Is the literature in Notgrass American History enough? more inside please...

[Libby in Texas]

I'd like to use Notgrass because I like the obvious History-Bible-Literature/Composition combination. However, I'm wondering if the literature part is just reading or will my dc actually be taught how to analyze literature (as if she were using Progeny Press, for instance)? Same concerns for the writing portion. If both the literature & composition are lacking, would it be overkill to bring in something alongside, like Smarr (for the composition benefit also)? TIA

 

Blessings,

Libby in Texas :)

 

~~~~~~~~~~~

Mama to 4 dc aged 17, 15, 14, and my wee one...10

[Grace is Sufficient]

It is generally agreed that the lit analysis is a weakness in Notgrass, and many of us have supplemented. Personally, I used a variety of sources, Progeny, Smarr, and others to add analysis to the more 'literary' of the selections.

 

Blessings

[Libby in Texas]

Thanks. From reading the other posts about Notgrass it seems the same problem exists with the writing portion. The student is not taught how to write, but instead just picks from a list of writing assignments, right? Could you please share what you did about the writing portion? Also, is your student doing both the literature from Notgrass and a separate program--like Smarr as you mentioned? Sorry just making sure I understand. TIA

 

Blessings,

Libby in Texas :)

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mama to 4 dc aged 17, 15, 14, and my wee one..10

[Lori D.]

...I'm wondering if the literature part is just reading or will my dc actually be taught how to analyze literature (as if she were using Progeny Press, for instance)? Same concerns for the writing portion.

 

Just reading. The Notgrass American History has no analzying, no teaching of literary elements/literary analysis, no composition instruction. Just a very general reading schedule, a few comprehension questions, and a few general writing assignement ideas.

 

 

This thread has not only my more detailed review, but great reviews from other users of Notgrass as well: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141809&highlight=Notgrass

 

 

 

 

If both the literature & composition are lacking, would it be overkill to bring in something alongside, like Smarr (for the composition benefit also)?

 

Not overkill -- on the contrary something additional is definitely needed. And yes, composition would benefit also be adding something else.

 

 

While it's expensive for just a history program, we're really loving the Notgrass history. We made our own American Lit to go with it, using some titles from Notgrass, but substituted and added others. We use Progeny Press guides, Sparknotes, The Great Books guides, Garlic Press Publishers' Discovering Literature series guides and others.

 

For learning how to write a literary analysis essay, I *highly* recommend IEW's Windows to the world, a 1-semester course (you can easily spread it over a year) which teaches annotation, a little literary analysis and then the great specific instructions for writing literary analysis essays. For other high school composition (writing) programs, you might consider:

- IEW

- Jump In (strongly Christian; informal tone, written to the student, helps student think of what to say and how to organize their ideas/writing/paragraphs -- it's designed for middle school, but very helpful for a struggling 9th gr. writer)

- Meaningful Composition (strongly Christian; more structured program, written to the teacher, the level 8+ looks like solid foundational writing program to launch into high school writing)

- Jensen's Format Writing (structured, formulaic, and rather dry, but it would certainly get the job done)

- Put That in Writing I (very formal tone, very structured; focus is on the paragraph; we really didn't care for this program and only read/absorbed the pages with the information on the different types of writing -- but others on this board have used it very successfully as written)

 

You can do some searches for past threads on lit. guides and writing programs, too, for more ideas. BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

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[Libby in Texas]

Thanks. I haven't heard of some of the writing programs but will certainly look into them. This would be for an upcoming junior and senior. Dc in high school work really well independently and they've asked me for a writing program that would let them continue to do so. They're both excellent writers, seems it has come natural to them the whole way through. Would IEW allow them this? I'm hoping so as I'm looking to work part time. TIA

 

Blessings,

Libby in Texas :)

[Lori D.]

Thanks. I haven't heard of some of the writing programs but will certainly look into them. This would be for an upcoming junior and senior. Dc in high school work really well independently and they've asked me for a writing program that would let them continue to do so. They're both excellent writers, seems it has come natural to them the whole way through. Would IEW allow them this? I'm hoping so as I'm looking to work part time. TIA

 

Blessings,

Libby in Texas :)

 

 

 

JMO: but at this point it sure sounds like they don't need a writing program -- just have them writing a LOT. Weekly 5-paragraph papers. Also lots of longer papers with citations out of their history, literature, science, government or other school subjects. I'd just use the tons of free info on writing from websites as a guide (the Owl at Purdue is a great one: http://owl.english.purdue.edu/), and then pull questions either from lit. guides, or the Notgrass suggestions, or challenge your DC to come up with their own topics.

 

