Daughter announces she wants to go to AFAcademy and fly planes

[titianmom]

Hi all,

 

Next year it's the 9th grade for mine. She's a bright kid who announced the other day that she wants to go to the Air Force Academy and fly planes.

 

Okay....I says to her... (?? Where did this come from, I asks?)

 

Nothing like lofty goals, no?

 

So Mom digs up all she can on the requirements for the Academy and their prep school as a poss fallback. Love the idea that college would be paid for, but I'm guessing in order to get into the Academy there would be a lot of blood, sweat and tears in payment before we actually got there...if we got there at all.

 

She might change her mind. Then again, she might not.

 

Anyway, it looks like they want a pretty heavy, AP-type load to get in academically. Not to mention the extra-curricular, leadership-demonstrating activities that you have to have...along with nominations from high powers in government and all. I'm willing to work if she is, if you catch my drift.

 

Anyone else heading for a military academy? Anyone think I'm nuts for even looking at it? :)

 

What kind of AP course options for Comp and Speech for ex? Anyone working on a strong, rigorous HS program?

 

Thanks,

Kim

[H0MEFree]

You may consider signing up for a yahoogroup elist like Military Homeschoolers or something like that. I am sure you can get help there if you don't hear here. :)

[Photo Ninja]

I suggest you find the closest Civil Air Patrol and sign her up. It will help her a lot if she participates and starts moving up through those ranks.

[titianmom]

I saw another thread when I searched using Academy. Seems there are others who are getting into the various military academies.

 

This will be very much a hard sell with mine. She's capable of anything, but the question is, is she willing to do the work nec? :glare:

 

But she's only just turned 13. Typical 13 yo. Academically she's well ahead of her peers but I know it takes more than just good grades to get in. The discipline would do her worlds of good, let's just say. :D

 

There's an air guard base near us, I believe. There are Air Force personnel there, plus others. Not sure what kind of base it is, actually, and will have to research. Also I was thinking of JROTC type stuff would be good. There's also a piloting school there and we've already done a tour while in Scouts that I arranged, so I know what the cost is for a private license will run. Sigh. But if she's serious about flying then that's also a consideration in my mind.

 

Anyone else? :)

 

Kim

[titianmom]

Seems there's a Civ Air Patrol at the base, also...found the website.

 

Kim

[tex-mex]

We have a friend whose dd at one point wanted to go to the AFA. She is now a Senior in International Bacculaureate program and doing quite well. She is now is looking at LeTourneau University in TX as they offer a good military aviation program. I would get her flying as soon as possible.

[titianmom]

Yes, we understand that getting a private license is a necessity no matter which direction she goes, if she wants to fly for a living.

 

And we've heard from an assoc at my husband's work that you don't nec have to go into the academy if all you want to do is fly, and the Academy isn't the best route *if* you only want to fly. Apparently the Academies take the best GPA grads and let them pick the jobs first, so unless you're ace-ing everything and get a very high GPA (no matter what field), you will end up prob assigned somewhere else besides flight school.

 

The assoc is an ex-Navy fighter pilot. He got his private license and degree first (math for him) and then went to a recruiter's office and got a guaranteed career agreement from them up front. Then he went to Basic (reg officer training school), then to flight school. Never went to the Naval Academy.

 

So there are many ways to skin this one. And I think she actually wants a civilian job in the end. So we'll see; I still am interested in the Civ Air, for example; seems it would be a good experience for her if it's a good squadron that does a lot of leadership/community projects.

 

Thanks again,

Kim

[Kathleen in VA]

I suggest you find the closest Civil Air Patrol and sign her up. It will help her a lot if she participates and starts moving up through those ranks.

 

:iagree: If she earns the Spaatz Award (the highest cadet award) she would be eligible for a scholarship towards earning her pilot's license. It's kind of complicated so here's the link that explains the scholarship. It's not actually a CAP scholarship - it's award by the Spaatz Association. Anyway, every little bit helps, you know?

 

http://www.tankerbob.com/scholar.htm

[laughing lioness]

I would spend more time talking with her about the what and why of what she is thinking. Does she WANT to go to the academy or does she want to fly or both?

The Academies are looking for certain types of people that are competitive, somewhat narcissistic and driven. You'll need AMAZING refs (incl one from your state govenor), sports, excellent grades, a rigorous academic transcript and other extra curricluars. CAPS invovlement would be a good thing.

