picking/choosing what to do every week and the TIME it would take. Even though I keep looking at it, this is the thing that makes me shy away.

 

If I'm going to try it, it seems like now is the best time since we're starting at year 1: ancients.

 

With highschool in mind, which of these is both easier to do and the most interesting for kids? (Not to mention easiest for mom, considering teaching multiple grades along with house cleaning, meal prep, and all the unplanned surprises that life throws.)

 

Thanks!

[Sue G in PA]

I have been comparing/contrasting the very same programs. I received an email response from a WTM member to one of my inquiries about TOG and it was not a glowing report. I was always a bit leery of the cost and it seems that TOG is quite costly...more so than MFW. The benefit, of course, is that you can teach multiple ages with ONE curriculum. I have received great reviews from people who have used MFW for high school. The curriculum is written for the student to use independently with a "conference" at the end of each week for Mom to check in with the student, grade papers, etc. Week one it is suggested that Mom works alongside the student to get the "feel" for the curriculum. I don't have any personal experience with either, so take this all with a grain of salt. However, I have used other MFW programs and love them for the most part. That being said, I have decided to use MFW AHL for high school next year for my dd13 and MFW CtG for my ds9 and ds7. Both study ancients so we will all be doing the same period. You could also use MOH for your 10 and 6yo's if you don't want a whole program. I thought about that as well since I do have a science. Have to figure out our budget!

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Thank you, Sue! Your response does not surprise me. I hear so much good about MFW.

 

Anyone else?

 

 

I have been comparing/contrasting the very same programs. I received an email response from a WTM member to one of my inquiries about TOG and it was not a glowing report. I was always a bit leery of the cost and it seems that TOG is quite costly...more so than MFW. The benefit, of course, is that you can teach multiple ages with ONE curriculum. I have received great reviews from people who have used MFW for high school. The curriculum is written for the student to use independently with a "conference" at the end of each week for Mom to check in with the student, grade papers, etc. Week one it is suggested that Mom works alongside the student to get the "feel" for the curriculum. I don't have any personal experience with either, so take this all with a grain of salt. However, I have used other MFW programs and love them for the most part. That being said, I have decided to use MFW AHL for high school next year for my dd13 and MFW CtG for my ds9 and ds7. Both study ancients so we will all be doing the same period. You could also use MOH for your 10 and 6yo's if you don't want a whole program. I thought about that as well since I do have a science. Have to figure out our budget!

[Donna A.]

We're doing MFW AHL and CTG right now. My dd is really enjoying AHL. She does it almost completely independently, but there's plenty of opportunity for me to check in with her and vice versa. She's doing a great job.

 

It takes her up to 3 hours a day to complete History, Bible and Lit/Composition, and sometimes less. Sometimes she has a little homework if she's working on a paper, but that's it. The program is very streamlined. It's also more meaty than Notgrass by itself, which is what we started with, but then I quickly bought the rest of the MFW package when we realized Notgrass was going to be too light. Plus MFW gives us the great schedule which pulls together all the resources, and is laid out so nicely for her to go right down the grid and do her work.

 

I've got a more detailed review of the first 4 weeks around here somewhere.... although she's on Week 7 now.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

This is awesome, Donna. I know so many people love TOG, but you've just got to love the pick-up-and-go of MFW. Of course, that's not to say it is without challenge or preparation. It just sounds easier to actually DO. I appreciate your response!

 

 

We're doing MFW AHL and CTG right now. My dd is really enjoying AHL. She does it almost completely independently, but there's plenty of opportunity for me to check in with her and vice versa. She's doing a great job.

 

It takes her up to 3 hours a day to complete History, Bible and Lit/Composition, and sometimes less. Sometimes she has a little homework if she's working on a paper, but that's it. The program is very streamlined. It's also more meaty than Notgrass by itself, which is what we started with, but then I quickly bought the rest of the MFW package when we realized Notgrass was going to be too light. Plus MFW gives us the great schedule which pulls together all the resources, and is laid out so nicely for her to go right down the grid and do her work.