And practice timed essay writing from a prompt. That second suggestion has been *the one thing* that has really helped improve writing for both our DSs' (gr. 10 and 11 this year). We've done a timed essay from past SAT prompts once a week for the past 2-1/2 years. (See the last several years worth of past SAT writing prompts at the very bottom of the page at this site: http://www.onlinemathlearning.com/sat-test-prep.html). At first I just had us write for 15 minutes, 1 good paragraph (an intro, several supporting details, a conclusion) to practice thinking through your response and jotting down a keyword outline to work from. Slowly we built up the time and increased to 2-3 paragraphs. Then we required a good opening "hook" to pull you in. Next we focused on including specific, relevant details/facts/examples as support. now that we have all that in place, we're working on leaving ourselves a few minutes at the end of the 25 minute essay time to go back over the essay and make corrections in typos, punctuation, spelling, forgotten words, making it legible...

 

 

And what about considering outsourcing the writing as an online course, or perhaps the "Writing 101" class at the local community college? If you will be working part time, then your DC will have a "specialist" to give guidance and for grading. Just a thought!

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Lori D.
added info

[Libby in Texas]

Wow, thanks again Lori! (Lori D, Lori D, what would we do without thee?) Sorry, I couldn't resist! Lastly, is there anywhere for me to read or find out about the different writing styles and types of papers that a student should be able to complete before starting college? TIA

 

Sincerely,

Libby in Texas :)

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mama to 4 dc aged 17, 15, 14, and my wee one...10

[titianmom]

I'm considering Notgrass, too. Frankly they're History courses, not writing and lit courses, so I don't understand the complaint about "the lack of..."

 

Mine will be doing an essay intensive course of some type over the summer to get used to HS/College level prompts and writing essays. She can write, but she's dog slow at this point.

 

She will also be getting plenty of Lit analysis and writing opportunities in CLE's LA/Lit coursework. I've been using CLE for a few years, now. I expect mine to use what she's learning in LA to apply to her History, I don't expect History to teach writing and Lit analysis.

 

Best regards,

Kim

[Lori D.]

I'm considering Notgrass, too. Frankly they're History courses, not writing and lit courses, so I don't understand the complaint about "the lack of..."

 

Mine will be doing an essay intensive course of some type over the summer to get used to HS/College level prompts and writing essays. She can write, but she's dog slow at this point.

 

She will also be getting plenty of Lit analysis and writing opportunities in CLE's LA/Lit coursework. I've been using CLE for a few years, now. I expect mine to use what she's learning in LA to apply to her History, I don't expect History to teach writing and Lit analysis.

 

Best regards,

Kim

 

 

 

Hi Kim,

Gently, and not trying to pick a fight here :001_smile:: Just wanted to note that most likely why there are complaints about the lack of literary analysis and composition in the Notgrass history program is that on their website, Notgrass promotes their program by saying:

 

"Completing the full course provides your child with a year's high school credit in American History, English (literature and composition), and Bible... Provides a year of credit in three subject areas. Earn one year’s credit in three high school subjects: American History, English (literature and composition), and Bible."

 

From that wording, I would assume, as do most people, that the program is a 3 credit program, with 1 credit each for History, English, and Bible. And for English, especially when Notgrass adds the words "literature and composition" in parenthesis, would mean instruction in literary terms and analysis, vocabulary, comprehension and discussion questions, and writing assignments; while the composition part would mean instruction in writing, examples, assignments, etc.

 

I think that the Notgrass people probably don't quite understand what an English credit is REALLY comprised of, and just need to change the wording of their program description to more accurately reflect what all their program DOES offer, and say something like: "A full year's history program, with the bonus of a weekly Bible lesson, plus a literature reading list, schedule, comprehension questions and writing assignment topics to choose from."

 

 

Sounds like you've got some great English choices to match up with the Notgrass History! Best of luck, and ENJOY! We're thoroughly loving Notgrass' American History this year! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Libby in Texas]

I totally agree with you Lori. Notgrass' website indeed states that a student can earn 3 credits of History-Bible-Literature if they do all the recommended assignments. Obviously their high school history is a complete 3 in 1 program; however, I'm still learning about it from others who have, or already are, using the program.

 

Gaining understanding & clarity is not the same as "complaining". Geez can't anyone ask an innocent question without being labeled a "complainer"?

[titianmom]

True, ladies. Didn't mean to sound snotty or anything, ha! Sorry.

 

You're right, if they advertise it as such then it should contain everything.

 

You know, sometimes I overdo it (in just about everything).

 

If I put my child through all my fantasies of a perfect education, she won't need college....:lol:

 

FWIW, our kids will probably get more writing and analysis opportunities than most going into college. I have to keep reminding myself of that and not try to kill mine with overload before she graduates HS.

 

Just some rambling thoughts I had a second ago.

 

Take care,

 

Kim

Edited March 8, 2010 by titianmom
grammar issues

[Yolanda in Mass]

If I put my child through all my fantasies of a perfect education, she won't need college....:lol:

 

:iagree:

[Lori D.]

You know, sometimes I overdo it (in just about everything). If I put my child through all my fantasies of a perfect education, she won't need college....:lol:

 

 

 

LOL! Another overdo-er here, too! :tongue_smilie: