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Help! My plans have switched from Saxon K to Miquon in one day.

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#1 hiveHolly

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 11:36 PM

:willy_nilly: I'm lost. My head hurts. I was all set to order Saxon K for ds today, but after reading more posts here (my new favorite hobby), I'm thinking about Miquon. From what I gather, these curricula are on opposite ends of the spectrum? So yes, my head is spinning. If I tell you what I know about me and my ds will you point me in the right direction?

My ds will be five at the end of August. He'll begin K with Classical Conversations about that time. He's begun working through 100 EL. (He's on lesson 18). He's wiggly and protests when I say it's time for his reading lesson, but if I have to deal with the baby in the middle of a lesson, he'll sound out words to himself while he waits for me to return. He was in a Montessori preschool when he was 3. He refuses to do something when he's afraid he'll do it wrong.

I am new to homeschooling. I have learned that even though I am a laid back Type B minus personality, I do well with a scripted, short lesson everyday approach like 100EL. So for math, I can't follow the suggestions to just play lots of board games because I'll treat them as optional and I'll rarely make time for them. I'd like to begin math when the weather turns brutal here (late June) so we have something to do when we're hiding from mosquitos and heat stroke and so that our daily math and reading lessons are routine when it's time to begin CC.

Can you help us?

#2 StephanieZ

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 11:58 PM

Miquon can be done loosely structured very well. It is child-led but not totally loosey goosey.

The teachers books are very helpful in helping you get a feel for the program, so you won't feel at loose ends. If you watch the For Sale boards, complete sets of teachers books come up for sale pretty regularly. (Or you could post a Want to Buy). They resell easily, so if you change course, you can resell them.

Try it. You'll like it. You can always go with something more structured later if you wish.

#3 4blessingmom

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 12:13 AM

Miquon.

And, I encourage you to keep it very much PLAY for a long while. Let him play with the C rods while you care for baby and read the teacher's materials. Don't let on that the C rods are intended for math until you have to.;) Encourage him to build trains and houses and towers.

Read lots of "living" math books. Richard Scarry's Counting Book is fantastic if you can get your hands on a copy!

#4 hiveHolly

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 03:23 PM

Looks like Miquon is suggested for first graders. Should I begin when he is older?

I really like the suggestions in posts here and in WTM to teach math literacy through play and daily living, but I have utterly failed with that approach. I crave a program that tells me that if we complete X activity on X days this week ds's little mind will have been sufficiently exposed and stretched in such a way that he will be ready to study math when the time comes.

#5 ~Phoenix

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 03:48 PM

I vote to go with Saxon K. I normally do not recommend it for a 5 year old, but if you have looked at the topics covered and feel they are appropriate for your son, that's what I would choose.

I crave a program that tells me that if we complete X activity on X days this week ds's little mind will have been sufficiently exposed and stretched in such a way that he will be ready to study math when the time comes.

Miquon is not a "year program" that tells you when you are "done", at least that's not how I've found it to be.

I really like the suggestions in posts here and in WTM to teach math literacy through play and daily living, but I have utterly failed with that approach.


Saxon K is all about "playing" with math, yet it provides structure for the instructor. (Note: make sure you buy the manipulative kit!!!)

He refuses to do something when he's afraid he'll do it wrong.

Be advised that with Miquon, there's not always a "right" answer.

I do well with a scripted, short lesson everyday

There are no lesson plans with Miquon.

I can't follow the suggestions to just play lots of board games because I'll treat them as optional and I'll rarely make time for them.


This is how we treat Miquon in our home. It is extra and optional.

Looks like Miquon is suggested for first graders. Should I begin when he is older?

My son has had no problem with starting Miquon at 4. It was, however, a supplement, not our main math. We follow Saxon K and then move into Singapore/Miquon after. I did this with my son and plan to do it with my daughter. Although I'm not a Saxon fan, I thoroughly enjoyed Saxon K - no writing, felt "free" to the child, but scripted for the mother/newbie.

