How do you deal with this trait?

[klmama]

My 11 yo ds is like two different children, depending on the subject he is learning. He is amazing when it comes to topics he loves - history, science, literature, technology. He remembers the littlest details, grasps the big picture of how they fit together and with other disciplines, and loves every moment. It's a joy to teach him these subjects. He's happy, animated, and participates fully in all discussions, sharing his insights easily.

 

Then, there are the subjects he finds tedious - math, grammar, and writing (compositions). Those are pure torture for both of us. He doesn't want to learn these subjects (unless he gets to do simple algebra problems, which he enjoys). He struggles to listen to an explanation from me. He daydreams. In math he argues about every detail if I try to explain how to do things differently than the way he figured out on his own, which works some of the time but not all of the time, despite his insistance that his way is always right. He refuses to work the problems on paper because the only interesting thing is doing it entirely in his head, so we have daily difficulties with my requirement that he write down what he did. He knows he needs to learn all about fractions, percentages, ratios, exponents, etc. in order to do "real" algebra, but getting there is killing us both. To top it all off, he gets anxious when given a reasonable time limit (you have x amount of time to work on this, then we are moving on and you'll do the rest as homework) and he makes many more mistakes then. Also, his stress level then affects my other dc and me.

 

He is a sweet boy who really hates that he gets difficult and anxious this way, but he can't seem to get around it. I don't know what to do to break this pattern or to make these subjects more interesting for him. Any ideas for this stressed mom?

[Leslie in MO]

Don't know if this helps much but I had and have the same sort of situation with my dd 12 yo. She has no interest in learning things that aren't interesting to her, but her potential to learn is so great. In the subjects that she likes, she can go well beyond grade level and retains info upon the first reading. She finds writing down rough drafts and outlines to be senseless because she already knows what she will be writing in her head. Also, writing math became such a struggle (many tears from her and me) that we changed to SOS math just because she can do that all on the computer. I don't know if she really is able to do a rough draft and outline mentally, or if she is just being lazy. When she does write it is very good. And, like your ds, she really doesn't listen to me sometimes when I explain. It is very frustrating! I try to remember that at least she is being honest, even though it borders on rudeness sometimes.

 

I hope some very wise Mom or Dad can shed some light on us.

 

Leslie in MO

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

it's hard to say from your post, but it could be a ' input/output' problem. Very often, history and sciences (in the elementary levels) are high on input, low on output. Math, grammar and writing are high on output, low on input. But it really depends on how it's taught, so it may not be the case for you.

 

When my son was young, I couldn't get him to do math on paper. So we used a blackboard or the drivway. The bigger movements needed to write with chalk helped him. Paper work was just awful.

 

As for math, it's perfectly fine for a child to come up with a technique that doesn't work all the time. In fact, the math program we use (in French) takes advantage of that. The approach is based on ' cognitive shock' . Instead of correcting the child on the exercise where the wrong approach worked, present a follow up problem where it won't work. If your child is like mine, he will just come up with yet another approach, so you have to ask the child to consolidate and find one approach that would cover both sets of problems. This approach does require that mom (or the math teacher) be quite good at math.

[Storm Bay]

Cleo's point is a good one. Another thought is that perhaps you might consider a different approach and/or curriculum with the tougher subjects.

 

Another question: is this new or old? If it's new it could be partly related to being 11 and changes starting to go on (the arguing part).

[klmama]

I so often wonder if I'm the only one with a child like this. It's good to know others have dealt with it, too!

 

It's interesting what you said, Cleo, about the input/output. When he was younger I think that was a huge issue, but now I think the real problem is just that he doesn't like to do things he doesn't like to do. He'll give all kinds of output if it's something he wants to write about (meaning it was his idea in the first place - you know, like writing a book about his favorite topic). I guess we need to just buckle down and work on the "no complaining or arguing" rule again - both of us!

 

Thanks, again, everyone! Any further ideas would be appreciated! :)

[Leslie in MO]

I so often wonder if I'm the only one with a child like this. It's good to know others have dealt with it, too!

 

It's interesting what you said, Cleo, about the input/output. When he was younger I think that was a huge issue, but now I think the real problem is just that he doesn't like to do things he doesn't like to do. He'll give all kinds of output if it's something he wants to write about (meaning it was his idea in the first place - you know, like writing a book about his favorite topic). I guess we need to just buckle down and work on the "no complaining or arguing" rule again - both of us!

 

Thanks, again, everyone! Any further ideas would be appreciated! :)

 

Dear kidlovingmama,

I have been trying to decide if my dd needs a different curriculum style to help her with the writing issue so I am curious about which one you use. We have tried ABeka and Writing Strands in the past, and currently are using Sonlight language. Sometimes she writes stories, using the computer, for the fun of it, and they are interesting stories, but she doesn't want to use those as school work and doesn't want anyone to correct the grammar of them. I am wondering if I should take a more casual approach to writing and focus on the quantity instead of the quality at her 6th grade level. Trying to grade her writing has always been a challenge since she seems to take any correction as an insult even though I have tried my best to convince her that correction is not criticism of her.

 

Leslie

[klmama]

Yes, that perfectionism is a huge part of the problem, isn't it! We talk about it a lot at non-conflict times, and it does seem to help. We still aren't where I'd like to be, though.

 

We haven't used a formal writing program consistently. We tried R&S and Abeka, but the tedium factor got to us both. Mostly, his writing is for history and science topics. He's actually more willing to write for history and science, so I focus on that with him. I figure, if he likes it, he'll do more of it. I try to focus on only correcting a little at a time. First draft, he can print and just get his ideas down, and I don't care about spelling or cursive. For the next draft, either later that day or the next day, I point out major points he still needs to cover and ask him to determine where they will fit into the essay. (You still need to answer these questions: ___? and ___? Where will you put the answers?) Once he has that done, and we are both pleased with the content, either later that day or the next day we look at spelling, mechanics, and sentence structure. His punctuation is usually right, and his sentence structure is pretty good, but if there is an awkward sentence I have him read the essay aloud so he will hear the problem and fix it. Spelling mistakes are the most frustrating for him, so I save them for last. I've found the best way to avoid causing frustration is not to mark anything on the page, but rather to work together sentence by sentence to make the corrections. (There are two words in this sentence that are spelled incorrectly. Can you find them?) Final copy is written in cursive with all corrections made.

 

I, too, wonder about focusing more on quantity. I have to wonder if the whole thing will become easier for him as he just writes more. I'm thinking about having him write in a journal daily, so he can write about whatever he wants in cursive for 10-15 minutes. No need for me to correct anything, no need to do anything more than just write. Maybe every week or so, I'll ask him to pick out something from his journal to write about more formally. Have you tried doing something like that? Is there anything else that you've found to work well?

[Leslie in MO]

A couple of years ago we did try the journal writing, even going shopping for a special notebook, and I told her that she could write about whatever she wanted to as long as she wrote, but it didn't work for us. At first she was excited about it, but then she would keep saying that she didn't have anything to write about. Recently we have made some changes to the home computer situation and I am thinking that she will be more interested about typing her assignments than she is in writing. On the computer she can make corrections without having to rewrite the whole thing and the perfectionism isn't such an issue because corrections can be made before anything is actually printed. Plus, it will be good for her to learn more about word processing. She seems to be less stressed with the Sonlight language assignments than she was with ABeka. I tried to go down the traditional handwriting and cursive path with my dd, but she could not do that and keep her joy for learning.

It sounds like you have a good system going with the writing. Your ds may do great with the daily journal.