 

I've got a more detailed review of the first 4 weeks around here somewhere.... although she's on Week 7 now.

[M&M]

Have you printed out one of the TOG free trials? Your question is difficult to answer because it depends on what you are looking for in a program. There are so many discussions about this on this board. You really have to decide what will work for you. I have used both programs (not highschool level) and I prefer TOG others don't.

 

I like not being tied to specific books or a specific schedule. I love learning along with and ahead of my children. I love that TOG has taught my older children how to plan their work and work their plan. I love that I will purchase 4 TOG year plans and I will be done curriculum purchasing for all the many TOG subjects for all of my children. I do not want to do two or three packages for History etc. for all the learning levels in my home. You can spend a ton of money on TOG if you want, I don't. When I don't have a book, I go to the library, internet, I find something to replace it. I will always fill my home with great books so I have no problem choosing what I like and letting SOTW and Streams of Civ or Kingfisher History fill in the gaps. I like flexibility, I didn't like some of the books we used in EX-1850 and my children ...well it just didn't work for us.

 

I feel I get more for my money with TOG, because it fills a need in MY homeschool. I like having more than I need so that I am never searching to add to it for the children in my home that need more challenge, yet I can feel free to cut what we don't need. What are the needs in your homeschool? What do YOU need as a teacher to teach the many learning levels in your home? What constitues fun in your home? Which tool will work for you?

 

There are enough TOG and MFW users on this board to debate this until day's end. Print out samples of both and try them on for size, you will only get a taste of them but it might be enough to help you decide.

[HappyCrazyMama]

I researched MFW a for a couple of weeks recently during my semi-annual should I sell everything and switch curriculum phase.;) The reason I decided against switching to MFW is because they say I should not combine my HS students. The HS series is meant to be used in order.(I am sure I could likely use it however I want with tweaking.) So in the future I would have two different HS programs going and then the program for the younger ones and I thought that is why I don't do SL and why I do TOG. :tongue_smilie: For my current HS students I just tell them what to read and discuss it once a week so I don't see much different there. I read TOG's teacher notes sometimes but would like to do it more. Honestly there are a lot of things about MFW that appeal to me and if HS students could be combined easily (meaning it was written and meant to be used that way) I could easily see myself switching but like I said I don't want to be using 3 TGs at any point.

 

eta - I do really like TOG but I get a grass is greener itch sometimes and need to just stop reading about other curriculum and remember if something is not broken it doesn't need to be fixed.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Happyhomemama

[Donna A.]

I do not want to do two or three packages for History etc. for all the learning levels in my home.

 

That's the beauty of MFW high school. Because the student is working mostly independently, Mom is only teaching one parent-led program with the elementary-aged children. :) Then Mom has her 1-on-1 time with the high schooler as needed, but Mom isn't "doing" two or three different packages for history.

 

When I don't have a book, I go to the library, internet, I find something to replace it. I will always fill my home with great books so I have no problem choosing what I like and letting SOTW and Streams of Civ or Kingfisher History fill in the gaps.

Ditto MFW. All the books that come in the package are scheduled, as they are the core resources and literature that make up the 3 full credits in History, Bible, and English. But my dd does much more reading on her own than just what's in the package.

 

I didn't like some of the books we used in EX-1850 and my children ...well it just didn't work for us.

There are a lot of differences between MFW high school and MFW elementary. The main similarity is the way lesson plans are laid out in a weekly grid with teacher's (or in the case of h.s., student's) notes following. In fact, it's because of those differences that some people who love MFW elementary won't use it in h.s., and vice versa.

 

I feel I get more for my money with TOG, because it fills a need in MY homeschool.

And that's as it should be! :thumbup1:

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Monique and Deanna,

 

I am thankful you responded in behalf of TOG.

 

I think I am the queen of the greener grass philosophy..... I look at TOG about every 6 months or so. I WANT to like it!:001_smile: I love the way it is organized. The colorful layout appeals to me. I love that everyone studies the same thing. Maybe even the expense can be kept reasonable.

 

What about the time it takes to prepare for lessons? My concern comes from using Konos years and years ago. I think unit studies are wonderful, but with Konos, I had to pick and choose (much like TOG) and I quickly learned that I needed a plan. Konos didn't go well for us because I did not manage it well. From then on, I've been careful to purchase curriculum that was more open-and-go and that had lesson plans.

 

TOG has a plan, but I would still pick and choose. The time factor (teacher-intensiveness) is what I most fear even though I want to love it.

[Donna A.]

The HS series is meant to be used in order.

 

The reason for this is because of the skills taught in AHL, particular where lit study and writing, and introduction to rhetoric level thinking and processing are concerned. The depth of the level of learning increases each year, so....

 

(I am sure I could likely use it however I want with tweaking.)

So why don't you? ;) Really, you're the mom and I'm sure you could adapt the program to your family's needs. If you were interested in the program and truly felt you could use it with tweaking, then maybe you should've gone ahead with it?

 

Honestly there are a lot of things about MFW that appeal to me and if HS students could be combined easily (meaning it was written and meant to be used that way) I could easily see myself switching but like I said I don't want to be using 3 TGs at any point.

Well, just to clarify (for anyone reading)... YOU wouldn't be using 3 TMs. :tongue_smilie: Your high schoolers would each have their own. There isn't a "teacher's manual", per se, in the h.s. programs because the students are working directly out of the lesson plan manual that is written TO them (as well as the Lit Supplement). There ARE notes to the parent/teacher at both the beginning of the manual to explain to you how to get your students going in the program, what kinds of things to look out for, how to do the grading/assign credits, and then there's a Bible reading schedule for the parent to participate in the Bible reading if they want to. But once you get through the first week of acclimating to the material, the layout of the land, and walk your student(s) through the first Argumentative Essay, Mom is pretty hands-off unless someone just needs help with something. (Plus the scheduled 1-on-1 weekly meetings, of course.) You work this part out however you need to depending on the student/your family, but my point is that MOM is only directing one TM in the family (in elementary).

 

So if you have two high schoolers doing the same program, in AHL for example, you'd just buy two each of the Daily Lesson Plans, the OT Challenge guide, the Lit/Composition Supplement, and the Daniel study guide, as those materials are consumable. With the literature titles, you decide whether they'll share the reading of those books, or whether each student needs their own. But a good chunk of the package can easily be shared between students, so you definitely only need to buy one "complete" package.

 

But as you said, if TOG is working for you and it isn't broken.... :001_smile:

[HappyCrazyMama]

So why don't you? ;) Really, you're the mom and I'm sure you could adapt the program to your family's needs. If you were interested in the program and truly felt you could use it with tweaking, then maybe you should've gone ahead with it?

What I meant was I am sure it is possible. I personally don't want to do it. ;)

 

Well, just to clarify (for anyone reading)... YOU wouldn't be using 3 TMs. :tongue_smilie: Your high schoolers would each have their own.

OK but there would still be three different programs going on under my roof.:tongue_smilie:

 

But as you said, if TOG is working for you and it isn't broken.... :001_smile:

:D

[M&M]

That's the beauty of MFW high school. Because the student is working mostly independently, Mom is only teaching one parent-led program with the elementary-aged children. :) Then Mom has her 1-on-1 time with the high schooler as needed, but Mom isn't "doing" two or three different packages for history.

 

Yes, but with TOG I have one teacher's manual, one set of notes one schedule to look at. TOG is also independent for the highschooler and even the D level. That was not my point, with MFW I would have to have 4 manuals for my 5 children that was the "doing" I was referring to! Even an independent program needs a facilitator.

 

Ditto MFW. All the books that come in the package are scheduled, as they are the core resources and literature that make up the 3 full credits in History, Bible, and English. But my dd does much more reading on her own than just what's in the package.