The A.F. is all about creativity and leadership. Within that, they breed a certain amount of narcissism (which makes sense if you are spending millions of dollars to train 1 person to go into a war zone - of course they'll think they're special- they are). A caution, however, is that that narcissism tends to filtrate into other aspects of a persons life.

My dh was a psych in the A.F and stationed on an F-16 base. He is adamently opposed to any of our kids going to an Academy, though he would LOVE it if any of our kids joined/flew or served.

Please don't take this as a slam of the A.F. Academy or pilots or A.F. familes- it's NOT. My point is that there are many ways to fly for the A.F. without going to the Academy and there might be aspects of that type of Academy training that are not compatible with living a well-balanced and happy life. OTOH, maybe she is a competitive person that would thrive in that environment. I would just weigh lots of options and research different avenues, pros & cons, etc.

[KnitWit]

It is my understanding that acceptance into the AFA requires an *appointment* from your elected official. We know a few kids who've gone, and a few who've *not* based on the lack of appointment.

[titianmom]

Yep, I'm fully aware that Academies produce what I call "hot dogs" :) Live, breathe, sleep greatness.

 

And we've had the talk a couple of times. I honestly believe that she simply wants to fly for a living. She does want to go into the AF for a few years then get out and fly, so we're considering all options at this point.

 

I love Academies because I'm cheap and don't want to pay for college if I can find a way out of it. Just kidding; there is an appeal to getting a decent education for a few years' commitment to Uncle Sam. (Nothing is actually free, BTW.)

 

My husband and I were in the Air Force. I was in Intelligence (won't go further) and my husband was a linguist. His regret was not staying in and becoming an instructor like they tried to convince him to do. We have fond memories of the service.

 

The CAP may be good for her regardless of what she ends up doing, so we're checking it out.

 

Thanks, all!

Kim

[Sebastian (a lady)]

You don't need to know how to fly to get into USAFA (if the Air Force wants her as a pilot, they will be ready to spend tens of thousands of dollars on her training). Nor do you HAVE to have been involved with JROTC or CAP. Although each of these activities might be an example of a candidate's drive, self-motivation and leadership.

 

I'm an admissions liaison for the Naval Academy (USNA) and I've written great interview write ups for candidates who were not involved in any high school military group at all. I've also written non-recommended write ups for candidates who were in JROTC and in scouting but who didn't demonstrate consistent leadership or drive.

 

Test scores are important. Keep in mind that service academies are not trying to fill quotas; they are selecting from a pool of highly qualified candidates. Last year, there were over 15,000 applications for about 1,250 slots at USNA. The other service academies have similar figures. The reason that test scores are important is the the initial screening for things like summer seminar is based on test scores, class rank and grades. Homeschoolers don't have class rank and grades (typically) so you need to have some test scores that will make you competitive.

 

AP classes are nice. But there are students from public high schools who have limited access to these too. What will be important is what a student did with the opportunities that they did have. So did the student take the AP exams when able to? Great. Did they dual enroll in community college? Or did they take the most rigorous coursework they could at home, while also having significant and ongoing volunteer or group leadership responsibilities?

 

At an interview, I'm not interested in hearing about how a homeschooler isn't allowed to participate in this or that varsity team sport. But I'd love to hear about how they joined a running club or developed a personal weight training routine. One of my favorite candidates was a cyclist and triathelete who told me about swimming the Ironman in the juniors brackets and riding the Race to the Sun up Haleakela (we were in Hawaii at the time). Far more interesting and telling than hearing about a varsity athlete who can't tell me about anything that he's learned from his sports participation.

 

Instead of spending time and money on flight lessons, let her spend time on solid and rigorous academics, physical (sports or personal training) and leadership (can have all sorts of forms from CAP/JROTC/Sea Cadets/Scouts/Venturing to church groups to planning a school play).

 

There are several threads here about military academies. I've written on several and Margaret in CO had written a lot (her dd is about to graduate from USNA).

 

Finally, this is the time to start getting your dd doing the legwork on this. I can tell when applying is the candidate's idea and when the parents are doing to work. But the parents can't be there at 530 am to wake the kid up and get him ready for pt and getting yelled at. Nor will they be there when there are four different class assignments and professional knowledge to master with a parade practice taking up most of the afternoon. It has to come from the cadet/midshipman. The application process is when and where this student ownership should start.