#6 Spy Car

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 04:02 PM

Looks like Miquon is suggested for first graders. Should I begin when he is older?

I really like the suggestions in posts here and in WTM to teach math literacy through play and daily living, but I have utterly failed with that approach. I crave a program that tells me that if we complete X activity on X days this week ds's little mind will have been sufficiently exposed and stretched in such a way that he will be ready to study math when the time comes.


The best thing I ever did was starting my son with Miquon in pre-K (although Kindergarten would be fine).

The use of Cuisenaire Rods makes the introduction to mathematics "concrete" (they can show themselves a 3 Rod and a 2 Rod are the same as a 5 Rod) which is the most developmentally appropriate way to learn math starting out.

The "First Grade" association came at a time (and at a school) where math instruction was delayed until First Grade. Some people still do this, but Miquon Orange (the starting book) is what most people would consider kindergarten level by today's standards.

At whatever age Miquon is started, it's my opinion that it be used as an "introduction" (along with Cuisenaire Rod work suggested in the Teacher's materials) so the child has the means to problem solve and make make math "discoveries" on their own. This is the strong suit of Miquon.

And should you move to something like Singapore, all the skills built in Miquon transfer right across beautifully.

Bill

#7 K&Rs Mom

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 04:13 PM

Looks like Miquon is suggested for first graders. Should I begin when he is older?

I really like the suggestions in posts here and in WTM to teach math literacy through play and daily living, but I have utterly failed with that approach. I crave a program that tells me that if we complete X activity on X days this week ds's little mind will have been sufficiently exposed and stretched in such a way that he will be ready to study math when the time comes.


Book 1 starts with counting, so totally fine for a 5yo. We start in K with one page every other day (not really the "Miquon way" but works for us), then work up to one page every day. My older is almost done with book 4, and WAY ahead of what is considered "grade level" around here (a fairly bad ps district). It seems like you're not doing much, only takes 10 minutes a day, but it eases them into new concepts so well that it doesn't take a lot of drill. Leave the rods out to play with, too - he'll pick up things on his own even without you scheduling games.

#8 Matryoshka

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 05:17 PM

I really like the suggestions in posts here and in WTM to teach math literacy through play and daily living, but I have utterly failed with that approach. I crave a program that tells me that if we complete X activity on X days this week ds's little mind will have been sufficiently exposed and stretched in such a way that he will be ready to study math when the time comes.


Have you thought about Right Start? It tells you which games to play on which days, it's scripted, and very hands-on and manipulative based, especially at the lower levels.

I loved the idea of Miquon, but you do have to wade through those huge tomes (Lab Annotations and First Grade Diary) to really get it. Or at least I needed to, and I never managed it. There are exactly zero instructions on the pages. It's very, very open-ended.

#9 Ellie

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 05:31 PM

Looks like Miquon is suggested for first graders. Should I begin when he is older?

Well, an alternative might be Mathematics Made Meaningful. It uses Cuisenaire rods to teach math concepts, and it just seems like playing. :-)

I really like the suggestions in posts here and in WTM to teach math literacy through play and daily living, but I have utterly failed with that approach. I crave a program that tells me that if we complete X activity on X days this week ds's little mind will have been sufficiently exposed and stretched in such a way that he will be ready to study math when the time comes.

Girlfriend, your dc are way too young to decide that you've failed with *any* approach.

Personally, Saxon's primary levels are way too busy for me. I can tolerate Miquon, and Mathematics Made Meaningful, but not Saxon.:tongue_smilie:

#10 Spy Car

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 06:41 PM

[QUOTE=hiveHolly;1602282He's wiggly and protests when I say it's time for his reading lesson, but if I have to deal with the baby in the middle of a lesson, he'll sound out words to himself while he waits for me to return. He was in a Montessori preschool when he was 3. He refuses to do something when he's afraid he'll do it wrong.[/QUOTE]

A "beauty part" of Miquon is they really can't get anything "wrong." If they estimate improperly (using rods) they will prove to themselves the error and can self-correct.