 

There are a lot of differences between MFW high school and MFW elementary. The main similarity is the way lesson plans are laid out in a weekly grid with teacher's (or in the case of h.s., student's) notes following. In fact, it's because of those differences that some people who love MFW elementary won't use it in h.s., and vice versa.

 

Doesn't sound that much different from how we use TOG for D and R levels. I am tired of this debate and usually don't post my opinions about MFW for this reason. IMHO, and this is only my opinion is that MFW is more challenging to do with mulitple levels. I don't do Sonlight for the same reason. I think Sonlight is great, but my children are spaced in a way that makes doing it challenging and takes more time than I have.

 

 

And that's as it should be! :thumbup1:

 

My point was really that both are great programs, and the OP needs to look at what tool is best for her. My opinion (or yours) can only help to a point and then she has to decide what works for her. Which is why I suggested printing up samples of BOTH programs. Nothing is perfect, no curriculum works for everyone.

[Donna A.]

My point was really that both are great programs, and the OP needs to look at what tool is best for her. My opinion (or yours) can only help to a point and then she has to decide what works for her. Which is why I suggested printing up samples of BOTH programs. Nothing is perfect, no curriculum works for everyone.

 

Totally agree with this! I just thought your other post sounded like YOU were debating, but the discussion hadn't felt like a "debate" to me up to that point. :001_unsure:

 

And I did want to clarify a few points on the MFW side for others who are reading, since we're actually using the program here. I thought that was fair. :001_smile: Notice I didn't say anything about TOG. I haven't used that program.

[M&M]

I am totally a pick it up and go gal! I am also a don't tell me what I have to do each day kind of gal! Life is too unpredictable here for me to try to keep to a daily schedule.

 

Most of my time is spent learning, I am learning what my children are learning, so that when I sit down once a week to talk to my kiddos...I have a CLUE what they are learning. I spend an hour of quiet time reading my notes and picking what I think will be the most important threads to focus on. I pick out the books we will use and I make a pile for each child. On Monday, I give each child their books, any maps, student pages, notes, and any other info they need for the week. (I prepare ahead of time, one unit at a time, choose books and print out what I need). They plan their week, they decide how to get the work done, all I have to do is sit down with them and discuss. Since I have (ideally) already read my notes, I am ready to follow the discussion outline and help them make connections. If I am not prepared, the notes help me to be able to have a very good discussion (Mom is just not as talkative...maybe that's better LOL!).

 

That gives me time to teach my younger children, to read aloud, to do what I did with the older ones. For me it is the best of all things. My older children have learned how to be accountable for their learning, to plan the week and get it done. My younger children have face to face time with MOM!

 

Check out these discussions on TOG and how people use it

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1438948#poststop

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146740

 

The cost is up to you. I have just purchased all my R and D level books(used in excellent condition) from a board member and it was not more than other programs. I will use SOTW mostly for my younger children, although I am tempted to purchase her LG and UG books as well ...soo many books so little time!

[M&M]

Yes, I understand. No, my intention was to have the OP look at her needs not problems others have had with one program or the other. Sorry if it didn't come off that way! I have had to stop and start a few times between posts to care for the little ones here.

 

I have not used the HS program and it was beneficial to know that about MFW. I love learning about new curriculum.

[Brindee]

I only have one left homeschooling :( I just am recently learning about MFW and it looks GREAT for me, with only one! I like it to be organized and laid out, because I get overwhelmed doing all the research and pulling everything together into a nice program. :001_huh: Wish I had that ability! :tongue_smilie: Soooo, I'm leaning pretty far over to the MFW side! DD and I will still pick and choose which things work for us, and add things to it as we see fit. We just mark off the days of set programs as we do them, and it makes it sooo much easier to follow--to know what we've done and to do what still needs to be done!

 

I'm finalizing about cost and dd's wishes on what she wants to do, but I appreciate threads like this that discuss these things! Thankyou everyone for your comments!