 

BTW, I'm not trying to say that flying lessons are a bad idea. But given the choice between a solid leader with good academics who doesn't fly and someone with a pilots license who can't tell me about leadership lessons or who has weak academics, they flying background won't matter. Even in rather equal students it may or may not be the thing that tips the scales.

 

I hope I didn't come off as too negative. I've finished up my interviews for this cycle and there were a couple of clunkers who just didn't seem to appreciate what they were contemplating. I hope your dd does great. I chose USNA in 8th grade and it was a driving factor for me through high school.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Academies (except Coast Guard) require a Nomination. Sources include senators, congressional representatives, the President and the Vice-President. You don't have to be "connected" to get a nomination.

 

The nomination is separate from being considered by the academy itself. Sometimes the nomination comes in first. Other times, the academy admissions board will make a provisional offer to a qualified candidate, but you still have to also have a nomination. I describe it to candidates as a parallel track that comes together at the end.

 

You don't have to go to an academy to fly. Or even join the military for that matter. It is well worth thinking about what in the military is enticing, not just thinking about the good education that an academy offers. (An academy education isn't really "free." You pay with a service committment and lots of hard work.)

 

I had a longer comment before my computer ate it. I will simply say that branding the products of academies as narcissists strikes me as overly judgemental. They are highly qualified, very competitive and have done a lot of hard stuff by the time the graduate. In 20+ years of being around the military, I haven't found that there is a service that corners the market on arrogance or graciousness, loyalty or egotism.

[TravelingChris]

I assume she has no allergies or any other medical issues? For flying, you need perfect health. My dh was told when he was entering the AF as an officer candidate that unfortunately he wouldn't be able to fly since he has a very minor color blindness (he has some slight issues with blue green blindness but only to the extent that he can't accurately distinguish something like teal from turquoise if they have the same darkness level). He thought that was funny since he is a physicist and had absolutely no desire whatsoever to be a pilot which he considers to be an aerial bus driver and just about as interesting. (No, I know F16 pilots aren't that but he was looking into the future when retired pilots normally fly airline planes).

[titianmom]

I had a longer comment before my computer ate it. I will simply say that branding the products of academies as narcissists strikes me as overly judgemental. They are highly qualified, very competitive and have done a lot of hard stuff by the time the graduate. In 20+ years of being around the military, I haven't found that there is a service that corners the market on arrogance or graciousness, loyalty or egotism.

 

I actually admire the grads who make it and would love to see my daughter graduate a military academy. :001_smile:

 

I think there's a fine line between being proud of what you've accomplished and taking it too far and looking down on the rest of civilization because others haven't achieved what you have achieved. I've met some very bright, highly successful people who are the most humble and selfless people I know. I'm sure that most of the grads will turn out just like that in the end.

 

When I say "hot dogs" I'm thinking of young guys and gals who are ready to take on the world and, outside of the Academy, don't have a clue as to what real life is like. Life has a way of seasoning all of us, and I agree that Academy grads are no different than the rest of us when we're young and starting out in life.

 

Kim

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

My DH fell in love with flying at age 7. He went to college first, then pilot training with the USAF.

The majority of pilots did not go to an academy, although graduating from an academy is indeed something to be very proud of.

 

My eldest son is counting down until he is 12 and can join the Civil Air Patrol (2 more years to go!).

 

You may want to contact your county airport. Every year (maybe twice a year) the Young Eagles program sponsors events at small airports in which kids can learn about flying, talk to private pilots, and take a "first flight" for free. My son has done this twice. Last year the pilot let him fly (he held the stick) and they circled above our house.

Edited March 9, 2010 by MeanestMomInMidwest

[Mrs.MacGyver]

Probably not what she is looking for, but another "flying" opportunity is the High-School to Flight school program for the Army. It's helicopters, not fixed-wing ... Warrant Officer, not Regular Officer, but we have known many, many young people come straight out of high school, graduate and fly helicopters, earn their degree while they are in using Tuition Assistance, and then get out of the military and use their GI Bill towards fixed wing certifications. Plus, quite a few guys (and girls) go on to the Army's fixed wing program as well. I have heard rumors that the Navy was going to offer a similar program, but I am not sure about that one.

 

And, along the same lines as some of the other posters... the people we know who came out of West Point and are pilots now, tell me that it is tough to go that route if all you want to do is fly. They would recommend the Warrant Program in that case (and we have known quite a few O-2/O-3s who have crossed over to the Warrant side so that they can continue to fly throughout their career).

 

Anyway, just a little extra info, but you sound like you are doing all the right things! Good luck to her!

[KnitWit]

Academies (except Coast Guard) require a Nomination. Sources include senators, congressional representatives, the President and the Vice-President. You don't have to be "connected" to get a nomination.

 

The nomination is separate from being considered by the academy itself. Sometimes the nomination comes in first. Other times, the academy admissions board will make a provisional offer to a qualified candidate, but you still have to also have a nomination. I describe it to candidates as a parallel track that comes together at the end.

 

You don't have to go to an academy to fly. Or even join the military for that matter. It is well worth thinking about what in the military is enticing, not just thinking about the good education that an academy offers. (An academy education isn't really "free." You pay with a service committment and lots of hard work.)

 

I had a longer comment before my computer ate it. I will simply say that branding the products of academies as narcissists strikes me as overly judgemental. They are highly qualified, very competitive and have done a lot of hard stuff by the time the graduate. In 20+ years of being around the military, I haven't found that there is a service that corners the market on arrogance or graciousness, loyalty or egotism.

 

:blushing: Thank you Sebastian! I could NOT think of the right word to save my life! LOL!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

:blushing: Thank you Sebastian! I could NOT think of the right word to save my life! LOL!

 

Don't worry about it. You had the general idea. The big thing to remember is that students don't have to be connected to the office holder. In fact, lots of times the nomination application is managed by a staffer. Often the office holder doesn't meet the students until the nomination process is pretty much done.

 

You can find the nomination application requirements on each senator/representative website under constituent services. Watch for deadlines (they are typically Oct/Nov) and for slightly different requirements from each office.

 

If you're in a large metro area, you might ask your congressional office if they do a service academy info day. They are often in the spring. There may be reps from various service academies, key staffers from the congressional offers, and cadets or mids there.

 

The Air Force Academy typically uses reservists who are admissions liaisons as their reserve job. Navy uses a system of volunteers (alumni, reservists, parents, teachers).

 

And don't forget that both Navy and Marine Corps also have outstanding aviation opportunities.

[KnitWit]

Don't worry about it. You had the general idea. The big thing to remember is that students don't have to be connected to the office holder. In fact, lots of times the nomination application is managed by a staffer. Often the office holder doesn't meet the students until the nomination process is pretty much done.

 

 

I think this is IMPORTANT to know because, sadly, I can think of two families who found out about this and took another path because they DID assume there should have been a relationship and felt it too late to pursue.

 

I don't know why they didn't ask some questions.

[kate in seattle]

ooh, something I know something about - my son is a doolie (freshman, 4dig) at the Air force Academy.

 

and please, feel free, to PM me if you have more questions.

 

Academy admittance is based on several things

- a nomination from your MOC (Member of congress - either a representative or a senator). Get the applications from all possible - 2 senators and 1 representative. Alex only had one nomination and got in, but i have heard that increased number of nominations = increased liklihood of offer of appointment.

 

- grades. just like any other competetive college they do want to see good grades. and for homeschoolers they like to see outside verification. alex homeschooled three years of high school and then did 2 years of a dual enrollment program. that made him a little older than most appointees, but i think that extra age stands them in good stead when going through the rigors/trauma of BCT and the 4dig year.

 

-athletics. WA is a state where it is easy to do as much or as little with the public schools as you would like. Alex participated in the swim team for four years (jr. captain and sr. captain), and cross country for two or three (also jr. captain and sr. captain). He had six varsity letters. And of course, you have to pass the DoDMeRB and the CFA (Candidate Fitness Aptitude test). You will also learn to talk in acronyms.

 

-leadership. For Alex this was Eagle Scout, Senior Patrol Leader, Speaker of the House in Youth & Government and team captainships in sports. Pick one or two things she likes and stay with them. Scouts and CAP and JROTC are all very popular with those given appointments. But 4H and other programs also work.

 

She has to want to go because she wants to serve, and be ready to die for the country. I don't want to sound extreme, but that is what we are asking these kids to commit to. To be a pilot from the Academy is a 15 year committment - 4 years at the Academy, 1-2 years in pilot school (flying a Cessna does not prepare you for flying a F-22) 8 years of active duty and 2 years of reserves. If Alex is successful in his career path, it means I sent him off at 19 and he is not totally free until he is 35.

 

Getting a pilot slot - if you are in the top half of the class (not JUST GPA, but also your PEA (phys ed grade average) and MPA (military performance average)) AND you want to be a pilot, you will probably get a pilot slot. As you work through UPT (Undergraduate Pilot Training) your abilities and desires determine what type of aircraft you will be flying.