I am new to homeschooling. I have learned that even though I am a laid back Type B minus personality, I do well with a scripted, short lesson everyday approach like 100EL. [/QUOTE]

Miquon is not "scripted" per se. But each Lab Sheet (student page) has an explanation in the Lab Annotations (teachers book) of the objective. It is quite simple to implement in a B personality type way.

If you really want tightly a scripted teacher-led math program you could look to Right Start.

Bill

Bill

#11 Spy Car

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 06:44 PM

I loved the idea of Miquon, but you do have to wade through those huge tomes (Lab Annotations and First Grade Diary) to really get it. Or at least I needed to, and I never managed it. There are exactly zero instructions on the pages. It's very, very open-ended.


It is very important to read the Teachers materials when using Miquon. But for me this was a joy and I've found them to be some of the most inspiring teaching materials I've come across.

Bill

#12 Matryoshka

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 07:14 PM

It is very important to read the Teachers materials when using Miquon. But for me this was a joy and I've found them to be some of the most inspiring teaching materials I've come across.


Sure, sure, rub it in that I never got through those things... :p

But of course I had three kids in the space of 2 1/2 years, so about the time I needed to parse all that info I had two 4yos and a 1 1/2yo :willy_nilly: somehow I didn't have lots of quiet time for reading large teacher volumes...

#13 Aurelia

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 07:21 PM

I also recommend Right Start if you are interested in something like Miquon but more scripted. Level A is lovely for kindergarten.

#14 Amber in AUS

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 09:32 PM

My DS sounds a lot like your DS and i vote Miquon. My DS loves it!

#15 hiveHolly

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 11:24 PM

Wow. Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I've read so many of your posts in other threads and I really appreciate that you have taken the time to show another newbie the ropes.

I think I'm still leaning towards Miquon. There just doesn't seem to be any reason not to try it this summer. It won't have a script, but I think I'll get by with annotations and the diary.

#16 lovinmomma

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 12:17 AM

Well, an alternative might be Mathematics Made Meaningful. It uses Cuisenaire rods to teach math concepts, and it just seems like playing. :-)


Bill, what are your thoughts on MMM?

#17 Spy Car

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 12:27 AM

Bill, what are your thoughts on MMM?


Beyond having "heard of it," I'm not familiar with Mathematics Made Meaningful.

Sorry.

Bill

#18 lovinmomma

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 12:41 AM

Beyond having "heard of it," I'm not familiar with Mathematics Made Meaningful.

Sorry.

Bill


Awww... how sad. :D

#19 Spy Car

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 12:45 AM

Awww... how sad. :D


There just aren't enough hours in the day :D

Bill

#20 Spy Car

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 01:22 AM

Sure, sure, rub it in that I never got through those things... :p


Earlier this evening I was reading through a collection of Yiddish stories, and I ran into the following:

"An honest slap in the face is better than a false kiss." :D

Bill

#21 hiveHolly

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 10:45 AM

Orange book on backorder. Grrrr.

#22 Beth in SW WA

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 11:37 AM


Read lots of "living" math books. Richard Scarry's Counting Book is fantastic if you can get your hands on a copy!


This book? Thanks!

#23 Kuovonne

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 11:40 AM

It is very important to read the Teachers materials when using Miquon. But for me this was a joy and I've found them to be some of the most inspiring teaching materials I've come across.

Bill


I'm also enjoying Miquon with my daughter. However I've barely used the teacher's materials, even though I have all three. I didn't find the First Grade Diary or the Notes to Teachers to be useful. I only refer to the lab sheet annotations when introducing a new topic for the first time or when I can't figure out a page.

On the other hand, before starting Miquon, I did RightStart A and most of B with my daughter, and I read alot online about how to use the Cuisenaire Rods. Plus, I like math. So, you might find the teacher materials more useful than I do.

#24 Flaura

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 11:56 AM

I have Mathematics Made Meaningful and I plan to use it with ds4 this coming year. It is primarily a set of cards with an activity to do the the C-rods. The instructions emphasize the importance of having the child's first experience with the cuisenaire rods be that of independent exploration. After the child has had time to play and explore the rods without parent suggestions/explanations then you move to the cards. The daily plan is to have 10-15 minutes free play with the rods and then do the activity on one of the cards. The cards are broken down into series.

Series A has activities like sorting, make a rod staircase, rod trains, cardinal/ordinal number activities...

Series B includes things like number bonds (i.e. yellow= red + green), exploring addition, numerals, patterns

Series C explores the properties of sets ( equivalent, union, intersection )

Series D is about measurement and the properties of numbers (arithmetic)

Series E explores the fundamental properties of the numbers from one to ten.

Series F explores the properties of numbers much larger than 10 (products, factors, and multiples)

Series G explores ways to solve arithmetic problems.

Series H deals with fractions.

Series I has some work with place value,powers,non decimal bases.

Series J negatie numbers

Series K metric area, volume, mass

I am going to look into miquon but I have this on hand to use at the moment.

HTH,

#25 rawbanana

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 12:48 PM

We started out with Miquon and I really liked the first few books. I had the Lab Annotations book but almost never referred to it. I am HORRIBLE at math and felt after about the 3rd book, I wasnt able to 'teach' it anymore. And I felt like all of a sudden the book went into multiplication without teaching the child the facts. Maybe it assumed *I* would teach them the facts, but I needed a curriculum that laid EVERYthing out for me =)
We switched to Math U See and could NOT be happier. My child who would cry when we were going to do math, now LOVES it =)
BEst of luck!

#26 hiveHolly

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 06:29 PM

I'm nervous I won't be able to teach miquon, as well, but I got tired of my indecision and ordered all the teachers manuals, the rods, and the first two workbooks. Can't wait until it's all here so I can try it out. I'm sure I'll be right back here with a bunch of q's. Hopefully the toughest part will be keeping his sister from eating the rods.

#27 4blessingmom

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 07:15 PM

This book? Thanks!



I think that's it...my cover is a bit different, but that's the same author.

LOVE LOVE LOVE this book! My ds3 just found it and carries it around now.:001_smile: The way the objects are organized/colored/etc just leads naturally into talk about our base ten system, counting by 5's & 10's, multiplying & dividing...lots of meat to chew on, but cut up and served nicely for littles. It presents much more than counting!

#28 Spy Car

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 07:46 PM

Don't be entirely surprised if the feelings that you might not be able to teach this program magnify when the materials arrive. I semi-panicked when I got mine. It all makes sense, and is actually easy to teach, although how one does it successfully w/o reading the teacher's materials is beyond me. That one might negliglect the teacher's materials and not be able to teach? This is what I would expect.

Bill

#29 TracyR

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 08:00 PM

You could try to use Miquon. But if your the type that wants something scripted you won't get that with Miquon that's for sure. I did like the workbooks for something fun to do but could never wrap my brain around the program. The Lab Annotations were of no help to me whatsoever. Made the program seem more complex to me.

I am using Saxon K with my3.5 yr old right now and she is doing rather well with it. I like the fact that it doesn't require any writing and is very hands on at this level.
I think I might add the Miquon with her when she is a little older to do something different. But Miquon is one of those programs that just is so different that I didn't feel I could use it as a main math program. Though I'm sure plenty here do.
By the way I'm a type B personality myself. LOL.

Actually if you do both Saxon K and the Miquon workbooks it makes for a really enjoyable K math program. I think they complement each other well because they are both hands on.

Edited by TracyR, 11 May 2010 - 08:12 PM.



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