 

The letter that came with Alex's OA (offer of appointement) stated that a

USAFA education is valued at $400,000. It's a great deal financially, but it is not free (they are paying with their 15 year committment, among other things).

 

It is exactly right for Alex, not that I am not on tenterhooks everytime grades come out, but for now, he is successful.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

- a nomination from your MOC (Member of congress - either a representative or a senator). Get the applications from all possible - 2 senators and 1 representative. Alex only had one nomination and got in, but i have heard that increased number of nominations = increased liklihood of offer of appointment.

 

 

There are a couple of reasons why candidates are advised to request a nomination from every source they are eligible for.

 

1 - They won't know which nominations they are awarded until well after the deadlines for the other offices are closed. So if they only ask for one and don't get it, they don't have time to go back and request a nomination from the other sources.

 

2 - Different offices have different levels of competition for nomination. Remember that a senator will be getting requests from the entire state, while a representative is getting it from just one district. But some of those districts are very competitive because the military is high profile or they have high achieving schools.

 

3 - There are different ways that the nominators can designate their nominations. Some bind the academies to offer appointments in a certain order (if the candidate is qualified). Other designations give the academy more leeway to choose the highest qualified candidate off the slate first. So having multiple nominations can help here.

 

So yes, a candidate should apply to both senators and the representative. He should also apply to the president if he meets the qualifications. He can also apply for a vice presidential nomination, although these are harder to get and are mostly encouraged for students who live overseas and who don't have an established residence in the US (ex. expats or diplomats serving overseas).

Naval Academy nomination info

Info for homeschoolers

 

The number of nominations doesn't change the likelihood of an appointment offer. But a conditional offer of appointment is only good if the candidate also has a nomination.

 

Also academy admissions run on a slightly earlier schedule than other colleges. I had some candidates who had complete applications in the fall. Several are already getting offers of appointment or offers to the prep school.

 

I wanted to add that the books about the academy application process from this company are pretty well done. I would probably only buy one, not one for each school, since the process is so similar.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Sebastian (a lady)

[Rhonda in TX]

The Academies are looking for certain types of people that are competitive, somewhat narcissistic and driven.

 

This exactly describes a friend of mine from high school who got into the Air Force Academy. :lol:

[titianmom]

For the great information shared.

 

My daughter is pretty set on the flying but not so set on the Academy, and we have counseled her that this is a long commitment and they're looking for military leaders, so now she's looking into other ways to become a pilot. Maybe even becoming a bush pilot for missionary work or something like that. (Altho I can see how being ex-military and a leader would help in that area - flying missionaries into remote areas, for ex - I don't think she wants to spend 15 years getting there, nec.)

 

So time will tell. We're still looking at the CAP program in the area; I think it would be a good experience for her.

 

This has been an informative thread that maybe others can benefit from. I know there's another thread similar to this and between the two, parents and students can make an intelligent decision about a future in the academies/military.

 

Kim

[Storm Bay]

I can't help with military academy, but I do have a friend who became a pilot in her mid-late 30s as a civilian, and even that took a lot of blood, sweat and tears. Not just because it cost $100k to do that, but because she was a woman in a field of mainly men who expected her to fail. She was one of only a small percentage who passed her big flight test on the first try. It's not easy to become a pilot of jets (she used to fly a Boeng 737--planes like 747s are flown by pilots who have logged a lot of years because they are so popular).

 

In the end, she found she didn't like piloting for commercial airlines (she'd been a flight attendant for years, so knew what the business in general was like prior to flight school) and now does search and rescue, and sometimes disaster survellance flying instead. She likes that much better and it keeps her flight hours up enough to keep her licence.

[Shelly in IL]

He went to a regular college, but did Officer's Candidate School for 2 summers. AFter college graduation, he went to the Basic School for Marines - he had a flight billet at this time.

 

It is a very rigorous selection process - even after you make it into the pilot program. Like a big funnel, only sending out a few from the small end of the funnel. You have to consistently rate well, and may wash out at any time. (ie, we have friends wash out that could not get over flight sickness, some with poorer grades).

 

That being said, there is nothing like the pilot community. We had/have a wonderful friend network. I"m sure the qualifications/requirements have changed, but I wanted to let you know that you don't have to go to an Academy to make it in the aviation world.